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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
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Was Leary a quack?
#7437440 - 09/21/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm really having a hard time on deciding if he was crazy, or if he did the right thing. On one hand, he pretty much single handedly made LSD available to the world and henceforth, illegal. On the other hand, he was fighting the oppressors who ruin everyone's fun in the first place.
Opinions, I can't decide if I should respect him or not.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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Taco Chef
I found dead John Cheever



Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 33,222
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437497 - 09/21/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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in what categories are you speaking? his work on interpersonal therapy, and the Leary personality grid are still highly respected in the field.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437514 - 09/21/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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He did the right thing and we owe a lot to him. LSD would have ended up illegal no matter what.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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2859558484
Growery is Better



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I dont have much respect for him, He handled a lot of things wrong imo. While he was at harvard he had some good things going.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: 2859558484]
#7437574 - 09/21/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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He used bad science for his tests, but on the other hand he led a generation of people. I personally think LSD never had a chance to begin with because of how unpredictable it can be, so he did the right thing.
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: fapjack]
#7437610 - 09/21/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Should we continue to follow his teachings then?
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437659 - 09/21/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dont respect him at all. Im not against him or anything, Im just not impressed.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437713 - 09/21/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapwn said: Should we continue to follow his teachings then?
no. teach yourself about acid
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: 2859558484]
#7437720 - 09/21/07 06:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was talking more about the Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out doctrine.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437741 - 09/21/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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he disregarded the dangers of lsd and gave it to children. he was a potential murderer. i'd say he was a loon with the right idea but he acted like a damn n00b.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



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leary diddnt really teach that much. he was an educator, not a student of enlightonment. he thought his ideas and experience could transfer to everyone else and transfor socioty....so yeah, he was a quack in some sence. more just an ego driven lost prophet.
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LucidDream
Hungry BlueFiend



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437917 - 09/21/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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It was always about Leary. He didn't promote acid: he used acid as a vehicle to promote himself. I think he accomplished a lot and was a worthwhile person, but his ego was far too strong and prevented him from doing more.
If I'd ever had to deal with him, I'm pretty sure I'd have had to tell him to fuck off at some point. I despise egotists. But I also like and admire him. He could be very charming and interesting, when he felt it in his interest to be so.
Here's a great Leary clip where he gets into it with Art Linketter (who is an arch-conservative scumbag) :
-------------------- Sarcasm just one of my many talents.
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Taco Chef
I found dead John Cheever



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seems like a lot of preconceived misinformation going on in this thread
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Gumby
Fishnologist



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7437977 - 09/21/07 07:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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He did a lot for psychedelic research, but I think he was really a crackpot.
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zorbman
blarrr



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: LucidDream]
#7437987 - 09/21/07 07:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow. That was one hell of a video! Thanks for posting that.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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SapphireCat
Seeker



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: zorbman]
#7438060 - 09/21/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd say leary was a "quack" as you put it. He probably had felt what alot of us have felt during our trips, and wanted to share it with the world. But, at least in my eyes, somewhere along the way he lost the plot and became a man on an ego trip.
-------------------- Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity ~Plato
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lavod
Seal Whisperer


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93 When talking about somebody like this you have to realize that, over time, people may just change their viewpoints and progress as an individual as a whole. I feel that, while I never knew him personally, the older Leary changed quite a bit from the Leary of the 60's and early 70's. He seemed to regulate his hyper enthusiasm later on, which got the better of him early in his career.
He was also a person who was largely demonized by the government and media. If he was'nt around, then someone else would have been the target. The governments feed off the ignorance of the mass. They only need one person to target, shut down, and show a falsified example of to crush an entire movement. 93 93/93
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Adom
Totally Nude


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7438191 - 09/21/07 08:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapwn said: I'm really having a hard time on deciding if he was crazy, or if he did the right thing. On one hand, he pretty much single handedly made LSD available to the world and henceforth, illegal. On the other hand, he was fighting the oppressors who ruin everyone's fun in the first place.
Opinions, I can't decide if I should respect him or not.
With out getting into the discussion here, I call him a dip shit, I think he was a manipulator-con-man out for easy money. He stunk from top to bottom and I don't care for his books.
All a matter of opinion.
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Clean
the lense


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7438933 - 09/22/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just look at his work with consciousness / brain change to see his contributions to humanity, and understand why the government wanted him locked up, and wanted LSD therapy / research suppressed, and the compound made illegal.
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zorbman
blarrr



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: Clean]
#7438950 - 09/22/07 12:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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All you have to know is his guidelines for a safe trip have stood the test of time:
Set and setting.
He helped create the template for an acid trip. Many people have benefited from his advice without even realizing it.
He told us to "Tune in. Turn on. Drop out."
He was a pioneer and not without his flaws, like any man, yet his work holds up after all these years. That is the hallmark of a great man.
Too many people trip just for shits and giggles without taking advantage of the potential for inner growth. Timothy Leary showed us the way and his methods have endured. That is all you really need to know.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (09/22/07 12:36 AM)
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OMniversal
A Blaze in the Northern Sky


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: Taco Chef]
#7438956 - 09/22/07 12:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lavod said: 93 When talking about somebody like this you have to realize that, over time, people may just change their viewpoints and progress as an individual as a whole. I feel that, while I never knew him personally, the older Leary changed quite a bit from the Leary of the 60's and early 70's. He seemed to regulate his hyper enthusiasm later on, which got the better of him early in his career.
He was also a person who was largely demonized by the government and media. If he was'nt around, then someone else would have been the target. The governments feed off the ignorance of the mass. They only need one person to target, shut down, and show a falsified example of to crush an entire movement. 93 93/93
I agree, that he was certainly demonized and used to justify extreme measures against LSD and the counterculture. However, I also think that he did bring alot of it on himself from his over enthusiasm for LSD as a means of mind liberation which of course scared the shit out of the elite. I also think due to his actions and the governments ignorance, we halted what was a very promising field in psychedelic research within the academic world.
I personally do not like labeling otherwise eccentric or offbeat people as quacks or crazy..even in mental illness, there is no diagnosis known as insanity. I think people tend to overuse this term for any idea or person who speaks of something that deviates from the norms. Not saying, for example, a schizophrenic would make complete sense when talking, however I think its best to approach everything and everyone with an open mind and digging a little deeper may sometimes uncover some little strands that may produce a meaningful pattern.
In the bigger picture of human history, I think Id be glad the character of Timothy Leary existed. I think his ideas just got caught up in the fast turbulent times of the 60s, not giving enough time for a good understanding of what the turn on, tune in, drop out mantra meant. And I agree that his ego may have gotten a little out of hand at times, but given that he had such a late trip in his life, that type of life changing experience so late in the game would no doubt become of great importance to oneself, so I suppose I understand his ambitious drive to share his revelations.
Like most things..this lies mostly in interpretation and opinion
Politics of ecstasy was a nice read back in grade 12..especially liked his writing style and his chart of the different levels of consciousness/reality/drugs that induce them etc.
Quote:
novumorganum said: in what categories are you speaking? his work on interpersonal therapy, and the Leary personality grid are still highly respected in the field.
Got any good links on this? Is this work before his LSD days or during?
-------------------- "We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I "When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about." -Einstein
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OMniversal
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: zorbman]
#7438968 - 09/22/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: Alll you have to know is his guidelines for a safe trip have stood the test of time:
Set and setting.
He told us to "Tune in. Turn on. Drop out."
He was a pioneer and not without his flaws, like any man, yet his work holds up after all these years. That is the hallmark of a great man.
Too many people trip just for shits and giggles without taking advantage of the potential for inner growth. Timothy Leary showed us the way and his methods have endured. That is all you really need to know.
Ah yes, set and setting definitely stands as a vital theory when dealing with drugs, especially psychedelics. I was glad to see it in my current psychology texts, although obviously no credit was given.
-------------------- "We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I "When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about." -Einstein
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7438973 - 09/22/07 12:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I lost interest in learly when he tried to relate a synthetic to a religious experience
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sui
I love you.



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7438979 - 09/22/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapwn said: I'm really having a hard time on deciding if he was crazy, or if he did the right thing. On one hand, he pretty much single handedly made LSD available to the world and henceforth, illegal. On the other hand, he was fighting the oppressors who ruin everyone's fun in the first place.
Opinions, I can't decide if I should respect him or not.
I respect him, i still think he was a Loon, but that doesnt make me respect him less.
I attribute it to the fact that it was so new at the time. He was figuring it out as he went along, some ideas were good, some were batshit crazy. Mostly he was just philosophizing.
Dont take anything he said as too concrete. But think about it back then he didnt have 40+ years of acumulated experience to learn from.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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Clean
the lense


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: OMniversal]
#7438981 - 09/22/07 12:32 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm actually surprised that they didn't come down harder on him... They did try to give him 35 years in prison for allegedly possessing a joint (Tim said it was planted by an officer).... but he could have suffered the fate of Wilhelm Reich, who died in jail and had all his papers burned by the U.S. government.
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sui
I love you.



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Quote:
Hyper_Panda_GO said: I lost interest in learly when he tried to relate a synthetic to a religious experience
Why? whats the difference from using LSD or Psilocybin. They both work. Its all about how its used.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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OMniversal
A Blaze in the Northern Sky


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Quote:
Hyper_Panda_GO said: I lost interest in learly when he tried to relate a synthetic to a religious experience
Are you implying only natural substances can potentially produce those kind of states? Or that he shouldn't have brought religious ideas into it?
-------------------- "We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I "When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about." -Einstein
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Hyper_Panda_GO
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: OMniversal]
#7438998 - 09/22/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Both
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sui
I love you.



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why? Whats your reasoning behind that totally ignorant statement?
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
Edited by sui (09/22/07 12:44 AM)
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zorbman
blarrr



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: Clean]
#7439009 - 09/22/07 12:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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What I find hilarious is that when Timothy Leary was imprisoned he was given the standard psychological evaluation test for prisoners at that time.
The very test he himself as a psychologist had created!
So he answered it in such a way as to create the profile of a harmless, mild-mannered conformist with a fondness for forestry and gardening and was subsequently assigned a prison job as a gardener in a lower security prison where he promptly escaped. 
Wheeeeeeeee!!!!!!!
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: sui]
#7439014 - 09/22/07 12:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't agree that a man made substance should be venerated on a religious level
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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sui
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Hahahahahaha
The blood of christ. Its wine, and a man made substance and its venerated on a religiuos level.
What religion are you?
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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sui
I love you.



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: zorbman]
#7439020 - 09/22/07 12:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: What I find hilarious is that when Timothy Leary was imprisoned he was given the standard psychological evaluation test for prisoners at that time.
The very test he himself as a psychologist had created!
So he answered it in such a way as to create the profile of a harmless, mild-mannered conformist with a fondness for forestry and gardening and was subsequently assigned a prison job as a gardener in a lower security prison where he promptly escaped. 
Wheeeeeeeee!!!!!!!
LOL yeah i thought that was awesome.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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Great Scott
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: OMniversal]
#7439024 - 09/22/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good Intentions Bad foresight
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: sui]
#7439026 - 09/22/07 12:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agnostic
Not really a religion, but yah
I don't agree with the wine part either, or much of any religious symbolism, it can exist on its own
I never got why is so damned important to take the Eucharist in Church when I was growing up, it seemed like a huge cop-out so people could seen but realize they'd be forgiven on a weekly basis
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Great Scott
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a long time ago, back in catholic school, i took the Eucharist and kept it in my mouth for like 20 minutes and then spit it out into the garbage can on the way out. a teacher saw me and totally shit a brick  I was always doing stuff like that... not out of any strong rebellious convictions (those would come later, in high school), but just because I wanted to test the boundaries.
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sui
I love you.



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I dont get it 
how can you not think a man made substance should be venerated religiously, but since your agnostic not have a set of beliefs to back up your opinion?
Your making my head explode.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
Edited by sui (09/22/07 01:02 AM)
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Hyper_Panda_GO
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: sui]
#7439039 - 09/22/07 01:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agnosticism is the acceptance that there may be God or higher power of some sort
Oh my god, that's what it is isn't it?
I'm going to look like such a jackass if I used that term wrong
Anyway, although I do not have a set of religious values, I do believe that religion is found within the self, and therefore one shouldn't need materialisitc things to look upon with reverence
The Bible, for example, had no greater effect on me than Psalms typed up with mispellings on a Word document
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7439136 - 09/22/07 01:57 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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In retrospect, it's often easy to bash pioneers. Take Freud for instance, in college all the profs do is point out his bizarre shortcomings but almost never give him the credit he deserves for basically pioneering a science. Whether or not we agree with the particulars of what Leary was about everyone should respect that he promoted the exploration and the study of LSD and mushrooms. He was a force for the promotion of freedom!
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Hyper_Panda_GO
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To be fair Frueds subjects weren't that encompassing
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OMniversal
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I would think Freud's emphasis on the unconscious and of childhood experience/development was quite important in the history of psychology...his details..not so good.
-------------------- "We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I "When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about." -Einstein
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: OMniversal]
#7439213 - 09/22/07 03:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree!
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JMK0420
is chillin


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7439259 - 09/22/07 03:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Man respect leary, Ken Kesey was the dude who drove all over the place havin open acid tests, leary held private sessions and wrote a bunch of shit down afterward to make it look legit. It's just since he was running for gov. of cali, and looked like he was gonna win, the cops planted two joints in his car and took him to jail. Then he escaped outta jail and went on the run. Who the fuck escapes out of jail, shits crazy. After they caught him "they" pretty much ruined his name and stripped him of all his credibility. Dude did a lot of impressive stuff. Id respect him and Kesey.
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Adom
Totally Nude


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: JMK0420]
#7439381 - 09/22/07 06:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I respect learys life works. I do not respect him as a human, why did he sit up in california doing drugs with high-ballers and not speak his mind? what did they have on him? did he start a pen name? I don't know, but I smell fish.
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD


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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7439481 - 09/22/07 06:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapwn said: I'm really having a hard time on deciding if he was crazy, or if he did the right thing. On one hand, he pretty much single handedly made LSD available to the world and henceforth, illegal. On the other hand, he was fighting the oppressors who ruin everyone's fun in the first place. Opinions, I can't decide if I should respect him or not.
I personaly believe it was the CIA that made LSD so available to people no one else
--------------------
"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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I believe yer IQ is small
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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i respect lilly...
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: truekimbo2]
#7439576 - 09/22/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don a tin foily hat
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD


Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: Adom]
#7439713 - 09/22/07 08:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adom said: I believe yer IQ is small
Well I shouldn't have said no one else but I do belive they played the biggest part along with the sandoz company and it stemmed from there
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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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Clean
the lense


Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
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now i must take back everything i said and everything i dind't say but that you thought i was saying... overnight I became an ontological superhero...I am... Absolute Man!
Leary obviously wasn't the next One True and Real Perfect Messiah come to save us all, so he must have been just another greedy asshole or a CIA agent. As we all know, any person who claims to want to improve the human condition is incorrect about everything they say, unless everything they say agrees with my beleif systems. The only people who have good intentions are the ones who agree with everything I believe. Only charlatans and cunning tricksters will dare to offer new perspectives to the world which don't jive with official dogmas established by governments and universities. Anyone who dares publish such ideas is motivated only by GREED and may as well be the Grinch who stole Christmas.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a book burning to attend.
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Phoshaman
Litteringannnnddddd?



Registered: 06/01/99
Posts: 1,557
Loc: FLAHHHIDAAA
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: AlCapwn]
#7441929 - 09/22/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is common knowledge amongst both his friends and foes alike that he gradually turned into a quack as his age and drug use progressed.
Hunter S. Thompson loathed him for a reason. Leary fucked a LOT of lives up. Promising a light at the end of the tunnel he brought people to, but left them fending for themselves on their trip through, eventually getting lost along the way.
Leary was a major catalyst in the failure of psychedelic culture.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: Phoshaman]
#7442101 - 09/22/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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He did lose his edge towards the end of his life but by then his major contributions to psychedelic culture were complete. He was old and suffering from cancer and being treated with opiates when he made most of his mistakes.
And he couldn't personally hold the hand of every person who took an acid trip but he gave reasonable guidelines for them which are still in use today..Set and setting. Those words of advice have stood the test of time and even if he had done nothing else in life he created the template for a healthy acid trip. More people should follow his advice.
He was a great man.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: zorbman]
#7442489 - 09/23/07 01:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i hear a echo
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: Adom]
#7442505 - 09/23/07 01:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Empty brain space will tend to create reverberations..
Hellooooooooooooooooooooooo??
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Was Leary a quack? [Re: zorbman]
#7442521 - 09/23/07 01:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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hell nooooooooooooooo
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