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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7435108 - 09/21/07 01:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It is highly doubtful they were arrested for simply "reading the Constitution".. that's just an appeal to emotion. Organized public protests are almost always regulated and planned on some degree, and it is usually small, disorganized counter-protests that end up violating some dot and title of the civil code, which is likely what happened in this case. If someone was honestly arrested for simply reading the U.S. constitution, it would likely be a major national headline. This.. this is just an obscure YouTube video.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: Basilides]
    #7435415 - 09/21/07 05:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
It is highly doubtful they were arrested for simply "reading the Constitution".. that's just an appeal to emotion. Organized public protests are almost always regulated and planned on some degree, and it is usually small, disorganized counter-protests that end up violating some dot and title of the civil code, which is likely what happened in this case. If someone was honestly arrested for simply reading the U.S. constitution, it would likely be a major national headline. This.. this is just an obscure YouTube video.




do you always discredit brand new stories based on hypotheticals and assumptions?


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution out loud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: Diploid]
    #7436204 - 09/21/07 11:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There are many unanswered questions about this situation. But Code Pink's usual tactic as of late is shouting down those they disagree with.

They did it recently at the televised congressional hearing of General David Petraeus. Several Code Pink members wearing silly pink costumes were seated in the public section of the meeting room. At a certain point they stood up and displayed signs while shouting. They were escorted out and most likely arrested.

So I would not be surprised if they had set up shop without permits next to the pro-war rally and attempted to drown out the speakers there, ironically depriving them of their constitutional right to free speech, and were arrested. Makes sense to me.

I don't believe that is the right way to make your point. If you want to get your message out, hold your own rally elsewhere rather than disrupting the free speech of another group of citizens with opposing view points.

Such tactics do not persuade people, they merely make you look like an ass.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (09/21/07 05:48 PM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution out loud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: zorbman]
    #7436596 - 09/21/07 01:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They whole thing they did at the hearing was retarded. It was a friggin' PROGRESS report. They did more harm to themselves than good with that one.

How the hell did they even get in there in the first place?


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution out loud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: zorbman]
    #7436665 - 09/21/07 01:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Would like to see more of the context... would be better to form more of an opinion, however regardless thats some pretty ridiculous stuff :frown:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: Basilides]
    #7436778 - 09/21/07 02:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The openning question I asked was if this arrest, appeared to be one under this new law in the Patriot Act.


Quote:

The writ of habeas corpus, guarantees a prisoners right to know the charges against them in a court of law without being held in indefinite confinement just because someone wants them detained. Without it Presidents and Kings have historically been able to lock people up, essentially throwing away the key, and disappearing them by allowing them to rot in jail. The writ of habeas corpus stems from the Magna Carta of 1215 and was so important for protecting peoples rights that when our forefathers wrote our Constitution in the United States, it became a foundation point for our own Bill of Rights. Having the writ of habeas corpus suspended for terror suspects, can also endanger American citizens as the Patriot Act defines 'domestic terrorists' as anyone that challenges the policies of government administration especially anti-war demonstrators.

Should the writ of habeas corpus be suspended indefinitely, it will only be a matter of time before anti-war, anti-police state, peace loving Americans like myself, yourself are locked up as a harassment measure and possibly indefinitely detained with charges considered 'state secrets.' We may then be brought before bogus 'military tribunals' where we can then be sentenced to death without every knowing or the government releasing what crime we may have committed and been sentenced to death for. If you think this is far from the truth, look into the case of Jose Padilla, an American citizen who was held without charge for 3 years on information considered 'state secret' until a federal judge expressed doubts about the strength of the government's terror conspiracy case against he and others. The judge ordered prosecutors to provide more evidence of alleged violent activities overseas because the judge could find no real concrete evidence for his prosecution or further imprisonment.





I'm curious to know if the police are now enforcing that part of the Patriot Act, in some instances. I cannot find ANY news reports of an arrest being made, with charges, for this incident. Refer to the bolded sections.

I'd feel a sense of relief if anyone can dig up a " Disturbing the peace" or "protesting without a permit charge" placed against them for this incident. If they were chraged with breaking either law, then so be it. My question is resolved then.


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Invisiblebreakableweed
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7436788 - 09/21/07 02:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Someone should stand on a box in a park and start angrily reading the U.S. Constitution - translated in Arabic - while dressed as a sheik - a la TOOL's Die Eier Von Satan :grin:


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution out loud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: BrAiN]
    #7437699 - 09/21/07 05:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
They whole thing they did at the hearing was retarded. It was a friggin' PROGRESS report. They did more harm to themselves than good with that one.

How the hell did they even get in there in the first place?




Unless the hearing is held in closed session (such as in the case of testimony involving covert intelligence) members of the public are reserved a certain number of seats in the hearing room. Basically, as long as they make it through the metal detectors they are allowed in.

The way it works is every few minutes a group is ushered quietly to their seats and after a specified time limit are rotated out to allow another group in. This way the maximum number of people are allowed to view the proceedings.

Before being ushered into the hearing room they are cautioned to remain quiet and make no display of either approval or non-approval of the proceedings.

This is done to prevent a circus-like atmosphere or environment where people feel they cannot speak openly and honestly.

Btw, I trained as a congressional aide which is how I know this.


--------------------
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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: kotik]
    #7438671 - 09/21/07 10:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
It is highly doubtful they were arrested for simply "reading the Constitution".. that's just an appeal to emotion. Organized public protests are almost always regulated and planned on some degree, and it is usually small, disorganized counter-protests that end up violating some dot and title of the civil code, which is likely what happened in this case. If someone was honestly arrested for simply reading the U.S. constitution, it would likely be a major national headline. This.. this is just an obscure YouTube video.




do you always discredit brand new stories based on hypotheticals and assumptions?




No, I'm just following a standard use of logic here. It's not illegal to "read the constitution" in the United States. That's ridiculous. What is more likely is that a regulated protocol was violated by this protest.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7438696 - 09/21/07 10:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I cannot find ANY news reports of an arrest being made, with charges, for this incident




Do you have any information at all regarding the specifics of the protest itself? Where did it take place, even?

And do charges of "disorderly conduct" normally make the press rounds (that is, if you're not a U.S. Senator)?


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: Basilides]
    #7439738 - 09/22/07 08:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What I have to go on form the video...

They were U.S. Capital Police, so it was at apark in D.C.

It was at a pro war rally hosted by Senators McCain, Lieberman and Graham.

They were told they could stand there with their signs, but if they spoke, they would be arrested. A woman started reading the first amendment in responce, and she was the first to be arrested.

2 men also were, one being an Iraq War Vet.

Code Pink people were there, so I looked at their web-site for this one and though they post their activities and arrests, this one isn't there.

I did many searches on that McCain rally in DC and found nothing.

In the video, you can see a news cameraman.

Remember, the new addition to the Patriot Act say, you can be arrested without charge, as a domestic terrorists, for undermining the stabilization efforts in Iraq.

It happened next to a pro Iraq war rally hosted by 3 Senators.

I wish I could get confirmation on, if these particular arrests, were based on the enforcement against domestic terrorists as defined in the Patriot Act.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7439793 - 09/22/07 09:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

umm... why a pro-war rally anyways?

if they are so pro-war, why aren't they in the military, or over there right now as private contractors?


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: kotik]
    #7439804 - 09/22/07 09:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Because they need to feed the economic engine that buys the equipment that allows our intrepid soldiers the means to defeat the enemy. As opposed to the anti war protesters (Why aren't they over there as human shields?) who would just as soon fellate the enemy and beg their forgiveness.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: kotik]
    #7439889 - 09/22/07 09:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
umm... why a pro-war rally anyways?

if they are so pro-war, why aren't they in the military, or over there right now as private contractors?




Not sure about the other two Senators motives, but McCain is running for Pres, working to drum up support for the war on Iraq, to drum up support for his nomination. Maybe if he keeps singing his remake of Barabaran,  "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" enough, the American Idol voter will turn on to him. :shrug:

Whatever, I just want to know if they started arresting Iraq war protesters, under the new patriot act law that makes them domestic terrorists.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7439932 - 09/22/07 10:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Because they need to feed the economic engine that buys the equipment that allows our intrepid soldiers the means to defeat the enemy. As opposed to the anti war protesters (Why aren't they over there as human shields?) who would just as soon fellate the enemy and beg their forgiveness.




One of the men arrested at this rally, was serving in Iraq, making himself a human target.

Lets not forget that the bulk of campaign donations from the United States Military personnel are going to candidates who want to end this war.

Are they all domestic terrorists?


Seeing this new law in writing is one thing. If that video is seeing it being enforced in action, then, times have changed in America.

zap, what goes through your mind, when you hear that the Islamic terrorist LOVE this war because they are watching it...

erode away American freedoms and liberties,

stall the economy because people are afraid to spend.

kill and injury our military

run us into obscene national debt

and divide us on the issue?

They are winning their goals and will for as long as we keep sending troops, instead of diplomats there.

Edit- typo


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/22/07 10:18 AM)


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7440267 - 09/22/07 11:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lol, how annoying. freedom fighters for freedom!!


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7440287 - 09/22/07 11:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Because they need to feed the economic engine that buys the equipment that allows our intrepid soldiers the means to defeat the enemy. As opposed to the anti war protesters (Why aren't they over there as human shields?) who would just as soon fellate the enemy and beg their forgiveness.




One of the men arrested at this rally, was serving in Iraq, making himself a human target.




Which rally, the prowar or antiwar one? Which is irrelevant anyway. My response was to the idiotic "if you support the war why aren't you there fighting" meme. Capisce?
Quote:



Lets not forget that the bulk of campaign donations from the United States Military personnel are going to candidates who want to end this war.




Really? And yet they overwhelmingly support staying until the job is done.
Quote:



Are they all domestic terrorists?




What are you talking about? Who?
Quote:




Seeing this new law in writing is one thing. If that video is seeing it being enforced in action, then, times have changed in America.




What new law? I haven't seen the video, nor will I, and you seem incapable of finding a real report, so I can only assume that there is nothing here. You're making a big deal out of the cops not answering their questions. Tough, they don't have to. At any rate, you continue to blather on with zero information, just your ingrained hatred of police, and some fabricated notion of what they were being arrested for. This is Code Pink, home of St Cindy of the Ditch Sheehan, who has chosen to become a professional arrestee. Your dudgeon is farcical.
Quote:



zap, what goes through your mind, when you hear that the Islamic terrorist LOVE this war because they are watching it...

erode away American freedoms and liberties,

stall the economy because people are afraid to spend.

kill and injury our military

run us into obscene national debt

and divide us on the issue?

They are winning their goals and will for as long as we keep sending troops, instead of diplomats there.

Edit- typo




Are you a willing dupe or an accidental dupe? Hey gettinjiggy what do you think when the terrorists start spouting the left talking points like parrots? They know their best friends are what used to be called "Useful Idiots". What do I think when they start saying that stuff? That they can read and have an at least rudimentary understanding of the value of PR and antiwar moles. Osama rambling about US tax rates was just precious. You are being used.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7440613 - 09/22/07 02:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Which rally, the prowar or antiwar one?  Which is irrelevant anyway.  My response was to the idiotic "if you support the war why aren't you there fighting" meme.  Capisce?




I already understood that. Kotik made that argument. Capice? :wink:


Quote:

Really?  And yet they overwhelmingly support staying until the job is done.




Source?

Quote:

Quote:

Are they all domestic terrorists?




What are you talking about?  Who?




U.S. Military who financially support candidates wanting to stop this war, and those personnel and vets who actively are protesting it.



Quote:

What new law? 




It's the quoted section in my first post.

Quote:

I haven't seen the video, nor will I, and you seem incapable of finding a real report, so I can only assume that there is nothing here




I can't find one if it doesn't exist, and I'd like to since I want this cleared up for myself. The video shows about 5 people being arrested. Under the new law, you can be arrested without charge, and the charge and arrest, can become secrets of the state. The fact that I, nor anyone else, can find a report, makes it all the more possible, that these arrests were made under the Patriot Acts domestic terrorism laws.


Quote:

You're making a big deal out of the cops not answering their questions.  Tough, they don't have to


.

Well yes. I said I was wondering what anyone knew or thought about this being a Patriot Act arrest. Under it's law, no charge has to be made. Seuss, said, they can remain silent on that for up to 48 hours in some states. This incident is more then 48 hrs old and still nothing is turning up- not even at code pinks site, and they post everything. Yet these arrests are not there. It's strange.


Quote:

At any rate, you continue to blather on with zero information, just your ingrained hatred of police




Woahhhhhhhhhh. I never said I hated the police. I am very concerned about what Bush has been adding to the Patriot Act.


Quote:

and some fabricated notion of what they were being arrested for




Can't fabricate that because, I don't know what they were being arrested for other then what they said they were doing at the time they were arrested. Nothing else to go on. I am asking through this thread if anyone knows what the hell happened there?

Quote:

This is Code Pink, home of St Cindy of the Ditch Sheehan, who has chosen to become a professional arrestee.  Your dudgeon is farcical.




Not sure what that has to do with anything. Sheehan doesn't get a reaction out of me one way or another.


Quote:

Are you a willing dupe or an accidental dupe?




Since the Americans are playing into terrorist hands, I'd say, anyone going along with this " ooh I'm scared game" is being played hard. Terrorists scare people to get them to do what they want. Look at the dog show hoops this nation has jumped in response to 9/11. Who is holding the power leashes here?

Giuliani and Bush, were not capable of preventing the attacks on the WTC or Pentagon. Why do have any confidence in them for the future?

I give fear of Islamic radical terrorists, no thought. Drunk drivers on the road, and all the crap they poison our water, air and food with, is more of a threat I feel I have to contend with. Any American can put a bullet in my head. I'm more concerned with the INSTABILITY of this nation, way before I am that of Iraq or terrorists from abroad threats.




 
Quote:

Hey gettinjiggy  what do you think when the terrorists start spouting the left talking points like parrots?




Example?

Quote:

They know their best friends are what used to be called "Useful Idiots".




Careful going there.  Remember that the Bush's and Bin Ladens are tight friends. :lol:


Quote:

What do I think when they start saying that stuff?  That they can read and have an at least rudimentary understanding of the value of PR and antiwar moles.  Osama rambling about US tax rates was just precious.




I'm not convinced that he said those things if you are referring to his latest supposed video release. I don't trust Al Queda or our Government to not being pulling hoaxes.

There is a lot of reason for the CFR group- which is made up of Dem's and reps alike,  to want see this economy crash. It's the perfect intro into why we will need the PSP aka NAU to save the day for us. 

Quote:

you are being used.




I obviously see it the other way zappa. The point of terrorism, is to get people to do what they want through the use of fear. By showing we fear them, we have giving up freedoms and civil rights, spent an unrepresented FORTUNE, in the name of defence against these people with "rudimentary reading skills" and needlessly sacrificed the lives of 5,000 soldiers and got another 50,000 injured.

Knee jerk reactions to fear can be costly and deadly in themselves.

It's simple for me-

I have always been for non interventionist foreign policy which is mostly why I always voted Green, and am switching to Republican just to vote for Paul. 

The creators of the Constitution warned against Empire building. They were great and highly educated students of history, and said, it would lead to our ruin like it did with the Roman Empire. They were being rational and logical, as you can only stretch your resources so far, until you snap and go bust.

Screw securing Middle east oil. We shouldve been on alternative energy sources, decades ago, and would be now if it weren't for the subsidies.

It's costing us far to much, to keep bases in the middle east to secure oil and protect Israel. It makes no sense to me other then to help those profiting from it.

edit- had to fix a quote bar


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/22/07 02:11 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution out loud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7440761 - 09/22/07 02:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I made out the name of one of the people arrested from the video tape. It was Leah Bolger, 20 year Navy Vet.

I launched another web search looking for what she was charged with in this incident.

I found her blogs and news reports on all of her other protest arrests. Nothing on this one. I did find her phone number and e-mail address though. I called her and got the machine (cute little kid on the machine) I also just sent her an e-mail asking what the charge was for this one and wanting to know if she was out now. I'll let you all know if I get a response.

Doing the search, I found elsewhere that groups actually have a "Days of Remembrance for the Disappeared"- those U.S. citizens arrested for protesting who were never seen or heard from again.

Looks like my question was answered anyway.:crazy:


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Arrested for reading the U.S. Constitution outloud, in a public park, at a pro war rally. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7441004 - 09/22/07 04:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the Patriot Act defines 'domestic terrorists' as anyone that challenges the policies of government administration especially anti-war demonstrators.

that would be a lie.


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* President Bush taking questions from the public? TheHateCamel 425 2 03/05/03 01:50 PM
by psilo25
* New Constitutional Amendment
( 1 2 3 all )
rommstein2001 1,903 42 06/09/03 01:50 AM
by Strumpling

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