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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Hows' this lighting set-up
    #7438627 - 09/21/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hey all I have been reading all around on which lighting set-up is better for growing pot. I have researched all kind of set-ups. HPS, MH, Fluorescent, CFL. So for mine, which I only have two plants right now, I decided to go with two four foot tubes of Fluorescent. One is a "natural sunshine" and the other is "plant/aquarium"https://files.shroomery.org/files/07-38/043456774-DSCN0567.jpg]6769-DSCN0565.jpg][/image]


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Offlinejoef5
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7438720 - 09/21/07 10:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I hate fluorescents, they work, but they suck. Get a metal halide for veggin and add hps to bud.

joe


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: joef5]
    #7438735 - 09/21/07 10:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yea man whats your freedom worth.
You really wont regret doing things right the first time. for 200 bucks you could have a 400+ HPS and a decent fan.


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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Legoulash]
    #7438778 - 09/21/07 11:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What would it really be worth to have a 400 watt HPS light if I only plan to have at max 4 plant up to one time. In a small closet too.

Also could the previous poster elaborate on why CFL or Florescent lights suck?


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7438816 - 09/21/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Because the light doesnt penetrate threw the canopy, so youll just get small pidley buds. HPS is far more intense of a light, and has been a tried and true method of growing premos for many years now.

Floros are only good for clones and seedlings. Even then most growers would prefer HPS.
It also wouldnt matter how many plants you have, it would depend on the grow rooms size. Plants can be single cola clones or 12' trees, you want around 50w per sq. foot.


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Offlinejoef5
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7438829 - 09/21/07 11:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think it has something to do with the wavelength of the light fluorescent light isn't much better than an incandescent bulb hid lamps are closer to natural sunlight.
You provably wont need 400 wats for a small closet. And the lights are much cheaper if you just buy a ballast and a ceramic lamp base and wire them yourself you could save about $100. Plus then you don't have to have the ballast in the closet since they can throw off some heat.

joe


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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7439180 - 09/22/07 02:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Just get a 400w HID and be done with it. Anything else is kids toys.


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: FecalDildo]
    #7439220 - 09/22/07 03:22 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FecalDildo said:
Just get a 400w HID and be done with it. Anything else is kids toys.



QFT
also: this should be in the garden.
I'll move it.


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7439704 - 09/22/07 08:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hows' this lighting set-up




in all honesty, pretty shit :grin:
do it properly or dont bother taking the risk...


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OfflineBlehMaestro
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7440081 - 09/22/07 11:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Not good at all...looks like a fire hazard to me.


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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: BlehMaestro]
    #7440134 - 09/22/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Foremost: it's not going to produce any real amount of smokable weed.


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OfflineIts Pat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Legoulash]
    #7440573 - 09/22/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

So you are saying that with a 400 watt HID you shouldn't trying to cover more than 8 square feet of growing space? Also can't you go down to 40 watts per square feet and still get good yields. That would increase the growing space to 10 square feet. Probably depends on the strain being grown too.


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Its Pat]
    #7443821 - 09/23/07 11:29 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

50w per. Sq foot it the peak performance for lighting, anymore and its generally a waste. and yes if your growing trees your going to be happier having more light, if its little bushes you can get by with less.


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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Legoulash]
    #7446692 - 09/24/07 06:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ok I saw a 70w HPS light at the home depot for about $80.00. Would this be good for much. could this be a good replacement for 2 four foot flouro tubes and two compact flouro reflector (par 38 style). I have two different CF reflectors. I like experimenting but for now I just want results.


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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7447277 - 09/24/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

70W HPS gives off to much heat in comparison to light. You need at least 200W if you're going with HPS(preferably 400)


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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7450601 - 09/25/07 05:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I guess the more I read around everyone swears by the 400W HPS light set-up. I will do a little, nay, a lot more reading upon this subject. How would trying to take up hydroponics for hobby?


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Legoulash]
    #7452224 - 09/25/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

hasnt it been proven that the 'canopy penetration' argument for HID's is baloney? And if canopy penetration is really the concern, aren't 4' floro's better, because you can place them vertically so the entire plant is lit front base to tip? (thus completely penetrating all canopy layers)

~JSlice~


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452316 - 09/25/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No it has been proven that it is not baloney. I've seen several charts and measurements showing that HPS penetrates the canopy much better than floros.
Also I've seen several grow-logs where good HPS systems have been compared to good floro systems. Floros aren't as easy or as good. You can get great results from floros if you're skilled and have a lot of time to take care of your plants. With HPS you can get great results if you're a mediocre(beginner) and with not to much of an effort.


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7452324 - 09/25/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

To further make this very clear: I've seen one growlog where floros where used and the yields/m2 where about the same as a good HPS grow. I've seen over hundred(I'm not kidding) of growlogs where HPS have given good or great yields.


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7452412 - 09/25/07 04:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

ok but can i just touch on canopy penetration again?

canopy penetration is the difference in light intensity at the base of the plant versus the top of the plant.

so if half the light of your HID gets through you have 50% pen.

but if i put a few vertical flouros, the light at the bottom is equal to the light at the top. 100% canopy penetration. AND the only concern becomes penetration from outside to in, which is not a problem because of the structure of the plant right?

im not saying flouros are better, im just wondering if the reason people use HID lights, is because people use HID lights.

show me science!

and also please if your going to talk about watts/lumen, be sure to include the wattage it takes to cool a HID light setup in your math.

~JSlice~


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Edited by angryjslice (09/25/07 04:15 PM)


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452440 - 09/25/07 04:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

people use hps/hid cos its a proven method... if flouros were better we would be using them. :rolleyes:


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7452467 - 09/25/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

well, i guess there is something to be said for a proven method. Maybe some experiments are in order.

How many lumens are you guys running at in a typical HID setup....lets say per plant instead of per area?

~JSlice~


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452476 - 09/25/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

vertical floros will give horizontal photons which in turn will give little to no photosynthesis.


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452478 - 09/25/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

angryjslice said:
show me science!






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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452481 - 09/25/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

well, i guess there is something to be said for a proven method. Maybe some experiments are in order.




the experiments HAVE been done, that is what "proven method" means...


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452484 - 09/25/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

As I said a shit-load of growers have tried both.
Floros are not as good.
There is a lot of science.
I will not break my back trying to gather it for you.
If you cant take our word for it browse the multitude of ganja forums and look through the grow-logs.


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Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7452488 - 09/25/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

uarewotueat said:
Quote:

well, i guess there is something to be said for a proven method. Maybe some experiments are in order.




the experiments HAVE been done, that is what "proven method" means...



QFT


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7452506 - 09/25/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

lol, science indeed sir. LowRyder?

in all reality, i think the reason people REALLY continually go with HID setups is because they can have a very small amount of total lamps (like 1 400W HPS instead of 10 to 15 CFLS or 20 or more flouros).


oh and nalim...i think instead of "horizontal photons" you mean that less light hits the leaves.

we as a community really should strive to understand why we do things.

~JSlice~


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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452527 - 09/25/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

oh and nalim...i think instead of "horizontal photons" you mean that less light hits the leaves.



:wtf:
horizontal photon current --> less hits/worse angle(bigger loss through bad penetration through the individual leaf, longer distance from impact to photosystem 2)
I just assumed that was inductively obvious.

Quote:

in all reality, i think the reason people REALLY continually go with HID setups is because they can have a very small amount of total lamps (like 1 400W HPS instead of 10 to 15 CFLS or 20 or more flouros).



How many times do you need to hear it: NO!
It has been tried.
Wattage aginst wattage.
Lumen against lumen.
HPS wins.
Read up.


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Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452539 - 09/25/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lol, science indeed sir. LowRyder?




fuck lowryder... thats a propper indica trained how i want...
u havent ever grown weed indoors have u jslice?


Quote:

in all reality, i think the reason people REALLY continually go with HID setups is because they can have a very small amount of total lamps (like 1 400W HPS instead of 10 to 15 CFLS or 20 or more flouros).




u make a good point about number of lights...
quite simply: who the hell wants a billion CFL's with a billion wires all over the place... if anything its a damn fire hazard and a pain in the ass...


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7452545 - 09/25/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
As I said a shit-load of growers have tried both.
Floros are not as good.
There is a lot of science.
I will not break my back trying to gather it for you.
If you cant take our word for it browse the multitude of ganja forums and look through the grow-logs.




sorry, I actually was trying to find references that are not based on what people have experienced growing pot in there basement/closet. I guess looking for academic articles was the wrong direction to go in.

I was also browsing non-drug gardening forums (gardenweb) and have found there are alot of contradictory statements on the internet (drug and non-drug sites) when it comes to grow lights.

i dont grow pot, i have 2 cherry tomatoes, and 2 cilantro, and i have 1 46 watt CFL (2700 lumens). I have no problems at all. This is why i ask so many questions.

~JSlice~


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7452549 - 09/25/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Oh thats what he meant:rofl:
I totally missed that.
If that had been a lowryder you'd been my ganja god forreal(not just a demi-god).


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7452563 - 09/25/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

if lowryder produced like that, id have been growing it all along :lol:


Quote:

and have found there are alot of contradictory statements on the internet




the internet is contradictory by nature.


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7452572 - 09/25/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

indeed.

thanks for indulging my curiosity (which is far from satiated).

on the note of whether or not things work how people say...im off to build my ultrasonic fog cloner. :wink:

~JSlice~


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: angryjslice]
    #7452587 - 09/25/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ultrasonic fog cloners are good from what I hear.
If you're interested in comparing cfls floros and hps you could check out some logs on here:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65535
a lot of good info there too.


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Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Re: Hows' this lighting set-up [Re: Nalim]
    #7463250 - 09/28/07 06:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well just to clear up I'm gonna continue with my original set-up as shown on this grow. Two 4 foot fluorescent tubes (one is "Natural Sunshine" and the other is "Plant/Aquarium". And two CFL's. One is the GE Genura. And the other is the TCP 23 Par 38 style reflector. And I may not have had the pictures taken well, but the setup is not a fire hazard. I have everything grounded and properly routed and terminated. So if anything I will use this as a base experiment for growing under fluorescent lights. I am very interested for my next time I grow(if I do) to get a HPS set-up. Does the ballast from these HID lights (in particular the illustrious 400W HPS) give off a significant amount of heat. Since I am in a closet and rent I cannot make any permanent alterations to the room (ie a hole in the ceiling fo exhaust). Just a door opening once in a while is all I can afford. Thanks for everyones input so far.


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