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OfflineNiamhNyx
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trichocereus macrogonus?
    #7441128 - 09/22/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Does anyone know anything about this cactus? A local shop sells it dried, but they have very little information about it. Erowid seems to have little info as well. Does anyone grow/use this cactus? How does it compare with other trichs?


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7441370 - 09/22/07 06:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Last time I played with supposed dried T. macrogonus (same source maybe?) it was totally worthless. Lots of other alkaloids but no M at all. Wasted lots of money and effort.


FH


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: felixhigh]
    #7441453 - 09/22/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

T. Macrogonus = T. Peruvianus

They're one and the same, although many people see a spikey tricho and for some reason just randomly slap one of those two labels on them. Vendors included. So be skeptical with vendors selling Macrogonus.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: plainswalker]
    #7441700 - 09/22/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plainswalker said:
T. Macrogonus = T. Peruvianus




lol where did you get that idea?

not true at all by the way.

hope you didn't tell anyone else that.

macrog's are more of a multi-spinular cacti with less indentation on the areoles and more general girth than most trichocereus genus.
I have not seen a macrog that looked even somewhat similar to a peruvianus.
they are usually quite potent if they are indeed macrogs. sometimes peruv/cuzco hybrids get confused as macrogs, but the real deals look different


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Offlineroyer
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7441709 - 09/22/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CptnGarden said:
Quote:

plainswalker said:
T. Macrogonus = T. Peruvianus




lol where did you get that idea?

not true at all by the way.

hope you didn't tell anyone else that.

macrog's are more of a multi-spinular cacti with less indentation on the areoles and more general girth than most trichocereus genus.
I have not seen a macrog that looked even somewhat similar to a peruvianus.
they are usually quite potent if they are indeed macrogs. sometimes peruv/cuzco hybrids get confused as macrogs, but the real deals look different




yep


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: plainswalker]
    #7441716 - 09/22/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I thought it was wierd, especially since the girl working there didn't really know anything about it and just gave me this little sheet of paper with, like, 2 sentences on it. It listed alkaloid content but it didn't get into much detail. It did, however, claim 50% mescaline content... She told me to check erowid but all they have is a couple photos. It annoys me when people who work at entheogen stores know nothing about thier products! Is this a waste of money then? Any second opinions?



Edited by NiamhNyx (09/22/07 08:37 PM)


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7441727 - 09/22/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It did, however, claim 50% mescaline content...




:rofl2:
that must be the legendary cactus teo has been searching for!


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7441748 - 09/22/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plainswalker - are t. macrogonus and t. peruvianus actually the exact same thing, or do people just mislabel one or the other, as they look similar?




they are not the same plant.
dont trust vendor identifications, a huge percentage of cacti sold are sold under the wrong description.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7441749 - 09/22/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i think i meant to say multi-columnar? :shrug:

too much wine :shrug :shrug :shrug: shrug:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7441750 - 09/22/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

lol, it certainly sounded fishy...:smirk: It's pretty annoying that this is a primary source of entheogens (and information regarding them) in this city... I should really call them out on this kind of crap. I'm pretty sure they just copied and pasted some schlock from the internet. They make the 50% mescaline claim about bridgesii as well.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7441844 - 09/22/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

uarewotueat said:
Quote:

It did, however, claim 50% mescaline content...




:rofl2:
that must be the legendary cactus teo has been searching for!



  yep I told him it was a mac too :rockon:


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Offlineshruman
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: cpw1971]
    #7441949 - 09/22/07 09:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

mac does contain 50% M of the total alkakaloids, from memory it is 50mg per 100g alkaloids fresh. I guess thats what she was reffering to.

There is some conjecture as to what a macrogonus is.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: shruman]
    #7441999 - 09/22/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I guess it makes sense if it is 50% of the alkaloids, rather than 50% of the cactus...


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7442898 - 09/23/07 04:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yep, but its all worded wrong as with many vendor descriptions... gives the wrong impression...


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7443220 - 09/23/07 08:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Show me a pic of what you believe is a textbook macro and a textbook peruvian. Kinda hard to have a discussion on this if I don't know what you think each one's phenotype is.

I am beginning to discount all green spikey trichs as being peruvians. Maybe they are T. cuzcoensis, maybe T. cuzcoensis crossed with Pachanoi or Peruvianus (probably this hypothesis, hybridization seems all over the board in Trichocereus), or maybe they deserve a name of there own. What would I call a Peruvianus? The fat and blue tricho of lore (sounds a bit silly). Macrogonus? The same. I believe the name Macrogonus predates the name Peruvianus so technically it should be called Macrogonus. I would like to direct you towards some articles by MS Smith, I believe he makes a strong argument that the two cacti are one and the same. He has made several, but here is a good one to start you off (Got to be a member of The Nook to read).

Also remember that the physical characteristics of trichos (even with identical DNA) can vary quite a bit with their individual growing conditions, making the subject of Trich identification that much more difficult. Add to that the vast differences between the different trichs growing together in South America, and hybridization occuring naturally and with the help of man. What is generally held to be T. peruvianus in these circles could easily be just a hybrid that was taken back to the states long ago and mass produced. Definetely something to ponder.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: plainswalker]
    #7443264 - 09/23/07 08:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

any cacti that gives a good trip from 15 grams of dried green inner flesh is ok in my book no matter what it is called :thumbup:

  I dont know if the Macs will do that or the Cuzco's
  anyone tried them???
  the Icaros DNA peruvianus works like a charm every time :rockon:


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: trichocereus macrogonus? [Re: plainswalker]
    #7443267 - 09/23/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Show me a pic of what you believe is a textbook macro and a textbook peruvian. Kinda hard to have a discussion on this if I don't know what you think each one's phenotype is.

I am beginning to discount all green spikey trichs as being peruvians. Maybe they are T. cuzcoensis, maybe T. cuzcoensis crossed with Pachanoi or Peruvianus (probably this hypothesis, hybridization seems all over the board in Trichocereus), or maybe they deserve a name of there own. What would I call a Peruvianus? The fat and blue tricho of lore (sounds a bit silly). Macrogonus? The same. I believe the name Macrogonus predates the name Peruvianus so technically it should be called Macrogonus. I would like to direct you towards some articles by MS Smith, I believe he makes a strong argument that the two cacti are one and the same. He has made several, but here is a good one to start you off (Got to be a member of The Nook to read).

Also remember that the physical characteristics of trichos (even with identical DNA) can vary quite a bit with their individual growing conditions, making the subject of Trich identification that much more difficult. Add to that the vast differences between the different trichs growing together in South America, and hybridization occuring naturally and with the help of man. What is generally held to be T. peruvianus in these circles could easily be just a hybrid that was taken back to the states long ago and mass produced. Definetely something to ponder.





well put... no one really knows for sure, not even the highly knowledgable M S Smith.

categorising trichocereus into groups, pachanoid, peruvanoid, macronoid, etc... is the way to go,
rather then giving them an exact species name.

doesnt count for all, as some plants are pretty easy to identify...
(the backberg clone of "pachanoi" is the classic example)


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Edited by uarewotueat (09/23/07 08:47 AM)


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