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 vivid
Stranger
 
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 1,888
Loc: Berkeley, California
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 Signs and Omens, and their validity 
#742916 - 07/12/02 09:21 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Signs and omens are pretty much dismissed by the scientific community and society at large. They are dismissed as random acts, coincidence etc. Most of us, on the other hand, have noticed how strange things seem to occur and appear when on a psychedelic journey, or other spiritual trek for that matter.
Today I was witness to such a incident. My friend had smoked approximately 15mg of 5Meo-DMT, and we were walking around inside of a elementry school when somehting caught our attention. On the ground, on their backs, lay two bird hatchlings, with no shells around. They were both alive and there were no trees or nests around that they could have fallen from. Now this is a clear example of strange things happening... yet it could be easily dismissed as freak coincidence.
But as I thought about it I saw another possible answer. I think the pivotal misconception about omens is that the event that was a sign would not have happened if the person it affected was not present, or that it happened in direct relationship to a persons presence. I think omens are more a result of a life interacting with the world. When we ground ourselves spiritually, we are more in tune with the cosmos and the sway of life. Here, while we are participating in a more concious way with the universe that it responds and we interact.
I think the world shows us the bizarre while we are spiritually heightened not only because we are then "looking for it" but because we are interacting with the world and it is communicating back to us.
I can't think of a better reason some of the strangest things are seen and experienced while on psychedelics.
Comments? 
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RebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
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 Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: vivid]
#742932 - 07/12/02 09:37 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the world shows us the bizarre while we are spiritually heightened not only because we are then "looking for it" but because we are interacting with the world and it is communicating back to us.
I can't think of a better reason some of the strangest things are seen and experienced while on psychedelics.
My thoughts are that we tend to see "omens" and attach meaning to certain things while we are on pschedelics simply BECAUSE we are on psychedelics. I can't think of a better reason than that.
When we are on psychedelics, we are experiencing reality in a completely different way. Our emotions are heightened, our thought patterns our changed, and we are having a truly unique life experience. When we are in a state like this, it is only natural to attach meaning to certain things and see "omens" like you spoke of. Like you said, we are looking for it.
I think that by seeing something as an omen, we are attaching meaning to the meaningless. Perhaps persistent heartburn could be an omen of an up-and-coming heart attack, but seeing two fledgling birds on the ground doesn't mean a thing. They were simply there, and you simply saw them.
Weird things happen all the time. For some reason we want to attach meaning to weird things because we don't fully understand them. It adds a sort of excitement to our lives.
I'm not saying it's bad to fantasize once in a while though 
I do it quite often myself
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Namaste.
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vivid
Stranger
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 1,888
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: RebelSteve33]
#742937 - 07/12/02 09:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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you missed my point. that more things seem to happen because of the energy we were emitting. I wasn't LOOKING for something wierd to happen, i wasn't even high. If you want to disregard feedback from reality as meaningless, you coul also say that life in iitself is as meaningless as you say our experiences are.
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RebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: vivid]
#742946 - 07/12/02 09:59 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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First of all, I'm not quite sure where you're going with this bird thing. You saw some birds on the ground while your friend was high. How is that an omen?
Also, you say your point is that "more things seem to happen because of the energy we were emitting." What do you mean by this? You guys were emitting more "energy" because your friend was high and having a spiritual experience?
In my opinion, "emitting more energy" (whatever you mean by that) does not have a thing to do with "more things seeming to happen." Once I was sitting on a rock in the middle of the woods, doing absolutely nothing, and four deer walked across the path right in front of me.
I was not emitting any sort of energy, and that was more than what usually happens to me in my daily life. The point is, these sort of things happen all the time. Sometimes you happen to see them, sometimes you don't.
I wasn't insinuating that your experiences were meaningless in any way. You seemed to take what I said as an assault when I was just offering my comments as you had asked. I was merely saying that, in my opinion, looking at something as an "omen" is attaching MORE meaning than that thing really deserves. Perhaps I should have stated it that way.
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Namaste.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: vivid]
#743240 - 07/13/02 06:10 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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They were both alive and there were no trees or nests around that they could have fallen from. Now this is a clear example of strange things happening... yet it could be easily dismissed as freak coincidence.
Coincidence (this word is so abused!) with WHAT?
I was tripping the other day and I saw a penny lying face down on the ground. FACE DOWN! Is that amazing or what?
How you draw a correlary between an unnested bird and 5MEO is beyond me.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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vivid
Stranger
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 1,888
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: RebelSteve33]
#743347 - 07/13/02 07:40 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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obviously our beliefs differ to the point that we cannot carry a constructive conversation. so whatever, lol.
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 Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: vivid]
#743494 - 07/13/02 09:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know what your trying to say but I'm not sure if I can explain it right...
While under certain high-energy states like tripping, I think that the possibilities for things to happen that normally wouldn't is heightened... Not that the world changes to your whim, but rather an interaction or something takes place and increases the chance for novelty. Yeah I can't explain it and it's probably a very illogical belief, but no one's going to change my opinion about it except my own experience. Thankyou.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Adamist]
#743627 - 07/13/02 11:14 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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...but no one's going to change my opinion about it ...
Now that's a pretty close-minded attitude.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Swami]
#743629 - 07/13/02 11:18 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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except my own experience
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Smack31]
#743642 - 07/13/02 11:30 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sure, but people all too frequently completely misinterpret their own experience. This can and has been proven. The experience is not the important part, the interpretation is.
From Carlos Castaneda:
Don Juan: (on omens) Sometimes a crowing flying over your shoulder, is just a crow flying over your shoulder. (not exact quote)
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Swami]
#743761 - 07/13/02 12:48 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hope Carlos Castaneda gave credit to Sigmund ("Sometimes a Cigar is Only a Cigar") Freud.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: ]
#743871 - 07/13/02 02:02 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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And sometimes not.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Adamist]
#743873 - 07/13/02 02:06 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Please elaborate. When is a cigar not a cigar? (or choose the metaphor of your liking).
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Swami]
#743877 - 07/13/02 02:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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when it's full of weed... then it's a blunt! 
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Anonymous
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Smack31]
#744088 - 07/13/02 05:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Blunt"
I like the way you think.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Signs and Omens, and their validity [Re: Swami]
#744247 - 07/13/02 06:41 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Smack already took my reply to the cigar metaphor, so I'll have to use the crow. 
A crow flying over your shoulder could be a sign that a wild bear is about to come upon you and have you for breakfast (the crow could be startled from the bear's prescence and in doing so be showing you the danger) 
hahaha so maybe I'm stretching it a bit, but I just had to say something. Also I wasn't referring strictly to the physical dimension. Hallucinations, dreams, and other states of mind are also highly suspect to "signs and omens".
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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