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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Bridgeburner]
#7431133 - 09/20/07 05:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> it was a dialogue between the candidate and the questioneer
There was no dialogue! The kid was in a manic ramble for 90 seconds, non-stop. A dialogue requires at least two people talking back and forth. Kerry couldn't get a word in, though he tried several times.
> the cops were on him like a pack of rabid dogs
Not until he started to resist arrest. There were only two officers, one on either side of him, initially. When he started to resist, then they swarmed him. Who's fault is this? The kids, not the police.
> the guy HAD A RIGHT to ask those questions
What questions? It took him over forty seconds to ask ONE question, but he didn't give Kerry a chance to answer. He rambled on for another forty seconds or so before the university official asked him to leave. At that point, he no longer had the right to stay and he no longer had the right to ask "those questions" at this venue. He was a guest, not a host.
> but the cops fucked him up
He did it to himself when he acted like a loon trying to get back to the microphone rather than leaving in a peaceful manner.
Again, I have no problem with the questions that he was asking, it was his behavior that was unacceptable. If he wanted to be taken seriously, then he should not have acted like a two year old child throwing a temper tantrum.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Pledge2Educate
Der Pilzkönig



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 369
Loc: Central Florida
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
#7431176 - 09/20/07 05:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Damn, let this god damn topic die already. Or kiss my pups ass:
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Pledge2Educate]
#7431191 - 09/20/07 05:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
There was no dialogue! The kid was in a manic ramble for 90 seconds, non-stop. A dialogue requires at least two people talking back and forth. Kerry couldn't get a word in, though he tried several times.
an overzealous kid? wow, taser him NOW. so what? these things happen and it could have resolved by non-violent means.
Quote:
Not until he started to resist arrest. There were only two officers, one on either side of him, initially. When he started to resist, then they swarmed him. Who's fault is this? The kids, not the police.
resisting arrest is a civic duty if you morally feel the arrest is unjustified. that means i would have resisted arrest also. it was absurd. he should have gone with them quietly? why did the cops even approach him? kerry should have handled him verbally. or the other students should have booed him to shut up. but almost all the students were like sheep.
maybe he was fired up but it was HIS way of asking them. not everyone speak like robots and act the same. even if he was a quack it didn't give authorities the right to ask him to fuck off. he wasn't showing aggression and violence much like the police.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Bridgeburner]
#7431227 - 09/20/07 06:16 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> these things happen and it could have resolved by non-violent means
Exactly. Had the kid simply left when asked to leave by the host of the venue, then nothing would have happened to him.
> why did the cops even approach him?
Because the university official in the suit standing directly behind the kid and to the side of the cops told the cops to remove the kid. You can see it clearly in one of the videos immediately before the cops start to move.
> maybe he was fired up but it was HIS way of asking them
Again... if he wanted to be taken seriously, then he needs to behave like a normal person.
> kerry should have handled him verbally
Kerry was trying. However, Kerry was just as much a guest of the event as was the kid. Perhaps the host should have handled the situation differently, I don't know.
> he wasn't showing aggression and violence much like the police.
Yes he was. Watch again. He continually tries to get the police to let go of him. He breaks away from the police and tries to run back to the microphone. He jumps up, trying to get over the people blocking his way. I don't think he intended violence, but he was certainly being aggressive... and when you behave in an aggressive manner around elected officials, the people in charge of protecting those officials have to assume the worst and remove the possible threat.
If the kid had simply gone up to the mic and asked his three questions without all the theatrics, or had the police acted without the direction of the university official, then I would be on your side and agree with you. However, that is not what happened. The kid brought this upon himself with his behavior.
> Damn, let this god damn topic die already.
When you are an admin of the site or a moderator of the forum, then you can tell me what to do. Until then, if you don't want to read about it, then don't click on the thread.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
#7432032 - 09/20/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: lol, well if the police say their new toys are better... than I guess I'll just take their word for it.
You make it seem like this is opinion. It's not. There are numbers behind it showing a clear reduction in injuries when tasers are used instead of brute force.
yes, and the source of those numbers? the very same people who benefit from them! Do you not see the obvious conflict of interest here? It's like I am using a cellphone at work, but then they give us iPhones to try out...
they ask "are the iphones making your job more efficient?"
now, regardless of the truth, I want to keep my iPhone. So guess what - my "numbers" will show how my efficiency has gone up.
Quote:
Damn, let this god damn topic die already. Or kiss my pups ass:
whatever man, you've been a member for what, all of a week?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by kotik (09/20/07 12:16 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
#7432209 - 09/20/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes, and the source of those numbers?
This is usually the last resort of someone who's debating to be right instead of to find the truth, whatever it may be.
The source of those statistics is various disparate newspapers, journals, and official reports. If you think they're all in bed together in a taser conspiracy, then say so and provide evidence to support that.
I don't think you can.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
#7432238 - 09/20/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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This article says that 200 people have been killed by tasers so far. It also paints a different picture on their use. Very Disturbing
http://onemansblog.com/2007/09/17/the-tasering-will-continue-until-you-all-submit/
More disturbing is another Tasering incident which happened today in Ohio , I think it was. Just saw the video on the news. You tube videos I'm sure will be out soon.
Apparently , a woman wouldn't get out of her car when asked too. So the cop started tasing her through the open window. She managed to open the door, fall out and crawl dazed and confused, he starts tasering her more. She manages to get up then stumbles, and she gets tazered even more. She ended up unconscious from the tasering and in the hospital.
There was also mention of a woman who was already in handcuffs getting tasered, today. They didn't show a video clip of it though.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7432254 - 09/20/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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or the crippled schizophrenic that was killed by 10 shots from a tazer while sitting in her wheelchair.
this 'non-lethal' alternative weapon has given cops an easier means of flexing their dicks.
it's absurd.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7432271 - 09/20/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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This article says that 200 people have been killed by tasers so far.
But a higher proportion of people are killed and injured by being manhandled. Tasers are safer.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7432279 - 09/20/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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jiggy writes:
Quote:
Apparently , a woman wouldn't get out of her car when asked too. So the cop started tasing her through the open window.
There was a video making the rounds a year or so ago about an identical situation. In that video, it was obvious the woman was a total bitch completely in the wrong. Come to think of it, I believe there was even a thread about it in this forum, but I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.
Jiggy, you asked earlier how cops subdued people before stunguns and tasers were invented. So now I'll ask you how you think cops dealt with people like this woman say ten years ago, before they had such tools. What method do you think a cop from ten years back would have used to get this woman out of her car?
Phred
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
#7432496 - 09/20/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was asking myself what a cop should do if someone won't get out of their car.
I would first want to know why she was pulled over, and what the cause was for wanting her to get out of the car.
News didn't say why she was.
At any rate, say he was all justified up until that point. A quick zap after a good amount of time trying to reason with her and numerous warnings, could get her out and it did.
Once she was out and laying on the ground, he continues zapping her until she is unconscious. It was totally unncessary.
That was the part that was disturbing to watch. I'll post it if I find it on youtube.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7432647 - 09/20/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/09/20/sinkovich.woman.tasered.wytv
Here is the full version. It happened Sept 2nd, and CNN requested the tape today for showing.
The bits I saw being repeated were of before she was in the back of the squad and handcuffed.
This is the full version video. She was out of line for kicking the window. I just saw that part now on this tape.
He also seemed to be unnecessarily tazing her, before and well after that though.
Heres' the thing Phred and Dip,
What if I get pulled over on a dark road at night. The cop says, "suck my dick or you're going to get tazed. "
Now what?
At least if I said, " Fuck you, and let him beat on me", I'd have proof with my bruises. If I got tazed into unconsciousness, what proof of police abuse do I have?
I don't think its the tazer vs the billy club that bothers me here. It's seeing how tazers can be used by Police who abuse their power and authority.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7432704 - 09/20/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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That was fucked up.
But that was abuse. Like any tool, tasers can be misused. That's not what happened at the Kerry speach.
What if I get pulled over on a dark road at night. The cop says, "suck my dick or you're going to get tazed. "
Again, the cop could do that to you with a billyclub. The taser isn't evil here. It's a tool and a good one, and like any tool it can be misused.
And the guy who got tased at the Kerry speach was tased entirely appropriately.
If I got tazed into unconsciousness, what proof of police abuse do I have?
There would be two small puncture holes on your skin as evidence. If the guy really wanted to rape you and leave no evidence, he wouldn't use a taser.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
#7433655 - 09/20/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
> have you been tased by a police-grade taser before?
Yep. The 50,000 volt stun guns are nothing. Hardly hurt. More shock value than anything else.
just found this video i thought was interesting.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by kotik (09/20/07 06:15 PM)
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
#7433897 - 09/20/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: The difference between taser / physical force is again hypothetical!
Nope.
From a document on taser statistics. PM if you want a copy for yourself:
--
The Orange County (Florida) sheriff's department recorded an injury rate drop of ~80% when they stopped manhandling suspects and began using tasers. Source: Orlando Sentinel July 29, 2002
The Phoenix PD recorded a 67% drop. Source: Report issued by the PPD December, 2003
The Glenn Country (California) sheriff's office reported a 100% drop in injuries in 2006 after they started using tasers. There were ZERO injuries the entire year. Source: Sgt. Todd James Sacramento PD, February 17, 2007.
Putnam County (Florida) sheriff reports an 86% drop in injuries since they started using tasers. Source: Palatka Daily News, August 11, 2006
South Bend (Indiana) PD saw a drop of 66% in injuries since they started using tasers. Before, we used to have officers who got broken hands or broken arms - you name it - in physical altercations. Now, instead of having officers off for six months with various broken bones, the worst thing we see happening is officers with bad knees from chasing peopple". Source: Journal Gazette, March 6, 2006
And it goes on...
Austin Police officer injuries down 50%, suspect injuries down 82%. Source: Austin Chronicle Home, July 29, 2005
Charlotte-Mecklenburg PD: Officer injuries down 59%, suspect injuries down 79%.
Cape Coral (Florida) PD, officer injuries down 93%, suspect injuries down 68%.
Topeca, officers injuries down 46%, suspect injuries down 41%.
Sarasota (FLorida) PD. injuries down 65.
Hialeah (Florida) PD: Injuries down 95%
Omaha PD. Injuries down 47%
Garner (North Carolina) PD, down 38%
El Paso TX, down 59%
Cincinnati PD: officer injuries down 56%, suspect injuries down 35%
Columbus PD, officer down 23%, suspect down 24%.
Totonto: 100% drop in injuries. That's right, they went from putting many suspects and officers in hospitals with broken bones one year to ZERO injuries the next.
Oakland County: 100% drop in injuries.
Long Beach: 25% drop in injuries to officers, 33% drop for suspects.
And I'm only a quarter of the way through the document.
--
You guys are having an irrational knee-jerk reaction to the idea of an electric shock: The taser is electric, it shocks people, so it must automatically be a bad thing. Well, it's not. And it's way better than a billyclub.
You can bury your head in the sand all you like. The truth of the statistics won't go away: tasers prevent harm compared to brutish physical force.
what about incindental deaths, aint seen one statistiics report covering that issue.
a thousand brokekne bones is worht the life of one person who may be redeemed!
-------------------- Asshole
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7433923 - 09/20/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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We've already covered this. Read the thread.
Billyclubs and brutish force cause deaths too.
Any time people are taken down by force, be it by tackling them or tasing them, there are going to be some injuries and some deaths. This can't be helped.
What CAN be helped is how often it happens. And the statistics show that it happens less often with tasers than with brute force.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



Registered: 11/23/04
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
#7433958 - 09/20/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: We've already covered this. Read the thread.
Billyclubs and brutish force cause deaths too.
Any time people are taken down by force, be it by tackling them or tasing them, there are going to be some injuries and some deaths. This can't be helped.
What CAN be helped is how often it happens. And the statistics show that it happens less often with tasers than with brute force.
sorry, I don' think the information you provided says that at all. show me where specifically it sites that.
electrocution, isn't that one a the three ways they execute people anymore?
so, again, don't imply my reading skills are poor, show me where it says the difference in death rates!
-------------------- Asshole
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7433987 - 09/20/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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sorry, I don' think the information you provided says that at all.
Are you saying that the statistics indicating a drop in injury rates for suspects when police departments start using tasers are false?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
#7434010 - 09/20/07 08:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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no, just manipulative. 
imagine that, a p.r man is involved.
-------------------- Asshole
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7434024 - 09/20/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Orange County (Florida) sheriff's department recorded an injury rate drop of ~80% when they stopped manhandling suspects and began using tasers. Source: Orlando Sentinel July 29, 2002
That statistic was provided by a journalist, not an evil police PR department.
What part of that is manipulated?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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