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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
#7414471 - 09/15/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you can show a system where everybody gets richer, then please, do so. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is such a thing.
I think civilization in general is an example of such a system. Since the beginning of civilization life spans have increased, populations have increased, the amount of living space a person has increased, the amount of energy available to each person has increased, oppurtinities for personal choice of fulfillment has increased, the amount of food available to each person has increased, the list goes on... I think most civilizations in most of history have exhibited this to some extent.
This is in general of course. You pointed out a few places where this is not the case, but that is not the general trend. The general trend of humanity is the rich get richer and the poor get richer. They may not get richer at the same rate, but both classes are getting richer.
This growth has been slow for the thousands of years preceding, but now I believe we are poised for this growth to change faster than ever.
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
#7414556 - 09/15/07 09:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seuss writes:
Quote:
Capitalism does not lead to everybody getting richer.
Not everybody, no. There will always be a certain very small percentage of people unable to support themselves. This is true in any political system, of course. But the "poor" in any country that has been at least quasi-capitalist for say half a century or more are vastly better off than the poor in non-capitalist countries.
Phred
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Phred]
#7415514 - 09/16/07 05:16 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know if the poor in a capitalist society are better off than the poor in a socialist society (or non-capitalist society). I suspect you are correct, based upon what I have seen in my travels. Nobody has brought it up yet, so I will. To me, what capitalism offers is the chance for anybody, regardless of being born into the elite, regardless of being poor, anybody has the opportunity to become "king".
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
#7416067 - 09/16/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by Arp (09/16/07 12:04 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
#7416346 - 09/16/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 07:24 PM)
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Arp
roving mycophagist


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
#7416432 - 09/16/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wouldn't you consider a country like Peru more of a capitalistic society than the USA? There government control is far less, you can buy an university diploma on the black market and practice pretty much anything you would desire. If you get in trouble most times bribes can work in your favor. And you can easily avoid paying tax.
They even had a fake-Peruvian president not so long ago.
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BrAiN
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Arp]
#7416514 - 09/16/07 12:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's either what we have now or communism.
Personally.. I'll take what we have now. At least this way the poor have a fighting chance if they're smart emough.
In communism, you don't have any choices. Period. And you're still opressed... just by the government instead of companies.
It's all the same shit.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: BrAiN]
#7416594 - 09/16/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm just saying that it isn't capitalism alone that has taken us to where we are today. It's a hybrid system utilizing a little of everything in various amounts.
Which I find pretty nice as well. No worries in the world besides having to clean the litter box.
But I'm curious how well we would be off without the cheap labor of other systems where people are treated like dirt.
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EntheogenicPeace
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: BrAiN]
#7417399 - 09/16/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 07:24 PM)
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: BrAiN]
#7423446 - 09/18/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: It's either what we have now or communism.
Capitalism has been, currently is, and can be many different things. Capitalism in pre-industrial Britain was an entirely different game than capitalism in contemporary Britain, which is significantly different than capitalism in America.
For example capitalism with a 100% inheritance tax would still be capitalism. Capitalism without child labor laws would still be capitalism. Capitalism without a military would still be capitalism. Capitalism with state mandatory executions of anyone over 30 would still be capitalism.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: gluke bastid]
#7423496 - 09/18/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea true...
Just seems that capitalism and communism are really easy to exploit. Capitalism, because it's such a free and open system, is easy to let the greedy fuck everyone else. Communism, because all the masses are pretty much 'broken', it's easy for a power hungry fool to take advantage of it and step up to control the sedated crowd.
I'm not anti capitalism. I hate commies. But the flavor of capitalism right now seems to be polarizing everyone into rich or poor categories and as I heard someone once say "Once the middle class wakes up and realized they don't have the power anymore.. that's when a Revolution happens".
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: BrAiN]
#7423521 - 09/18/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> I hate commies.
I wouldn't claim to hate commies... in theory, communism is a great system. Unfortunately, theory and reality (in this case) are very far removed from one another. (Communism only works where there is enough to go around that anybody can have anything they want at any time they want... something that will never be a reality.)
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
#7423530 - 09/18/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > I hate commies.
I wouldn't claim to hate commies... in theory, communism is a great system. Unfortunately, theory and reality (in this case) are very far removed from one another. (Communism only works where there is enough to go around that anybody can have anything they want at any time they want... something that will never be a reality.)
Let me rephrase
I hate the commies that act like it's all justified to overthrow a gov't by blowing up innocent ppl like they do frequently in south america.
And commies like Kim Jong Il that decide to fuck their masses over to huddle to any ounce of power they have left to muster..
And commies that start a war and kill millions of people in genocide (cough cough Cambodia) in order to claim power.
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zappaisgod
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: BrAiN]
#7425069 - 09/18/07 06:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Communism is inconsistent with immutable human nature. The notion that we are created equal is a fiction. The notion that we are all created equal "under law" is one of the greatest ideas we have ever invented. Capitalism is the greatest expression of that difference.
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gluke bastid
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: zappaisgod]
#7427576 - 09/19/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Communism is inconsistent with immutable human nature. The notion that we are created equal is a fiction. The notion that we are all created equal "under law" is one of the greatest ideas we have ever invented. Capitalism is the greatest expression of that difference.
I am anti communist and pro capitalist but the arguement that capitalism is the best expression of human nature is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Its so dumb I don't even know where to start. It's an intellectual turd that is so massive and built on so many bad ideas that deconstructing it would require an army.
Suffice to say that people used to say the same thing about Feudalism, that it was in keeping with "the natural state of man." The said the same thing about the slavery system. Of course the system you are in seems "natural." But its a totally subjective experience.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: gluke bastid]
#7428003 - 09/19/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i would answer that human nature is very mutable and dynamic..which is why it doesnt mesh well with things that look good on paper..such as neoconservatism (as witness iraq) and communism...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: gluke bastid]
#7428282 - 09/19/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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gluke_bastid writes:
Quote:
I am anti communist and pro capitalist but the arguement that capitalism is the best expression of human nature is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Actually, Capitalism isn't even an "ism" at all. It's nothing more than what people do when left alone.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: gluke bastid]
#7428480 - 09/19/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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One of the dumbest things I have ever read is that you think I wrote this:
"capitalism is the best expression of human nature"
I didn't. Reread.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Phred]
#7428484 - 09/19/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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mastrubate?
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gluke bastid
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Phred]
#7428490 - 09/19/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: Actually, Capitalism isn't even an "ism" at all. It's nothing more than what people do when left alone. Phred
Left alone? By who? Do you mean not having to answer to govrenment or authority? Because that's anarchy. I think you could argue that anarachism is not an "ism," but capitalism requires government, technology, military, resources, classes, currency, the whole shebang. How could you have capitalism without capital itself? I don't understand "left alone." Who, or what, is leaving these rhetorical people alone?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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