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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath?
    #7436298 - 09/21/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Are these people who don't feel emotions? Are they just really stressed out? Psychopaths and sociopaths are as natural as the "normal" human are they not? I'm interested in hearing opinions on this.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436319 - 09/21/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Are they just really stressed out?

Most definitely.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLily_Morgan
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436327 - 09/21/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

There's not really much room for interpretation on this subject, you can look up definitions of the terms:

Psychopathy is defined in psychiatry and clinical psychology as a condition characterized by lack of empathy[1][2] or conscience, and poor impulse control[3][4] or manipulative behaviors.

A sociopath is a person who has antisocial personality disorder. The term sociopath is no longer used to describe this disorder. The sociopath is now described as someone with antisocial personality disorder. The main characteristic of a sociopath is a disregard for the rights of others. Sociopaths are also unable to conform to what society defines as a normal personality.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Lily_Morgan]
    #7436384 - 09/21/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Are psychopaths basically very selfish people who have not been able to humble themselves from the very early unconscious state? As in, when you are a baby and you perceive yourself to be the whole of existence and you have not yet separated your little self from the big Self?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436428 - 09/21/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

And so life will never fulfill a psychopath because it can never match the warm embrace of the womb.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436452 - 09/21/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Here's a great article on this subject:

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07/03/improving-the-definition-of-%E2%80%98psychopath%E2%80%99/

Psychopaths are individuals with anti-social personality disorder.  The origin I put the most stock in is the failure-to-attach theory.  The idea is that we learn empathy through our primary caregiver's responsiveness to our needs as infants.  If our caregiver is unavailable, unresponsive or irregularly responsive, we will not develop our capacity for empathy.

You could say that psychopaths/sociopaths are natural, as they are not artificially manufactured, but they are certainly not optimally developed. :sad:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Veritas]
    #7436534 - 09/21/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm, that theory makes sense. So much for people having ultimate control over the way they choose to be.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436769 - 09/21/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

We have control over our choices, but not our capacity.  :shrug:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Veritas]
    #7436786 - 09/21/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I've never really thought about it like that before. I thought humans having infinite potential meant that they could pretty much change their nature, do you mean to say that some people really aren't as capable of being as intelligent or loving as others?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436791 - 09/21/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Hmm, that theory makes sense. So much for people having ultimate control over the way they choose to be.




We have no choice about beginnings, then we can choose to struggle to gain control over those early unwanted programs. But one needs energy to struggle and energy is wasted in self-importance which is the problem itself. If the water leaks out faster then it pours in there is no chance for fulfillment. Plug yer leaks.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436798 - 09/21/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Of course. If the mechanism (body) through which we express our consciousness is damaged during gestation and/or birth, or we do not receive the nurturing we need during our formative years, our potential will be compromised.

However, for most so-called "normal" humans, our limitations on critical thinking ability (far more important than intelligence, IMO) and loving actions are self-imposed.


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OfflineLion
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436813 - 09/21/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
And so life will never fulfill a psychopath because it can never match the warm embrace of the womb.


Sounds like most humans.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Lion]
    #7436822 - 09/21/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My mother says that I was born singing, so it seems that I was happy where I was, and happy to be somewhere new.  :grin:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Lion]
    #7436836 - 09/21/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That's what I'm thinking bug. I think we are all normal, but the degree to which we limit ourselves varies from individual to individual. I'm still not putting my faith in this scientific idea that our capabilities come from how healthy our brains are. And isn't it only after someone feels like they've been given a bad hand in life is when they start blaming how their parents nurtured them?

I want to believe that humans have more conscious ability to steer their path then most other animals, that we can overcome more through will and courage.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7436845 - 09/21/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

that we can overcome more through will and courage. :thumbup:

I suggest reading Carlos Castaneda's ideas on "will" and "intent"


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7437018 - 09/21/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Using generalized labels like psychopath and sociopath is really not a good means of dealing with socially aberrant humans. People stand or fall on their acts. Why do we need labels to categorize them with? We have laws to control peoples acts, so using labels for differences in perception when there is no benchmark for normal or abnormal usually allows society to gloss over these differences instead of addressing them or understanding them.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7437032 - 09/21/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Law do not govern all interactions, and cannot undo acts once they have happened (only punish the actor), therefore it can be helpful to recognize patterns of behavior which indicate someone is not cooking on all four burners. :shrug:  The label does not define the person, but it suggests the general inclination of their behaviors.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Veritas]
    #7437046 - 09/21/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I did not say all. Labels ARE used by the medical community instead of understanding.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7437049 - 09/21/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That's just fast food medicine. :grin:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7437222 - 09/21/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Are psychopaths basically very selfish people who have not been able to humble themselves from the very early unconscious state? As in, when you are a baby and you perceive yourself to be the whole of existence and you have not yet separated your little self from the big Self?




The inability to humble oneself was what John Voigt illustrated so well in the movie 'Runaway Train.' Antisocial Personality Disorder has codified criteria in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV-Revised), or the strictly medical ICD-9 (International Classification of Diseases) has certain criteria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder.
There is a lot of literature on the topic, and some evidence indicates an abnormality from birth. Infants may scream and protest when held or fondled - the opposite of 'normal' infants. There has also been the spurious claim for a genetic XYY syndrome which is supposed to result in extremely aggressive males, but this wouldn't account for the majority of sociopaths. Criminals themselves may blame external influences for their own choices. Charles Miles Manson always blamed "society" for having made him the way he is. Theodore (Ted) Bundy, sadist, serial killer and necrophagiac, blamed "pornography."

As the Wiki article points out in the Freudian blurb, there is the preponderance of Id and Ego processes with a lack or absence of Superego development (Conscience) which develops through time by the introjection (absorption) of mores and morals by way of one's parents or principle care-givers. If one gets raised by sociopaths, one grows up a sociopath in this model, as opposed to the 'bad seed' anomolous genetic model. Of course, it could very well be that dysfunctions of moral development can have multiple causes.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7437415 - 09/21/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

...but all of this does not rob us of choice or absolve us of responsibility.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7437488 - 09/21/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

While I appreciate all the technical explanations for these labeled conditions, my suggestion for you would be to seek out people who have been so labeled and get to know them. This will answer your question far better than any non labeled person can hope to.


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You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7438165 - 09/21/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No, but choices made with a complete absence of empathy, like Jeffrey Dahmer drilling holes in the brain of his victims with a Black & Decker in order to make sex slaves, is sociopathic and stupid ( in failing see as how infection and death would be swift).


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7439071 - 09/22/07 01:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

One pithy summary was psychopaths feel bad for their deeds, sociopaths just don't give a fuck


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7441188 - 09/22/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Psychopath is the older form of sociopath. They are synonymous. Sociopath derives from Antisocial Personality Disorder.


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InvisibleTTT
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7441518 - 09/22/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hyper_Panda_GO said:
One pithy summary was psychopaths feel bad for their deeds, sociopaths just don't give a fuck




Really? I heard it was the other way I around.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: TTT]
    #7441529 - 09/22/07 07:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No, they are the same.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7444061 - 09/23/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Individuals suffering from Antisocial personality disorder generally have an underdeveloped superior posterior temporal sulcus and other abnormalities in their prefrontal cortex. The superior posterior temporal sulcus is the area of the brain responsible for processing social emotions (empathy, guilt, etc.)


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OfflineBoots
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Re: What is a Psychopath or a Sociopath? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7446762 - 09/24/07 07:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

As far as "what is...?" Look it up in the dictionary.

On a side note, I've been called a sociopath many a times by my father, but I'm inclined to say I have sociopathic tendencies rather than being an actual sociopath.


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