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OfflineROX
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Blind people + hallucinogens
    #7429431 - 09/19/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This is something that's been killing me for many weeks now. Would someone who's blind and under the influence of psychedelics have um... visuals? Like CEV's? I mean there's no way we can know, but theoretically, do you think it would be possible, or do you know someone who's blind and tripped (pun unintended)? Because, since there's so many reports of color blind persons seeing colors while tripping, I think that one could indeed "see" when blind when tripping.

What do you think?


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Offlinesmoke40s
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7429441 - 09/19/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I am pretty sure they would have CEVs.
From what i have experienced/understand, CEVs dont really have to do anything with having eyes as much as they do not having that sense to bother you. Thats why isolation tanks make trips really intense. Our senses keep us in reality. etc etc...


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InvisibleRobMarley420
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7429444 - 09/19/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I've always wondered about that too. If a person was born blind and has never seen anything but black their whole life, would they have any closed eye visuals or would they see any colors?


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Offlineopensaysme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: RobMarley420]
    #7429463 - 09/19/07 06:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i have always though about this. i've decided on dosing the first blind person i run into, man woman or child. :eek:


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OfflineSmellyMushroom
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: opensaysme]
    #7429506 - 09/19/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Now that's a good question.
I guess people who were born bling wouldn't see much,
but as for those who became blind by accident, I bet they can see patterns and colors.

We should ask.


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OfflineKeff
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: SmellyMushroom]
    #7429542 - 09/19/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

In neuroscience, there's a principle: use it or lose it. It'd be interesting to discover what the effects of hallucinogens are on individuals who have not developed any visual cortex at all. Problem is though, how could the individual convey what they are experiencing if they have no frame of reference... far out.


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Keff]
    #7429858 - 09/19/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

ya id say they do see stuff
also do u think when u see colors u have never seen be4
is it because our pupils are so dilated that our visible spectrum is increased
or is it all in our minds and those colors are normal for the human eye


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Offlineboxcarguy07
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Keff]
    #7429874 - 09/19/07 08:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, it'd be so weird... they would have no words to express what they were experiencing, and even if you were standing right next to them, it's not like you could say "See how it's different from what you usually see? Those are colors!" because

1. The word see has no real meaning to them
2. They would have no way to distinguish color from shapes, texture, etc.
3. You have no way of knowing if they're seeing colors in the first place.


It just goes to show just how much our senses shape our reality. Very heavy stuff


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:musicnote:Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.:musicnote:


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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7429881 - 09/19/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well, when you dream.. are you watching the dream play out on the back of your eyelids?

Im sure theyve got to have some sort of hallucinations, wouldnt be anywhere near the same as ours though.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Acyl]
    #7429885 - 09/19/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I remember reading somewhere an article about this. It was pretty interesting... What would be really interesting is what would happen if you gave a blind person a high dose of DMT?


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Offlineboxcarguy07
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Coaster]
    #7429888 - 09/19/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
ya id say they do see stuff
also do u think when u see colors u have never seen be4
is it because our pupils are so dilated that our visible spectrum is increased
or is it all in our minds and those colors are normal for the human eye




Of course I have no real knowledge on the subject, but I'd be willing to say that if someone says they saw a color they've never seen before it was either just in his mind and that it was a normal color, but so bright and vivid and lively that he thinks he's never seen it... Oooor that person is not seeing a color at all, but something else. What it might be, I don't know. Perhaps a result of synesthaesia (sp?) or perhaps something completely out of this world


--------------------
:musicnote:Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.:musicnote:


:psychsplit:"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
            -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:psychsplit:


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: boxcarguy07]
    #7429950 - 09/19/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It sucks because no blind person who has tripped is going to be able to post here:tongue:


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InvisibleTaharka
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7429955 - 09/19/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It would also be interesting to know (and maybe we can even find out here at the Shroomery) if deaf people "hear" a "tone" when smoking DMT.


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Taharka]
    #7429969 - 09/19/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

How come there were never any tests done with hallucinogens and blind and/or deaf people?


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InvisibleTripityDooDaDay
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: boxcarguy07]
    #7429981 - 09/19/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My mom has been blind for most of her life but not all. I can say don't waste your time wondering about any but the born blind as, at over 30 years of blindness, she can still remember and relate to seeing. Even growing up with a blind person I can't begin to comprehend what it must be like to have been born blind. I know other senses are heightened in attempt to overcome that disability so they must sense something in the place of sight that we can't comprehend. I too have often wondered what replaces the visuals in their trips. Maybe just more mind fuck? I dunno. Visuals are the lesser important part of my trips anyway.


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InvisibleTripityDooDaDay
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: TripityDooDaDay]
    #7429997 - 09/19/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It sucks because no blind person who has tripped is going to be able to post here






Sure they can. Download a demo of JAWS screen reader. My mom uses her computer daily.


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InvisibleTripityDooDaDay
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: TripityDooDaDay]
    #7430011 - 09/19/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sure somewhere, sometime, someone has done a study on born blinds hallucinating. Never looked into it before though I've thought of it. I will though.


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: TripityDooDaDay]
    #7430130 - 09/19/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I have known a blind man who said he saw colors when he was on shrooms.

-Graham


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Offlineboxcarguy07
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7430212 - 09/19/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Was he blind from birth or did he become blind sometime in his life?


--------------------
:musicnote:Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.:musicnote:


:psychsplit:"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
            -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:psychsplit:


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7430271 - 09/19/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

people that go blind, when they take tussin they get bombarded with colors colors that that cant see since they lost their vision


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: thedudenj]
    #7430335 - 09/19/07 10:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

kinda off topic but I've read of people who have been color blind all their life being able to see color while on lsd. must be wild to see color for the first time.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7431130 - 09/20/07 05:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I mean there's no way we can know,




why not? They're blind, not mute.


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Offlineopensaysme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: unbeliever]
    #7431193 - 09/20/07 05:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

people who are color blind dont just see shades of grey, they just have trouble distinguishing some colors from other colors. for example, a lot of times they wont see any difference in a dark blue jacket and a black jacket, or they will not notice orange lines in a red shirt.


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: opensaysme]
    #7431195 - 09/20/07 05:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

opensaysme said:
people who are color blind dont just see shades of grey, they just have trouble distinguishing some colors from other colors. for example, a lot of times they wont see any difference in a dark blue jacket and a black jacket, or they will not notice orange lines in a red shirt.




yes I know... which is just as bad as not seeing color at all. If you can't distinguish orange from red then which is which?


Edited by THEBats (09/20/07 05:42 AM)


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: THEBats]
    #7431224 - 09/20/07 06:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Theres been LONG discussions on this before. And plenty of them goto search, and click psychedelic experice, then click main posts. Now type in blind, your gunna get tons of responses.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: implee]
    #7431281 - 09/20/07 06:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

If they can hear, I'd say most definatley.

Sounds/tones are really just expressions of mathematics. I think those tones could/would be converted into the colour equivelent of that sound. Basically, aspects of relativity of the outer and inner stimuli would be converted into colours.


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InvisibleRobMarley420
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: opensaysme]
    #7431482 - 09/20/07 09:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

opensaysme said:
people who are color blind dont just see shades of grey, they just have trouble distinguishing some colors from other colors. for example, a lot of times they wont see any difference in a dark blue jacket and a black jacket, or they will not notice orange lines in a red shirt.




That's true. I'm partially color blind and one time I stole a watch that I though was white but it turned out to be light pink, another time I bought a watch that I thought was grey but it turned out to be brown, and another time I bought a pair of snowboarding pants that I thought were grey but they turned out to be light blue. :confused: Maybe I should do all my shopping while tripping on acid so i can tell what color everything really is. :lol:


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InvisibleTTT
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7431506 - 09/20/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
If they can hear, I'd say most definatley.

Sounds/tones are really just expressions of mathematics. I think those tones could/would be converted into the colour equivelent of that sound. Basically, aspects of relativity of the outer and inner stimuli would be converted into colours.



Beat me to it.


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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: TTT]
    #7432171 - 09/20/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

People who are born blind will not see colors, if could I remember where I read the article I would link it, but I can't. Mainly, and visuals you get, and colors you see are all from memory. You simply cannot see something you have never seen before, your brain would not even know these colors exist (we're strictly speaking born blind), so they could not be presented in front of you.


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Offlineblacksun
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Bernackums]
    #7433297 - 09/20/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah but did your brain know about different dimensions(or something similar) before you took psychedelics?

people with blindness use touch to create a sort of visual image in their mind right, so if they took psychedelics, and touched things... madness

Imagine all your other senses, already heightened, going through the psychedelic machine....  :hotidea:

peace  :hiltonsex:


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Offlineopensaysme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: blacksun]
    #7433498 - 09/20/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

ha is that a nightvision shot from "one night in paris"?


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OfflineAnotherDimension
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: opensaysme]
    #7434920 - 09/21/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

opensaysme said:
people who are color blind dont just see shades of grey, they just have trouble distinguishing some colors from other colors. for example, a lot of times they wont see any difference in a dark blue jacket and a black jacket, or they will not notice orange lines in a red shirt.




I don't think this is true at all. I mean, if you have ever taken a color blindness test, they are not trying to have you distinguish between similar colors. In fact, if I remember my psychology correctly, you have RGB type sensors in your eyes, and cones and rods. So, it is more like green and red both appear as the same color to a color-blind person.

In fact, one fellow student in my class was actually colorblind. So everyone asked him what it looked like. Green or red? It is the same color, he replied. It is just a color, I mean, you have to adjust your frame of reference as someone already explained. But color blindness is not an inability to distinguish between close shades of the same color, rather between radically different colors.

Edit: Forgot to mention, there are different types of color blindness. So just because someone can't distinguish between a certain pair of colors, does NOT mean that there are 'totally' color blind. There are merely different type of comparisons that cannot be made. So being colorblind in one aspect does not limit color differentiation in another aspect.


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Edited by AnotherDimension (09/21/07 12:13 AM)


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OfflineOMniversal
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7435259 - 09/21/07 03:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This thought has tripped me out as well. From what I know, I would say an important factor would be if the person was born blind or lost vision after a period of sight. In the first case, I dont know how developped if at all the visual cortex would be, as previously mentioned, it is currently believed in neuroscience that during early critical years, if areas of the brain such as a sensory organ arent used, the ability will be for the most part lost, with the organ or area usually becoming used for another function, I believe. Guessing that may be a reason why blind people have other senses heightened.

As far as full on hallucinations, I dont know if someone born blind would be able to experience them without proper visual cortex function. Someone who has lost sight after a period of life with vision im sure would be more likely to have visual hallucinations.

Ive glanced at some research pointing out that the brain may have elementary basic geometric visuals almost built in somehow, perhaps explaining why so many people share some similar hallucinations, but I believe thats only for basic shapes and geometric patterns, perhaps revealing some sort of symmetry of the brains wiring.

I think finding out what the deal with the development of the visual cortex is in blind persons is key here as tripping and visuals are more perceptual and inside the mind rather than sensory (although that is of course a big component that interacts with perception).

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
If they can hear, I'd say most definatley.

Sounds/tones are really just expressions of mathematics. I think those tones could/would be converted into the colour equivelent of that sound. Basically, aspects of relativity of the outer and inner stimuli would be converted into colours.




Interesting idea, but how and where does the sound get converted into a color equivelant? I have experienced this with the synesthesia of tripping, but if someone has never seen a color and doesnt have a fully developed visual cortex, would this possible? From what I know, color is what our cortex tells us about the visual light info coming through our eyes from the little slice of the electromagnetic spectrum that is visible to the human eye, specifically our rods and cones (forget the exact range). Just basing it off what I know, someone please correct me if Im wrong, still learning!


A google search about hallucination and blindness has some good stuff that seems worth reading further into!

Hmm I think I will inquire about this with my biopsych teacher tomorrow.:)


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OfflineXZzyXyzZX
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7436605 - 09/21/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

lets say people that are born blind have a sense of vision equal to 0. 0 magnified or warped is still zeo because you cant change nothing. so i think that they dont even miss or realize or grasp what vision it, its not blackness, its nothingness, it doesnt exist to them. so probably they wont have any visuals at all. but i bet that their other senses which are more developed will have hallucinations of their own and alot bigger mind trip. but we cant ever know for sure, just my opinion.


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OfflineBrandNoob
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: AnotherDimension]
    #7447252 - 09/24/07 10:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

AnotherDimension said:
Quote:

opensaysme said:
people who are color blind dont just see shades of grey, they just have trouble distinguishing some colors from other colors. for example, a lot of times they wont see any difference in a dark blue jacket and a black jacket, or they will not notice orange lines in a red shirt.




I don't think this is true at all.




As an individual who passed 7 out of 15 tests on his last colorblindness test, I can tell you that opensaysme is exactly right. One hundred percent. The type of colorblindness that your classmate has is a very common one. It is called "red-green colorblindness", it is attached to the "y" chromosome, and one out of every three males have it to some degree. That means one out of every six people. This is not the colorblindness I have. I have the one opensaysme is talking about. And it's exactly like that.

Yes, I saw your edit: I just have some personal experience to throw in here. Oh - and tripping makes me see funny colors, but doesn't help my colorblindness - if that makes sense.

Now let's go dose the blind!


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Offlineopensaysme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: BrandNoob]
    #7448648 - 09/24/07 06:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Just imagine some blind guy walking down the street, some shroomery member goes up to him and says "hey its hot out, would you like some of this water". Could you imagine being blind and getting dosed while out in public without knowing it. Oh man, i can't say i would be able to do that to someone, its way too horrible. But i would sure as heck love to see a video of the guy afterwards hahahaha..... ahh im goin to hell for that


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: opensaysme]
    #7449264 - 09/24/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

opensaysme said:
Could you imagine being blind and getting dosed while out in public without knowing it.



And thats funny.....how?


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Offlineopensaysme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: Robo]
    #7449372 - 09/24/07 09:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i was being an asshole, joking around, whetever you may..... i know how horrible this would be, thats why i said "i can't say i would be able to do that to someone, its way too horrible"


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InvisibleTripityDooDaDay
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: opensaysme]
    #7449465 - 09/24/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My mom is blind and I took no offense.

I got what you were saying.

Then again my mom is a total bitch and I can't deny having fantasized about dosing her. I'm not just saying that because she is my mom. Everyone who knows her cuts her slack because of all she has been through but, there is no way around it. She is a total bitch. She has five siblings and non of them will even talk to her.

I love her though because she is my mom. She is also the most paranoid person I know when it comes to drugs. Any drugs. Secretly dosing her would be getting two birds easily. Three actually, maybe more. She is also an extreme right wing Christian of the evangelical sort. I would never do it though. She has her life and I have mine.

This thread has been most interesting to me but only in that I see others wondering what I always have.


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: ROX]
    #7449605 - 09/24/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

How could this question be "killing you for many weeks?"
It is asked bi-weekly. Seems like this fucking question is always on this damn board.


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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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OfflineStonedTestBunys1
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: mecreateme]
    #7450040 - 09/24/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mecreateme said:
How could this question be "killing you for many weeks?"
It is asked bi-weekly. Seems like this fucking question is always on this damn board.




chill out bro maybe he didnt read those posts, is it wrong for someone to seek an answer for a question they are curious about?


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there they are!


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Blind people + hallucinogens [Re: StonedTestBunys1]
    #7450901 - 09/25/07 08:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I am chill, bro. My speech was animated not angry.
Just pointing out how this question is a constant floater on this board.
Guy must not have been lurking for very long.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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