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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinesubconsciousness
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Posts: 38
Loc: inside the mothership
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
My thoughts about the afterlife
    #7426031 - 09/18/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm beginning to realize that my constant obsessing about what to "believe" about what happens to us after we die. . . is just another attachment to let go of. When you focus so much on what happens after you die, you forget about what is important in the here and now. We will all die someday, so why not just accept it? Admittedly, I am not entirely accepting of my own mortality. But I think that the whole concept of the afterlife implies that we are special in the grand scheme of things . . . and we aren't.

What do you guys think?


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times."
--Bill Hicks

"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
--P.J. O'Rourke


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OfflineLinja
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 475
Loc: Melbourne Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7426072 - 09/18/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I agree, I've had multiple "revelations" that all the time I'm spending thinking about the after-life is a waste of the time I have in this life. I don't know what happens after death, assuming I die... but whatever it is, the only thing I do know is that I'm alive now, so I should make the most of it.

Speaking of which, why am I discussing the afterlife with you when I could be out there smoking ice and catching/spreading all sorts of viruses with prostitutes?

Peace out bro.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7426285 - 09/18/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What anyone thinks isn't quite as important as what you think.

With that said, I agree with you. The desire for permanence is strong. Believing in the continuation of yourself after physical death is one manifestation of that. What there is after the point of physical death no one knows. And no one could know. For that matter, no one can even know what tomorrow will bring, nevermind what death will bring. So just be present. Open up, become vulnerable and glide with the winds of change.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7426677 - 09/19/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

On a certain level, I feel un-special. Dust in the wind. All I know and have seen is simply memories waiting to be erased by death. But on another level, I am a highly refined product of the universe. I have all the purpose the universe intended me to have. What was once dirt is now an experience of itself. It seems that I am the universe's will, and that seems kind of special.

It's the difference between "my" desire to live, and my cells desire to live. Each cell, just a network of atoms, energy arranged in complex patterns. And yet they are the ones singing when I'm in a good mood, not me. I just experience a state of no worry when they are happy. I'm here for them instead of the other way around. So, it seems that the intention of a cell, to live and thrive, is much closer to universal intelligence than my ego is. After all, it is the cells which make each other. They seem to have a sense of purpose with no questions asked or needed.

I believe the little I will disintegrate into an unknowable form (death). Somehow, I don't even think the little I is actually alive, that's just a concept. The big I is unconcerned. Death is a joke. The atomic energy will separate and begin new experiences.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Posts: 14,279
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Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7426973 - 09/19/07 05:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Not being special does not mean not being an integral part of. What is more, beings who can transcend space-time and evolve methods of traveling in space-time to other physical worlds are much 'more' integral to the universe becoming conscious than less creative beings who seem only to recapitulate the four 'F's':
Feeding, Fighting, Fleeing and Mating. :wink:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7427893 - 09/19/07 12:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hehe, the word 'special' again.
I suppose to look at its origin translation then it does make more sense, Imho. Because then it looses all evaluation of better or more, but only describes a form of difference, which one can reinterpret and evaluate in different contexts to see, every special thing is important in some special context in some special way :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #7428928 - 09/19/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:What there is after the point of physical death no one knows. And no one could know. For that matter, no one can even know what tomorrow will bring, nevermind what death will bring. So just be present. Open up, become vulnerable and glide with the winds of change.



Thank you for that. :wink:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Offlinesubconsciousness
Stranger


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 38
Loc: inside the mothership
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7430522 - 09/19/07 11:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

A friend once told me that if you become perfectly accepting of your mortality, then you have nothing to fear in death. And if you have nothing to fear of death, nothing in life will bother you either.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times."
--Bill Hicks

"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
--P.J. O'Rourke


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7431921 - 09/20/07 11:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

subconsciousness said:
I'm beginning to realize that my constant obsessing about what to "believe" about what happens to us after we die. . . is just another attachment to let go of.  When you focus so much on what happens after you die, you forget about what is important in the here and now. We will all die someday, so why not just accept it?  Admittedly, I am not entirely accepting of my own mortality.  But I think that the whole concept of the afterlife implies that we are special in the grand scheme of things . . . and we aren't. 

What do you guys think?




Totally agree.:thumbup: But... a different kind of focus on death can be a great support to living. If one can find a way to really grok that death can happen at any time and there are no guarantees of any afterlife for the self one might just live a little more  fully.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7432067 - 09/20/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Death is the road to awe




--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #7432078 - 09/20/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Death is the road to____ (fill in the blank). :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7432105 - 09/20/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Have you seen The Fountain (came out last year around this time I think)?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #7432337 - 09/20/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

One of my favorite movies.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Along with Van Helsing.:monkeydance::rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
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Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: subconsciousness]
    #7432361 - 09/20/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

subconsciousness said:
I'm beginning to realize that my constant obsessing about what to "believe" about what happens to us after we die. . . is just another attachment to let go of. When you focus so much on what happens after you die, you forget about what is important in the here and now. We will all die someday, so why not just accept it? Admittedly, I am not entirely accepting of my own mortality. But I think that the whole concept of the afterlife implies that we are special in the grand scheme of things . . . and we aren't.

What do you guys think?




I agree with you. One of the few ways in which I feel religion is harmful is that it convinces many people to give up experiences and joys they may have in this life for the promise of future paradise.

Part of me wants to say, "Well, it's good to comfort people, and it can give them strength." Maybe it's true, sometimes, and maybe the total happiness achieved in some individuals' lives may be increased by religion.

But I think the real joy of life is in the mystery; not the mystery of what's to come when you're dead, but of what already is, and what has been, and what will be in the real world. The universe we're in is too amazing to be dwarfed by some paradise in the sky. Sure, it's full of pain and suffering, but would life have the same incredible force and energy without it? I don't think I am alone in saying that heaven does not sound appealing, and it's not just because a lot of people suggest I wouldn't be able to drink, gamble and masturbate.

Personally, I don't know whether my consciousness can somehow go on when I die, but all signs do point to "no", as the eight-ball says. For the same reasons I can toss most mythological aspects of religion into the aesthetic-fallacy bin, I can say it does not seem likely that there is anything after this, that there is any magic spark in my brain that will float off into the aether to join in some kind of cosmic all-eternity karaoke binge, or whatever your personal vision of the afterlife might be. The material world holds up--it surprises you, sure, but its surprises make sense, as long as you're willing to look for it and learn from it. The world of magic and gods and heavenly paradise would make for an interesting experience, but I am not going to bet the kids' college fund on it being there for me when I go.

I don't really mind. I'm out here to enjoy this while I can. There's something to be said for a sort of tempered, well-considered hedonism. There are big, complicated pleasures, and little, shallow ones, and I'm going to fill my life with all of them while I still can.


--------------------
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7432400 - 09/20/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Great post.


I agree with you. One of the few ways in which I feel religion is harmful is that it convinces many people to give up experiences and joys they may have in this life for the promise of future paradise.
Amen to that.:lol: Also many give up the joys of living because of fear of eternal punishment.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
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Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
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Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7432489 - 09/20/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, leave it to Christians to bring in the stick when you've got a perfectly effective carrot operation going.


--------------------
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7435150 - 09/21/07 02:29 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Just wanted to say, great post, Figgus.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Offlinesubconsciousness
Stranger


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 38
Loc: inside the mothership
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: My thoughts about the afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7437910 - 09/21/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

subconsciousness said:
I'm beginning to realize that my constant obsessing about what to "believe" about what happens to us after we die. . . is just another attachment to let go of.  When you focus so much on what happens after you die, you forget about what is important in the here and now. We will all die someday, so why not just accept it?  Admittedly, I am not entirely accepting of my own mortality.  But I think that the whole concept of the afterlife implies that we are special in the grand scheme of things . . . and we aren't. 

What do you guys think?




Totally agree.:thumbup: But... a different kind of focus on death can be a great support to living. If one can find a way to really grok that death can happen at any time and there are no guarantees of any afterlife for the self one might just live a little more  fully.




Exactly...I sometimes think of the things I would do if a doctor gave me two weeks to live.  I probably wouldn't have the same worries, hangups, or angst about life, and my priorities would change drastically.  You gave me some good food for thought, I should get in the mindset that there is no guarantee that I will be alive tomorrow, so I will live life to the fullest now.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times."
--Bill Hicks

"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
--P.J. O'Rourke


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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