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KrissKross
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Rye jar questions
#7437354 - 09/21/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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My friend is trying to learn how to grow on rye and he has a few questions that havent been answered by any of the posts he has read.
1. Does rye have a strong smell to it, even when its not contaminated? When my friend opens his pc after 2 hours of pcing quart jars at 15 PSI there is a smell that comes out of it and thats how his jars smell too.
2.what are the visible signs of rye that is too wet, or of rye that is too dry?
3.How long, is too long to PC grains and what does it look like when it happens?
4. Is it bad to shake jars immediatly after inoculation?
5. If a jar is pc'd wuthout tinfoil covering the tyvek will that compromise the jar? What if lysol is sprayed onto it?
6. How long does it take for LC to show visible growth on rye?
7. Is there any way that pre-soaked grain, pc'd at 15 psi for 2 hours, could still be contaminated.
8. If you leave wet, allready presoaked grains, that have been drained and strained, to sit for too long, can contaminants grow to the point of being un-killable by pcing?
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CosmicFunGuy
ॐconsciousnessॐ




Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 2,127
Loc: ∞
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Re: Rye jar questions [Re: KrissKross]
#7437400 - 09/21/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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1. Does rye have a strong smell to it, even when its not contaminated? When my friend opens his pc after 2 hours of pcing quart jars at 15 PSI there is a smell that comes out of it and thats how his jars smell too.
rye smells delicious 
2.what are the visible signs of rye that is too wet, or of rye that is too dry?
before loading jars put a tablespoon of rye berries on a piece of paper towel it should not be wet... make sure after your simmer you shake off the steam in the colander well. when pulling out of the PC it shouldn't look wet.
3.How long, is too long to PC grains and what does it look like when it happens?
if your moisture content is right, you should be able to pc like 3 hours, but don't take that for fact.
4. Is it bad to shake jars immediatly after inoculation?
yes, although some will argue, shake when the jar reaches 30-35% colonized and then when you spawn thats it.
5. If a jar is pc'd wuthout tinfoil covering the tyvek will that compromise the jar? What if lysol is sprayed onto it?
wet filters equal bad filter. your tyvek is your filter, if you do not cover with foil, it will get wet, that is bad. Lysol is useless throw it away unless you like to make mutants, it will not save a jar that hasn't had foil covering it in the PC.
6. How long does it take for LC to show visible growth on rye?
3 days-1 1/2weeks, maybe longer if you inject spores into the center.
7. Is there any way that pre-soaked grain, pc'd at 15 psi for 2 hours, could still be contaminated.
it's highly unlikely. However, if you didn't use foil it will get contaminated more than likely
8. If you leave wet, allready presoaked grains, that have been drained and strained, to sit for too long, can contaminants grow to the point of being un-killable by pcing?
you can leave them sit for a while. i don't recommend more than over night though. i've only ever left it set 2 hours.
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♫ ♪ In the garden of many fields, there is no me or you. There is no right or wrong. There is no up or down. There is no black or white. Everyone is the plow man. Everyone is the seed. Everyone harvests and everyone yields. In the garden of many fields, everyone is one with one love and one love is one with everyone. ♪ ♫ lyrics from: Transglobal Underground - Eyeway Souljah (from Psychic Karaoke)
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RoachMan
Old Man




Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Midwest
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Re: Rye jar questions [Re: KrissKross]
#7437539 - 09/21/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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2.what are the visible signs of rye that is too wet, or of rye that is too dry?
After soaking the rye for 24-36 hours, rinse well, simmer until a few grains burst open (less than 1%), strain well, and then load your jars. If you still want to see if the grains were too wet...let a jar sit for an hour before PC'ing...if the grain was too wet then there will be liquid accumulating at the bottom of the jar(s) which is definitely NOT GOOD
3.How long, is too long to PC grains and what does it look like when it happens?
Start your timer when the PC weight begins to rock... 90 minutes. Rye that has been PC'd too long will look dry (not shiny at all), and develop many furrows/wrinkles on the grains.
4. Is it bad to shake jars immediatly after inoculation?
I do it every single time (when using LC).
5. If a jar is pc'd wuthout tinfoil covering the tyvek will that compromise the jar? What if lysol is sprayed onto it?
As already said...stay away from the lysol. The main purpose of the foil is to keep water from entering the jar which ruins the moisture content inside the jar.
6. How long does it take for LC to show visible growth on rye? If the LC was very thick, and well colonized...I've had visible growth in under 24 hours, but 2 days is common.
7. Is there any way that pre-soaked grain, pc'd at 15 psi for 2 hours, could still be contaminated.
There are still some living spores and/or bacteria that can be present in grains even after PC'ing. Pressure cooking the grains basically gives the mycelium a head start against competing organisms.
8. If you leave wet, allready presoaked grains, that have been drained and strained, to sit for too long, can contaminants grow to the point of being un-killable by pcing?
I'm not sure about that, but I would just err on the safe side and not let it soak more than 36 hours, and not let it sit for more than 12 hours. That's just my guideline though.
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KrissKross
Stranger


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye jar questions [Re: RoachMan]
#7437803 - 09/21/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok my friends jars must be too dry becuase the grains look darker and much less shiny than they did before they where pc'ed. Hes still a little concerned about the smell, it is very evident if he puts his nose up to the tyvek filter and smells. The smell kind of reminds him of heavily seasoned snack foods, like certain kinds of chips almost, it isnt realy an odor that makes him want to puke though. My friend sprays lysol on the lids of his jars (before innoculating) to kill any contaminants that might be sitting there. Can that compromise the dryness of the filter or is it just bad altogether? My friend inoculated these jars with some LC just over two days ago and the only thing he can think of is that the rye is too dry, the LC died since he used them last week, or the jars contaminated before any myc could grow. None of these possibilites can be ruled out yet but he will be taking notes for sure.
BTW thanx for the info u guys cleared up alot of uncertainties in my friends head.
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CosmicFunGuy
ॐconsciousnessॐ




Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 2,127
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Re: Rye jar questions [Re: KrissKross]
#7438283 - 09/21/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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lysol like i said does nothing but cause mutants...
it is no substitute for proper procedure.
he should've pc'd with foil over the lids and then removed the foil right before innoculating therefore not having to worry about stuff on the tyvek...
as for moisture content if he didn't have foil over the jars the content is most likely off now.
i hope your friend has more lc... i'd personally keep the jars for a week or so just to see if they worked but in all honesty i'd expect to see green in no time.... because of my expectation while i waited to see i'd make more jars rye and jars aren't expensive and tyvek is free, if he has an lc what can he lose by doing things right.
your friend should really take a look at magash's rye tek as well as all of Disc one on RR's video... i think he could stand to learn a lot of useful information that will lead to his happiness (yours too i'm sure...)
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♫ ♪ In the garden of many fields, there is no me or you. There is no right or wrong. There is no up or down. There is no black or white. Everyone is the plow man. Everyone is the seed. Everyone harvests and everyone yields. In the garden of many fields, everyone is one with one love and one love is one with everyone. ♪ ♫ lyrics from: Transglobal Underground - Eyeway Souljah (from Psychic Karaoke)
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KrissKross
Stranger


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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My friend currently has some more jars soaking some rye right now. He also has some jars, that where done in the second round of pcing, which did have tinfoil, and where only inoculated yesterday. Those jars also appear to be too dry and no sign of growth in them either. My friend is concerned that perhaps his PC is reaching a pressure higher than 15PSI because his pc does not have a meter to indicate the pressure. When he PC's these next jars he will only PC for 90 min and see how that goes.
Just to be clear, Lysol is absolutely useles for sanitizing any surface, or just jar lids?
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mycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias



Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
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Re: Rye jar questions [Re: KrissKross]
#7439629 - 09/22/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you soaked your rye grains for at least 12-48 hours and then brought them to a rolling boil at the end of that soak time, all the moisture needed will be on the inside (of the individual grains).
What kind of lid do you have in place? I've used tyvek before and underneath the tyvek was the metal canning lid with four very small pin holes drilled out. That being said, I've seen posts where people didn't use any kind of metal canning lid and the tyvek was the only barrier and that will cause your jars to dry out way to fast.
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Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude. I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected... - How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates - How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier - How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse ------------------------------------ figgusfiddus said: Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.
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KrissKross
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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My friend is currently using a variation of what you describe, where the filter disc is under the metal jar lid. Some of the lids where purchased from a shroomery sponsor and some where lids my friend made that copy that design. My friend is also going to try the method with filetr discs on top when he does these next jars.
When my friend prepared the grain last time, he boiled the rye for 15-30 minutes ,while still boiling he dumped most of the water with the gunk in it. When rye berries started pouring out with the water he put a strainer under it. He shook the strainer and tossed it to get all the steam and excess moisture to come out. He did this repeatedly every five minutes or so until the rye grains did not seem wet. He then loaded into jars and proceed to do two more batches like that. He stagered the batches so that the jars from the first batch where ready to load just before the second batch was done boiling. Some of the jars probly sat for one to one and a half hours before being pced. 3 out of 7 where placed in the fridge with unmodified canning lids secured tighly to prevent moisture from escaping. After being placed in the fridge much condensation was seen collecting at the top of the jars. these jars where pc'd the next day after warming to room temperature, they where the ones tjhat did have the foil protecting the lids. My friend thinks it may be relevant to note that most of the jars where only filled half full with rye berries, and he wonders if having to much air space might have caused the drying.
This time my friend will follow the tek more closely and time everything he does.
He will: boil immeditaly after soaking Boil for 10 minutes one batch, 15 minutes for one, 20 minutes for one. Rinse grains after boiling fill jars 3/4 full Experiment with a variety of lid designs secure lid immeditaly after filling jars Secure tinfoil over lids make sure that none of the jar is submerged in water inside the pc only PC for 90 minutes
Hes pretty sure that this will do the trick but still thinks he may have overlooked something.
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