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Offlinekotik
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Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np)
    #7421238 - 09/17/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)



That's right america, there is no conspiracy. turn on your ESPN, crack your beer, "get your crunk on" and just chill out. Nothing to see here, just crazy people asking crazy questions.

At least he wasn't wearing baggy pants.

This happened today, Sept 17 2007.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinemikebart101
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421295 - 09/17/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I can't...LOL


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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Offlinepabloescabar
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421299 - 09/17/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

thats the United States of Amerika for ya


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421331 - 09/17/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

He wasnt tasered for asking about skull & bones at all. He was tasered for fighting with police officers. Where I come from that will earn you a bullet, not a shock.

I bet they didnt shoot him because hes white. Racist pigs.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421347 - 09/17/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

do you think they wanted to escort him out because they were on strict orders from the highest levels of the skull and bones cabal to remove anyone who asked about the big secret?

no. the police tried to escort him out for creating a disturbance, he physically resisted, and then they tasered him. he could have been asking about anything and the same thing would have happened... he'd be taken away, which i'm sure you'll find is what usually happens and has always happened when you flip out and start hyperventilating and screaming at a public event with a senator on stage.


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: DieCommie]
    #7421360 - 09/17/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I just watched it a second time, that kid is a whiny bitch. Hes yelling about bieng arrested and hes obviously not under arrest. He doesnt have cuffs on, he has not been mirandized, he is not in police custody. Im going to guess that kid has never been arrested in his life.

The only reason to fight with police in his case is if he want to make himself some kind of martyr. I think he got exactly what he wanted, now he gets to play the role of the victim against the big bad man.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wilshire]
    #7421365 - 09/17/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

funny, just happened to be a coincidence that they only tackled him after asking that particular question.

also, i didn't realize it was illegal, and an arrestable offense to ask a question. In other cases like this, especially college campuses, the microphone is cut off, then taken away as another person gets focus. for some reason that made this out of the normal, someone took it personally and saw to it the kid was taught a lesson for asking such an unscripted question in a public forum.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421381 - 09/17/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

p.s. i realize this is probably the most right-winged and anti-conspiracy site on the entire internet, including foxnews forums.  I figured I would post it anyways, just in spite.  :evil:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421384 - 09/17/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

funny, just happened to be a coincidence that they only tackled him after asking that particular question.


No, not at all. Did you watch the video? After asking the question, they try to remove him from the pulpit. Only he after he starts screaming whining, and resisting do they tackle him.

Quote:

also, i didn't realize it was illegal, and an arrestable offense to ask a question.


He wasnt under arrest at all, at first. Just because he starts screaming why are you arresting me doesnt mean he is under arrest. Now once he starts fighting with police officers then he may get arrested.

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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421426 - 09/17/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

He was obviously just trying to be a comedian and start a whole bunch of shit, and it back fired right in his face. You're fucking brain dead if you call this evidence of a "conspiracy."


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421449 - 09/17/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

what the fucking hell!?!?!

...


WHAT!?

that is some fucked up shit


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“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421472 - 09/17/07 09:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

:rofl2:


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:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

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Offlinedirtworshipper
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421493 - 09/17/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)



hmm. a different perspective.
i believe he kinda brought the tasering on himself..
but then again, the cops had NO right to touch him
he had a legitimate question
they rushed in right after they cut his mic off


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“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison

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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: dirtworshipper]
    #7421525 - 09/17/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

no, he didn't have a legitimate question. He was trying to stir trouble and interrupt a serious political discussion by asking ridiculous weighted questions that were hardly relevant.


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421639 - 09/17/07 10:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

he's borderline, but do they really have to cut his mic and sweep him
out of the building like that?

what's the point of speaking at a university if you're just going to
try to sterilize the rapport?

of course there's going to be some yahoo that wants to ask some charged
questions...man up and roll with it.

I don't feel the police had any right to manhandle him that way...he
probably would have gotten his question out, Kerry could have done a
tap dance and that would have been that.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
    #7421692 - 09/17/07 10:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WhiteRabbitt said:
no, he didn't have a legitimate question. He was trying to stir trouble and interrupt a serious political discussion by asking ridiculous weighted questions that were hardly relevant.




therefore... ?

Dogs have hair and are known at times to swim in lakes. They have teeth and breathe air, and sometimes take on odors. Tuna is a type of fish, but that's hardly relevant.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7421809 - 09/17/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Sons of bitches tasered him while he was begging for mercy.

If it was me I'd be glad they tasered me though, more money in the lawsuit.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #7422046 - 09/17/07 11:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If it was me I'd be glad they tasered me though, more money in the lawsuit.

He's not going to win any lawsuit.

He was on private property. When he was asked to leave, he said he wouldn't until he finished asking his questions. When the campus police asked him to leave, he fought them instead of simply leaving and saving himself an arrest.

Had the police subdued the guy without a taser, they might have injured him. Then we'd hear everyone crying police brutality. The reason they use the taser in the first place is to prevent injury to either the police or the suspect.

Whether Kerry is a coward for removing him is another matter, but the police did nothing wrong here.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7422100 - 09/18/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

This kinda reminds me of the UCLA student last year who was tazed in the library for refusing to show ID. THAT incident was extreme, this seemed deserved.

After being tazed, he is asked to stand, and since he is physically unable, they taze him again! And none of the students do anything... :nonono:



http://dailybruin.com/news/2006/nov/15/breaking-news-student-shot-wit/


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:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #7422130 - 09/18/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

This kinda reminds me of the UCLA student last year who was tazed in the library for refusing to show ID.

The UCLA student last year was asked to leave the library (private property) and refused. Only after he refused and became combative was force used.

Again, had the police forced him to leave without using the taser, he might have been injured. By using the taser, they prevent any injuries and still force the guy to leave.

What would you have the police do when someone refuses to leave private property after being asked? Use harsh language?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422348 - 09/18/07 03:30 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)



here's one a bit more complete


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The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7422539 - 09/18/07 06:41 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Man.. if only I weren't on a campus right now I would be able to turn my volume up and actually hear what he's saying. What's he rambling about? Something about buying the 2004 election? Is this kid a republican? If so.. can't they just shut the fuck up and leave Kerry alone. I hate Kerry but the fucker LOST the election. People need to let it go. He poses no threat to 2008.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7422645 - 09/18/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The kid was talking about the fact Kerry won, yet did not fight the loss. He then sort of insinuates that Kerry allowed it to happen, because of this Skull and Bones connection.

The kid is a patriot, not some member of the false left/right paradigm. It takes guts to stand up and ask a politician an unscripted question like that.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422682 - 09/18/07 08:12 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

That looks like so much fun! I'm gonna go ape shit on a politician like that someday... :thumbup:

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Invisiblebreakableweed
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422746 - 09/18/07 08:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Hey!

Don't drag ESPN into this!

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: breakableweed]
    #7422787 - 09/18/07 09:10 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

point being, if the kid's mind was preoccupied with sports and other nonsense, this wouldn't have occurred.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Invisiblebreakableweed
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422792 - 09/18/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe you should get off your pedestal and down on to the baseball field with the rest of us barbarians.

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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422862 - 09/18/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

for all you nay-sayers about this situation, I think the fact that Kerry stepped in and said, "that's alright, let me answer his question." should have been enough, and at this point, the campus police should have stopped and let the situation go.

instead, they place their hands on him (it doesn't even look like they ask him to stop or leave before they place their hands on him) and allow no chance for the situation to calm


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channel your inner Larry David

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: breakableweed]
    #7422886 - 09/18/07 09:46 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

breakableweed said:
Maybe you should get off your pedestal and down on to the baseball field with the rest of us barbarians.




but then what would i have to post about?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422939 - 09/18/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The cops were wrong! He was just a harmless moonbat....

Kerry was a well known hippie protester himself, he should of helped the poor bastard!!!!!!


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblebreakableweed
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7422955 - 09/18/07 10:16 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

uh, vote756.com I guess

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7423193 - 09/18/07 11:14 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

This is unnecessary and barbaric use of force by law enforcement in a civilized society IMHO.

How is it any different then when banned people refuse to leave this forum quietly and come back as puppets making more noise. Do they all deserve to be painfully electrocuted into paralysis through the monitor when they log in?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: demiu5]
    #7423216 - 09/18/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
for all you nay-sayers about this situation, I think the fact that Kerry stepped in and said, "that's alright, let me answer his question." should have been enough, and at this point, the campus police should have stopped and let the situation go. 

instead, they place their hands on him (it doesn't even look like they ask him to stop or leave before they place their hands on him) and allow no chance for the situation to calm




Totally. Some cops get off on that shit.

The kid came on a little too strong though, I'd like to know what Kerry would have said.

My room mate is reading the book the kid is holding - Greg Palast's "Armed Madhouse" :thumbup:

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423276 - 09/18/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Now that I can actually hear what was going on I gotta agree.. that was FUCKED up by the cops. There was no reason for tazing him.. LET alone manhandling him after he got cut off. They didn't even say "let's go". They just immediately grabbed him. He should sue the U of FL police.

If I were there, I would have gotten up and jumped on top of one of those cops in hopes of getting everyone else in their seats to follow my lead.

I live in DC where there's a lot of protests. I was tempted to go down to the war protest this past weekend to work on my photojournalism portfolio... and kicked myself for not going after i heard 150 ppl got arrested. THOSE that got arrested did so because they were jumping a barricade that blocked off the grounds of the capitol (which was stupid to have a demonstration to begin with in front of the capitol on a saturday when NO ONE FROM FUCKING CONGRESS is in there DRRR)... but they got arrested and I really don't care. That's what happens when you tresspass.

It's one thing to get beat down after resisting arrest after trying to storm the capitol.

It's another thing to get manhandled by cops for doing nothing but speaking. They could have just cut the mic off and that would have been in. In fact.. it would have only taken ONE cop to grab that asshole and push him out the door. Yea he WAS an asshoel full of himself but that's our right as Americans to be loud and annoying when we think there's something wrong. The fact that they tried to cut him off in the first place after the first 10 seconds shows what kind of assholes those cops were.

Getting beat down by 10 cops and tazered over and over while you're already subdued. That crowd should have rised up and collectively kicked those cops' asses.

John Kerry should be ashamed of himself for just standing there and letting that happen.

ANd the whole thing about private property is BULLSHIT. Not only was it a PUBLIC FUCKING university, which is funded with TAXPAYER money, but if he was a student and he paid tuition to be there, he damn well deserved to be there.

->Brian

Edited by BrAiN (09/18/07 11:42 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423326 - 09/18/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Although I agree that the cops shouldn't have started it, once they did, the kid got exactly what he deserved. Had he obeyed the police and acted like a mature adult and simply left rather than freaking out like a two year old baby throwing a temper tantrum, then he wouldn't have been tazed. Right or wrong, once the police give you an order, you obey, or you pay the price. Again, I don't think the cops should have stepped in when they did... but what happened next is the kids own stupid fault.

"elp elp I'm bein' opressed!" -Monty Python

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7423343 - 09/18/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you disobey the cops when you know you're doing something wrong, that's one thing. You deserved to get your ass beat then if you don't comply. No doubt.

I see nothing wrong with disobeying a cop when they're being unreasonable. Annoying or not.. he was probably a student paying tuition to that school.. a PUBLIC school.. voicing his opinion in a public place. The cops didn't even give him a warning except for that first attempt to pull him away when he said "I'll ask my question thank you very much". At that point he wasn't even REMOTELY annoying and they only stepped in after he mentioned the word "Black". That first attemp at pulling him away was totally bullshit. And the fact that they immediatly yanked him while John KERRY WAS ANSWERING HIS QUESTION should have told the cops that DRRR.... maybe John Kerry didn't find it unreasonable either that he was asking those questions.

The fact that the crowd turned on him was ridiculous. They cheered him for going on the first part of his rant.. then like redneck WWF fans with mullets they started cheering his ass getting beat. WTF?

If I had been there I would have started chucking books at those cops.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423344 - 09/18/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Oh.. and it's

"elp elp I'm bein' opressed!" :wink:

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423417 - 09/18/07 12:04 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:If I had been there I would have started chucking books at those cops.




:yesnod:

I couldn't agree more with what you said either.
Those piggies never should have laid a finger on him.
He did nothing wrong. (until he started resisting, which never should have happened anyway) Anyone who wouldn't want an honest answer to that question might need to open their eyes and ears.

I bet the police department at that school is catching some shit now...


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: dirtworshipper]
    #7423427 - 09/18/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If I had only seen that first video which was on CNN.. I'd be a little confused or maybe even side the with the cops.

BUT that last video that got posted showed the REAL story. It shows the fact that the cops tried to cut him off the first time the SECOND he said the phrase "Black Voters" only a few seconds into speaking. He seemed fairly calm until the cops started harassing him. I'd be getting pretty heated up if they tried to cut me off from speaking after only a few seconds/

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423445 - 09/18/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Umm Diploid you usually throw handcuff's on someone that's out of line but not freaken taze them. For christ sake's it's not like the guy had a weapon he's holding a freaken book people. Yet neo-con leaders this should somehow constitute the need for a tazer go figure. And to all you people backing the cop's up on this one you should feel ashamed because as far as I'm concerned this type of stuff could be stopped if the public would have more of strong voice against it. Is it any wonder to any of you why this guy was protesting? Mabye could it have something to do with the fact that are police force is willing to taze people on the ground repeatedly after he was already apprehended that my friends is abuse and torture I really don't care what anyone say's.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7423464 - 09/18/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
For christ sake's it's not like the guy had a weapon he's holding a freaken book people.




You should watch Harold and Kumar. There's a scene where these cops start beating this blck dude's ass.

COP1: STOP RESISTING!!!!
BLACK DUDE: I'm not resisting!
COP1: HE'S GOT A GUN!
BLACK DUDE: It's not a gun! It's a book!
COP1: SECURE THE BOOK!
COP2: THE BOOK IS SECURED!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7823004370617435603&q=harold+kumar+jail&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Fast forward to the end

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423482 - 09/18/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> "elp elp I'm bein' opressed!" :wink:

Ah, thanks! Fixed it.  :smile:


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423489 - 09/18/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The book he's holding is a weapon.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Middleman]
    #7423501 - 09/18/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ahhh that's it.

It was a yellow book. They must have mistaken is for the missing Yellow Cake uranium that we were looking for in Iraq.

My bad! :wink:

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423534 - 09/18/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

just another reason to loath Kerry for being a big giant pussy.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: afoaf]
    #7423544 - 09/18/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yea. I wonder if, before I die, there will ever be a president worth voting for that actually has a fighting chance at being elected.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423570 - 09/18/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a much more complete account of the incident, including commentary from people who were there for the whole thing and fill us in on what occurred before the part where the videos start.

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/17/student-tasered-at-john-kerry-forum/

Did they really HAVE to taser him in order to cuff him? I dunno. But for sure he was warned repeatedly that if he DIDN'T let them cuff him, he was going to be tasered. That is quite clear from the videos. And note how easily he was able to get loose from the first two guards escorting him back up the aisle, even though it looks like they had him in some kind of "come-along" armlock type hold. It wasn't till other guards joined in the scrum that he was more or less contained. Is this guy some sort of ninja able to slip out of anything short of a Vulcan deathgrip or were the first two guards just not very good at their job? I have no idea.

Bottom line -- when the security guys move in and tell you to leave, you leave. If you choose to fight them, man up and accept the consequences.

What a hysterical little baby! "Help me! Don't tase me, bro!" Jumping Jiminy. You don't want to be tasered, just go with them. How hard is that to understand?




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7423597 - 09/18/07 12:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
What a hysterical little baby! "Help me! Don't tase me, bro!" Jumping Jiminy. You don't want to be tasered, just go with them. How hard is that to understand?





you must have seen a different video. the one I saw, had the kid on the ground, under at least 5-6 cops, screaming "please don't tase me, I'll leave!"

Now how exactly would one "just go with them" when in that situation? (buried under police, saying you will go peacefully?)

sigh.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7423598 - 09/18/07 12:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

yea he was a pussy. He should have fought back and bunched that bitch copy in then face and then kicked that dude in the balls.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423602 - 09/18/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

the guy is a douche bag and i'm glad he got tasered.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423617 - 09/18/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"Andrew spoke up after the Dean of International Affairs had stated final question. The final question was being asked about Israel, and then Andrew got on the mic on the other side of the room (noting he was next on the mic), and then proceeded to tell Kerry that its not fair not to be able to ask more questions after listening to him for an hour, and the Dean exclusively asking Kerry questions for another 45 minutes, leaving students 25 minutes to ask questions. At that point, the officers try to subdue him, but Kerry sternly told the police officers to back down. Kerry then asked Meyer if he can finish the other question and then proceed to his. Meyer consented. After the last question was answered, Kerry asked Meyer, what is your question."

Actually... the video DOES only tell one side of the story...

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7423632 - 09/18/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:

Did they really HAVE to taser him in order to cuff him?




How did people get cuffed before tazers?

This was all unnecesary. Kerry was okay with being asked the question and said he would answer it.

What was the problem?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #7423635 - 09/18/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I take back what I said... BEAT THE DOUCHE!

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423641 - 09/18/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Am I sick that I get a kick out of watching videos of cops pulling ppl over for speeding, and watching those ppl mouth off and curse to the cops because they want to finish their cell phone conversations while the cops are trying to take care of business... and watching them get tazered?

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423681 - 09/18/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i'm not saying he should have been tasered, and i'm not saying it was some horrible abuse of power either. all i'm saying is that i thought it was funny when he was tasered.

seriously this isn't as big of a deal as it's made out to be. this guy isn't some martyr. he's just some moron who acted like an ass and got tasered by some slightly over zealous cops. people get tasered everyday in this country. that's the way it is unfortunately but it's better than getting shot i suppose!

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #7423691 - 09/18/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You want to see the world's greatest selt declared martyrs? If you guys are ever in DC stop by the white house. There's always some dude with absolutely no political credentials doing some stupid shit in front of the white house acting like the world needs to listen to him.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423702 - 09/18/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

the kid was an idiot, the cops were idiots, just a bad formula for trouble. of course this was going to happen. both parties should be punished. neither side should get any sort of reconciliation out of this, rather both sides should be justly punished.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7423777 - 09/18/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If it was me I'd be glad they tasered me though, more money in the lawsuit.

He's not going to win any lawsuit.

He was on private property. When he was asked to leave, he said he wouldn't until he finished asking his questions. When the campus police asked him to leave, he fought them instead of simply leaving and saving himself an arrest.

Had the police subdued the guy without a taser, they might have injured him. Then we'd hear everyone crying police brutality. The reason they use the taser in the first place is to prevent injury to either the police or the suspect.

Whether Kerry is a coward for removing him is another matter, but the police did nothing wrong here.



That's what all the talking heads said about the Duke lacrosse boys that had their lives torn up. Now they're all millionaires. Just wait. You'll hear about a "settlement" in this case too.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #7423797 - 09/18/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The prosecutor in that case is doing time also

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423812 - 09/18/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

kotik writes:

Quote:

you must have seen a different video. the one I saw, had the kid on the ground, under at least 5-6 cops, screaming "please don't tase me, I'll leave!"




I saw the same video you did. Did you watch it from the point they cut off his mike and the guards moved in? Did they not give him plenty of opportunity to leave peacefully? Did he not break away from them when they were escorting him to the aisle? Did he head toward the exit when he broke away from them at the back of the auditorium or did he head back towards the stage?

This guy brought it all on himself. He could have walked up the aisle under his own power. He chose not to -- he chose to squirm free and head closer to the stage. Once the big black cop moved in and started hustling-bouncing him up the aisle, he could have let them guide him to the exit. He chose not to. Basically, any time they give him an inch of slack, he acted like an idiot.

Yeah... finally when he was down and had nowhere to go, he claimed he would "walk out of here". The guards treated this claim skeptically (wouldn't you, based on his actions so far?) and decided that yeah, he'd walk out of there... in cuffs. Rather than let them cuff him, he kept struggling. So they zapped him, cuffed him, and took him out.

This guy had multiple opportunities every step of the way to avoid getting zapped, and even to avoid getting cuffed. He chose not to act on those opportunities. So be it.

One can of course opine that the event organizers should have let the guy get away with all his crap... shoving his way to the head of the line, giving a speech before asking loaded inflammatory questions after the organizers had already made clear the question period was over, etc. But once the organizers made the call that this guy was acting inappropriately and had to leave, and instructed the guards to escort him out, the guy should have let himself be escorted out. Hell, he could even have shouted more questions and protestations every step of the way to the exit -- as long as kept moving to the exit. But once the decision was made that he was to be ejected, he was going to be ejected. It was completely up to him to decide how banged up he was going to get during the ejection.



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7423820 - 09/18/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
The prosecutor in that case is doing time also



He deserves to rot in hell.

He knew they were innocent and tried to lock them up for selfish political reasons.

He deserves to suffer 10x more than those duke kids would have suffered if he succeeded.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7423849 - 09/18/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

from the video I saw - the kid went right from asking a question to being assaulted. Nothing in between. they cut his mic, and simultaneously assaulted him. There was no "you are under arrest" or "we cut your mic because of X"

just cut the mic, and attack. followed by applause and then internet justification.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7423865 - 09/18/07 01:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

jiggy asks:

Quote:

How did people get cuffed before tazers?




Often by getting whacked upside the head with a nightstick. Or by having an elbow or shoulder dislocated. Or with other injuries done to both cuffer and cuffee.

As I noted earlier, if the guy hadn't been such a world class idiot, he wouldn't even have been cuffed.

In my wild and crazy teenage years, there was a fairly lowlife bar I used to attend whenever I could because the drinks were cheap, the ID checks were basically non-existent, the rock bands were good, and there were easy hotties willing to show their appreciation to those willing to buy them a few beers or share a couple of joints. In my times there I observed how the bouncers dealt with patrons reluctant to leave without putting up a fuss. Believe me, those bouncers cut people a lot less slack than the guards in this video did. So one night when I was told to leave (completely unfairly -- I was doing nothing wrong other than standing too close to a guy who really WAS acting up), you know what I did? I left. I didn't even try to argue, much less resist. I just left. Chugged the rest of my beer on the way to the door, of course, and politely handed the empty to the doorman on the way out, but I left.

And those bouncers weren't charged with protecting a US senator from loonies -- they were just there to keep the chaos in that dive to more or less manageable levels.

Face it -- the guy brought it on himself.



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423876 - 09/18/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

it's no wonder you're so up in arms about this if you've actually some how convinced yourself that he was "attacked" after they cut his mic. you've some how developed this exaggerated and ridiculous version of events, and if it was actually accurate you'd be right to be angry with the police. it's not accurate at all though. they didn't just cut his mic and attack him. they cut his mic and tried to peacefully escort him out. he then resisted arrest and was tazered, end of story. tazering a man on the ground who is pinned by six cops wasn't the right thing for them to do, but it certainly isn't as bad as you want to make it out to be.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423882 - 09/18/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

why was he even being arrested though?

that is the only thing i disagree with in this situation. if they hadn't put their hands on him and just asked him to leave first, this wouldn't have happened.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7423901 - 09/18/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

How did people get cuffed before tazers?

With direct physical force that often left the police or the suspect or both injured. That's why tasers are used now. They're more effective than pepper spray, they wear off faster, and they work. And nobody gets hurt.

Why is that so freaking hard to understand?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7423912 - 09/18/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

After seeing all the video posted here, especially that last one, it just reaffirmed my first impression that the kid was complete jackass in this situation and brought it all on himself. He wasn't contributing in any way to the event, rather he was merely trying to get on his soapbox and capitalize on the opportunity to lecture others. I can't understand why people think it is somehow noble or noteworthy to act like an ass and disrupt an event ruining it for everyone else there. No one came to this event to hear this idiot ramble on about his ideas. And if he had merely asked a reasonable, coherent, non-rambling question (even if it was the Skull-N-Bones question) he would have been left alone. But when he was denied the opportunity to continue lecturing everyone present he became combative. And becoming combative with police is about the stupidest thing anyone can ever do. Regardless of the police response, which may very well have been excessive, there is no one to blame but himself for the situation. And he could've easily avoided the tasing had he let them escort him from the premises instead of fighting them.

Short story, he was a dumbass and got exactly what he asked for.


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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Syle]
    #7423924 - 09/18/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly my point it's a violation of the 4th amendment. There's no justification for going up to someone and smiling and then tazering the shit out of him for nothing but protesting peacefully. I wanna know who commanded them to arrest him in the first place was it kerry?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (09/18/07 02:08 PM)

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OfflineChesterCopperpot
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7423932 - 09/18/07 02:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I cannot believe that people are not supporting this kid. Really take a look at what is going on, the kid got electrocuted for asking questions.... at a fucking university! People say ,"Oh he got what he deserved" and "Oh what did he expect." Yup yup, it is ok to fear asking tough questions and expect assault for exercising freedom of speech.... Holy shit, what happened on that video is SO WRONG. And those assholes in the crowd clapped, thought it was funny (at first), and didn't do shit when the kid was getting zapped.... I hope they have fun being another cog in the machine. That fact that people aren't upset by this video is really sad. I bet if that happened to a woman the reaction would be different or if the kid had been less "annoying".... yeah you have to look and be "cool" to protest now days right!? Give me a break. Thank you kotik for posting this.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423933 - 09/18/07 02:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

kotik writes:

Quote:

from the video I saw - the kid went right from asking a question to being assaulted. Nothing in between.




Then I don't know what video you saw. The one I saw was the one at the link I provided. The one done by some guy named Kyle Mitchell. And no, he wasn't "assaulted". Two guards took him by the arms and starting escorting him out of the auditorium.

And no, I didn't hear them say "You are under arrest" either. Maybe because at the time they first were leading him towards the door he wasn't under arrest. He was just a guy being escorted out of the auditorium. We can't tell from that video whether he was ever told he was under arrest or whether he just assumed he was and started shouting to the audience that he was being arrested.

"Help! Help!" Man, that's some comedy gold right there, I tell you what.

The guy was an ass. He totally lost it and paid the price. If he'd been a bit more rational the worst that would have happened to him was that his question would have been unanswered and he'd have been on the wrong side of the auditorium door while the whole thing wound down and Kerry signed autographs.



Phred


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Syle]
    #7423948 - 09/18/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
why was he even being arrested though?

that is the only thing i disagree with in this situation. if they hadn't put their hands on him and just asked him to leave first, this wouldn't have happened.



He wasn't arrested until he bacame combative and started fighting with the police. And if you watch the last video of his time at the mic he was obviously warned more then once to get to the point and ask a question. When he couldn't do that and continued lecturing his mic was cut off. He immediately became more adamant about "getting his turn" so he was going to be escorted out. Even at that point he was in no danger of being arrested. But he chose to fight the cops and that was where he made his last stupid mistake of the incident.


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InvisibleMrKite1
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7423963 - 09/18/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly what I was going to say, before tasers you would have gotten the shit kicked out of you for things like that.

That isn't to say that police don't get somewhat trigger happy with them but I do think it is better to stare down a taser then the alternatives.

Anyhow, that kid did forget an important rule about handling police confrontations. Stay calm and keep it simple, stupid. You never want to confuse a police officer about the nature of a situation or do anything that would make them feel threatened.
Like it has been said in this thread before he had opportunity to end this altercation positively and he didn't.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7423979 - 09/18/07 02:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
How did people get cuffed before tazers?

With direct physical force that often left the police or the suspect or both injured. That's why tasers are used now. They're more effective than pepper spray, they wear off faster, and they work. And nobody gets hurt.

Why is that so freaking hard to understand?




It's not had the student been a threat to anyone.

I didn't see that.

Kerry had him under control. When the kid was setting up his question, Kerry asked him, " What is the question, and the kid asked it then, followed by 2 more." Then out of nowhere, there is a scuffle, the kids mic is cut and he's being hauled away.

This is a video starting from before when Kerry, pointed to the kid to go ahead with his question. If questioning was over, why was there a line, with the kid already in the front and why did Kerry motion to him to go ahead?





Phred,

Sure the student could've backed off, shut up and spared himself the tazing and arrest. Kerry had him under control and the student asked his questions and then, he was just grabbed and a scuffle started.

I'd like to hear from the cops, why they felt a need to do that.

Someone in this thread asked if he was a student there at UF. Yes he was, surprise surprise, majoring in Communications and Journalism.:tongue:

I've seen more obnoxious setup and questioning from Hannity. This student has a future at Fox News.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7423986 - 09/18/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

There's no justification for going up to someone and smiling and then tazering the shit out of him for nothing but protesting peacefully.

I agree. But that's not what happened here.

He was asked to leave private property, refused, then got tased.

Refusing to leave when asked is not protesting peacefully. What video did YOU watch? :rolleyes:


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7423990 - 09/18/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Seuss' Transcript Service:

Kerry: "... for a strategy that is fatal. That's the distinction. Sir." (points to somebody to ask a question)

Student: "I fir, I first and foremost want to thank you for your time. You spent a lot of time talking to us here today. I want to thank you for coming and being open and honest. Uh, you recommended a book to us earlier and I wanted to recommend a book to you. It's called Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast..."

Kerry: "I have it actually."

Student: "Yeah, he's the top investigative journalist in America..."

Kerry: "I've already read it."

Student (incredulous): "...and he says you won the 2004 election..."

Kerry: "Right."

Student (incredulous): "...isn't that amazing?! Isn't that amazing that you won in 2004? In fact there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida..."

Kerry: "Correct."

Student:"...and Ohio..."

[we are now 35 seconds into the students "question"]

[A man in a suit standing behind the student leans over and whispers something to uniformed police officer. The police officer moves up behind the student.]

Kerry: "So what's the question?"

Student (speaking to people standing behind him): "Thank you very much."

Kerry: "So what's the question?"

[student turns back to Kerry]

Student: "That's my question. I'm..."

Kerry: "So what's the question?"

Student: "...going to preface it."

[student addresses people behind him]

Student (pointing at Kerry): "He's been talking for two hours. I think I can have two minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much."

Kerry: "Are you going to ask me your question?"

[student addresses Kerry]

Student: "I'm going to ask you my question! I'm gonna. I'm gonna inform people, then I'm gonna ask you my question. So there are multiple reports of disenfranchisement of black voters on the... on the day of the election in 2004..."

Kerry: "Correct" [I think, might have been the guy recording speaking]

Student: "...there is also voting machines... electronic voting machines in Alusia county Florida that counted backwards so amidst all of these reports of... of voting phony bogus stuff going on how could you concede the election on the day..."

[a few people clap... it is unknown if they clap because of his question or because he finally got around to asking a question. Just over a minute into this]

Student: "...how could you concede the 2004 election on the day when this book [points to book he is holding] says there are five million votes that were surpressed and that you won the election? Didn't you want to be president?"

[I think the next student is trying to move up to the mic. The first student doesn't even pause to take a breath . It is now 75 seconds since the student started talking (non stop).]

Student (addressing somebody other than Kerry): "I'm. I'm not even done yet. I have two more questions."

Student (addressing Kerry): "If you were so against Iran how come your not saying let's impeach Bush now, impeach Bush now before he can invade Iran? Why don't we impeach him, impeach Bush. Clinton. Clinton was impeached for what? A blowjob? Why don't we impeach Bush?"

[immediately after the word "blowjob" the two uniformed police officers look at each other and uncross their arms. Just under 90 seconds since the student started talking (non stop).]

Student: "Alright? Also, are you a member of, were you a member of skull and bones in college with Bush? Were you in the same secret society?"

[Just over 90 seconds, the person behind the mic says something to the student. It sounds as if "your time is up" but is difficult to understand.]

[Student speaking to guy behind him... can't hear what he is saying.]

[Looks like guy signals somebody with a cut motion, presumably for the mic.]

[Two uniformed police officers move up beside the student to escort him away from the mic. Student starts to resist their efforts.]

Kerry: That's all right. Let me answer his question.

[Student starts to freak out, shouting something garbled while trying to keep the uniformed officers from touching him.]

[The two officers get ahold of the student and start to escort him out of the room.]

Student: Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah.

Student screams: "Is anybody watching this? I'm not going anywhere."

[student tries to turn around and to get back to the mic, but the uniformed officers continue to escort him towards the back of the room]

[audience claps, presumably at the removal of the student]

[student breaks away from uniformed officers and runs towards the stage]

[uniformed officers grab student about halfway there. Student continues to struggle for twenty seconds]

[third uniformed officer arrives. They continue trying to escort the student out. The student continues to break their hold and turn towards the stage. Now 120 seconds since the student started talking.]

Student (screaming): "Get your hands off me! Help! Help!"

[student breaks away again, and tries to jump over the uniformed officers to get back to the mic]

[indistinct screaming from student]

Student (fighting to get away): "Get off of me! What did I do!? What did I do!? What did I do!? Help!!! Help!!!"

Officer: "Put your hands behind your back!"

Student: "Get off of me! I didn't do anything! Help me! Help me! Help!"

Student: "They're arresting me!"

[indistinct yelling... something about get those cuffs...]

Officer (yelling): "You'll be tazed if you do not [garbled]..."

[more indistinct yelling... now 163 seconds into this]

Officer (yelling): "Roll over onto your stomach!"

Another officer: "Put your hands behind your back!"

Female officer (yelling): "Stop resisting, NOW!"

[garbled ... sounds like roll over]

Female officer (yelling at student): "Do it now!"

[Kerry begins to speak while the three police struggle with the student on the floor.]

Student (yells): "... hands off!"

Kerry: I'll answer his question ... unfortunately he is not available to swear me in as president.

[audience laughs]

[now 3 minutes... 90 seconds since the uniformed officers tried to escort the student out of the room... 90 seconds of the student resisting]

Student (yelling): "Why are they arresting me?!"

Kerry: ... as it is a very important question ...

Student (yelling): "What did I do!? Get off me!"

[more garbled commands from police]

Student (yelling): "Get the fuck off me, man! I didn't do anything!"

[student that didn't do anything has been struggling with police for 106 seconds]

[cop says something]

Student (yelling): "Don't taze me, bro! Don't taze me!"

[student continues to fight]

Student (screaming): "I didn't do anything!"

[zap, zap, zap, zap, zap]

Student (screaming): "Ahhhowwwwww! Owwwwww! OWWWWWW!"

[student continues to scream "owww!" over and over, though tazer stopped long ago]

Student: "Let me go!"

[Once tazed, he stops fighting and lets them remove him from the room approximately 150 seconds after he started to resist]

[Watching from another angle, four police are pushing him towards the back of the room when he runs towards the back, then around the side of the police to try and get back to the front of the room. This is when they take him down and try to handcuff him. He continues to resist, and gets tazed for his efforts.]

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Offlinegmuralid
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7423999 - 09/18/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Indian cops dont have tazers....or guns! If you can run faster than them, you could probably get away.

Id run.

And yeah, if I were this guy, Id either say "ok fuck it, ill leave", but if I was going to be THAT charged up, I mean why not go all out and fuck someone up on the way out. I can be a slippery bastard too, so id just grab the fucking tazer and taze the shit out of anyone in teh vicinity, kick some balls, grab some boobies and then run! Muhaahahahaa...

Anyhoo, good thing I left the U.S. and Im back home. Place is going nuts. Good to see that the U.S. will always be as crazy as I remember it. Ill come back and visit some day. Perhaps even get tazered for the fuck of it!!!:)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7424002 - 09/18/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

It's not had the student been a threat to anyone.

That doesn't matter jiggy. He was asked to leave private property and refused. THAT is what started this. He combativeness escalated it.

The transcript shows that he several times broke free from the cops who were trying to remove him from the room and tried to run back toward the stage.

If someone in your home refuses to leave after you've asked him to, what would you have the police do in that case?

And again, let's get it through our heads once and for all that tasers are a BETTER way to subdue someone than manhandling them and risking injuries to everyone involved. They are not instruments of brutality; they're the opposite.


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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7424018 - 09/18/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks Seuss. Good transcript, and very telling.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7424041 - 09/18/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I tried to be as impartial as possible. I mainly wanted to get the beginning part as accurate as I could. Everybody has seen the end, so I didn't spend as much time there.

The one line I wasn't certain about... I have it as:

Kerry: "Are you going to ask me your question?"

But it also sounds like, "Would you like to come up here." However, based upon the students response, I went with the first version. If anybody else can tell what is being said, or finds any mistakes, please correct me.

Also, it was the profanity that seemed to set off the police. The word blowjob goosed them, and when he shouted fuck (get the fuck off me, man!) is when they tazed him. *shrug*


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7424053 - 09/18/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

jiggy writes:

Quote:

If questioning was over, why was there a line, with the kid already in the front and why did Kerry motion to him to go ahead?




See, jiggy, that's why I provided the link I did in my earlier post -- the one that has details from people who were at the event and saw what happened before the cameras started rolling. He was at the head of the line basically because he pushed his way to the mic once the announcement was made that this was the end of the question period.

This guy is apparently pretty well known on campus as a professional rabble rouser. That's not to say he didn't have the right to stand in line with other folks and ask a question if he made it to the front of the line in the allotted time, mind you. But perhaps the reason the event organizers lost patience with his rambling and told security to get him out of there was due to their knowledge of his past antics.

Maybe if he had just asked a question rather than babbling on about Greg Palast and machines rolling back numbers and Clinton's blowjobs for a minute and a half, things would have turned out differently. But after watching the clip you provided and reading the transcript Seuss provided, I can certainly see why the audience applauded when the security folks started heading him towards the door.



Phred


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424056 - 09/18/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
There's no justification for going up to someone and smiling and then tazering the shit out of him for nothing but protesting peacefully.

I agree. But that's not what happened here.

He was asked to leave private property, refused, then got tased.

Refusing to leave when asked is not protesting peacefully. What video did YOU watch? :rolleyes:




private property?  isn't this at a college, paid for by taxpayer's money?

also, what kind of protest ends when someone asks them to leave?  LOL!  If that's your idea of a peaceful protest, then I really don't have anything to say.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (09/18/07 02:38 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7424077 - 09/18/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

private property? isn't this at a college, paid for by taxpayer's money?

It's a building owned by the school. It's not a public park.

When the owner of a building tells you to leave, you should leave or the cops will ask you next.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424108 - 09/18/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

well I know for SURE i missed that part of the video.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424143 - 09/18/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> well I know for SURE i missed that part of the video.

It is in my transcript, 90 seconds in. The guy in the suit standing behind him, presumable the moderator, says something to the student. It is difficult to understand, but sounds like, "Your time is up". The student replies (can't hear it) and the police move up to escort him out as the guy in the suit (moderator?) makes the cutting motion to whoever is controlling the microphone (assumed, and backed up by comments from people that were there). Based upon the cutting motion to the mic (assumed) and the police movement, I suspect that the guy refused to stop speaking.

Please note, my assumptions are just that, and clearly indicated. I am trying to be careful and not claim something as fact that I am not certain of from watching the video.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424171 - 09/18/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
It's not had the student been a threat to anyone.

That doesn't matter jiggy. He was asked to leave private property and refused. THAT is what started this. He combativeness escalated it.

If someone in your home not threatening you refuses to leave after you've asked him to, what would you have the police do in that case?




That's the thing. If someone wasn't a threat to me, why I would ask them to leave if I invited them there?

Like Kerry said, in a post interview about the situation, "a healthy discussion was going on."


Without a threat of harm being posed against myself, property or guests, I don't see why "I" would be thinking, "call the police".

( Isn't that being paranoid or power tripping for the sake of power tripping?)

Looks like some rash and harsh uncalled for judgments and acting took place.

I wish we could've seen what would've happened had the cops just let Kerry handle the dialogue.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424209 - 09/18/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> I wish we could've seen what would've happened had the cops just let Kerry handle the dialogue.

Based upon what I watched, the guy wasn't going to give Kerry a chance to talk. Have you really sat back and listened to the guy ramble? Try to transcribe it and you will see what I mean. He doesn't pause to take a breath for almost 90 seconds. I've known cokeheads that couldn't keep that pace going. Seriously. Watch the first 90 seconds that occur before the police touch the kid. I have no reason to think he would not have kept that pace going all night, given the opportunity.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7424238 - 09/18/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

When Kerry interrupted with, " Are you going to ask a question?" The kid got it in and two others out pretty quickly after that.

By that point, the dialogue just between Kerry and the student became a cluster fuck because the student was being interrupted by the moderator and cops. An exchange was taking place there as well and I think it was rude of them to interrupt the kid when Kerry seemed to have things under control.

I think Kerry could've handled him with some verbal wit and sparring or in the direction he seemed to be going, some assertion to get the kid to his point, and then, a thoughtful answer. He is a politician after all, a seasoned Senator and almost became our President.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7424246 - 09/18/07 03:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

ya, he was almost pres except for the skull and bones thing...

*zap!*

ow! where did that come from?  :wink:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7424272 - 09/18/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

the student was being interrupted by the moderator and cops

He was not being interrupted. The question period was over before he even got to the mic. He forced his way to the mic anyway and started blathering. Everyone else sat down like normal people. And guess what? None of them got tased or arrested.

You're defending a guy acting like a spoiled brat who got what he deserved simply because that's the anti-establishment position. Nevermind logic or the truth of the transcript.

The police enforce rules with force. That's what they're for. Had this nut case pulled a gun and shot Karry or someone in the audience, you'd now be screaming how inept the police were for not forcibly restraining an obviously agitated and escalating nutcase who's refused several orders to leave the building and instead kept rushing toward the stage.

Armchair quarterbacks... :shake:


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424288 - 09/18/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Had this nut case pulled a gun and shot Karry or someone in the audience, you'd now be screaming at how inept the police were for not forcibly restraining an obviously agitated and escalating nutcase who's refused several orders to leave the building and instead kept rushing toward the stage.




hypothetical are fun, aren't they?

What if halfway through his question, an officer put a loaded combat shotgun to his temple and fired? Then what?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7424318 - 09/18/07 03:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Another interesting... I just read the stuff from Phred's link earlier by people that were there. One guy writes:

"Then you enter the video that has been circulating around, where he asks his question, not before Accent Speaker’s Bureau president, Stephen Blank (in some videos, front row left side of right aisle), signals the AV guys to cut Meyer off. Meyer then was confused what happened, and then was dragged up the auditorium. Meyer kept screaming why is he being arrested. The other videos do not show that Meyer was handcuffed, before he was tasered. I sat in the back row, with this occuring less than 5 feet from me."


Watching the video, the above blurb is obviously false.

The mic wasn't turned off until 90 seconds after Meyer started speaking. The cut the mic immediately after he asked about skull and bones as the cops were approaching him.

Next, Meyer was pushed up the isle out of the auditorium, not dragged. As the police were pushing him, he ran in the direction they were pushing to get away, then doubled around to try and get back to the front of the room.

Also, if you watch carefully, you will see that he is not handcuffed. He rolls over on to his right side (from his stomach) and tries to sit up. A cop clearly has a hold on his left wrist. This is clearly visible. You can see his hand pushing on a something (a chair or leg). If he was handcuffed at this time, he would not have been able to lean up, nor would his wrist be available to be held. While he is in this position, trying to get up again, the zapzapzapzap starts up. He quickly goes back down on to his stomach and you see two cops wrench his left arm from his front/side to behind his back to be cuffed. At most, he might have had a cuff on his right wrist, but he certainly was not in custody at the time of being tazed.

This picture was taken immediately (less than a second) before he is tased. The hand you see is the Meyer's, being held by the cop to the right. Obviously not handcuffed.



I found another angle. His one wrist is handcuffed, and as they try to lock it on the other he struggles and sits up to the picture you see above. At that point, they zap him.

Edited by Seuss (09/18/07 04:04 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7424337 - 09/18/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
Had this nut case pulled a gun and shot Karry or someone in the audience, you'd now be screaming at how inept the police were for not forcibly restraining an obviously agitated and escalating nutcase who's refused several orders to leave the building and instead kept rushing toward the stage.




hypothetical are fun, aren't they?

What if halfway through his question, an officer put a loaded combat shotgun to his temple and fired?  Then what?




:lol:

Did you see how that cop drew his gun and pointed it at the guy right away? I thought that was a little hasty...

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7424394 - 09/18/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The inimitable Scrappleface weighs in -- http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2689

Quote:

Kerry Says Tasered Student ‘Seared’ in His Memory

by Scott Ott

(2007-09-18) — Sen. John Kerry, D-MA, said today that a University of Florida student who was Tasered after cursing police while resisting arrest during a Kerry speech is “seared…seared in my memory.”

Florida student Andrew Meyer, 21, drew police attention during a Q&A session by vigorously filibustering Sen. Kerry, verbally attacking him for his failure to contest the 2004 presidential election results, his failure to yank funding from the U.S. military in Iraq, and his failure to impeach President George Bush, who is reportedly Mr. Kerry’s Skull & Bones fraternity brother.

Sen. Kerry attempted to answer what he called the “very important question”, but his calm, measured words were drowned out by the screaming of the newly-energized Mr. Meyer.

Later, the professional Vietnam veteran expressed concern that the student’s freedom of speech had been squelched in “a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan…that is, if Mr. Khan had been able to buy a high-voltage stun gun.”






Phred


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Offlinesublimistri
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7424494 - 09/18/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If he wouldnt have been such a drama queen the police wouldnt have gotten jealous and stole the show.


--------------------
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gmuralid]
    #7424497 - 09/18/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=657_1190085332

When you watch this full version of the guy it appears as if the guy is off his meds. Blow jobs and and secret societies. What the fuck is wrong with him? When the cops ask him to comply yelling and swing your arms "Get the fuck off me" is not the right answer. What a tard. LOL


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7424498 - 09/18/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Diploid, I simply don't see where the kid was disturbing the peace.

Kerry and he were having a dialogue at a Q & A and the next thing you know, the kid is being harassed. He's studying to be a journalist, it's a college campus, a Senator was there having a forum with students. You would expect to see, such, Kerry could've handled him like a Pro, and all would've been well.

Instead of letting the kid embarrass himself with his emotional rambling, the cops action lead to Kerry's visit becoming a national embarrassment for the school.

Clearly, you didn't watch the video I posted. The Q & A was still going on. There was a line, mic's were on, and Kerry is shown pointing to the kid to go next.

Any report you read that said it was over, was wrong. The video proves that.

I don't see where being a spazzy journalistic student is a crime.

Kerry is even defending the student.



I like the way scrapple face weighed in.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7424544 - 09/18/07 04:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> Diploid, I simply don't see where the kid was disturbing the peace.

The moment the moderator told the kid his time was up and the kid kept talking...

> Any report you read that said it was over, was wrong. The video proves that.

No it doesn't, though it took me a while to figure out what was going on. At first, it does appear just as you say.

From an eyewitness (that has an account that matches up to what I saw in the video):

Quote:

Anyway, after he was done, a university ambassador asked Kerry a few premade questions. Once that was over, Senator Kerry announced he would take questions from the students.

There were two microphones placed on each side of the aisle. One on my side and the other on Andrew Meyer’s side. Senator Kerry began answering the student’s questions from each aisle. Eventually it was announced that there would only be a few more questions answered. Since Meyer and I were both in the back of each line, it did not seem likely that our questions would be answered.

However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student’s question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should “spend time to answer everyone’s questions!”

Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would “stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered.” The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying “what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!” The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student’s question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).


Meyer approached the microphone and began to talk about a book he had which stated that Kerry won the 2004 election because of disenfranchisement of black voters and faulty voter machines that produced “Bush” as the winner. He then posed another question about why President Bush had not been impeached. “President Clinton was impeached because of a blowjob, why not Bush?”. The third and strangest question he posed to Senator Kerry was asking him if he was part of the skull and bones society with Bush at Yale. Meyer’s mic cut off after that, probably because he had mentioned the word “blowjob”. The cops grabbed him, but Meyer was able to get away several times.




Meyer also refers to the events that day as the "Kerry Protest" outside the auditorium as the police are taking him away.

> Kerry is even defending the student.

With all the people screaming "police brutality" that haven't really looked beyond the edited stuff on youtube, all Kerry is trying to do is save face. "Why yes, the kid was right, and the police were mean. Vote for me!"

Edited by Seuss (09/18/07 05:04 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7424829 - 09/18/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, not that I have seen many of the full videos I am even more convinced that Meyer did nothing wrong. Ok yes, the easy way not to get tasered by the cops is to just comply (how many shroomery posters comply with the law?) but Meyer was standing up for something by pressing the questions and challenging the cops attempt to silence his 1st amendment. His first minute+ of questioning was not rambling, he was asking some very good questions. And we can tit for tat all day about when exactly "this" was said or "that" was done but I say stand back for a second and really get a feel for the circumstances and the reaction of the police. The police reaction was totally out of line. I believe that Kerry is sincere in his "general" support of Meyers and "general" disapproval of police actions. He was an officer on a swift boat in Vietnam and has seen some nasty shit. After his duty he was a speaker for Vietnam Veterans Against the War. I believe a sincere protester being brutalized by police would strike a negative reaction in John Kerry.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
    #7424858 - 09/18/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The more I read people trying to defend this guy, the more I realize that people haven't a clue how the law, or the constitution work...

> Ok yes, the easy way not to get tasered by the cops is to just comply

Exactly. When the cops arrive the game is lost and damage control is all that is left. You do whatever you can to minimize the damage so that you can fight another day.

> how many shroomery posters comply with the law?

Complying with "immoral legislation" and obeying a cop are two very different things.

> and challenging the cops attempt to silence his 1st amendment

The event had 1st amendment protections. Meyer was a guest. When the moderator asked him to leave, he did not have the right to stay. He became a trespasser at that point. He could have executed his first amendment rights at another location, but he chose instead to fight the police like an idiot.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
    #7424879 - 09/18/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

the cops attempt to silence

He was not silenced. The question period was over BEFORE he forced his way to the microphone.

His first minute+ of questioning was not rambling... he was asking some very good questions

Irrelevant. The question period was over. Everyone else in line ahead of him was sitting down because the question period was over.

Is anyone reading this thread? Hello?

And we can tit for tat all day about when exactly "this" was said or "that" was done

So the truth about what REALLY happened isn't important, only how you 'feel' about it is important. :rolleyes:


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
    #7424880 - 09/18/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ack, I it continue by mistake...

> His first minute+ of questioning was not rambling

Of course it was... it took him 40 seconds to ask a question. Kerry asked him THREE TIMES "what is your question?". If you don't call his 40 second tirade a ramble, I don't know what you would call a ramble?

> The police reaction was totally out of line.

The beginning of the police action appeared to be directed by the guy in the suit. The police were following the request of the moderator, from what I can tell.

If anybody was out of line, it was the moderator for asking the police to step in. However, the getting tased bit, the guy deserved every bit of it. They gave him almost two full minutes to quit resisting before finally resorting to painful force.

> I believe that Kerry is sincere in his "general" support of Meyers and "general" disapproval of police actions.

I can't know Kerry's motives, but I suspect he is trying to keep from being seen as the bad guy more than anything else. I could be wrong on this one.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7424917 - 09/18/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

whether you guys agree with him or not, and whether you think the cops' reaction was justified or not, I am glad there are people like Meyers that will ask these types of questions in a public forum.

Obviously, if anyone knew he was a conspiracy theorist that would mention Skull and Bones, they would not let him ask questions anyways - what other option does a person have, if they refuse to ask scripted questions?

Again, I don't know his character, but as a third party observer, with no personal stake in this particular event - I'm POSITIVE that tasing this person was not the best solution. To all those saying the tasing was justified, in all honesty, have you been tased by a police-grade taser before?

It's easy to prescribe punishments and reactions to things in hindsight, and without any direct involvement. Even easier when you have neither had a question that was so avoided and mocked, and never experienced the suggested consequence.

I agree once the moderator asks you to leave, you leave. Even Alex Jones goes peacefully, but he shouts the whole time. It's one thing if he got tased right after breaking away from the first cops, but being tased while already subdued and surrounded by police? come on... you guys are usually stubborn, and borderline coldhearted on this forum, but this is a new low.

Obviously that huge black cop had the kid under control. At what point did the tasers need to come out? The number of fatalities in Florida alone due to police tasers is unheard of. We're talking an average of 50,000 volt shocks here.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425008 - 09/18/07 06:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> I am glad there are people like Meyers that will ask these types of questions in a public forum.

To the contrary, I am glad that there are people that will ask these types of questions; however, it is unfortunate that they are like Meyers. Any message the guy was trying to convey was lost in his immature manic ramble. Had the guy been mature, calm, collect, and asked his questions like a normal person, rather than acting like a two year old throwing a temper tantrum, then I would agree with you completely. I had no problem with the message, but the messenger was a bit loony.

> have you been tased by a police-grade taser before?

Yep. The 50,000 volt stun guns are nothing. Hardly hurt. More shock value than anything else. Get in the 250,000V to 500,000V range and it is a completely different story. I have tested many different ones (on myself) and speak from experience.

> but being tased while already subdued and surrounded by police?

Actually, he was tased after one hand got cuffed and he started to resist / get up. This is a very dangerous situation for the police, as the wrist with the cuff on it becomes a weapon if the guy gets free and starts to swing his new metal club. I doubt they would have zapped him if he didn't have at the cuff on his one wrist, but I can't know for certain. However, had he gotten free with the cuff on one wrist, a little electric shock would have been the least of his worries. At that point, had it happened, the police would have been justified in using deadly force.

> Obviously that huge black cop had the kid under control.

Watch again. Obviously he didn't. The guy was spun on adrenaline and was in the process of getting up. Look at the picture I posted a page or two back. This was less than a second before the taser went off. The kid was half way half way up off the ground with four cops pushing him down. Under control? Hardly.

I agree things could have been handled differently, but in the heat of the moment, the cops, from everything I have seen, acted correctly. The moderator... maybe, maybe not... can't say there... and the kid... definitely not. Once you are asked to leave, you leave. Simple.

Did you watch the part out in the hall after they removed him- where he is screaming that the police are going to kill him, or give him to the government (whatever that means) and refused to identify himself, had not brought ID, called it the "Kerry Protest", etc... some people live in a reality different from the rest of us... this kid seems to be one of those.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425029 - 09/18/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

This made the front page of CNN:


Florida campus cops on leave after Taser incident

(CNN) -- Two University of Florida police officers have been placed on leave with pay after using an electronic stun gun to subdue a student who was questioning Sen. John Kerry at a campus forum, the school's president said Tuesday.

The Florida Division of Law Enforcement will investigate Monday's arrest of student Andrew Meyer, said J. Bernard Machen. Machen called the incident "regretful for us."

"The thing that I regret is that civil dialogue and civil discourse did not happen," Machen said. "That's fundamental to a university campus. Why it didn't happen is what we're trying to sort out."

During Monday's forum, Meyer came to the microphone to question why the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee from Massachusetts did not contest his loss to President Bush in the pivotal state of Ohio over allegations that African-American voters were disenfranchised, why he did not support Bush's impeachment and whether he belonged to the Yale University secret society Skull and Bones, as Bush did.

Meyer had about a minute and a half at the microphone before police stepped in to haul him away. As he tried to escape their grip, Kerry protested, "That's all right, let me answer his question." Watch the incident unfold »

But as Meyer repeatedly questioned why he was being arrested, officers dragged him to the back of the auditorium and then used a Taser on him when he continued to struggle.

While Kerry pleaded for calm, officers warned the student he would be shocked if he did not stop resisting.

Meyer responded, "What did I do? Get off me ... get the f--- off me, man, I didn't do anything. Don't Tase me, bro, I didn't do anything."

Meyer was charged with resisting arrest with violence -- a felony -- and a misdemeanor count of disturbing the peace. He was released without having to post bond Tuesday.

Machen said the clips posted online paint an incomplete picture of the scene.

University spokesman Steve Orlando said before police moved in, Meyer was asked to relinquish the microphone because he was "being disruptive."

But the arrest triggered a protest by a group of University of Florida students Tuesday. One of them, Benjamin Dictor, called the arrest "an assault on reason itself."

"For a question to be met with arrest, not to mention physical violence, is completely unacceptable in the United States," Dictor said.

Some students cheered Meyer's removal, and others looked on quietly. But several screamed in protest when officers prepared to shock him.

Meyer has a Web site that features videos of him taking part in several practical jokes. It also includes a "disorganized diatribe" that criticizes the war in Iraq and the media.

In a statement issued Tuesday, Kerry said he didn't know a Taser had been used on the student until after he left the event, and said he hoped no one was injured.

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way," he said.

"I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again, I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention."

Machen said authorities have not determined whether Tasers were used improperly.

In addition, he said a student-faculty review panel will examine "all of our protocols relative to student dialogue and faculty interaction" in the wake of the incident.

-----------------------------------------

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425039 - 09/18/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

At what point did the tasers need to come out?

When he started resisting arrest.

You seem to think that using a taser is somehow worse than five or six big guys twisting the guy's joints and pushing him into the ground for several minutes in order to get handcuffs on him is somehow better than a quick, clean zap with a taser, then it's over. You're wrong.

Injury rates to suspects go down in virtually all police departments when they begin using tasers. That's why they're used.

Why doesn't anyone get this? Why does everyone want the police to be brutes instead of technicians?


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425081 - 09/18/07 06:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think I have put enough time into this topic... unless something new comes up, I'm going to bow out of this debate.

> Injury rates to suspects go down in virtually all police departments when they begin using tasers.

I wish police would train with (and treat) tasers as deadly weapons rather than use them at the slightest hint of an excuse. Other than that, I agree with you completely. Again, in this particular case, I feel the use of the taser was justified (with the guy getting up and one hand already cuffed).


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7425146 - 09/18/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

> I am glad there are people like Meyers that will ask these types of questions in a public forum.

To the contrary, I am glad that there are people that will ask these types of questions; however, it is unfortunate that they are like Meyers.  Any message the guy was trying to convey was lost in his immature manic ramble.  Had the guy been mature, calm, collect, and asked his questions like a normal person, rather than acting like a two year old throwing a temper tantrum, then I would agree with you completely.  I had no problem with the message, but the messenger was a bit loony.




i agree with you 100%.  i mean, the type of person that would even know about that question let alone ask it is what im saying.  im not going to defend any showboating, although i would never say a taser is justified in this type of event.

Quote:

> have you been tased by a police-grade taser before?

Yep. The 50,000 volt stun guns are nothing.  Hardly hurt.  More shock value than anything else.  Get in the 250,000V to 500,000V range and it is a completely different story.  I have tested many different ones (on myself) and speak from experience.




ok, part 2 of this question - how long did you tase yourself for?  when i tase myself, its for about a second or two.  when its from the cops, its more like 5+.  there is a HUGE difference, unless you are a masochist, in which case - more power to you (pun intended).

ill just restate, that anyone saying that this kid was 'asking for it' or 'deserved it' is stating this from a very comfortable chair with a/c blasting, and probably some cheetos nearby.  but they are probably bold flavored; how daring  :smile:


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Edited by kotik (09/18/07 07:02 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7425166 - 09/18/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
At what point did the tasers need to come out?

When he started resisting arrest.

You seem to think that using a taser is somehow worse than five or six big guys twisting the guy's joints and pushing him into the ground for several minutes in order to get handcuffs on him is somehow better than a quick, clean zap with a taser, then it's over. You're wrong.




and you seem to be implying you are qualified to decide this, and have already compared the two.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425278 - 09/18/07 07:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> how long did you tase yourself for?

At 50kv, for a while (few seconds) without any real effect. On my arm it did nothing at all. On my stomach, I clenched up for a few seconds, but nothing I couldn't work through. At 250kv, I don't really remember/couldn't say. It took me down hard and fast.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7425408 - 09/18/07 07:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The more information comes out about this incident the more I am shocked to see anybody continuing to defend this guys actions. He was clearly attempting to create a disturbance, and succeeded in doing so. His opinions/questions/point of view are irrelevant to the situation. He handled himself poorly and provoked all action taken against him. There was no so-called 'dialouge' occuring between himself and Kerry, and I doubt there ever would've been had they let him ramble for another 5 minutes. I wouldn't be suprised if he went in there with full intention of pushing it to the very point that he would get "assulted" by the police in front of hundreds of witnesses. No doubt he'll have a law suit filed before the week is out.

This idiot did nothing but damage the cause of people who think like him and want some of the same questions asked.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7425457 - 09/18/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

ha, well coldhearted and now jumping the gun with ad hominem attacks to-boot! Let's all just wait a while before we claim to know this guys character and background, jesus.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425488 - 09/18/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know, seems like everyone in this thread has done a good job so far of making assumptions about this guy. I'm just calling it like I see it from the evidence we have so far. I'll be the first to say my opinions are just that and I don't know any more then the rest of you here.

But regardless, the guy was still an idiot in his handling of it all. That can be seen plain enough in the video.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425554 - 09/18/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

kotik writes:

Quote:

The number of fatalities in Florida alone due to police tasers is unheard of.




First of all, these aren't Florida police, they're University security staff.

Secondly, I'd really like to see some statistics from credible sources on the number of people killed by police using tasers in Florida in say the last ten years.




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7425562 - 09/18/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

But regardless, the guy was still an idiot in his handling of it all. That can be seen plain enough in the video.




i still disagree. inexperienced, perhaps. but that does not automatically make you an idiot.

if we are discussing our favorite albums, and then all of a sudden someone throws you a football and you are tackled to the ground - I wouldn't call you an idiot, because you didn't know what was coming next.

If he knew he would be tasered, than he is an idiot. If he knew he would be tasered, and then on CNN / Fox, then he's a genius.

In either scenario, I would want him to pick my lottery numbers from now on, and i may even try that James Randi Challenge.

Quote:

Phred said:
I'd really like to see some statistics from credible sources on the number of people killed by police using tasers in Florida in say the last ten years.





me too, please post asap.


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Edited by kotik (09/18/07 08:21 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425616 - 09/18/07 08:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If he knew he would be tasered, than he is an idiot.




Then he is an idiot. Because in at least one of the videos (the one I posted) it is quite obvious once they have him down on the ground that one of the cops is telling the guy that if he won't let them cuff him, he is gonna get tasered. So yeah... he knew he was gonna get tasered -- IF he didn't co-operate. His choice all the way.

As I said earlier... comedy gold, man.



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7425668 - 09/18/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

If he knew he would be tasered, than he is an idiot.




Then he is an idiot. Because in at least one of the videos (the one I posted) it is quite obvious once they have him down on the ground that one of the cops is telling the guy that if he won't let them cuff him, he is gonna get tasered. So yeah... he knew he was gonna get tasered -- IF he didn't co-operate. His choice all the way.

As I said earlier... comedy gold, man.



Phred




again, this is obvious to a third party observer that's able to analyze these things in depth over the course of a few minutes, review their opinion, etc. It's not an accurate comparison, taking into account how quick this happened, the additional factor of being in a large public forum, and quite obviously adrenalin running through your system.

To a police officer, or perhaps a convict - the instant reaction of submission / compliance would be obvious. To a college kid that's just old enough to drink, it's another thing entirely. Again, lack of experience does not equal idiocy.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7425671 - 09/18/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i can't believe this has become the thread it has.

Everyone knows you don't ask the elected about their shit!

waht did he think was gonna happen?

People might be like, oh! someone called them out.

now if only we could get the rest of the world as interested as us "drug crazed hippies".


















Carry on!!!!! dissmeinate! my lovely brethren, and sistren. Terminus Novus Seclorum Ordo, or what4ver/


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7425758 - 09/18/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

again, this is obvious to a third party observer that's able to analyze these things in depth over the course of a few minutes, review their opinion, etc.




Fuck me. You are just determined to lay this on everyone except the fool who brought it on himself, aren't you?

How many minutes of "analyzing in depth" does it take anyone with an IQ higher than pocket lint to understand that when you're pinned to the ground by a bunch of big dudes, and one of them holding a taser shows it to you and says, "If you don't let us cuff you, you're gonna get zapped," then you had better let them cuff you? There's not a whole lot of nuance to try to puzzle out, here.

Now let's remember this guy is a student at a university, so he's not likely to be suffering from Down's Syndrome. Admittedly, he's not the brightest guy I've ever seen (his belief that Greg Palast is "the top investigative journalist in America" gives us a pretty clear indication that he's no rocket scientist), but let's face it -- you don't need a PhD in Communications Theory to understand a simple declarative sentence like, "Sir, stop fighting or I'm gonna zap you."

Give it up, dude.




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7425792 - 09/18/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

As a side note, did anyone else catch the way that preening useless waste of human flesh in a suit (I refer to John F'ing Kerry, of course) agreed that Bush stole the election?

An honorable man listening to a ranting moonbat prattle on and on about how he had really won the election would have said something like "Well, no, actually I lost the election. But what's your question?"

Not our John-boy. Re-read Seuss's transcript for Kerry's comment -- "Correct".

We all dodged a bullet when Kerry lost in 2004.





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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7425827 - 09/18/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I would like to stress the point that this was a college campus with the goal of student education. The college formed this event as an opportunity for students. College encourages critical thinking and has a history of activism. Take this situation into a classroom context... Kerry has been invited as a source of current political debate and the students are there to observe and remark. Think about the perspective of the teachers, students, and John Kerry concerning Meyer. Did they see him as a threat? Did they see him as such an annoyance that they needed the cops to restrain him? Of course I cannot assume what they thought. This really comes down to the behavior of the cops. From my military experience I can guess that these guys had a full briefing and warm up on security concerning such a high profile personality as John Kerry. I can only assume that the cops were hyped up and ready to put on their best behavior for a guest of that magnitude. Ok..now I am going into assumption mode--- the cops were on edge and ready for anything (like an assassination attempt). So the moment things got "out of hand" (a young adult carrying on about far-left politics and not stopping) the cops went into full-on defensive mode. The problem is that the drastic measures that the police took were completely out of context giving the circumstances. I believe that this is another example of police brutality that can be attributed to a lack of training and understanding.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7425864 - 09/18/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Phred I gotta tell you, its not as simple as it seems.

I was one morning eating a McGrddiles smammich in the parking of of McD's. I was not wearing any shoes or a shirt.

The police seen me and got curious. They wanted to know where I live and what I like to do for fun and all that bullshit. I told them to fuck off, NC state law prohibits the random harassment of its citizens. They got mean. I got assertive. I was one block form y house. So finally after detaining me for an hour they have four cars there and five officers. Bet you can't guess what happened.

I was eventually mased cause i wouldn't cooperate with an "investigation". well, I ain't never been no bitch. I finally went to jail, for impeding upon an investigation and and disorderedly conduct. they couldn't even arrest me for resisting arrest, cause I hadn't done anything that warranted arrest. So please cut the bullshit.

'the posse aren't some benevolent force.

Also there were some shroomery members present. it was bullshit. excuse the spelling.

seriously, cut the bullshit.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7425889 - 09/18/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks Nakors. I had a gun pulled on me by a cop when I was 15 for being in a grave yard at night. Cops are pumped up and ready to rock, often they do not think....... they use the rule of procedure over the rule of common sense.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
    #7425916 - 09/18/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ChesterCopperpot said:
Thanks Nakors. I had a gun pulled on me by a cop when I was 15 for being in a grave yard at night. Cops are pumped up and ready to rock, often they do not think....... they use the rule of procedure over the rule of common sense.




they operate on the rule of adrenline! pure an simple, and hey got idiot judges and most sadly elected D.A's prosecute theri fucked up cases.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7425946 - 09/18/07 09:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
This kinda reminds me of the UCLA student last year who was tazed in the library for refusing to show ID.

The UCLA student last year was asked to leave the library (private property) and refused. Only after he refused and became combative was force used.

Again, had the police forced him to leave without using the taser, he might have been injured. By using the taser, they prevent any injuries and still force the guy to leave.

What would you have the police do when someone refuses to leave private property after being asked? Use harsh language?




Tazers were made for using as an alternative to using a gun not for a nonthreatening college kid. Cops use tazers now because they're too damn lazy to use there muscle, sad that you try to justify someone getting tazed because they wouldn't stand up


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7426004 - 09/18/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So the moment things got "out of hand" (a young adult carrying on about far-left politics and not stopping) the cops went into full-on defensive mode. The problem is that the drastic measures that the police took were completely out of context giving the circumstances. I believe that this is another example of police brutality that can be attributed to a lack of training and understanding.




No, it was another example of someone acting stupid getting the stupid knocked out of him.

The longer this discussion goes on, the more I have to wonder if half of y'all have even bothered to watch the videos. There was no "brutality". The security personnel were escorting the guy out the door. If he had just let them steer him out the door, he would never have been tasered. Just how hard is it to understand that simple fact?

What the hell did he think was going to happen? That if he just kept screeching at the top of his lungs and diving for the front of the auditorium every time they gave him half an inch of wriggle room he would somehow impress them with his steely determination to the cause? That they would just step back in admiration murmuring, "Damn, son. Maybe you DO have something worth saying after all," and then they'd fold their arms and watch with just a hint of a tear in their stern visages as he continued laying it all out for "The Man" at the podium?

Take a reality pill.

The guy was acting deranged -- more deranged by the second. I'm not making this up -- watch the fucking videos, fa cryin' out loud! He was like a little kid throwing a tantrum because he didn't get his way. But this wasn't some six year old weighing maybe forty pounds lying on his belly in the aisle of a grocery store and drumming his feet on the floor, it was a grown man charged up enough to shrug off two security guards and head back towards the microphone. They had a responsibility to get him out of there. That's their job. They had an obligation to remove the mutt, whether the speaker was just some run of the mill speaker or a US senator.

There's really no point beating this dead horse. Y'all will believe what y'all will believe. I personally find it completely astonishing that anyone who watched those videos could still be trying to defend this turniphead's behavior, but this isn't the first time I've been astonished by what I've read in this forum. I'm sure it won't be the last.



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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7426094 - 09/18/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Phred, one day someone is gonna swing a hammer that is longer, harder and swung with more speed than yours. You will be "knocked the fuck out". even the stars burn out eventually.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7426440 - 09/18/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I hope the kid files a lawsuit..


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7426913 - 09/19/07 04:29 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

again, this is obvious to a third party observer that's able to analyze these things in depth over the course of a few minutes, review their opinion, etc.




You are just determined to lay this on everyone except the fool who brought it on himself, aren't you?




yes, that's exactly what I am doing!  Assigning the responsibility of that kids actions to... well, him!  Cop reaction, unjustified.  Other than that, the mental processes going on in Kerry, the kid's the cops' heads are purely speculative, although I am more than well aware that's not the type of thing to stop you, Phred. :smile:



Quote:

How many minutes of "analyzing in depth" does it take anyone with an IQ higher than pocket lint to understand that when you're pinned to the ground by a bunch of big dudes, and one of them holding a taser shows it to you and says, "If you don't let us cuff you, you're gonna get zapped," then you had better let them cuff you? There's not a whole lot of nuance to try to puzzle out, here.




clear thinking while being assaulted by 6+ in uniform, and in the middle of a public forum, and IQ are two different things altogether.  If you can't understand that, then you aren't qualified to comment on either.



Quote:

you don't need a PhD in Communications Theory to understand a simple declarative sentence like, "Sir, stop fighting or I'm gonna zap you."




now I can start to agree with you... however the way you just typed that out, including sir at the beginning is implying a statement that's asked clearly, and calmly.  Let's take an example, since you seem to be locked on this.  If you have every been to the military, and through basic training, you will see how some people react to simple things like "ABOUT FACE!" when it's screamed in their face for the first few times, as opposed to someone walking up to you, and calmly asking you to turn around.  Some people (and I would imagine the type of person who yelps "help! help!") just have a complete brain shutdown, because of the shock of the moment.  Again, there is no correlation between IQ and shock.  You can draw the lines out all you want, but your mentioning "Down Syndrome" and etc. pretty much sums up how valid your argument is.

Quote:

Phred said:
it was another example of someone acting stupid getting the stupid knocked out of him.





ah, thanks for clearing that up.  Please see my comment above.

The longer this discussion goes on, the more I have to wonder if half

Quote:

this isn't the first time I've been astonished by what I've read in this forum. I'm sure it won't be the last.




took the words right out of my mouth.

Quote:


Fuck me




see comment above.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Brainiac]
    #7426927 - 09/19/07 04:54 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> I hope the kid files a lawsuit..

Against who for what? The kid was asked to leave. He didn't. The police escorted him out and he tried to run back in (several times). The police tried to arrest him and he resisted. The police warned him that he would be tazed if he didn't stop resisting. He continued to resist. The police tased him. There was no beating, there was no police brutality, the was absolutely nothing done incorrectly by the police. The police didn't act on their own; they were directed to remove the guy by a university official. So, I ask again, who should the kid sue and for what?

> I personally find it completely astonishing that anyone who watched those videos could still be trying to defend this turniphead's behavior

The first video that I watched was well edited and made it appear that the police were simply beating the guy down after he asked Kerry about being in Skull and Bones with Bush. Without seeing the manic ramble that led up to that question, and without seeing the actions of the guy before he finally does get tazed, one would think this is another case of police brutality. Once I watched the entire video (as much as I could find) from various angles, read eyewitness accounts, and made a time line of the events as they occurred, it became very clear that without creative editing the guy is in the wrong and the police (for once) are doing it by the book.

I hate to admit it, but I spent around ten hours yesterday analyzing the events that took place. I watched at least five different videos shot from various angles. I stepped frame by frame through his struggle with police around the time he is being tazed. I created a transcript of everything that was said leading up to the tazing, created from multiple video sources. I created a time line of events to see how long the police waited before finally resorting to painful force. At the level of detail that I was looking, there is no question at all, the kid was in the wrong.

People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of what really happened. The people that want to believe that this was police brutality only need to watch the edited video to become convinced that they are indeed correct. Though what really has me shocked is the girl that comes up the isle (from the direction of the stage) as the guy is getting tazed. The lady cop tells the girl to back off, as the girl starts to get a bit hysterical screaming "what did he do, what did he do" (or something close to that, my notes are at home). Some people really do live in their own little reality.

If anybody can find the video of the kid when he ran up the first time after the announcement that there would be no more questions, please post it. This is the one bit of the puzzle that I have been unable to find on video.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7426959 - 09/19/07 05:33 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

mind posting these transcripts, timelines, bar graphs, pie charts, frame by frames and etc?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7427017 - 09/19/07 06:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> mind posting these transcripts, timelines

Already have... in this very thread... I posted a transcript (that I wrote myself) with both descriptions of the events and times added in. I also posted a frame of the kid less than a second before he got tazed showing that his arm was free and not cuffed (opposite of one eyewitness account). I don't have bar graphs or pie charts, nor did I make any claim to have created such.

transcript

frame of kid immediately before getting zapped

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7427173 - 09/19/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

kotik writes:

Quote:

clear thinking while being assaulted by 6+ in uniform, and in the middle of a public forum, and IQ are two different things altogether. If you can't understand that, then you aren't qualified to comment on either.




and

Quote:

Some people (and I would imagine the type of person who yelps "help! help!") just have a complete brain shutdown, because of the shock of the moment. Again, there is no correlation between IQ and shock. You can draw the lines out all you want, but your mentioning "Down Syndrome" and etc. pretty much sums up how valid your argument is.




Thank you for proving my point.

If this guy has worked himself up to the point where he is so mentally disoriented (or, to use your words, is experiencing a "brain shutdown") that he can no longer understand the meaning of simple statements such as "Stop fighting or you'll get tasered," then clearly he is past the point where talking with him is a realistic option. All that is left for the security personnel to do is subdue him to the point where he can be restrained by cuffs -- for his own safety as well as that of everybody else near him -- and remove him from the venue.

As Seuss points out, one of the videos very clearly shows that at the point where he finally gets zapped, he has cuffs on just one wrist, and has managed (once again) to start flailing his arms around. That is an extremely dangerous situation even if the partially cuffed guy is acting rationally. And -- by your own characterization -- this guy isn't anywhere close to acting or thinking rationally.

I didn't spend ten hours (like Seuss did) reviewing videos and reading articles and blog posts about this incident, but I did spend maybe three hours so far on it. I have watched every video posted in this thread, repeatedly. We are fortunate that the event was so widely covered from so many angles because it shows quite clearly just how duplicitous some of the edited videos really are. They were quite clearly edited with the agenda of making the security personnel look as bad as possible. It's not until you watch the more complete ones (especially if you see four or five from different angles) that it becomes apparent this guy was acting like a dangerously unstable loon pretty much from the get-go.

Look, kotik, assume for the next few minutes that you're the senior security guard there. How would YOU have handled the guy once he'd broken free of the guards near the door of the auditorium and was trying to head back towards the microphone?

Would you have had your crew stop trying to grab him and just let him ping-pong around while you formed a line between him and the stage or would you have done the obvious thing and tackled him? If you say anything other than "take him down," may I be the first to say I'm grateful you weren't in charge of security there.

Once he was down, would you have just had your biggest guy sit on his chest for ten minutes or so while he gradually wore himself out, hollering and shrieking and flailing his arms around the whole time, or would you have directed your crew to cuff him? If you say anything other than "Cuff him," may I be the first to say I'm grateful you weren't in charge of security there.

When it became obvious that the guy was doing everything he could to prevent being cuffed, what's your next move? Whack him upside the head? Knee him in the groin? Have three of your crew sit on him till he exhausts himself fifteen minutes later, wailing at the top of his lungs the whole time? Or would you zap him, enabling you to quickly cuff the other arm, and hustle his ass out the door?

Come on, kotik -- I'm seriously interested in hearing your strategy for handling the guy. A guy who in your own words is going through a "complete brain shutdown" in a room full of innocent bystanders and a US senator.

*pulls up chair, starts munching popcorn*




Phred


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7427193 - 09/19/07 08:00 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
If this guy has worked himself up to the point where he is so mentally disoriented (or, to use your words, is experiencing a "brain shutdown") that he can no longer understand the meaning of simple statements such as "Stop fighting or you'll get tasered," then clearly he is past the point where talking with him is a realistic option.




again, you are mistaken. This kid did not work himself up into a state of shock. Shock is a common response to an unprovoked assault, especially to someone who is not used to being physically aggressive.

Quote:

I'm seriously interested in hearing your strategy for handling the guy. A guy who in your own words is going through a "complete brain shutdown" in a room full of innocent bystanders and a US senator.




LOL at the careful use of words. You make it seem like he was on edge, and now everyone was at risk of injury. The only people who assaulted anyone, and were a threat to safety were the security guards.

How would I have handled it? well that's easy. I wanted to hear what Kerry had to say about Skull and Bones as well. I would have pulled up a chair and waited for a response. Judging by the national outrage, and the guards being put on leave, it's obvious that their actions were NOT acceptable.


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Edited by kotik (09/19/07 08:01 AM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7427267 - 09/19/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

again, you are mistaken. This kid did not work himself up into a state of shock. Shock is a common response to an unprovoked assault, especially to someone who is not used to being physically aggressive.




Jesus wept!

Do you not even watch your own videos? The guy basically goes apeshit from the moment the first two security personnel touch him. He's leaping up in the air, bouncing all over the place, waving his arms all around (still clutching his precious book) from the get-go. He wasn't "assaulted" by any stretch of the imagination.

Once again, you make my point for me. If all that's necessary to throw this guy into a "brain shutdown" is to grab him by the arm, it's even MORE imperative to get him out of there!

Quote:

You make it seem like he was on edge, and now everyone was at risk of injury.




Good grief. We've been discussing this for days and you haven't even bothered to watch one of the videos yet. This guy wasn't just "on edge", he was full-on hysterical, as anyone who has taken the time to watch the videos will have to admit. Had he flipped out enough to take someone hostage or something? Perhaps not. But why take the chance?

Once again, you miss the obvious. Watch the big black guy hustle-bumping Meyers up the aisle as quickly as he can. Once they clear the aisle, he (big black guy) doesn't whip out his taser or his nightstick or mace or even handcuffs, he keeps the momentum going and steers Meyers towards the auditorium doors. It's not until Brain Shutdown Boy breaks away and tries to head back towards the stage that things get physical -- they take him down and try to cuff him.

All this genius had to do was keep heading toward the door and that would have been the end of it. But no -- he demonstrates unmistakeably once again that the only way he intends to leave the auditorium is under complete physical restraint. So be it.

Quote:

How would I have handled it? well that's easy. I wanted to hear what Kerry had to say about Skull and Bones as well. I would have pulled up a chair and waited for a response.




Then I repeat I am ever so glad there's no danger of you ever being head of a security detail at any public event I'm likely to attend.



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7427467 - 09/19/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

This is the BEST video of the tase thing, and you havent seen it yet

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: implee]
    #7427506 - 09/19/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:


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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7428386 - 09/19/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm actually getting kind of sick of this post.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
    #7428407 - 09/19/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

so why click on it?  I get sick whenever I eat raw onion.  So I don't.  :tongue2:


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7428597 - 09/19/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm a masocist

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7428664 - 09/19/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

How would I have handled it? well that's easy. I wanted to hear what Kerry had to say about Skull and Bones as well. I would have pulled up a chair and waited for a response.

Stop sidestepping Phred's question. If you sat down to listen, you would have lost your job. The question period was over and your boss asked you to remove a guy who refused to accept that the question period was over.

So, it's your job to keep order, your boss asked you to remove the guy, and the guy kept rushing the microphone.

You're up: How would you have handled things (and kept your job)?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7428676 - 09/19/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
So, it's your job to keep order, your boss asked you to remove the guy, and the guy kept rushing the microphone.

You're up: How would you have handled things (and kept your job)?




well, seeing how the officers involved are now on leave, and pending investigation - there really is no right answer. Id I didn't do anything (which is what I would have done) I'd lose my job. If I used a taser, I would lose my job. This is truly a lose lose situation.

This is not sidestepping. Hypothetically, you are a Nazi, and you must either shoot and kill a jewish family, and then be tried in court under war crimes. How do you keep your job as a Nazi? I mean come on...

and this IS valid, as I WAS in Military Security Forces, and I DID refuse to assault somebody. And I WAS reprimanded. And I would do it again, and again, and again.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7428689 - 09/19/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

They're suspended WITH PAY pending an investigation. They haven't lost their job. When the investigation is over, they'll be reinstated.

So, if I understand your answer, you would have just stood there after being asked to do your job and remove an unruly guy from the room? This explains a lot about you.

Wow, I'm glad you're not a cop.


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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7428704 - 09/19/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yes, you have that 100% correct.

I was in the same situation while in the military, and ordered to assault somebody. I refused, and was reprimanded.

I'm glad you are not in charge of sticking up for my rights.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7428722 - 09/19/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

So you're saying that simply removing the guy from the building goes against your conscience so much that you would give up your job rather than remove him from the building?

Is that correct?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7429019 - 09/19/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

no, but in this particular situation, I would have taken a seat. To me, a college kid with his arms in the air holding a book does not constitute a threat.

To you, perhaps - however I am very used to being around people, and I do not get intimidated from peaceful protests like this.

If I have to pick a way just to appease you, then fine. I would have bear hugged the kid, and carried him to an exit. If I got punched or kicked on the way there, so be it. If I got hit so hard that I was injured, I would probably sneak a few in myself.

Again, this was not a violent demonstration, and the best response thus far has been "he's a comedian, he deserved it, he planned it"

Well, apparently the news media, general public, police chief and john kerry all disagree with you. But I assume that's nothing new, and you may take pride in it. I would. Normally I'm on the other side of this coin.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7429164 - 09/19/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
p.s. i realize this is probably the most right-winged and anti-conspiracy site on the entire internet, including foxnews forums.  I figured I would post it anyways, just in spite.  :evil:




What you see as right wing, I see as rational people who see your paranoid rants and wonder if you're going to flip out and blow anything up.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Luddite]
    #7429261 - 09/19/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The day America stood up!

America's motto is no longer, "Don't tread on me," but




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Luddite]
    #7429275 - 09/19/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What you see as right wing, I see as rational people who see your paranoid rants and wonder if you're going to flip out and blow anything up.




who knows, i just might.  i'm also under the influence of drugs most of the time (imagine that, here of all places).  does that make it more comforting for you? :crazy2:

The fact that I believe this incident was wrong, in that a person was assaulted, then electrocuted (potentially lethal) for asking a question, and then trying to avoid being handcuffed.  It's not just the tasing, or the "omfg what about free speech?!?!" knee-jerk reaction.

This was a civil debate.  The kid was obviously asking questions that made everyone uncomfortable, and had to know that Kerry would dodge them anyways.  So in that regard, yes it was a show - to that extent.  I support that, in every way - because it would have shown the ignorant students that Kerry was ignoring the questions, and perhaps it would raise questions for them to look up on their own.

If my curiosity, and support for civil disobedience when necessary (say, at a political debate, in an academic setting, between two people that obviously wanted to continue) makes me irrational, and a threat to you, then so be it.  Quite ironic that you would call me paranoid.

Honestly, I am much more afraid of you guys, as you wouldn't think twice of throwing me into a cell to shut me up, as you disagree with what I have to say.  It's also obvious you are for torturing people, laughing and mocking the victim all the way.  Even going so far as to profess that complaining after being tased for 5 seconds is "putting on a show."

Christ, we are talking about US citizens here, not terrorists.  A student, asking a question in college, being assaulted, shocked, arrested and mocked.  I'll just re-emphasize that you guys scare the shit out of me, way more than I could imagine scaring you.


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Edited by kotik (09/19/07 05:59 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7429313 - 09/19/07 06:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I would have bear hugged the kid, and carried him to an exit.

Far increasing the chances of the kid or someone else being injured compared to a quick taser zap.

Take off your blinders. Tasers are not instruments of torture. They're a modern, safe, and effective police tool that does what it's designed for: preventing injuries.

You have things backward. Thuggish force is what's brutal, not using a taser.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7429390 - 09/19/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I would have bear hugged the kid, and carried him to an exit.

Far increasing the chances of the kid or someone else being injured compared to a quick taser zap.

Take off your blinders. Tasers are not instruments of torture. They're a modern, safe, and effective police tool that does what it's designed for: preventing injuries.

You have things backward. Thuggish force is what's brutal, not using a taser.




haha, and as predicted you just needed a quick response to pick apart. enjoy it, that was a bone i threw just for you. If you are satisfied now, I hope we can move past what actions I may or may not have done in a hypothetical situation, without actually knowing what it's like anyways. Seems a bit irrelevant to me, how either of us suppose we may or may not have acted.

if you can truly predict yours, and every other persons moves, than you are probably a) a ninja, and b) bored most of the time.

p.s. i own and have used a taser. also have a sig .40, .38 and a .22. I've used all those as well, along with a decent array of automatic rifles, and some classic remingtons. I'm also aware of how to restrain people, as I was assigned as an MP for a while, and had to go through all the extra training required.

The difference between taser / physical force is again hypothetical! Some people die from tasers. Nobody asks about heart conditions or anything like that before they tase you. Your, and my own preferences are completely subjective.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (09/19/07 06:34 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7429392 - 09/19/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The tazer is safe and prevents injury, except for when it causes injury and death.

http://blogs.zmag.org/ee_links/death_by_taser_lazy_cops_and_a_lazy_reporter

Care to a see a link about a schizophrenic in a wheel chair who was lethaly zapped?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7429424 - 09/19/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
The tazer is safe and prevents injury, except for when it causes injury and death.

http://blogs.zmag.org/ee_links/death_by_taser_lazy_cops_and_a_lazy_reporter

Care to a see a link about a schizophrenic in a wheel chair who was lethaly zapped?




but thats from 2005. how about a story from today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512

Quote:


Wed Sep 19, 9:38 AM ET
Wheelchair-Bound Woman Dies After Being Shocked With Taser 10 Times

A Clay County woman's family said it's seeking justice after their loved one died shortly after being shocked 10 times with Taser guns during a confrontation with police.

Officers said they arrived to find Delafield in a wheelchair, armed with two knives and a hammer. Police said the woman was swinging the weapons at family members and police.

Within an hour of her call to 911, Delafield, a wheelchair-bound woman documented to have mental illness, was dead.

Family attorney Rick Alexander said Delafield's death could have been prevented and that there are four things that jump out at him about the case.

"One, she's in a wheelchair. Two, she's schizophrenic. Three, they're using a Taser on a person that's in a wheelchair, and then four is that they tasered her 10 times for a period of like two minutes," Alexander said.

According to a police report, one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds and the other officer discharged his Taser gun once for a total of no more than five seconds.




edit: oops, i see you already noticed. lol

Quote:

Care to a see a link about a schizophrenic in a wheel chair who was lethaly zapped?




--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (09/19/07 06:39 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7429704 - 09/19/07 07:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The difference between taser / physical force is again hypothetical!

Nope.

From a document on taser statistics. PM if you want a copy for yourself:

--

The Orange County (Florida) sheriff's department recorded an injury rate drop of ~80% when they stopped manhandling suspects and began using tasers. Source: Orlando Sentinel July 29, 2002

The Phoenix PD recorded a 67% drop. Source: Report issued by the PPD December, 2003

The Glenn Country (California) sheriff's office reported a 100% drop in injuries in 2006 after they started using tasers. There were ZERO injuries the entire year. Source: Sgt. Todd James Sacramento PD, February 17, 2007.

Putnam County (Florida) sheriff reports an 86% drop in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Palatka Daily News, August 11, 2006

South Bend (Indiana) PD saw a drop of 66% in injuries since they started using tasers. Before, we used to have officers who got broken hands or broken arms - you name it - in physical altercations. Now, instead of having officers off for six months with various broken bones, the worst thing we see happening is officers with bad knees from chasing peopple". Source: Journal Gazette, March 6, 2006

And it goes on...

Austin Police officer injuries down 50%, suspect injuries down 82%. Source: Austin Chronicle Home, July 29, 2005

Charlotte-Mecklenburg PD: Officer injuries down 59%, suspect injuries down 79%.

Cape Coral (Florida) PD, officer injuries down 93%, suspect injuries down 68%.

Topeca, officers injuries down 46%, suspect injuries down 41%.

Sarasota (FLorida) PD. injuries down 65.

Hialeah (Florida) PD: Injuries down 95%

Omaha PD. Injuries down 47%

Garner (North Carolina) PD, down 38%

El Paso TX, down 59%

Cincinnati PD: officer injuries down 56%, suspect injuries down 35%

Columbus PD, officer down 23%, suspect down 24%.

Totonto: 100% drop in injuries. That's right, they went from putting many suspects and officers in hospitals with broken bones one year to ZERO injuries the next.

Oakland County: 100% drop in injuries.

Long Beach: 25% drop in injuries to officers, 33% drop for suspects.

And I'm only a quarter of the way through the document.

--

You guys are having an irrational knee-jerk reaction to the idea of an electric shock: The taser is electric, it shocks people, so it must automatically be a bad thing. Well, it's not. And it's way better than a billyclub.

You can bury your head in the sand all you like. The truth of the statistics won't go away: tasers prevent harm compared to brutish physical force.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7429761 - 09/19/07 07:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

lol, well if the police say their new toys are better... than I guess I'll just take their word for it.

I wonder where that lady in the wheelchair fit into those stats.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7429791 - 09/19/07 08:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

lol, well if the police say their new toys are better... than I guess I'll just take their word for it.

You make it seem like this is opinion. It's not. There are numbers behind it showing a clear reduction in injuries when tasers are used instead of brute force.

I wonder where that lady in the wheelchair fit into those stats.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. That tasers can be used improperly has no bearing on whether or not they are better than brute force for controlling suspects.

That lady in a wheelchair could have been stomped on by a brute police officer with a billyclub instead of assaulted with a taser. So what?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7429803 - 09/19/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You can bury your head in the sand all you like. The truth of the statistics won't go away: tasers prevent harm compared to brutish physical force.




I'm not arguing that though. I addressed your comment that tazers alone, are safe and harmless. They have injured and killed some people.

That is all.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7429815 - 09/19/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

They have injured and killed some people.

So have billyclubs and brute force. In the final analysis, fewer people are hurt when a taser is used verses when a bunch of cops manhandle a suspect into custody.

That's why they're used. To PROTECT suspects from injury.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7429848 - 09/19/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't argue that dip. If a person is posing a serious threat of physical harm to an officer, or other civilians the cops gotta do what he's gotta do to subdue him. I'm okay with billy clubs, or tazers in such a case. If they are apprehending at the scene of the crime, a rapist, child molester, or bank robber driving like a mad man down the highways, I don't care if they shoot them dead.

I just wanted to correct your statement that tazers are safe and harmless. In some instances they have caused injury and death.

That is all.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7430727 - 09/20/07 12:24 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> I just wanted to correct your statement that tazers are safe and harmless. In some instances they have caused injury and death.

I don't disagree. As I said in an earlier post, I wish police would treat a tazer as with more respect (from a lethal weapon standpoint). However, given the choice, I will take a tazer shock over a bullet any day of the week. Also, lets not forget that people die from being restrained as well. At the same time, this video shows just how effective a tazer can be. The kid was resisting for almost two minutes before getting tazed. After getting tazed, he is removed from the room in under ten seconds. Very effective. Once outside the auditorium, we see that the kid is fine, and is more worried about finding his book than having just been tazed.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7431068 - 09/20/07 04:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

that video was sick. the cops were on him like a pack of rabid dogs and THEY COULDN'T HANDLE THE SITUATION. yes, the guy HAD A RIGHT to ask those questions. and kerry had a right not to answer those. it was a dialogue between the candidate and the questioneer, but the cops fucked him up. it's a disgrace.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7431133 - 09/20/07 05:06 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> it was a dialogue between the candidate and the questioneer

There was no dialogue! The kid was in a manic ramble for 90 seconds, non-stop. A dialogue requires at least two people talking back and forth. Kerry couldn't get a word in, though he tried several times.

> the cops were on him like a pack of rabid dogs

Not until he started to resist arrest. There were only two officers, one on either side of him, initially. When he started to resist, then they swarmed him. Who's fault is this? The kids, not the police.

> the guy HAD A RIGHT to ask those questions

What questions? It took him over forty seconds to ask ONE question, but he didn't give Kerry a chance to answer. He rambled on for another forty seconds or so before the university official asked him to leave. At that point, he no longer had the right to stay and he no longer had the right to ask "those questions" at this venue. He was a guest, not a host.

> but the cops fucked him up

He did it to himself when he acted like a loon trying to get back to the microphone rather than leaving in a peaceful manner.

Again, I have no problem with the questions that he was asking, it was his behavior that was unacceptable. If he wanted to be taken seriously, then he should not have acted like a two year old child throwing a temper tantrum.


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OfflinePledge2Educate
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7431176 - 09/20/07 05:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Damn, let this god damn topic die already.
Or kiss my pups ass:


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Pledge2Educate]
    #7431191 - 09/20/07 05:38 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

There was no dialogue! The kid was in a manic ramble for 90 seconds, non-stop. A dialogue requires at least two people talking back and forth. Kerry couldn't get a word in, though he tried several times.




an overzealous kid? wow, taser him NOW. so what? these things happen and it could have resolved by non-violent means.

Quote:

Not until he started to resist arrest. There were only two officers, one on either side of him, initially. When he started to resist, then they swarmed him. Who's fault is this? The kids, not the police.




resisting arrest is a civic duty if you morally feel the arrest is unjustified. that means i would have resisted arrest also. it was absurd. he should have gone with them quietly? why did the cops even approach him? kerry should have handled him verbally. or the other students should have booed him to shut up. but almost all the students were like sheep.

maybe he was fired up but it was HIS way of asking them. not everyone speak like robots and act the same. even if he was a quack it didn't give authorities the right to ask him to fuck off. he wasn't showing aggression and violence much like the police.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7431227 - 09/20/07 06:16 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> these things happen and it could have resolved by non-violent means

Exactly.  Had the kid simply left when asked to leave by the host of the venue, then nothing would have happened to him.

> why did the cops even approach him?

Because the university official in the suit standing directly behind the kid and to the side of the cops told the cops to remove the kid.  You can see it clearly in one of the videos immediately before the cops start to move.

> maybe he was fired up but it was HIS way of asking them

Again... if he wanted to be taken seriously, then he needs to behave like a normal person. 

> kerry should have handled him verbally

Kerry was trying.  However, Kerry was just as much a guest of the event as was the kid.  Perhaps the host should have handled the situation differently, I don't know.

> he wasn't showing aggression and violence much like the police.

Yes he was.  Watch again.  He continually tries to get the police to let go of him.  He breaks away from the police and tries to run back to the microphone.  He jumps up, trying to get over the people blocking his way.  I don't think he intended violence, but he was certainly being aggressive... and when you behave in an aggressive manner around elected officials, the people in charge of protecting those officials have to assume the worst and remove the possible threat.

If the kid had simply gone up to the mic and asked his three questions without all the theatrics, or had the police acted without the direction of the university official, then I would be on your side and agree with you.  However, that is not what happened.  The kid brought this upon himself with his behavior.

> Damn, let this god damn topic die already.

When you are an admin of the site or a moderator of the forum, then you can tell me what to do.  Until then, if you don't want to read about it, then don't click on the thread.  :mad:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7432032 - 09/20/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
lol, well if the police say their new toys are better... than I guess I'll just take their word for it.

You make it seem like this is opinion. It's not. There are numbers behind it showing a clear reduction in injuries when tasers are used instead of brute force.




yes, and the source of those numbers? the very same people who benefit from them! Do you not see the obvious conflict of interest here? It's like I am using a cellphone at work, but then they give us iPhones to try out...

they ask "are the iphones making your job more efficient?"

now, regardless of the truth, I want to keep my iPhone. So guess what - my "numbers" will show how my efficiency has gone up.

Quote:



Damn, let this god damn topic die already.
Or kiss my pups ass:





whatever man, you've been a member for what, all of a week?


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (09/20/07 12:16 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7432209 - 09/20/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yes, and the source of those numbers?

This is usually the last resort of someone who's debating to be right instead of to find the truth, whatever it may be.

The source of those statistics is various disparate newspapers, journals, and official reports. If you think they're all in bed together in a taser conspiracy, then say so and provide evidence to support that.

I don't think you can.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7432238 - 09/20/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

This article says that 200 people have been killed by tasers so far. It also paints a different picture on their use. Very Disturbing

http://onemansblog.com/2007/09/17/the-tasering-will-continue-until-you-all-submit/

More disturbing is another Tasering incident which happened today in Ohio , I think it was. Just saw the video on the news. You tube videos I'm sure will be out soon.

Apparently , a woman wouldn't get out of her car when asked too. So the cop started tasing her through the open window. She managed to open the door, fall out and crawl dazed and confused, he starts tasering her more. She manages to get up then stumbles, and she gets tazered even more. She ended up unconscious from the tasering and in the hospital.

There was also mention of a woman who was already in handcuffs getting tasered, today. They didn't show a video clip of it though.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7432254 - 09/20/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

or the crippled schizophrenic that was killed by 10 shots from
a tazer while sitting in her wheelchair.

this 'non-lethal' alternative weapon has given cops an easier
means of flexing their dicks.

it's absurd.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7432271 - 09/20/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

This article says that 200 people have been killed by tasers so far.

But a higher proportion of people are killed and injured by being manhandled. Tasers are safer.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7432279 - 09/20/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

jiggy writes:

Quote:

Apparently , a woman wouldn't get out of her car when asked too. So the cop started tasing her through the open window.




There was a video making the rounds a year or so ago about an identical situation. In that video, it was obvious the woman was a total bitch completely in the wrong. Come to think of it, I believe there was even a thread about it in this forum, but I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.

Jiggy, you asked earlier how cops subdued people before stunguns and tasers were invented. So now I'll ask you how you think cops dealt with people like this woman say ten years ago, before they had such tools. What method do you think a cop from ten years back would have used to get this woman out of her car?




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7432496 - 09/20/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I was asking myself what a cop should do if someone won't get out of their car.

I would first want to know why she was pulled over, and what the cause was for wanting her to get out of the car.

News didn't say why she was.

At any rate, say he was all justified up until that point. A quick zap after a good amount of time trying to reason with her and numerous warnings, could get her out and it did.

Once she was out and laying on the ground, he continues zapping her until she is unconscious. It was totally unncessary.

That was the part that was disturbing to watch. I'll post it if I find it on youtube.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7432647 - 09/20/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/09/20/sinkovich.woman.tasered.wytv

Here is the full version. It happened Sept 2nd, and CNN requested the tape today for showing.

The bits I saw being repeated were of before she was in the back of the squad and handcuffed.

This is the full version video. She was out of line for kicking the window. I just saw that part now on this tape.

He also seemed to be unnecessarily tazing her, before and well after that though.

Heres' the thing Phred and Dip,

What if I get pulled over on a dark road at night. The cop says, "suck my dick or you're going to get tazed. "

Now what?

At least if I said, " Fuck you, and let him beat on me", I'd have proof with my bruises. If I got tazed into unconsciousness, what proof of police abuse do I have?

I don't think its the tazer vs the billy club that bothers me here. It's seeing how tazers can be used by Police who abuse their power and authority.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7432704 - 09/20/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

That was fucked up.

But that was abuse. Like any tool, tasers can be misused. That's not what happened at the Kerry speach.

What if I get pulled over on a dark road at night. The cop says, "suck my dick or you're going to get tazed. "

Again, the cop could do that to you with a billyclub. The taser isn't evil here. It's a tool and a good one, and like any tool it can be misused.

And the guy who got tased at the Kerry speach was tased entirely appropriately.

If I got tazed into unconsciousness, what proof of police abuse do I have?

There would be two small puncture holes on your skin as evidence. If the guy really wanted to rape you and leave no evidence, he wouldn't use a taser.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7433655 - 09/20/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


> have you been tased by a police-grade taser before?

Yep. The 50,000 volt stun guns are nothing. Hardly hurt. More shock value than anything else.




just found this video i thought was interesting.




--------------------
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Edited by kotik (09/20/07 06:15 PM)

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7433897 - 09/20/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The difference between taser / physical force is again hypothetical!

Nope.

From a document on taser statistics. PM if you want a copy for yourself:

--

The Orange County (Florida) sheriff's department recorded an injury rate drop of ~80% when they stopped manhandling suspects and began using tasers. Source: Orlando Sentinel July 29, 2002

The Phoenix PD recorded a 67% drop. Source: Report issued by the PPD December, 2003

The Glenn Country (California) sheriff's office reported a 100% drop in injuries in 2006 after they started using tasers. There were ZERO injuries the entire year. Source: Sgt. Todd James Sacramento PD, February 17, 2007.

Putnam County (Florida) sheriff reports an 86% drop in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Palatka Daily News, August 11, 2006

South Bend (Indiana) PD saw a drop of 66% in injuries since they started using tasers. Before, we used to have officers who got broken hands or broken arms - you name it - in physical altercations. Now, instead of having officers off for six months with various broken bones, the worst thing we see happening is officers with bad knees from chasing peopple". Source: Journal Gazette, March 6, 2006

And it goes on...

Austin Police officer injuries down 50%, suspect injuries down 82%. Source: Austin Chronicle Home, July 29, 2005

Charlotte-Mecklenburg PD: Officer injuries down 59%, suspect injuries down 79%.

Cape Coral (Florida) PD, officer injuries down 93%, suspect injuries down 68%.

Topeca, officers injuries down 46%, suspect injuries down 41%.

Sarasota (FLorida) PD. injuries down 65.

Hialeah (Florida) PD: Injuries down 95%

Omaha PD. Injuries down 47%

Garner (North Carolina) PD, down 38%

El Paso TX, down 59%

Cincinnati PD: officer injuries down 56%, suspect injuries down 35%

Columbus PD, officer down 23%, suspect down 24%.

Totonto: 100% drop in injuries. That's right, they went from putting many suspects and officers in hospitals with broken bones one year to ZERO injuries the next.

Oakland County: 100% drop in injuries.

Long Beach: 25% drop in injuries to officers, 33% drop for suspects.

And I'm only a quarter of the way through the document.

--

You guys are having an irrational knee-jerk reaction to the idea of an electric shock: The taser is electric, it shocks people, so it must automatically be a bad thing. Well, it's not. And it's way better than a billyclub.

You can bury your head in the sand all you like. The truth of the statistics won't go away: tasers prevent harm compared to brutish physical force.


what about incindental deaths, aint seen one statistiics report covering that issue.

a thousand brokekne bones is worht the life of one person who may be redeemed!


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7433923 - 09/20/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

We've already covered this. Read the thread.

Billyclubs and brutish force cause deaths too.

Any time people are taken down by force, be it by tackling them or tasing them, there are going to be some injuries and some deaths. This can't be helped.

What CAN be helped is how often it happens. And the statistics show that it happens less often with tasers than with brute force.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7433958 - 09/20/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
We've already covered this. Read the thread.

Billyclubs and brutish force cause deaths too.

Any time people are taken down by force, be it by tackling them or tasing them, there are going to be some injuries and some deaths. This can't be helped.


What CAN be helped is how often it happens. And the statistics show that it happens less often with tasers than with brute force.




sorry, I don' think the information you provided says that at all. show me where specifically it sites that.

electrocution, isn't that one a the three ways they execute people anymore?

so, again, don't imply my reading skills are poor, show me where it says the difference in death rates!


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7433987 - 09/20/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

sorry, I don' think the information you provided says that at all.

Are you saying that the statistics indicating a drop in injury rates for suspects when police departments start using tasers are false?


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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7434010 - 09/20/07 08:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

no, just manipulative.  :shrug:

imagine that, a p.r man is involved.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7434024 - 09/20/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The Orange County (Florida) sheriff's department recorded an injury rate drop of ~80% when they stopped manhandling suspects and began using tasers. Source: Orlando Sentinel July 29, 2002

That statistic was provided by a journalist, not an evil police PR department.

What part of that is manipulated?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7434061 - 09/20/07 08:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

call me crazy, but the journalist whop asked questions?

I guess he got it straight form the horses mouth, you know the ones who actually compiled the data?

what the fuck?

is that simple to fool diploid, prop some reporter in front of a whatever and say it came from a reporter?

Imagine Orange County Florida needing to some good publicity! Hard isn't it?

disney land and all?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7434086 - 09/20/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i think youre reaching. disney didnt pay off the police to pay off the reporter, to support tazering innocent students who uncover the illuminati secret.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: roby000]
    #7434129 - 09/20/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

roby000 said:
i think youre reaching. disney didnt pay off the police to pay off the reporter, to support tazering innocent students who uncover the illuminati secret.




cause we all Know the Owner of Disner\y land wasn'ta Mason.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7434141 - 09/20/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Imagine Orange County Florida needing to some good publicity! Hard isn't it?

OK, how about these:

South Bend (Indiana) PD saw a drop of 66% in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Journal Gazette, March 6, 2006

Putnam County (Florida) showed an 86% drop in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Palatka Daily News, August 11, 2006

Austin PD showed officer injuries down 50%, suspect injuries down 82% since they started using tasers. Source: Austin Chronicle Home, July 29, 2005


There are many more.

I guess he got it straight form the horses mouth, you know the ones who actually compiled the data?

You asked for statistics. I provided credible news sources. Now you backpedal and say that statistics don't count.

This is the type of response people have when they're trying to win a debate rather than trying to get at the truth, whatever it may be.


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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7434168 - 09/20/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Imagine Orange County Florida needing to some good publicity! Hard isn't it?

OK, how about these:

South Bend (Indiana) PD saw a drop of 66% in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Journal Gazette, March 6, 2006

Putnam County (Florida) showed an 86% drop in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Palatka Daily News, August 11, 2006

Austin PD showed officer injuries down 50%, suspect injuries down 82% since they started using tasers. Source: Austin Chronicle Home, July 29, 2005


There are many more.

I guess he got it straight form the horses mouth, you know the ones who actually compiled the data?

You asked for statistics. I provided reliable news sources. Now you backpedal and say that statistics don't count.

This is the type of response people have when they're trying to win a debate rather than trying to get at the truth, whatever it may be.




still haven't seen definition for "less injuries", or whatever. AL I see is a sheriff's office defending its use of electrocution. So , are you gonna give me the data I need to believe you? Cause I am totally willing when you show me some bullshit that wasn't some Sheriff's office vomit.

thanks/


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7434207 - 09/20/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure what you mean by "Sheriff's office vomit".

When there is an injury during an arrest (read: someone went to the hospital even if it's only a scratch), there is a public record at the police department, in the paramedic department that transported the injured, and at the hospital where they were treated.

These are public records maintained by independent agencies that are not under police department influence, and it's from these cross-verified sources that reporters get their statistics.

If you still want to cling to the idea that some massive taser conspiracy is skewing this public information and reporters across the nation are all being duped, well, I don't think there's anything I could come up with that would convince you. Your mind is made up and the truth isn't relevant.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7434222 - 09/20/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

By the way, I've done a lot of work satisfying your demand for statistics.

Your turn. Can you provide a link to a credible source indicating an increase in injury rates when a PD started using tasers??


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7434230 - 09/20/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

At this point it's pretty clear that there will be no satisfying the intrepid seeker of truth that is the _junk_bag. Because of the inconvenience of it all.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7434373 - 09/20/07 09:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Damn you Diploid. Why you gotta keep fucking up peoples opinions with facts?!

[speaks like The Waterboy's mom]Taser's is the devil![/speaks like The Waterboy's mom]


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7434780 - 09/20/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> still haven't seen definition for "less injuries"

When people are injured (damaged) while in police custody, they are taken to the hospital. It is appropriate, in this context, to read "less injuries" as a reduction in the number of cases requiring medical attention.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7435290 - 09/21/07 04:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

this thread makes me want to buy a taser, if nothing else.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7435399 - 09/21/07 05:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Jon Stewart said it best, "just an example of police overreaction and student deuschebaggery"


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7435401 - 09/21/07 05:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nakors_junk_bag said:
Quote:

roby000 said:
i think youre reaching. disney didnt pay off the police to pay off the reporter, to support tazering innocent students who uncover the illuminati secret.




cause we all Know the Owner of Disner\y land wasn'ta Mason.




lol oh PLEASE use disney as an example. Do you realize that whenever someone dies on disney property, they drive them outside of the property beore declared dead? Not a single person has been declared dead on Disney property, including people that really died there.

far cry from an illuminati operation, but a great example of how PR can affect the "truth."


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7435406 - 09/21/07 05:28 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
These are public records maintained by independent agencies that are not under police department influence, and it's from these cross-verified sources that reporters get their statistics.





uh.... doesn't sound like it.  perhaps you could clarify the verbiage used:

Quote:

Diploid said:
The Orange County (Florida) sheriff's department recorded an injury rate drop of ~80% when they stopped manhandling suspects and began using tasers. Source: Orlando Sentinel July 29, 2002




p.s. - Phred, Diploid, Zappa, Seuss?  I mean jesus - talk about going up against a wall.  it's usually a struggle with just one of you :smile:

at least a little credit to myself and nakor for even being able to put up with such nonsense for 10 pages :crazy2:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (09/21/07 05:30 AM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7435589 - 09/21/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It is possible to die from a taser shock, it can send the heart into shock. Around 150 people have died from tasers.


If you use a taser, you must be prepared to kill the person on the other end. If he would have died, what would those of you justifying this be saying?

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: xFrockx]
    #7435626 - 09/21/07 08:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

more random facts (sponsored by Disney):

What is the likelihood of being killed with a Taser?

Chance of death = Total number Taser deaths / Total number times of Taser used

Total number of times Taser used (in the US) = 200,000+
Number of deaths where Taser was a factor, according to coroners (in the US): 23+

(Why do the Greens/Maori Party/Amnesty keep using the ~180 figure? The 23+ is the official opinion of coroners, who's job it is to determine the cause of death and who are professionally trained to do so. The ~180 is simple correlation. This isn't an unprofessional opinion, it isn't even an opinion: In no way does the ~180 number substantiate any sort of causal link between the Taser and the deaths.)

Chance of death = ~0.012%

I thought 50,000 volts was pretty deadly?

The Taser is fundamentally different from, say, the electric chair, because it uses electrical energy to disrupt the nervous system, rather than to destroy tissue (i.e. Cook it). Because all it needs to do is to confuse muscles with random electrical signals to override the electrical signals from the brain, it only needs a very small current. The high voltage is necessary to send that current through the body, but it doesn't carry a lot of energy.

To use an analogy with water, voltage is the pressure of the water, rather than the volume of water. A high-voltage system like the Taser would be like a supersoaker - it's high pressure, but there's not really a heck of a lot of water coming at you.

For practical purposes, the voltage affects how likely the current will zap you, but not how much damage it will cause.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7435952 - 09/21/07 10:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Some one at another forum had this suggestion-


Quote:

I was thinking that perhaps the police should just make us all wear shock collars. Then they could just use all the cameras they're putting on the street corners to keep an eye on us.

We step out of line? BAM!




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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7435987 - 09/21/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

or why not connect it to the limbic system :smile:

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Arp]
    #7436597 - 09/21/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

shit, i doubt it will be that far off after RFID chips are inside all of us.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7437992 - 09/21/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Regardless of the kid's faults, he was there to ask questions.

As, a result of wanting answers, physical suffering was brought to him. (want answers = get pain)

This WAS a forum of political discussion. No one was threatened.

Why the police presence? So much fault found with the kids interaction with the police.... But WHY the police presence? Why like that? Why police hovering over people at the microphone? It isn't kosher to act up in the presence of police.... But what if there are police EVERYWHERE....even at the front lines of the democratic process! You people are like a bunch of stoners who have learned nothing except self-survival. Don't cross your eyes when the pigs are around (because they might find the drugs).

Security? Security!?!?!?!!!!(Nevermind the possible gunman sitting discreetly in the 2nd row....) We have to hover over the person at the microphone?!?!?!!! The person trying to make democracy happen?!?!?!?!?!

ONE guy wanting a question answered...wanting to express his dissapproval, his disenfranchisement. Hell, democrats have laid down TWO elections in a row to the worst president ever. I ALSO feel disenfranchised by the democrats! If more people could see it through my eyes, an Independent might have a shot.

Anyone doing engagements as long as Kerry knows that some people get excited in their efforts to make a point. And *gasp* sometimes engagements run over and certain people get "pushy" about wanting to be heard. Local agencies need to be informed about the nature of the political forum.

No skull n bones conspiracies necessary.....
What I see is the clearcut crystalization of a police state. A police state that has more validity than the political process.

AND a would be president standing by and not being too overly concerned about it. If anything will deliver Kerry from the image of his hippy past that looms in the minds of people who actually vote, his handwashing over this incident will do it. You want a conspiracy.... THERE you go. Maybe the student was WITH Kerry.

So many points about what a whack job this kid was. Well, if he was so fucking unique....deal with him as one SHOULD be dealt with in a political forum.... and then get on with the rest of the normal people....or go home....because chances are there is only ONE person quite that pushy in any small crowd....the rest would just say "Oh shucks...maybe next time."


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7438068 - 09/21/07 07:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Some one at another forum had this suggestion-



Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking that perhaps the police should just make us all wear shock collars. Then they could just use all the cameras they're putting on the street corners to keep an eye on us.

We step out of line? BAM!







Actually, that sounds expensive. We only need a small volume of such shock collars which would periodically be shifted around the population. The we could post videos of the people receiving their punishment and talk about what fools they are for misbehaving. One only need watch this Taser video to see how quickly people formerly willing to heckle the student suddenly became empathetic with him when faced with the visceral reality of electrocution. Merely by watching others fitted with the shock collar, we would all come around to understanding that disobedience is not the way to go, right?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7438303 - 09/21/07 09:09 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Related to the subject:

http://tazeelo.ytmnd.com/


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7438546 - 09/21/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Regardless of the kid's faults, he was there to ask questions.




No he wasn't. He was there to make a speech in front of a captive audience.

Quote:

As, a result of wanting answers, physical suffering was brought to him. (want answers = get pain)




He didn't want answers. He wanted attention. And he got it.

Quote:

Why the police presence? So much fault found with the kids interaction with the police.... But WHY the police presence? Why like that? Why police hovering over people at the microphone?




Do you really want to know why? Because if you do, it's easy enough to find out. Read what this guy had done before the cameras started rolling and you'll know why the University cops were a little closer than usual. http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/19/document-drop-the-andrew-meyer-taser-stunt-police-report/

And that's just what he was up to at that event. As I said before, the guy is well known on campus for several previous stunts.

Or are you just asking "why" for effect... as a setup to your own little speech.

But hey... the kid played everyone perfectly. There are now "Don't Tase Me, Bro!" t-shirts being sold everywhere, his previously ignored website is swamped with hits, and he'll probably get an offer to replace Rosie O'Donell on "The View". Just kidding about that last bit. Or maybe not. He could hardly do worse than Rosie, after all.

See http://www.hogonice.com/2007/09/meyer_is_no_lemon.html




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7438615 - 09/21/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If being tased is your idea of attention, you must have had a strange childhood. Yes, people go to these things to be heard. At least they used to. Apparantly now they go to have their fear of the police as well as their own political inaction validated.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7438687 - 09/21/07 10:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If being tased is your idea of attention, you must have had a strange childhood.




So you didn't check out the links I provided. Why am I not surprised?

As for Andrew Meyers's childhood, no matter how strange it was it doesn't excuse his behavior.

Quote:

Yes, people go to these things to be heard. At least they used to.




No, people go to these things to hear what the featured speaker has to say. At least they used to. Now some go there to be attention whores. "Look at me! Listen to me!"

Quote:

Apparantly now they go to have their fear of the police as well as their own political inaction validated.




This guy went with every intention of causing a scene. That's why he had his friend standing by ready to tape the whole thing from a foot away. That's why he bullied everyone into making an exception to the pre-announced format just for him. That's why at the first touch on his arm he went ballistic.

Anyone who acts the way this clown did is either mentally unbalanced (so, by definition, requiring closer than usual attention from security staff) or putting on an act for his own agenda.



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7438704 - 09/21/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I personally think both are in the wrong here. The police's use of force was a bit excessive.. at the point where he's begging them not the tase him, it should be evident that he was willing to comply at that point. At the same time, it did appear as if he was putting up a struggle against being escorted.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Basilides]
    #7438738 - 09/21/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I personally think both are in the wrong here. The police's use of force was a bit excessive.. at the point where he's begging them not the tase him, it should be evident that he was willing to comply at that point.




Then you haven't watched all the videos yet. In one video it is crystal clear that he was NOT willing to comply. He was resisting as strenuously as he could having his second hand cuffed. That's not my opinion, it's a fact. Watch the video for yourself. So they zapped him, got his other hand in cuffs, and marched him out.

Here's the thing... by the time you're on the ground with half a dozen cops on you and the cuffs are out, you ARE going to be cuffed. The option of leaving with your hands free is no longer on the table. That ship has sailed.

His actions once outside the auditorium are significant as well. I suggest you read the link I provided a few posts up -- the one at michellemalkin.com.




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7439317 - 09/22/07 04:56 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Do you really want to know why? Because if you do, it's easy enough to find out. Read what this guy had done before the cameras started rolling and you'll know why the University cops were a little closer than usual. http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/19/document-drop-the-andrew-meyer-taser-stunt-police-report/

And that's just what he was up to at that event. As I said before, the guy is well known on campus for several previous stunts.

Or are you just asking "why" for effect... as a setup to your own little speech.




I just love the smell of ad hominem in the morning.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7439819 - 09/22/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

Phred said:
Do you really want to know why? Because if you do, it's easy enough to find out. Read what this guy had done before the cameras started rolling and you'll know why the University cops were a little closer than usual. http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/19/document-drop-the-andrew-meyer-taser-stunt-police-report/

And that's just what he was up to at that event. As I said before, the guy is well known on campus for several previous stunts.

Or are you just asking "why" for effect... as a setup to your own little speech.




I just love the smell of ad hominem in the morning.




What?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7439839 - 09/22/07 09:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I JUST LOVE THE SMELL OF AD HOMINEM IN THE MORNING.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7439845 - 09/22/07 09:22 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

What ad hominem.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7439854 - 09/22/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

There was nothing ad hominem about that at all dude.

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7439904 - 09/22/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Phred,
I wasn't talking about Andrew Meyers' childhood.
I was talking about yours. You interpreted this episode as the satisfaction of his need for attention. Thusly, in your mind, being tased equals getting attention, which makes me wonder about you.

I'm not interested in Andrew Meyers' background. AT ALL! NOTHING in his background is going to justify what I see in this video- which is pain and physicality unfairly being brought to a forum that should be about the exchange of ideas. Some may not have enjoyed the cadence of the exchange in the few moments leading up to the incident- it may have seemed to one-sided but- so what? It was still a discussion turned into a physical assault. It would be like if you decided that you didn't like the way I argued on this message board and was able to track down where I live and came over to assault me. Entirely Inappropriate! So, no! I'm not researching into this character's background. It's really not about him OR his particular theories. To me its about people who should be highly disciplined in restraint failing to show any and a world largely shrugging its shoulders about that. I don't believe in blaming victims.

Let's assume for a moment that this student WAS the latest incarnation of Satan. Isn't that all the MORE reason that the police and the moderators should have been ready and in their best form? What I saw was NOT best form. If it had been, this would NOT be an 11 page thread. By allowing a dissenter to be dragged away from a political forum and electricuted- by not taking a more reasoned approach- democracy has taken a hit. The police state has asserted its authority over democracy. We can't stomach Ahmadinajad visiting ground zero for fear he may hold his mouth wrong, but its okay if we are made to watch a disenfranchised person being made to physically suffer at the mention of his disenfranchisement in front of the runner-up president? TOTALLY FUCKED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7440217 - 09/22/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You interpreted this episode as the satisfaction of his need for attention. Thusly, in your mind, being tased equals getting attention, which makes me wonder about you.




I didn't "interpret" this episode as resulting from Meyers's need for attention, I researched the facts, then provided a link for others who wished to do the same. I was well aware when I posted that link that there would be some readers not interested in fact. I didn't know at the time that you in particular would be one of them. Now I do. We all do.

Quote:

I'm not interested in Andrew Meyers' background. AT ALL!




Of course you aren't. It's much easier to base one's views on incomplete data. Less thinking required.

Other readers of this thread have noted that part of Meyers's "background" revealed at the link I provided is the events which occurred in the minutes immediately before the film starts rolling, not his childhood. But those other readers do have an interest in fact.

You had wondered why the officers were hovering so close to him. The link tells of what he had already done at the event to warrant their attention.

Despite your repeated questions -- "Why the police presence? So much fault found with the kids interaction with the police.... But WHY the police presence? Why like that? Why police hovering over people at the microphone?" -- you show no inclination at all to actually discover the answer. Like Meyers, your asking of the questions is merely a cover for your own speech. In Meyers's case, he made the speech before asking the questions. In your case you asked the questions before making the speech, but in neither case is the goal to get the questions answered.

Quote:

NOTHING in his background is going to justify what I see in this video- which is pain and physicality unfairly being brought to a forum that should be about the exchange of ideas.




Then you haven't bothered to even watch the same videos the rest of us have, much less read the information at the link I provided which fills in what occurred both before and after the film was rolling. Anyone who watches the video can see the reason he was tasered had nothing to do with the speech he made or the questions he asked.

Quote:

It was still a discussion turned into a physical assault.




It wasn't a discussion -- it was a harangue. And it wasn't a physical assault until Meyers turned it into one.

Quote:

It would be like if you decided that you didn't like the way I argued on this message board and was able to track down where I live and came over to assault me.




Yeah, buddy... it was EXACTLY like that <sarcasm>.

Quote:

So, no! I'm not researching into this character's background.




Not even his "background" (which a normal person would call behavior) from the ten minutes before the film starts rolling? Or his behavior once he was out of view of the video cameras? Why am I not surprised?

Quote:

It's really not about him OR his particular theories.




I agree it's not about his beliefs or theories. It's about his behavior.

Quote:

By allowing a dissenter to be dragged away from a political forum and electricuted- by not taking a more reasoned approach- democracy has taken a hit. The police state has asserted its authority over democracy.




Oh, please. Could you be any more hysterical? Are we going to be treated to the spectacle of you being tasered on video in the next few weeks, too? This has nothing to do with "the police state" asserting its "authority over democracy". It's nothing more than another example of an asshat throwing a hissy fit for his audience. Don't try to inject any deeper significance into the incident than that.

Quote:

...its okay if we are made to watch a disenfranchised person being made to physically suffer at the mention of his disenfranchisement...




Meyers wasn't allowed to vote in the 2004 election? What's your source for that part of his "background", please.

Quote:

... in front of the runner-up president?




Bwahahaha! "Runner-up president"!

Good grief. That's the first time I've ever heard of the loser of a presidential election being called a "runner-up president," and I've been following US presidential elections since 1968. Runner-up president... like if Bush becomes unable to perform his duties before his term ends, the runner-up steps in, same as Miss Universe contestants.

Sometimes I wonder why I've hung around this forum for more than six years now, reading the same hackneyed catch-phrases over and over. And then I'll come across a phrase like "runner-up president" and after I clean the droplets of orange juice off my screen I realize I can never leave.

Runner-up president. That's a classic right there, I tell you what!



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7440348 - 09/22/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SCleROTiUM_LICK said:
I'm not interested in Andrew Meyers' background.  AT ALL!  NOTHING in his background is going to justify what I see in this video- which is pain and physicality unfairly being brought to a forum that should be about the exchange of ideas.  Some may not have enjoyed the cadence of the exchange in the few moments leading up to the incident- it may have seemed to one-sided but- so what?  It was still a discussion turned into a physical assault.




:thumbup:

precisely.  so any mention of his background of doing "stunts" is irrelevant, and an ad hominem attack.  It's no different as to discrediting him based on the types of movies he wrote about.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7440349 - 09/22/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It might as well be a pageant if one of two contestants is going to throw it each time around.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7440392 - 09/22/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:

:thumbup:

precisely.  so any mention of his background of doing "stunts" is irrelevant, and an ad hominem attack.  It's no different as to discrediting him based on the types of movies he wrote about.




That's an interesting perversion of ad hominem.  Is every employee background check thus also an ad homien?  Is it ad hominem to distrust a previously committed thief and liar?  Is it ad hominem select an athlete based on past performance?  Is it ad hominem to consider high school grades when considering a student for college? 

What overweening nonsense.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7440429 - 09/22/07 12:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Does this kid have a history of being violent, or just being a "jokester?" If he does in fact have a record of being violent, or starting riots - than I was mistaken, otherwise I stand by my interpretation of this discrediting as ad hominem. "He's a comedian, whatever he says is worthless, therefore not valid."


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7440457 - 09/22/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

kotik writes:

Quote:

precisely. so any mention of his background of doing "stunts" is irrelevant, and an ad hominem attack.




No, my providing the link is not irrelevant when it comes to the question asked over and over again of WHY the security personnel were close at hand when Meyer was at the microphone. There's more at the link than just his reputation of pulling attention-seeking stunts, there is also (as I have pointed out several times) testimony regarding his behavior at the event in question immediately before and immediately after the film segments.

Apparently, this question of "Why" is of considerable importance to our friend SCleROTiUM_LICK, hence his impassioned and repetitive plea for knowledge, to wit:

Quote:

Why the police presence? So much fault found with the kids interaction with the police.... But WHY the police presence? Why like that? Why police hovering over people at the microphone?




Why, why, why, why? Four "Why"s there in a pretty short space. Although our thoughtful friend makes every effort through repetition and emphasis to convince us of the importance of this question, it turns out he doesn't consider it so important that he actually wants it answered. Hence my observation that his tactics are fundamentally identical to those of Meyers -- the point isn't to get questions answered, the point is to put on a show.

Kotik, I realize that you (like S_L) will also not bother informing yourself of what transpired before and after the cameras were rolling, but you should realize that other readers here have bothered to do so. My advice to you is to go to the link I provided and read it through before making your next post. It will save you further embarassment.

Up to you.




Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7440468 - 09/22/07 01:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

He has a history of staging disruptive pranks.
You have no conception of what ad hominem means or when it is applicable. Refuting a persons argument about say tax policy by citing their past child molestation conviction is ad hominem. That same citation might not be irrelevant to an Age of Consent discussion. The whore's past behavior of just this kind of activity is neither ad hominem nor irrelevant when questioning his motives. The point being so clearly made is that he was NOT some poor schmuck merely interested in asking a question. He was a polished and professional nuisance.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7440481 - 09/22/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

"He's a comedian, whatever he says is worthless, therefore not valid."




Why is it so impossible for you to grasp that it's not what he says that is at issue, but his behavior? Anyone who watched those videos can see he got zapped not for asking about Skull and Bones, or even for doing an infomercial on the "excellence" of Greg Palast as an investigative journalist (that still cracks me up, by the way), but for being an asshat -- the sombrero of asshats, to be more accurate.

The guy was flailing all over the place, resisting to the utmost of his ability being ejected. And -- as his behavior once out of the venue reveals -- he wasn't really panicked at all. His behavior inside was calculated. It was a show.



Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7440784 - 09/22/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The guy was flailing all over the place, resisting to the utmost of his ability being ejected. And -- as his behavior once out of the venue reveals -- he wasn't really panicked at all. His behavior inside was calculated. It was a show.




But WHY was he being ejected from the political process?  What is so wrong with his voice that it can only be sampled, but never heard? 

Don't tell me about his past. He laid it out well enough for himself.  He felt disenfranchised.  Betrayed by Kerry.  So do others.  Deal with it!

Better yet... deal with it like a politician... flap your jaws a little.... everyone has seen a politician in action... and this WAS a political venue.  If you think he's dispicable...tell him he's dispicable....if the use of the word "blowjob" discredits him for eternity... tell him that he is discredited for eternity.  But keep your paws off! 

So he is the "sombrero of asshats"?!??!!!!  Every event of this nature should make allowances for such dignitaries.  :rolleyes:  Seriously!  The MORE psychologically unique you make him out to be then the LESS of an argument you have for changing the nature of the game (turning a discussion into a wrestling match) simply for his sake alone.  And if the police had so much foreknowledge of his crazy nature, then everyone should have been on the same page as to how to deal with him without offending Americans everywhere and turning this into an obscene passion play with democracy as the crucified Christ.  Nobody would care about this person if he were simply blogging somewhere about how he was denied entry into this event because he's such a loose canon and physical menace that everyone feared it would end in a legitimate tasing.


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Edited by SCleROTiUM_LICK (09/22/07 03:05 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7440789 - 09/22/07 03:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Prove to me that it was a fake taser. And I'll agree that it was all "a show".


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7440856 - 09/22/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

:acslater:


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7440898 - 09/22/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

But WHY was he being ejected from the political process?




Because the sponsors of the event -- NOT the cops -- got tired of his shenanigans. And he wasn't ejected from the "political process", he was ejected from an event that the organizers had declared was over.

Quote:

Don't tell me about his past.




Heaven forbid I tell you about his past from five minutes before the cameras start rolling. Completely irelevant <sarcasm>. Heaven forbid I tell you about his "future" -- i.e. the startling change in his demeanor the instant he knows there are no longer cameras on him. Completely irrelevant. <sarcasm>

Quote:

He felt disenfranchised.




Fuck me, was this clown even old enough to vote in the 2004 elections? "Disenfranchised" by being born too late. How tragic! What he feels is not an excuse for acting like an asshat.

Quote:

And if the police had so much foreknowledge of his crazy nature...




It wasn't foreknowledge, it was simple observation. You still haven't bothered to read the testimony regarding his actions five minutes before the video camera was turned on, I see. Why am I not surprised?

I realize you are content to lead a fact-free existence. Not all of us are.

Quote:

... then everyone should have been on the same page as to how to deal with him without offending Americans everywhere...




Offending Americans everywhere? I know you prefer to live the fact-free life, but if you look at the reaction of Americans (even in CNN online polls... and don't try to tell me CNN caters to the right wing) in their comments, the majority of respondents say the same thing I do -- the guy is an asshat who brought it all on himself.

Quote:

...and turning this into an obscene passion play with democracy as the crucified Christ.




Oh good grief. Could you possibly be any more hysterical? "Obscene passion play". "Democracy" as the "crucified Christ". Gag me with a spoon. This guy isn't the Messiah, he's just a buffoonish college student drama queen attention whore.

There's no point continuing a discussion with someone who refuses to inform themselves of exactly what happened. It's impossible to reason someone out of a postion he never reasoned himself into in the first place. Despite what the Lefties would have you believe, emotions are not tools of cognition.



Phred

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7441541 - 09/22/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Prankster....Trickster...attention whore......political film maker....whatever...this student WAS engaging in a political process.  I'm certain he thought he was entering into an arena for ideas upon arriving, which is what the place should have been.  I'm certain he did not think he was entering into the Thunder Dome, which is what it turned into.

I also don't think he grasped how the place had turned from discussion hall to Thunder Dome.  When he tried to escape, when he addressed the audience, he was addressing the political arena, not the unfortunate inescapable reality of the Thunder Dome. Sure, as he left, he realized that he had just been ejected from the Thunder Dome.  I'm sure it felt surreal.

I'm sure the guy thinks he's a giant in the world of ideas...in the world of politics.  He probably has a ready made solution for each of life's problems.  Hence the arrogance, hence the pushiness and insistence on being heard.

Some people just see a lose cannon resisting arrest.  I see a determined orator fighting to overcome a "technical difficulty" at a political function, as if it were no more than a malfunctioning microphone. I Don't believe the guy thinks himself a giant in the world of Thunder Dome.  I don't anticipate him physically resisting a legitimate arrest like drug possession or tax evasion because of some belief that might makes right.  Like I said previously, he didn't grasp exactly the fact of the discussion dome turning into the Thunder Dome.  The applause only added to the confusion.  Some of it was undoubtedly political level applause.  Some of it was undoubtedly Thunder Dome applause.  He heard political applause and responded to political applause.  Perhaps in a sense he is blind, blinded by the importance of the message he believes himself to be carrying inside.

He could have "gone" easier.  Sure.  He probably sees that now.  But WHY did he have to go at all?  Why DOES the discussion hall become the Thunder Dome?  WHY does it go from ideas and books and arrogant attitudes to grabbing and tasing and hauling someone away?

Answer:  Because the police were just TOO involved.  As they often are in our lives.  We've ALL dealt with people who were aggressive about getting a particular parking space or being next to check out at the grocery store.  Did the world come to an end because law enforcement wasn't there with a taser?  No.  Nor would it have come to an end if the police hadn't been at this event.  He would have blathered on for maybe another minute or two and eventually John Kerry would have got in an answer.  I assume Kerry's own stalling was the biggest obstacle.  The kid was wordy, but eventually we all do breathe.  Perhaps there would have been a round or two of this, but eventually the kid would have either embarrassed himself or got Kerry to say something that the kid would have found sufficiently incriminating.  Or, having raised enough interest in himself, he would have just plugged another book, his website, or a presidential candidate and moved on, maybe with a gesture like this:  :rockon: We should all be accustomed to spam by now and the answer to spam is defintiely not tasing.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7441845 - 09/22/07 09:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

From http://blogometer.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/09/919_why_the_tas.html --

Quote:

Why The Taser Bro Has Done Us All A Favor

Those under the delusion that the tasering of that FL student is a "iconic turning point" "in the annals of a closing society" need to get a hold of themselves and study up on the incident. The kid involved has a long history of taping practical jokes and by eye-witness accounts only fought police when the cameras were on him. Taser Bro is not a free speech martyr: he is just the latest example of traditional media rewarding abject narcissism at the cost of public political discourse.

Unfortunately Taser Bro is not an isolated incident, and unless the media wises up fast they should expect more and more campaigns to shut off candidates from the public in response. For example, in '06 blogger Mike Stark, who was tackled by ex-Sen. George Allen (R-VA) staffers, admitted that he attended Allen events for the sole purpose of hoping to cause embarrassing altercations. For every macaca video out there that sheds justifiable light on a candidate, there are going to be ten provocateurs seeking to disrupt public events in the hopes of becoming the next YouTube hero. The next time someone disrupts an event, before anyone gives them a second of coverage, let's first ask if this is just another Taser Bro.




There's no Thunder Dome here. Just another narcissistic moonbat playing to the gallery.

Quote:

He could have "gone" easier. Sure. He probably sees that now. But WHY did he have to go at all?




Because time was up. That's how these events work.

What about all the other people who were in front of Taser Bro? The ones who sat down. What makes their questions any less worthy of being asked than Taser Bro's? The fact of the matter is, their questions weren't any less worthy. From the quality of Taser Bro's questions, it is hard to see how their (unasked) questions could possibly have been less worthy than his gibberish. They just decided it wasn't worth throwing a hissy fit in front of a room full of people when their desires were thwarted.

Is that how you want to see these events handled from now on -- the organizers must allow ALL questioners to ask their questions, no matter how long it takes? And each questioner gets to pimp his favorite book -- be it by Al Franken or Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh or Noam Chomsky -- before launching into a "background" speech, then finally asking three questions in a row (and probably expecting to ask three more followups if he/she doesn't like the answers)?

Yeah, that'll work.

"Bob, we have an opportunity here to book Nelson Mandela next month, but he'll draw a HUGE crowd. Probably be anywhere from ten to twelve dozen people anxious to ask questions when he's done speaking. At five minutes per person, that's... umm... about a ten hour question period. So I guess we cross Mandela off the list. Who else we got?"

"Well, there's the new county dog catcher. She's black and a lesbian and a vegan to boot, so there'll be no Republicans wanting to attend. Not many Independents either. Maybe ten or twelve questioners. So say an hour for the question and answer period?"

"Great. Book her."








Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7441968 - 09/22/07 09:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Breaking news from Scrappleface: http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2692

Quote:

Kerry Recovers After Tasered Student Rescue

by Scott Ott

(2007-09-19) — Sen. John Kerry, D-MA, today says he believes that he has fully recovered from any injuries he may have sustained during his attempted rescue of a University of Florida student who was tasered by police during the senator’s speech at the school earlier this week.

Although the former presidential candidate’s initial statements indicated he was not aware that Andrew Meyer had been tasered until he read news accounts, “upon reviewing the video I noticed that I had instinctively attempted to disarm the aggressors by producing a low-pitched monotone sound from my throat — a tactic I perfected to scare off Charlie in the jungles of Cambodia. Apparently it worked. They left.”

Asked if he was alarmed by the incident, Mr. Kerry, a professional Vietnam veteran, said, “After all the action I saw in ‘Nam, a little scuffle like this don’t faze me, bro.”

In related news, dozens of eyewitnesses have reported that, until they saw news coverage of the event, they didn’t realize that a U.S. Senator had been in the room.




How true. This is the most coverage a Kerry speech has received in years, and none of that coverage is about anything Kerry actually droned... err... said.


Phred


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
    #7442041 - 09/22/07 10:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I love this thread! :grin:


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) *DELETED* [Re: Phred]
    #7442250 - 09/22/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by roby000

Reason for deletion: s

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: roby000]
    #7442352 - 09/23/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Part of me doesn't believe the attitude in this thread.. have you guys even seen the longer version? I thought a President or Congressman was supposed to be for the people?

&e

How come all your attention is focused on the tasering and the disturbance and not the fact that the Skull and Bones question was never answered? In the MSNBC broadcast it was side stepped and even here it isn't even being acknowledged. The implications of the Skull and Bones theory (I personally believe it to be legit. see: skull and bones, 322, freemasons, yale university fraternities) are that the whole democratic system of the United States is a puppet show. Many will probably jeer.. but could this mans outburst not be a microcosm of the Boston Tea Party?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: WScott]
    #7442366 - 09/23/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Also, on the CNN website that is about this, just look at the comments. All perfect grammar. They all seem the same style.. and guess what? New comments have been DISABLED.

Something isn't right.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: WScott]
    #7447529 - 09/24/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I must say I read at least 20 articles about this and not one of them mentioned Kerry's answer to the question.

was the tasing necessary? I don't think so. That big black dude could have lifted the kid by his shoulders, taken him outside to the curb, "Don't come back", and close the door. It could have been that simple. I quiet, clean removal from the premesis. The shit that went down instead, was unprofessional. The whole point in handling these matters is to avoid a scene, which those cops failed miserably at.

as far as: 'the kid was resisting goes', give me a break. Police can make it look, to a camera, as if someone is resisting in order to justify using force, the same way police can get a drug dog to false alert in order to justify an illegal search. I see them do this all the time on cops:

police: "STOP RESISTING"
suspect: "I'm NOT!"
police: bzzzzzzzzztt

later, in court:
police: "You see, here in the video, it doesn't look like the suspect is out of control, but he was actually applying pressure against me."

bullshit.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wps]
    #7447563 - 09/24/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

oh yeah, and I must say this as well:

it seems to me that these 'political q & a's' are complete bullshit, in that all the questions are read beforehand and pre-approved. In the you-tube debates, all the candidates had access to the questions before the debate. So it seems that there is no longer such a thing as a spontaneous dialogue between politicians and voters. Everything is staged. It seems to me that this kid was merely protesting against this bullshit. I say, 'more power to him.'

maybe if they let people ask any question, instead of filtering out the 'objectionable' questions beforehand, this kind of 'rushing the stage' behavior wouldn't have to happen? When you censor people in a political forum, WTF do you expect is going to happen?


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wps]
    #7447586 - 09/24/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> It could have been that simple.

It could have, but Meyer (the kid) wouldn't allow it to be that simple. Instead, he ran forward (towards the exit) to get away from his escort, then tried to jump around them (over, and to their right side) to get back to the mic. The
"big black dude" was simply pushing him out before that, being nice. When being nice and simple stopped working, the police used force.

> Police can make it look, to a camera, as if someone is resisting in order to justify using force, the same way police can get a drug dog to false alert

You need more than a break if you believe what you just typed. The kid (Meyer) was on the ground. The police are trying to handcuff him. Four police are trying to hold the kid down while one other is watching their back and a sixth is trying to get handcuffs latched. The sixth cop manages to get ONE wrist locked in the handcuff when the kid pushes up, making it halfway to his feet, with four cops trying to hold him down. How much more do you need before you call it resisting? Watch the camera angle from the microphone and watch it frame by frame if you doubt me. It is very clear. It wasn't until Meyers (the kid) started to stand up with the four cops, including the "big black dude," trying to hold him down, with one wrist handcuffed and the other free, that the taser was used.

> I must say I read at least 20 articles about this and not one of them mentioned Kerry's answer to the question.

The transcript I produced includes Kerry's response. It was something along the lines of "... what he asked is an important question. It is too bad that he is not available to swear me in as president."


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7447612 - 09/24/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I could easily make a video that convincingly depicted me, trying in vain to lift a styrofoam cup. Huffing and puffing away, grunting and squealing, oh man, its just too heavy, I give up. Still doesn't PROVE that I can't lift the cup.

I still can't believe that 6 people, trained officers, could not manage to get that kid into cuffs. bullshit.

Quote:

> I must say I read at least 20 articles about this and not one of them mentioned Kerry's answer to the question.

The transcript I produced includes Kerry's response. It was something along the lines of "... what he asked is an important question. It is too bad that he is not available to swear me in as president."




Don't skirt the issue. I was referring to Kerry's response to the skull & bones question, not the question about his concession.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wps]
    #7447904 - 09/24/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

hah, and yet another person who avoided the question. lol. looks like the conspiracy has spread even to the shroomery.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
    #7448151 - 09/24/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

And you know that the news networks are in on it. Downplaying, even turning this courageous rebellion (and I don't use the term lightly - what that guy did took a lot of courage. The gov. will probably be screwing with him now.) They (mass media news networks) may be evil, lying, truth twisting fucks, but you got to hand it to them.. they are good at what they do.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: WScott]
    #7448200 - 09/24/07 03:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

look, i can't beleive this thread is still going. The truth about Andrew Myer is that he is a complete tool with a craving to get attention.

When the final Harry Potter book came out he was out in Turlington with a huge sign reading, "HARRY DIES!"

In a press conference with Urban Meyer among the relavant questions asked to Urban, Andrew asks if he wears boxers or briefs.

The kid is an attention whore and it's ridiculous how ppl think "OH police brutality!" I mean come the fuck on.

Andrew Meyer shoved his way to the front of the line to ask his question(s). So right then and there, he had an eye on him. Then he couldn't ask in a reasonable manner to, I suppose to "maintain the integrity" of the forum. He got what had coming and did a horrible acting job that would probably be good enough to make a power rangers show.


--------------------
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7448239 - 09/24/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I think if anyone got what they had coming it was the 'political forum' itself.

in fact, I think there should be an organization that sends people in to 'Q&A sessions' like this one just so they can storm the mike and ask an 'unapproved' question.

With what passes for 'voter/politician dialogue' these days, I would be sad if people DIDN'T sneak in and ask uncensored questions.

the organizers of the event forced that kid's hand by not providing a legitimate way to ask the question. in other words, if the shit wasn't completely censored and bogus, no one would be storming the mike.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7448249 - 09/24/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> Then he couldn't ask in a reasonable manner

Excuse me, but according to somebody posting earlier in this thread, his manner of speech is known as "orating". Apparently, this is how people speak at political functions.

> Andrew Meyer shoved his way to the front of the line to ask his question(s).

Yes, but he is a determined speaker, and determined speakers get to be rude before orating at political functions.

> He got what had coming

He didn't even get his questions answered.

> The kid is an attention whore and it's ridiculous how ppl think "OH police brutality!" I mean come the fuck on.

Pretty much sums it up for me. -Groundhog Day (rather apropos)


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wps]
    #7448260 - 09/24/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

in fact, I think there should be an organization that sends people in to 'Q&A sessions' like this one just so they can storm the mike and ask an 'unapproved' question.




Are you even reading people's replies to your posts? What part of "it wasn't the question, but his behavior" that was unacceptable do you not understand?



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Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it. -A Fish Called Wanda


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7448307 - 09/24/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

have you ever attended one of these speeches, and tried to ask a question using the proper procedures?

Most of these events are so arranged that the questioners are decided way in advance, and the questions have to be pre-approved.

Thus, the illusion of the 'spontaneous dialogue' is created, when in fact the whole thing is scripted, and certain subject matter are forbidden to be broached.

If political debates and forums and town hall meetings weren't censored in this way, people wouldn't have to rush the mike in order to ask the non-canned questions that people REALLY want to know the answers to.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wps]
    #7448447 - 09/24/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cracka_X said:
look, i can't beleive this thread is still going. The truth about Andrew Myer is that he is a complete tool with a craving to get attention.

When the final Harry Potter book came out he was out in Turlington with a huge sign reading, "HARRY DIES!"

In a press conference with Urban Meyer among the relavant questions asked to Urban, Andrew asks if he wears boxers or briefs.





you know, this really reminds me of that stunt that those guys promoting Adult Swim pulled. It went off fine in all other cities, but in their home city of Boston, they were arrested for making terrorist devices. Then at the press conference, they just talked about Hair styles the whole time.

It really pissed everyone off, but you know what, they were never assaulted and tased, and they were expressing their freedom of speech. Of course they were screwing with the system - making a statement. They knew their comments would be twisted, and they probably were not prepared for making such comments anyways.

This parallels Andrew Meyer, in that he too could act as a comedian, but he didn't. His questions alone were serious, although rhetoric. It was a standard Q&A, the same shit you could pull off John Kerry's website. The questions he asked were not so friendly, but very serious. There was not even a slight hint of comedy in his questions, nor should there have been.

You guys keep pulling all this crap out of here, AFTER THE FACT. It's not like the campus cops were there googling his shit before they moved in and assaulted him. The assault (putting their hands on him) occurred before he even started moving around. This initial assault was exactly what caused him to pull away.

I'm not going to sit here and try to argue that getting tased by resisting and fighting cops is unjust. It most certainly is. my gripe is the initial assault, and the reasoning behind it.


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Edited by kotik (09/24/07 05:36 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: wps]
    #7448546 - 09/24/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Most of these events are so arranged that the questioners are decided way in advance

have you ever attended one of these speeches, and tried to ask a question using the proper procedures?


Does the truth matter to you at all? Have you even read this thread?

The procedure was you waited in line until you got to the mic. There was no evil question selection overlord standing there with a taser. Jesus!

The guy was like fourth in line at an open microphone. The question period ended. Everyone in line AHEAD OF HIM sat down disappointed because time ran out before they got to the mic. They sat down like normal people do when time runs out. If Mayer had gotten to the event 30 minutes earlier, he would have been far enough up in line to make it to the mic before time ran out.

There was no question selection conspiracy. IT WAS AN OPEN MIC! AN OPEN MIC! He just didn't get there in time. What part of that concept are you having trouble with?

Mayer threw a hissy fit because he didn't get to the mic in time. The cops tried to walk him out, he broke free and rushed the mic. Repeatedly! Even though he'd been asked to stop. Repeatedly!

He finally got tasered after struggling with the police.

How many more non-facts are you going to make up to support your incorrect pre-conclusions?


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
    #7448759 - 09/24/07 06:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Diploid, you can't actually think had he been there and been first in line for the question period, that Kerry would have answered the questions posed? More people than this guy have asked Kerry (and Bush) the same questions. They never answer them.

The attention should NOT be placed on the disruption and the tasering but on the questions that were asked.


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Edited by WScott (09/24/07 06:58 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: WScott]
    #7449190 - 09/24/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> The attention should NOT be placed on the disruption and the tasering but on the questions that were asked.

I don't disagree with your statement, but unfortunately, the "determined orator known as Meyers" odd behavior and resulting ejection ended up giving Kerry an easy out. Not only did Meyers behavior let Kerry off the hook, but it also soiled the reputation of anybody else that isn't a manic loone that wants to ask the same questions.

> have you ever attended one of these speeches, and tried to ask a question using the proper procedures?

Yes, I have attended speeches given by politicians in a university setting, and no, from what I can tell, the questions (asked by the students) were not scripted. Colon Powell was by far the best, especially watching him verbally castrate a "skilled orator" like Meyers. (There was a Meyer's like idiot at the Powell speech, and unlike Kerry, Powell handled it beautifully... no taser was needed.)


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
    #7449362 - 09/24/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

To start with, this thread is getting rediculously old.
On the other hand, who gives a flying fuck if Kerry is
or isn't in some secret fraternity. Does it really matter?

My grandfather is a free mason, my father is a devout jew,
and my mother is a jew gone catholic. They're fucking religions,
everyone has one, let it be. And this debate is intensely retarded.

Religion, Frat, Secret Society, doesn't really matter.
Was the debate staged, probably not.

I don't see Meyers bitching anymore, was he silenced?
Probably not.
Would it really matter if he was?
Probably not.

This incident is going to fade to the winds of time,
a dumb ass kid got tased, as 100 other people probably did
the same exact day. The police mishandled the situation, thier people,
they make mistakes. The kid was out of line, he's a person,
he made a fuckup.

So, how about some god damned decency and let this thread
die before it lowers all of our intelligence.


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Pledge2Educate]
    #7449558 - 09/24/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

What is your opinion on the link between Kerry and Bush in the same fraternity? If in fact Bush and Kerry are Freemasons together, we have to then figure out to what purpose they are fooling the American people (and the world) by pretending to have different agendas.


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Edited by WScott (09/24/07 10:01 PM)

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: WScott]
    #7449576 - 09/24/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

What leads you to believe they have the same agenda?
Have you ever been to a Church, a Mosque, a Synagouge?
No two people have the same agenda, no two people think alike.
It doesn't matter if you're in the same Frat or Religion,
people differ, plain and simple.

My brother was in the same Frat as me in college,
he's my complete opposite politically, religiously,
ideologically, etc, etc.


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GGreatOne234 said:
I've never come across a cow pasture in
Florida that did not have No Trespassing signs.
Those signs mean stay the f away.

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