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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7423042 - 09/18/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:

This is the result of the fact that people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and because they're unable to reason. They're used to submitting and when they have freedom they don't know how to behave or what to make of it.
It's like stating that drugs should be illegal just because there are people who act irresponsible when under the influence.

An ignorant understanding of the term anarchy doesn't mean that true anarchy can't exist.





Hey MT, thanks for taking that one on! And I thought I was gonna be stuck with it... again. The problem with explicitly and proudly proclaiming one's controversial ideas is having to explain them in the most basic terms to every jerk who can't use wikipedia and prefers, instead, to say things like "anarchy is what's happening in Iraq right now, you like that?" Jesus Christ. It's nice to have friends! :grin:


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7423189 - 09/18/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:

Even in countries such as Sweden and Norway, a free-market economy still exists to some extent.




What the fuck are you talking about? Anarchy has been running smoothly here since the Kafkanians killed Einar Gerhardsen shortly after WWII. Don't you remember, they never even offered him the Trial? You could be stuck in the wrong timeline. There is a password to bypass and receive the "right" output, plot "SatanicMajestiesRequest666" into all the co-ordination values, x y & z. Then spin through Pi.

You will now have increased entropy dramatically. If everything goes according to lack of plan, a higher "order" will ensue.

Forgot to tell you... A tail will have appeared growing five centimeters above your rectum. They told me they're working on that one. Wear it with pride.

On a serious note; some great defense for theft here. I think i'll start stealing again.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: dorkus]
    #7423222 - 09/18/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I have heard that many of the American Indians were great thiefs. They stole from anyone not in their tribe without stigma.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
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Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Icelander]
    #7423241 - 09/18/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

..yes, and offering a prayer to the Great Spirit, would absolve them of the crime, i guess.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: shakercee]
    #7423247 - 09/18/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What crime?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7423280 - 09/18/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:

This is the result of the fact that people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and because they're unable to reason. They're used to submitting and when they have freedom they don't know how to behave or what to make of it.
It's like stating that drugs should be illegal just because there are people who act irresponsible when under the influence.

An ignorant understanding of the term anarchy doesn't mean that true anarchy can't exist.





Hey MT, thanks for taking that one on! And I thought I was gonna be stuck with it... again. The problem with explicitly and proudly proclaiming one's controversial ideas is having to explain them in the most basic terms to every jerk who can't use wikipedia and prefers, instead, to say things like "anarchy is what's happening in Iraq right now, you like that?" Jesus Christ. It's nice to have friends! :grin:






OK, us jerks have a few question, but don't feel stuck with answering because of my ignorance on the subject, but still wanting to discuss and learn.....    :rolleyes:


Does anarchy exist and "run" anywhere....?
If so, where.... 
If not, why not.....?



Quote:


Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχία anarchía, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following:
.
"Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to beliefs that people are inherently good and can organize themselves without government or bureaucracies; another type of political order."[1]
"A theoretical social state in which there is no governing person or body of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."[2]
"Absence or non-recognition of authority in any given sphere."[3]
or, simply, (from Greek: an-, "without" and Greek: -archy, "leadership")
Without leadership. Hence, the common use of anarchism as a system of organisation without leaders.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

I did look on Wikipedia....  "May refer to any of the following"....
"Lawlessness due to beliefs that people are inherently good".... 
This is the planet Earth.....    MT has givien the underlying reasons as to why it doesn't (and/or won't) work....   
So, with those reasons being instilled upon the people of the world, -
how would this new system work without whiping everyone's brain clean and starting over with fingers crossed....?

Is taking/stealing from another person "inherently good" within anarchy....?

People can reason.... 
The people that are NOT "inherently good" can reason that there is no consequences for the actions that they bestow upon another....
Whether they take responsibility or not, who is to stop those people from running amok when there is no leadership or laws or enforcers....?



Yes to anarchy - in a perfect world, with perfect people, it would be just perfect.........................:thumbup:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: shakercee]
    #7423329 - 09/18/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shakercee said:
..yes, and offering a prayer to the Great Spirit, would absolve them of the crime, i guess.




You missed the whole point. To them it was not a crime or something wrong.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Icelander]
    #7423350 - 09/18/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm..yeah..point taken.:thumbup:


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: shakercee]
    #7423367 - 09/18/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This is true of everything we believe. If you think it's wrong it's wrong. If you don't then it isn't. All rules about morality and right and wrong are cultural and artificial.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSlvrZeta
~Asi
Male


Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 200
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Icelander]
    #7423430 - 09/18/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

To the guy who said morality is not subjective, please explain.


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7423469 - 09/18/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

So describing anarchy as a natural disaster compared to a hurricane where public raping happens along with the destruction, is your way of discussing to learn?

Piffle, piffle, piffle.

Or you could go for option number two which we will refer to as Ignoramus Saueflokkius.

What is a perfect world with perfect people? Maybe you have to let go of some dearly held ideals as to what a society should achieve and how it should function to function "perfectly" to understand that anarchy actually could function? Does "perfect" mean without conflict and resistance? Does it mean that we cut human losses from 100 percent (today's count from my own estimates) down to ... what? Will we start surviving? I find it funny when people talk about how economy needs to be continually expanding - then complain about how we are killing the earth. It's time for a strike.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: dorkus]
    #7423491 - 09/18/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebugi_bi
bogey_shroom


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 52
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: dorkus]
    #7423509 - 09/18/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

okey, i agree with writer.. i am doing the same thing..
one man sad, "love is beyong good and evil, and i love what i do"..
and really i do, i can steal without regreting it...
i am used that people are stealing from me...
if you describe yourself as good person you must be aware that we all are theifs...
there almost no difference between sharing and stealing..
only imaginary difference...
still be sure not to get cought...


--------------------

end


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7423871 - 09/18/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Does anarchy exist and "run" anywhere....?
If so, where....




Yes it does run and yes it does work.
It's highly efficient as a personal philosophy of life, for those who are willing, like I stated before, to live a conscious and responsible life, to set their own priorities and accept what works for them and what doesn't. By making their best guess on reality, using reason and understanding. There are people that are really good at being autodidacts and which don't need others to tell them what to do in order to live a fulfilling and happy life.
I think that one of the best motto's for anarchy that I could think about is "think for yourself, question authority".
Why should those people, who are a living prove for the fact that one can live outside the system, without becoming a plague for for the structure of the world, should just submit to authority, just because others are incapable of living a responsible life.
Anarchy is about personal option, which is a basic human right.

Quote:

If not, why not.....?




It doesn't work as an infrastructure, because of many reasons.
One of the reasons for which anarchy could never work as a social conduct is because it would become a rule and it wouldn't be anarchy anymore.
Another reason, which I already stated, is because not everybody's willing to take control over their lives and accept responsibility.
One more reason why anarchy wouldn't work as a universal truth is just because nothing really works as a universal truth.
And this brings me back to personal option. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: dorkus]
    #7424051 - 09/18/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dorkus said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:

Even in countries such as Sweden and Norway, a free-market economy still exists to some extent.




What the fuck are you talking about? Anarchy has been running smoothly here since the Kafkanians killed Einar Gerhardsen shortly after WWII. Don't you remember, they never even offered him the Trial? You could be stuck in the wrong timeline. There is a password to bypass and receive the "right" output, plot "SatanicMajestiesRequest666" into all the co-ordination values, x y & z. Then spin through Pi.

You will now have increased entropy dramatically. If everything goes according to lack of plan, a higher "order" will ensue.

Forgot to tell you... A tail will have appeared growing five centimeters above your rectum. They told me they're working on that one. Wear it with pride.

On a serious note; some great defense for theft here. I think i'll start stealing again.










Want to know the difference between Discordians and Subgenii? Subgenii get laid.

You're facts are wrong, too. The Kafkanians only killed Joseph K and that was before WWII. As far as the rest of your Carrie Fisheresque ramble, harrumph.


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7424408 - 09/18/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You get laid? Wow, that is very impressive.

Facts? Hahaha. Do you even know what Einar Gerhardsen have done for Norway?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7424780 - 09/18/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yes it does run and yes it does work.
It's highly efficient as a personal philosophy of life, for those who are willing, like I stated before, to live a conscious and responsible life, to set their own priorities and accept what works for them and what doesn't. By making their best guess on reality, using reason and understanding. There are people that are really good at being autodidacts and which don't need others to tell them what to do in order to live a fulfilling and happy life.
I think that one of the best motto's for anarchy that I could think about is "think for yourself, question authority".
Why should those people, who are a living prove for the fact that one can live outside the system, without becoming a plague for the structure of the world, should just submit to authority, just because others are incapable of living a responsible life.
Anarchy is about personal option, which is a basic human right.





For the most part, that IS the way I live....  But, when I hear "Anarchy", I never think of just one person.... 
"It was total anarchy" is a saying that comes to mind - as a way to describe unruly chaos - or social breakdown.... 
If I have misinterpreted this, it is my mistake....

I still don't see how anarchy advocates the personal choice to steal from another - in the personal philosophy regard of "self responsibility"....
The person that is responsibly working hard to make a product or provide a service,
what is the point if in a system of anarchy, it is OK for someone to decide that you have "more than them" to justify stealing your work....?

How is that any different than a non-anarchist stealing just for the joy of stealing....?
Whether it is a "better reason" or not, your shit is still stolen by a thief....    :shrug:

I was being responsible for myself today, and I stole some stuff I needed....
It just doesn't sound right to me....    :ohwell:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7424939 - 09/18/07 06:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its called "being a nice person". And "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you". I may not be a believer in religion so much these days, but even I can see the sense and value in that advice.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7424945 - 09/18/07 06:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

How is that any different than a non-anarchist stealing just for the joy of stealing....?
Whether it is a "better reason" or not, your shit is still stolen by a thief.... :shrug:




What does better reason have to do with all that?
And why the need for justification?
If I would decide to steal, I would assume responsibility for my actions and would not feel guilty or uncomfortable about it. I would do it because I decided to do so, no matter the reason. If I would fail at one or more of these criteria, I would decide not to steal.

Quote:

I was being responsible for myself today, and I stole some stuff I needed....
It just doesn't sound right to me.... :ohwell:




And that is exactly what I was talking about.
If it doesn't sound right to me, I don't do it. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: adrug]
    #7424949 - 09/18/07 06:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Mee two....  :smile:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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