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InvisibleSlvrZeta
~Asi
Male


Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 200
Shoplifting can be morally right.
    #7420406 - 09/17/07 04:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My spirits are lifted when I shoplift from corporate companies/chain grocery stores. I do not steal from little shops, mom & pop stores, etc. I like WalMart, Target, and the chain supermarkets. Here is my justification:

1) morality is subjective

2) the CEO of WalMart doesn't need another gold doorknob or Mercedes Benz.

3) Life is expensive as it is. How is it fair that the proletariat earn a shitty wage like $7.50/hr -- year after year -- when inflation is a constant battle? I don't know about you but my salary is still the same after 6 months --- and I can assure you gas prices, food prices, etc have ALL gone up in the past 6 months --- but I haven't had a raise to combat these threats.

4) people who would "never shoplift" are usually people who download music, DVDs, and video games --- all objects which cost money at a retail store.

5) Capitalism by its nature is all about stealing. For every dollar you have in your pocket, that is one less dollar somebody else has in theirs (I see some debates with this one --- zero-sum economy and all that).

6) The motto of capitalism: "YOU WORK I WIN!"

7) Is it fair that a gallon of milk should cost $4.99 (that is what it is in this state everywhere)?

8) Shoplifting a few items can ease the pain of actually having to use money, ie, like filling up your gas tank (although stealing gasoline can be a pastime for some).


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InvisibleSlvrZeta
~Asi
Male


Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 200
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420442 - 09/17/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

9) I can understand someone asking: "Why did you steal that 27'' plasma TV", a TV more or less isn't a human requirement. Food is.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420468 - 09/17/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well, morals are merely culturally defined norms. They don't really mean anything and they are quite arbitrary. If you violate certain of these norms you will not have to steal to eat as you will be provided with free room and board by the federal government. It is a sort of mandatory assistance they offer to those who feel the need to steal in order to provide for themselves. If I was going to steal I would just grab the plasma tv. The money I saved could be used to buy food "morally".


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420475 - 09/17/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SlvrZeta said:
My spirits are lifted when I shoplift from corporate companies/chain grocery stores. I do not steal from little shops, mom & pop stores, etc. I like WalMart, Target, and the chain supermarkets. Here is my justification:

1) morality is subjective

2) the CEO of WalMart doesn't need another gold doorknob or Mercedes Benz.

3) Life is expensive as it is. How is it fair that the proletariat earn a shitty wage like $7.50/hr -- year after year -- when inflation is a constant battle? I don't know about you but my salary is still the same after 6 months --- and I can assure you gas prices, food prices, etc have ALL gone up in the past 6 months --- but I haven't had a raise to combat these threats.

4) people who would "never shoplift" are usually people who download music, DVDs, and video games --- all objects which cost money at a retail store.

5) Capitalism by its nature is all about stealing. For every dollar you have in your pocket, that is one less dollar somebody else has in theirs (I see some debates with this one --- zero-sum economy and all that).

6) The motto of capitalism: "YOU WORK I WIN!"

7) Is it fair that a gallon of milk should cost $4.99 (that is what it is in this state everywhere)?

8) Shoplifting a few items can ease the pain of actually having to use money, ie, like filling up your gas tank (although stealing gasoline can be a pastime for some).




You can rationalize all you want, but you're still just a thief.


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InvisibleSlvrZeta
~Asi
Male


Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 200
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7420483 - 09/17/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The federal government does an awful job at providing for the less fortunate. For such a wealthy nation, we have one of the highest homeless rates over many other industrialized nations.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420485 - 09/17/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

IMO, if you truly felt that it was OK, you would not feel the need to justify your behavior.  :shrug:

I don't believe in morality, and prefer to make my decisions based upon what the world would be like if everyone behaved the way I do.  If it is still a world I would choose to live in, then my behavior is acceptable to me.


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InvisibleSlvrZeta
~Asi
Male


Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 200
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Veritas]
    #7420496 - 09/17/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
IMO, if you truly felt that it was OK, you would not feel the need to justify your behavior.  :shrug:





I'm sure you do things you feel are OK and yet you find yourself justifying those. As do many people. "John, you purchased another CD? That is the 5th CD this week". "Well I really like the artist! He just rocks on track #7, listen and you'll know what I mean!!"

Quote:

adrug said:
You can rationalize all you want, but you're still just a thief.




That is about as powerful of a statement adrug as me going to a gay man: "Rationalize all you want, but you're still homo".


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420504 - 09/17/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Why justify anything you do? Merely do or do not. Justification is a waste of personal power.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420510 - 09/17/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Nope.  If I feel it is OK, then I don't think about it afterward.  Except to enjoy, of course. :grin:  If I think that my decision was not-so-great, then I'll consider why I disapprove.  Any attempts on my part to justify behavior are cause for suspicion and self-examination.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420856 - 09/17/07 06:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I fully agree with you and steal myself on occasion - mostly expensive health food and herbal medicine type items, but occasionally clothing or camping equipment. I tend to steal things that are utilitarian, but outside of a reasonable price range. I also don't think it's any more 'wrong' to steal luxury items than simple necessities. But then I'm amoral...:shrug:

I think the only phrase you need to argue in favour of shoplifting is Proudhon's 'property is theft.' What this means is that capitalism itself is a gigantic sytem designed to allow one class to steal the time and labour of the working class, therefore shoplifting is a small way of expropriating some of what is stolen from us every single day. One could even argue, if they wanted to, that shoplifting is more morally correct than purchasing items. But that is a whole realm I don't have the energy or will to delve into at the moment.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Veritas]
    #7420862 - 09/17/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Nope.  If I feel it is OK, then I don't think about it afterward.  Except to enjoy, of course. :grin:  If I think that my decision was not-so-great, then I'll consider why I disapprove.  Any attempts on my part to justify behavior are cause for suspicion and self-examination.




Have you never done anything that you felt was completely acceptable according to your own moral standards, yet most people find completely unacceptable? In such a situation would you not feel to need to defend yourself against those who criticize you for your immorality?


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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 3 days, 15 hours
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7420872 - 09/17/07 06:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Proudhon was a smart guy, I enjoy his writing. If anyone's interested.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420886 - 09/17/07 06:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SlvrZeta said:
My spirits are lifted when I shoplift from corporate companies/chain grocery stores. I do not steal from little shops, mom & pop stores, etc. I like WalMart, Target, and the chain supermarkets. Here is my justification:

1) morality is subjective

2) the CEO of WalMart doesn't need another gold doorknob or Mercedes Benz.

3) Life is expensive as it is. How is it fair that the proletariat earn a shitty wage like $7.50/hr -- year after year -- when inflation is a constant battle? I don't know about you but my salary is still the same after 6 months --- and I can assure you gas prices, food prices, etc have ALL gone up in the past 6 months --- but I haven't had a raise to combat these threats.

4) people who would "never shoplift" are usually people who download music, DVDs, and video games --- all objects which cost money at a retail store.

5) Capitalism by its nature is all about stealing. For every dollar you have in your pocket, that is one less dollar somebody else has in theirs (I see some debates with this one --- zero-sum economy and all that).

6) The motto of capitalism: "YOU WORK I WIN!"

7) Is it fair that a gallon of milk should cost $4.99 (that is what it is in this state everywhere)?

8) Shoplifting a few items can ease the pain of actually having to use money, ie, like filling up your gas tank (although stealing gasoline can be a pastime for some).




so you take your frustration, frustration that is caused because you are a failure at life, out on corporations and justify it with this bullshit?
It isnt the governments job to take care of you. That is your job. It is the governments job to ensure a safe, cohesive society.
Chances are, you are probably such a fuck-up that you waste what little money you have on stupid shit and then cry when your electricity gets turned off, so you think that it is ok to steal the stupid, useless, shiny object that you think you deserve to save money for lifes needs...
No one garauntee's you happiness. Life isnt fair.
The funny thing is that it is people exactly like you who shout "socialism/communism is the way!".... which are the very people who fuck up societies like that.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7420901 - 09/17/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Holy personalisms there buddy. Why don't you try and make a real argument?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7420907 - 09/17/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I will take a little ban just to let this guy know how much of a waste of life he is.
He is the epitome of niggerdom.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7420911 - 09/17/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the epitome of niggerdom?

Hey mods, can we get that little ban over here? Someone's begging for it. :rolleyes:


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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 3 days, 15 hours
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7420913 - 09/17/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Somebody's got a case of the Moooooondayyyyyyyyyys. :sad:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: Lion]
    #7420922 - 09/17/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I just find that it is an attitude like the one the thread starter has that is wrong with this country, and probably a few other countries.

They want to claim PLUR but they are really just looking out for number one.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7420942 - 09/17/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

If you accept responsibility for your actions there is no need to defend anything.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Shoplifting can be morally right. [Re: SlvrZeta]
    #7420970 - 09/17/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

By stealing, you're taking away money from the employees, not the managers.


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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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