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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
#7425864 - 09/18/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Phred I gotta tell you, its not as simple as it seems.
I was one morning eating a McGrddiles smammich in the parking of of McD's. I was not wearing any shoes or a shirt.
The police seen me and got curious. They wanted to know where I live and what I like to do for fun and all that bullshit. I told them to fuck off, NC state law prohibits the random harassment of its citizens. They got mean. I got assertive. I was one block form y house. So finally after detaining me for an hour they have four cars there and five officers. Bet you can't guess what happened.
I was eventually mased cause i wouldn't cooperate with an "investigation". well, I ain't never been no bitch. I finally went to jail, for impeding upon an investigation and and disorderedly conduct. they couldn't even arrest me for resisting arrest, cause I hadn't done anything that warranted arrest. So please cut the bullshit.
'the posse aren't some benevolent force.
Also there were some shroomery members present. it was bullshit. excuse the spelling.
seriously, cut the bullshit.
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ChesterCopperpot
Stranger


Registered: 01/04/07
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7425889 - 09/18/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks Nakors. I had a gun pulled on me by a cop when I was 15 for being in a grave yard at night. Cops are pumped up and ready to rock, often they do not think....... they use the rule of procedure over the rule of common sense.
-------------------- This goes out to The Bearded Men of Space Station 11.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
#7425916 - 09/18/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChesterCopperpot said: Thanks Nakors. I had a gun pulled on me by a cop when I was 15 for being in a grave yard at night. Cops are pumped up and ready to rock, often they do not think....... they use the rule of procedure over the rule of common sense.
they operate on the rule of adrenline! pure an simple, and hey got idiot judges and most sadly elected D.A's prosecute theri fucked up cases.
-------------------- Asshole
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pabloescabar
Stranger thanyou



Registered: 05/02/07
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Diploid]
#7425946 - 09/18/07 09:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: This kinda reminds me of the UCLA student last year who was tazed in the library for refusing to show ID.
The UCLA student last year was asked to leave the library (private property) and refused. Only after he refused and became combative was force used.
Again, had the police forced him to leave without using the taser, he might have been injured. By using the taser, they prevent any injuries and still force the guy to leave.
What would you have the police do when someone refuses to leave private property after being asked? Use harsh language?
Tazers were made for using as an alternative to using a gun not for a nonthreatening college kid. Cops use tazers now because they're too damn lazy to use there muscle, sad that you try to justify someone getting tazed because they wouldn't stand up
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7426004 - 09/18/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So the moment things got "out of hand" (a young adult carrying on about far-left politics and not stopping) the cops went into full-on defensive mode. The problem is that the drastic measures that the police took were completely out of context giving the circumstances. I believe that this is another example of police brutality that can be attributed to a lack of training and understanding.
No, it was another example of someone acting stupid getting the stupid knocked out of him.
The longer this discussion goes on, the more I have to wonder if half of y'all have even bothered to watch the videos. There was no "brutality". The security personnel were escorting the guy out the door. If he had just let them steer him out the door, he would never have been tasered. Just how hard is it to understand that simple fact?
What the hell did he think was going to happen? That if he just kept screeching at the top of his lungs and diving for the front of the auditorium every time they gave him half an inch of wriggle room he would somehow impress them with his steely determination to the cause? That they would just step back in admiration murmuring, "Damn, son. Maybe you DO have something worth saying after all," and then they'd fold their arms and watch with just a hint of a tear in their stern visages as he continued laying it all out for "The Man" at the podium?
Take a reality pill.
The guy was acting deranged -- more deranged by the second. I'm not making this up -- watch the fucking videos, fa cryin' out loud! He was like a little kid throwing a tantrum because he didn't get his way. But this wasn't some six year old weighing maybe forty pounds lying on his belly in the aisle of a grocery store and drumming his feet on the floor, it was a grown man charged up enough to shrug off two security guards and head back towards the microphone. They had a responsibility to get him out of there. That's their job. They had an obligation to remove the mutt, whether the speaker was just some run of the mill speaker or a US senator.
There's really no point beating this dead horse. Y'all will believe what y'all will believe. I personally find it completely astonishing that anyone who watched those videos could still be trying to defend this turniphead's behavior, but this isn't the first time I've been astonished by what I've read in this forum. I'm sure it won't be the last.
Phred
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



Registered: 11/23/04
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
#7426094 - 09/18/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Phred, one day someone is gonna swing a hammer that is longer, harder and swung with more speed than yours. You will be "knocked the fuck out". even the stars burn out eventually.
-------------------- Asshole
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist



Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7426440 - 09/18/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I hope the kid files a lawsuit..
--------------------
Fair is Fair
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
#7426913 - 09/19/07 04:29 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
again, this is obvious to a third party observer that's able to analyze these things in depth over the course of a few minutes, review their opinion, etc.
You are just determined to lay this on everyone except the fool who brought it on himself, aren't you?
yes, that's exactly what I am doing! Assigning the responsibility of that kids actions to... well, him! Cop reaction, unjustified. Other than that, the mental processes going on in Kerry, the kid's the cops' heads are purely speculative, although I am more than well aware that's not the type of thing to stop you, Phred. 
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How many minutes of "analyzing in depth" does it take anyone with an IQ higher than pocket lint to understand that when you're pinned to the ground by a bunch of big dudes, and one of them holding a taser shows it to you and says, "If you don't let us cuff you, you're gonna get zapped," then you had better let them cuff you? There's not a whole lot of nuance to try to puzzle out, here.
clear thinking while being assaulted by 6+ in uniform, and in the middle of a public forum, and IQ are two different things altogether. If you can't understand that, then you aren't qualified to comment on either.
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you don't need a PhD in Communications Theory to understand a simple declarative sentence like, "Sir, stop fighting or I'm gonna zap you."
now I can start to agree with you... however the way you just typed that out, including sir at the beginning is implying a statement that's asked clearly, and calmly. Let's take an example, since you seem to be locked on this. If you have every been to the military, and through basic training, you will see how some people react to simple things like "ABOUT FACE!" when it's screamed in their face for the first few times, as opposed to someone walking up to you, and calmly asking you to turn around. Some people (and I would imagine the type of person who yelps "help! help!") just have a complete brain shutdown, because of the shock of the moment. Again, there is no correlation between IQ and shock. You can draw the lines out all you want, but your mentioning "Down Syndrome" and etc. pretty much sums up how valid your argument is.
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Phred said: it was another example of someone acting stupid getting the stupid knocked out of him.
ah, thanks for clearing that up. Please see my comment above.
The longer this discussion goes on, the more I have to wonder if half
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this isn't the first time I've been astonished by what I've read in this forum. I'm sure it won't be the last.
took the words right out of my mouth.
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Fuck me
see comment above.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Brainiac]
#7426927 - 09/19/07 04:54 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> I hope the kid files a lawsuit..
Against who for what? The kid was asked to leave. He didn't. The police escorted him out and he tried to run back in (several times). The police tried to arrest him and he resisted. The police warned him that he would be tazed if he didn't stop resisting. He continued to resist. The police tased him. There was no beating, there was no police brutality, the was absolutely nothing done incorrectly by the police. The police didn't act on their own; they were directed to remove the guy by a university official. So, I ask again, who should the kid sue and for what?
> I personally find it completely astonishing that anyone who watched those videos could still be trying to defend this turniphead's behavior
The first video that I watched was well edited and made it appear that the police were simply beating the guy down after he asked Kerry about being in Skull and Bones with Bush. Without seeing the manic ramble that led up to that question, and without seeing the actions of the guy before he finally does get tazed, one would think this is another case of police brutality. Once I watched the entire video (as much as I could find) from various angles, read eyewitness accounts, and made a time line of the events as they occurred, it became very clear that without creative editing the guy is in the wrong and the police (for once) are doing it by the book.
I hate to admit it, but I spent around ten hours yesterday analyzing the events that took place. I watched at least five different videos shot from various angles. I stepped frame by frame through his struggle with police around the time he is being tazed. I created a transcript of everything that was said leading up to the tazing, created from multiple video sources. I created a time line of events to see how long the police waited before finally resorting to painful force. At the level of detail that I was looking, there is no question at all, the kid was in the wrong.
People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of what really happened. The people that want to believe that this was police brutality only need to watch the edited video to become convinced that they are indeed correct. Though what really has me shocked is the girl that comes up the isle (from the direction of the stage) as the guy is getting tazed. The lady cop tells the girl to back off, as the girl starts to get a bit hysterical screaming "what did he do, what did he do" (or something close to that, my notes are at home). Some people really do live in their own little reality.
If anybody can find the video of the kid when he ran up the first time after the announcement that there would be no more questions, please post it. This is the one bit of the puzzle that I have been unable to find on video.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Seuss]
#7426959 - 09/19/07 05:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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mind posting these transcripts, timelines, bar graphs, pie charts, frame by frames and etc?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
#7427017 - 09/19/07 06:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> mind posting these transcripts, timelines
Already have... in this very thread... I posted a transcript (that I wrote myself) with both descriptions of the events and times added in. I also posted a frame of the kid less than a second before he got tazed showing that his arm was free and not cuffed (opposite of one eyewitness account). I don't have bar graphs or pie charts, nor did I make any claim to have created such.
transcript
frame of kid immediately before getting zapped
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
#7427173 - 09/19/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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kotik writes:
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clear thinking while being assaulted by 6+ in uniform, and in the middle of a public forum, and IQ are two different things altogether. If you can't understand that, then you aren't qualified to comment on either.
and
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Some people (and I would imagine the type of person who yelps "help! help!") just have a complete brain shutdown, because of the shock of the moment. Again, there is no correlation between IQ and shock. You can draw the lines out all you want, but your mentioning "Down Syndrome" and etc. pretty much sums up how valid your argument is.
Thank you for proving my point.
If this guy has worked himself up to the point where he is so mentally disoriented (or, to use your words, is experiencing a "brain shutdown") that he can no longer understand the meaning of simple statements such as "Stop fighting or you'll get tasered," then clearly he is past the point where talking with him is a realistic option. All that is left for the security personnel to do is subdue him to the point where he can be restrained by cuffs -- for his own safety as well as that of everybody else near him -- and remove him from the venue.
As Seuss points out, one of the videos very clearly shows that at the point where he finally gets zapped, he has cuffs on just one wrist, and has managed (once again) to start flailing his arms around. That is an extremely dangerous situation even if the partially cuffed guy is acting rationally. And -- by your own characterization -- this guy isn't anywhere close to acting or thinking rationally.
I didn't spend ten hours (like Seuss did) reviewing videos and reading articles and blog posts about this incident, but I did spend maybe three hours so far on it. I have watched every video posted in this thread, repeatedly. We are fortunate that the event was so widely covered from so many angles because it shows quite clearly just how duplicitous some of the edited videos really are. They were quite clearly edited with the agenda of making the security personnel look as bad as possible. It's not until you watch the more complete ones (especially if you see four or five from different angles) that it becomes apparent this guy was acting like a dangerously unstable loon pretty much from the get-go.
Look, kotik, assume for the next few minutes that you're the senior security guard there. How would YOU have handled the guy once he'd broken free of the guards near the door of the auditorium and was trying to head back towards the microphone?
Would you have had your crew stop trying to grab him and just let him ping-pong around while you formed a line between him and the stage or would you have done the obvious thing and tackled him? If you say anything other than "take him down," may I be the first to say I'm grateful you weren't in charge of security there.
Once he was down, would you have just had your biggest guy sit on his chest for ten minutes or so while he gradually wore himself out, hollering and shrieking and flailing his arms around the whole time, or would you have directed your crew to cuff him? If you say anything other than "Cuff him," may I be the first to say I'm grateful you weren't in charge of security there.
When it became obvious that the guy was doing everything he could to prevent being cuffed, what's your next move? Whack him upside the head? Knee him in the groin? Have three of your crew sit on him till he exhausts himself fifteen minutes later, wailing at the top of his lungs the whole time? Or would you zap him, enabling you to quickly cuff the other arm, and hustle his ass out the door?
Come on, kotik -- I'm seriously interested in hearing your strategy for handling the guy. A guy who in your own words is going through a "complete brain shutdown" in a room full of innocent bystanders and a US senator.
*pulls up chair, starts munching popcorn*
Phred
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
#7427193 - 09/19/07 08:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: If this guy has worked himself up to the point where he is so mentally disoriented (or, to use your words, is experiencing a "brain shutdown") that he can no longer understand the meaning of simple statements such as "Stop fighting or you'll get tasered," then clearly he is past the point where talking with him is a realistic option.
again, you are mistaken. This kid did not work himself up into a state of shock. Shock is a common response to an unprovoked assault, especially to someone who is not used to being physically aggressive.
Quote:
I'm seriously interested in hearing your strategy for handling the guy. A guy who in your own words is going through a "complete brain shutdown" in a room full of innocent bystanders and a US senator.
LOL at the careful use of words. You make it seem like he was on edge, and now everyone was at risk of injury. The only people who assaulted anyone, and were a threat to safety were the security guards.
How would I have handled it? well that's easy. I wanted to hear what Kerry had to say about Skull and Bones as well. I would have pulled up a chair and waited for a response. Judging by the national outrage, and the guards being put on leave, it's obvious that their actions were NOT acceptable.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by kotik (09/19/07 08:01 AM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
#7427267 - 09/19/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
again, you are mistaken. This kid did not work himself up into a state of shock. Shock is a common response to an unprovoked assault, especially to someone who is not used to being physically aggressive.
Jesus wept!
Do you not even watch your own videos? The guy basically goes apeshit from the moment the first two security personnel touch him. He's leaping up in the air, bouncing all over the place, waving his arms all around (still clutching his precious book) from the get-go. He wasn't "assaulted" by any stretch of the imagination.
Once again, you make my point for me. If all that's necessary to throw this guy into a "brain shutdown" is to grab him by the arm, it's even MORE imperative to get him out of there!
Quote:
You make it seem like he was on edge, and now everyone was at risk of injury.
Good grief. We've been discussing this for days and you haven't even bothered to watch one of the videos yet. This guy wasn't just "on edge", he was full-on hysterical, as anyone who has taken the time to watch the videos will have to admit. Had he flipped out enough to take someone hostage or something? Perhaps not. But why take the chance?
Once again, you miss the obvious. Watch the big black guy hustle-bumping Meyers up the aisle as quickly as he can. Once they clear the aisle, he (big black guy) doesn't whip out his taser or his nightstick or mace or even handcuffs, he keeps the momentum going and steers Meyers towards the auditorium doors. It's not until Brain Shutdown Boy breaks away and tries to head back towards the stage that things get physical -- they take him down and try to cuff him.
All this genius had to do was keep heading toward the door and that would have been the end of it. But no -- he demonstrates unmistakeably once again that the only way he intends to leave the auditorium is under complete physical restraint. So be it.
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How would I have handled it? well that's easy. I wanted to hear what Kerry had to say about Skull and Bones as well. I would have pulled up a chair and waited for a response.
Then I repeat I am ever so glad there's no danger of you ever being head of a security detail at any public event I'm likely to attend.
Phred
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implee
Cyber Hippie


Registered: 07/27/06
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: Phred]
#7427467 - 09/19/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is the BEST video of the tase thing, and you havent seen it yet
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: implee]
#7427506 - 09/19/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: lonestar2004]
#7428386 - 09/19/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm actually getting kind of sick of this post.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: BrAiN]
#7428407 - 09/19/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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so why click on it? I get sick whenever I eat raw onion. So I don't.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
#7428597 - 09/19/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm a masocist
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Student Tasered For Asking Sen. Kerry About Skull & Bones - Video (np) [Re: kotik]
#7428664 - 09/19/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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How would I have handled it? well that's easy. I wanted to hear what Kerry had to say about Skull and Bones as well. I would have pulled up a chair and waited for a response.
Stop sidestepping Phred's question. If you sat down to listen, you would have lost your job. The question period was over and your boss asked you to remove a guy who refused to accept that the question period was over.
So, it's your job to keep order, your boss asked you to remove the guy, and the guy kept rushing the microphone.
You're up: How would you have handled things (and kept your job)?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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