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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance
    #7424061 - 09/18/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Here are a few ways to tell that a poster is unsure of his/her position:

1. Misquoting

2. Strawman arguments

3. Exaggeration or outright lying

4. Use of anecdotes

5. Personalisms

6. Emotionalism (usually anger)


There are many more, but these are some of the main red flags that the poster is scared and doubts that the facts are able speak for themselves.

Remember, The Truth NEVER need shoring up.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424073 - 09/18/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:whoa: This is all news to me. Thanks for posting.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424088 - 09/18/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

According to your criteria, EVERYONE here (including yourself) is simply full of shit.


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Offlinecrumblebum
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Registered: 04/24/07
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Middleman]
    #7424095 - 09/18/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Mostly those are just logical informal fallacies.

Logical informal fallacies don't mean that someone dosen't believe the stance that their taking, just that they aren't very good at defending it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Middleman]
    #7424097 - 09/18/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not so sure about Veritas and Diploid. As for the rest of us that could well be the case.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBooby
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424098 - 09/18/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I thought it was natural to see people get emotional about issues they believe in.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Booby]
    #7424102 - 09/18/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It may be natural but that don't make it healthy or skillful.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424110 - 09/18/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Here are a few ways to tell that a poster is unsure of his/her position:

1. Misquoting

2. Strawman arguments

3. Exaggeration or outright lying

4. Use of anecdotes

5. Personalisms

6. Emotionalism (usually anger)


There are many more, but these are some of the main red flags that the poster is scared and doubts that the facts are able speak for themselves.

Remember, The Truth NEVER need shoring up.




This is ironically self-referential.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: crumblebum]
    #7424116 - 09/18/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly those are just logical informal fallacies.





In some cases. DELIBERATELY taking a quote out of context to change meaning, lying and exaggeration are certainly not merely logical fallacies.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424124 - 09/18/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

^^^ Projecting.


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Offlinecrumblebum
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424133 - 09/18/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hence the word "Mostly". And even when people are deliberately misquoting or misrepresenting data, that dosen't suggest that they don't believe what they are arguing. They rationalize using false data because it serves to prove what they believe is true anyhow.

So they're still just crap debaters. How they debate dosen't impact on or reflect what they actually believe.


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Offlinecrumblebum
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: crumblebum]
    #7424168 - 09/18/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Really, the only circumstances under which someone does not believe the stance they are taking is in instances of playing "Devil's Advocate", trolling/flaming for responses, and law. And in any of those cases, what they actually believe is irrelevent to their method of argumentation.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: crumblebum]
    #7424179 - 09/18/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup: It think so.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424200 - 09/18/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I strongly disagree, and I cannot believe that you would post something so fascist and suppressive!  I'm sure that Hitler would have approved. :thumbdown:

First of all, when you said:

Quote:

There are many more, but these are some of the main red flags that the poster is incontinent, mentally retarded and doubts that the facts are able speak for themselves.




How, exactly, is one's ability to refrain from spontaneous urination related to surety in one's argument?  I mean, you might as well have posted:

:piss:

Additionally, your claim that Strawman arguments are indicative of uncertainty is absurd.  Eliminating this debate tactic would result in a disruption of the time-space continuum, and your argument against it points to your being an agent of chaos and destruction.  :thumbdown:

In fact, your entire post reminds me of the time I was at band camp, and the camp counselor for our group told us to shut up and go to sleep, already.  From that moment forward, we knew that adults were not to be trusted, because they wanted to stop our enjoyment of living.

To sum up, you are a doo-doo head, and I am furious with you. :mad: :razz:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Veritas]
    #7424208 - 09/18/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:rofl2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: crumblebum]
    #7424240 - 09/18/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

There is 'believing' and then there is 'wanting to believe'.

Years ago I had a thread about the ABSOLUTE BEST EVIDENCE for UFOs. Give it to me in order, I requested. When several of the top cases were effectively deconstructed, all of the above tactits were in evidence instead of real counterpoint.

That points to the 'wanting to believe' camp.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7424261 - 09/18/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I "want to believe" we aren't all just livestock for their voracious young. :crazy:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Middleman]
    #7424278 - 09/18/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Me too!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Veritas]
    #7424920 - 09/18/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:  :rofl2:  :tongue2:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinekotik
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Re: How to tell when a poster doesn't believe his own stance [Re: Middleman]
    #7425294 - 09/18/07 07:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
According to your criteria, EVERYONE here (including yourself) is simply full of shit.




that was my first reaction as well.

and how one could equate being emotional, with not believing in their stance, is beyond me. Ever heard of religion?


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Edited by kotik (09/18/07 07:36 PM)


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