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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams?
    #7434350 - 09/20/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I was thinking last night on randomly stupid subjects when all of a sudden a very interesting thought came to my head. Can alkaloids interact with the DMT that is released during REM sleep alter our dreams?

I know this is true of course, as I've had experiences with particularly odd dreams while getting messed up. One was of when I drank half a bottle of Pancof HC (Hydrocodone and pseudoephedrine) and was nodding pretty good. I had read that it can induce very vivid intense dreams. That night was the first night I had a nightmare since probably elementary school. It was very very vivid (finely detailed) and pretty psychadelic. It was almost like a bad trip. If anyone watches the series Big Love on HBO my dream involved me in my parents dressing area (Not the actual area, but it's sort of meant to be it, but this area has always only been in nightmares) And the Blonde middle wife walking out of the bathroom, and then her neck all of a sudden elongating 20 feet like some sort of cobra and wind picking up and she was really angry at me about something and started yelling in this monster voice, and it only got louder and more intense. I also remember talking to an angry ghost with a more quiet but dangerous feeling in that dream too but I don't remember what either conversations were over. (The effect of the cobra necked wife yelling at me was very similar to the screaming scene in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=gp_clxHxqNI )

Now since I've been recording my dreams I've been able to pick detail out much more so, and dreams are usually psychadelic in a much more subtle manner. Like things you don't notice, for example the tv will look very very similar but the buttons will be all mixed up or maybe in the wrong area all together.

The coolest thing though about dream has to be the utter possibilities you have. I was dreaming one night and I had been listening to the mescaline iDose earlier. And I was sitting on the side of a somewhat busy road at a cafe, when all of a sudden I thought "wait a second, I've been listening to mescaline." And all of a sudden the road sort of detached (but didn't move up or down vertically, I can't explain it too well without drawing it) and began having weird wave vibrations in it and sometimes it would get extremely intense and the noise that went with the effect would get extremely loud then.

I'd like to get better at recording, and remembering dreams to the point where I can remember very fine detail. It'd be interesting to see how DMT interacts with so many different chemicals.

Has anyone had their own experiences about certain alkaloids effecting their dreams?


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #7434427 - 09/20/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I really and truly don't believe that DMT has anything to do with your REM sleep or natural dreaming process.

Think about what you experience during a DMT trip. Totally alien worlds, utterly amazing shit that you could not even imagine in normal reality.

Now think about the shit you normally dream about...usually it's seemingly normal activies, involving people or places that you are familiar with in your life.

The two experiences are just so NOT alike in any way, it's hard to come to the conclusion that your dreaming is caused from DMT being released into you're brain.

I think someone that dreams about "trippy" things happening, or dreams they are tripping, would stem from your previous experiences, not the chemicals themselves. The mind subconsciously records those events into the script pool (per say), and inserts them into the dream scene however it deems fit to do so.

In the cases of dreaming of things that you've never experienced before, I think one possibility is that the mind has the ability to slightly alter the content. Perhaps combining several experience feelings into a single event in a dream, and you probably just dont recognize it.


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Edited by enesi (09/20/07 09:39 PM)


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: enesi]
    #7434451 - 09/20/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I really don't think that the naturally occurring DMT in your body has an affect on your dreaming. However, after tripping on DMT numerous times, I have found that external use of DMT truly changes your dreaming process. Lucid dreaming is made easy, and dream recall is heavily increased. DMT has made it possible for me to enter into WILD (wake-induced lucid dreams). It truly is an amazing experience.


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May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: enesi]
    #7434490 - 09/20/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you enesei. whenever you begin lucid dreaming every night and begin recording and remembering your dreams very well, you will notice how rediculously psychadelic they are, and how it's so strangethat most people don't realize it. It's because they don't remember the fine details, they just remember the general plot of the dream, which is usually relatively 'normal'.

I had one dream where it consisted of me siting on my landing area criss-crossed holding an old NES just making observations about it. I knew something was weird with it or that it didn't look normal, and I couldn't even find the game slot to put the game in.

When I woke up I actually made some pretty weird observations about the dreams:
I would randomly "spawn" (like in counter-strike) in the bathroom connected to the landing area, I would then walk into the landing area look at the NES and then re-spawn in the bathroom and repeat the experience over. I don't know how many times it did this or how long it lasted as DMT messes with your internal body clock. (That's another good example supporting dreams being influenced by DMT as they seem to last for a very long time, but really they're quite quick and you have many many dreams in one night)

The reason we don't have crazy trips while dreaming though like when smoking DMT is because the amount present is much less, and is being administered to the brain by a different means from inhalation.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #7434567 - 09/20/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, dreams are ridiculously psychedelic, but the dreaming experience is a lot different than the DMT experience.

Have you ever tried DMT?

Even minor dosages of DMT aren't really similar to the experience of dreaming. In and of itself, dreaming is a psychedelic. Just like mushrooms are a psychedelic, so is dreaming. After a lot of experiences, I have concluded that your endogenous DMT does not trigger your dreaming. However, it can have an impact on it, which could be compared to the impact that DMT use has to mushroom use. They're all interactive, and yet, they are all different.


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May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: Feanor]
    #7434656 - 09/20/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yes I agree that DMT does not create dreaming, but I must say that it has a strong impact on dreams.

Lately I've been 'tripping' my dreams out on purpose almost. I think that there is just enough DMT active in the brain during REM sleep to give you the "sandbox" type effect in your dreams.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #7435389 - 09/21/07 05:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

dmt in the brain was strassman's conjecture,
it has not been proven as a natural phenomenon.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7435435 - 09/21/07 05:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

right, it is simply a theory.

I still think it's your experience that causes the trippy scenes. If you've tripped a lot, then you will dream about it eventually.

And if you are provoking trippy events by your lucid dreaming practices, then that's where it's stemming from, not DMT being released while you sleep.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: enesi]
    #7435500 - 09/21/07 06:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This is what i think:

When you go to sleep every night you have to pass through a stage of being not quite asleep, not quite awake. It's like you go to sleep in stages of lucidity.

At a certain point, just before you fall totally asleep and unconscious, your mind is in this trippy half/half state where normal, average thoughts take totally unexpected and trippy turns. If you suddenly get jolted awake in this state you often get very confused and you might see weird shit or you might not be able to move and you'll hallucinate or you might start to float around or anything.

I notice a similar level of sheer creativity and weirdness in this trance/sleep state as i have with DMT.

If DMT is related to dreams at all, i don't think its as in: 'DMT causes weird dreams' as it would be 'DMT complicates the thought processes to a point that normal scenes are interpreted more creatively'.


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:igor: RIP :igor:

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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: undergrounder]
    #7435911 - 09/21/07 10:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Guys...

DMT is only one chemical in a large spectrum of neurotransmitters and possible psychedelic chemicals being produced by the brain (I think it HAS been proven that DMT is an endogenous chemical, just not found DEFINITEVELY in the brain. Google 'dmt in human blood').

So it's probably not JUST DMT affecting our sleeping consciousness. It is probably a lot of chemicals, probably including DMT, and probably including other chemicals we would experience as psychedelic.

There is an interesting thing happening with psychedelics in the human brain. DMT and all the other brain chemicals are part of it. So is the mere fact that we dream, regardless of what chemical ends up influencing it.

But yes, I think that tinkering with the chemicals in your brain by taking exogenous psychedelics can change things around, and very much alter your dreams.

But hey, you guys can't deny that you feel a little bit of DMT in the dream world, and a little bit of your dreams in the DMT world. I definetely think they are related.


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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OfflineIwantELVES
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #7436017 - 09/21/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The first time I hit DMT, I couldn't sleep at all for a few days. The dreams that followed where quite lucid...


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Offlinedirtworshipper
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: IwantELVES]
    #7436181 - 09/21/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

IwantELVES said:
The first time I hit DMT, I couldn't sleep at all for a few days.  The dreams that followed where quite lucid...




wow..
are you sure that was DMT and not some form of amphetamine?
:rofl:
i'm kidding.. but..
DMT shouldn't last longer than 5 minutes really..

or was it just the profound impact that it had on you that kept you awake?
I could see that being more probable, and probably what you're referring to


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“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison


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Offlineleturheadread
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #7439007 - 09/22/07 12:43 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i agree REO
wow this is like a dream is the first thing i thought when i smoked dmt, then wow this feels to natural. dmt also has seemed to drasticaly changed my dreams, well specificaly the week or so after i do it.

during that lucid time as you fall asleep i often become aware im slipping into a dream world and often i see an insane alien landscape sometimes there figures there that try to say something but i always seem to like trip and i wake up falling out of my bed or into my bed if im laying on my stomach, its some trippy shit. as i trip and fall i get the same feeling i got when i bungy jumped while in new zealand a gut wrenching oh shit weres this gonna go.


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"Im the conundrummer in a band called Life Puzzler" RENAGADE ANGEL
-trip trip along
spend your day
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trip trip
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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: undergrounder]
    #7441332 - 09/22/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

undergrounder said:
If DMT is related to dreams at all, i don't think its as in: 'DMT causes weird dreams' as it would be 'DMT complicates the thought processes to a point that normal scenes are interpreted more creatively'.




I would definitely have to agree, that's probably the best way to look at how are dreams are different from reality.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: Can Chemical interactions alter our dreams? [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #7441577 - 09/22/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I took a medication to stop smoking cigarettes (did'nt work) but it gives u vivid life like I remember everything type dreams! I always wonder what it would be like after falling alseep after you trip. probably cool as shit. Its called Chantix, if anyone wants to try it. It really worked for my friend and my mom so if u smoke might be a fun investment,:bongload:


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