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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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"are the rich necessary??"...
    #7413223 - 09/15/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070915/bs_nm/businessbooks_wealthy_dc

Quote:

Investment adviser asks if wealthy are necessary

By Lisa Von Ahn2 hours, 15 minutes ago

At a time when a CEO of a large U.S. company is likely to earn in one day what the average worker does in a year, an investment adviser takes the income-disparity controversy a few steps further in "Are the Rich Necessary?"

That question, almost unthinkable in a capitalist society, is one of many that Cambridge Associates LLC co-founder Hunter Lewis poses in his latest book (Axios Press, $20).

Lewis, the author of "A Question of Values" and "The Beguiling Serpent," also looks at the profit motive, its effect on democracy and society, and the roles government and central banks should play in wealth distribution.

"Are the Rich Necessary?" offers no simple or even definitive statements on these complex issues. Instead, Lewis presents a cross-section of often divergent viewpoints, in keeping with the book's subtitle: "Great Economic Arguments and How They Reflect Our Personal Values."

These are generally arguments with no clear winner.

On the question of whether the rich are necessary, for example, one school of thought considers them decadent parasites who reap the harvest sown by those less fortunate than themselves.

But another theory contends that any government seizure and redistribution of the fruits of that harvest would cause buyers to disappear and prices to plummet.

There's also the concept that the wealthy are both outnumbered and outgunned financially by the rest of society. As a result, the average consumer rules, and millionaires and billionaires are mere public servants, trustees or social agents, although Lewis acknowledges that such a view might surprise even the deep-pocketed.

In terms of the profit system, some consider it unfair and inefficient, pitting employers against workers. Others say the quest for earnings leads to increased supply and lower prices, benefiting people who have to watch what they spend.

THE PHILANTHROPIC APPROACH

Many theorists advocate progressive taxation -- in which the rich pay more -- as a way to ease the effects of income inequality, but Lewis sees great promise in expanding the nonprofit sector, an area in which he has decades of experience.

He helped start Cambridge Associates in 1973 after working on a review of Harvard University's investment approach, and nonprofit organizations are still the firm's main client base. He has also sat on board and committees of 15 not-for-profit groups.

Philanthropic associations could take over many government functions, such as social services, health, housing and education, Lewis writes. The government could either fund these groups directly or encourage the wealthy to do so with tax credits.

One scenario, he said, would be a simple income tax with only a few allowed deductions. The poor would be fully exempt, and the initial tax bracket would fund the government.

There would also be one or two higher brackets for the rich, who could either pay these additional taxes directly to the government or receive a full tax credit by donating the same amount to registered charities.

An estate tax whose revenues would go to nonprofit organizations is another possibility.

Enlarging this sector, which now accounts for only about 8 percent of the U.S. economy, would mean more money would flow directly to the needy, Lewis said. He also sees philanthropic organizations as more creative and responsive to the people they are trying to help.

But even here, he is careful to list possible objections, such as an aversion to donations as government policy and concerns that charities could become bloated and inefficient.

Still, he sees the nonprofit approach as one way to bring the various economic factions together.

"An expansion of philanthropic values," he writes, " ... could offer a way forward out of the old, bitter, and often sterile economic quarrels of the past."




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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7413226 - 09/15/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

someone has to win the game, and someone has to lose.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7413299 - 09/15/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

thats just begging the question.. that being whether the zero-sum game is the only game in town...and all the empirical evidence suggests otherwise...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7413389 - 09/15/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
thats just begging the question.. that being whether the zero-sum game is the only game in town...and all the empirical evidence suggests otherwise...


Exactly, like in america. The rich get richer and the poor get richer.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7413466 - 09/15/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
thats just begging the question.. that being whether the zero-sum game is the only game in town...and all the empirical evidence suggests otherwise...




:thumbup:  I never felt that winning that game was at all worthwhile as far a really enjoying life. When I had enough I quit and started playing . I didn't need much either. Most of my peers will have to work another fifteen years or more to be able to stop. I have never been the type to believe that too much is never enough. That IMO is completely fear based, on primitive animal emotional states.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Icelander]
    #7413606 - 09/15/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes the rich are necessary. Without some sort of financial incentive, few would work.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlineledfut
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: badchad]
    #7413627 - 09/15/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

uhhh...how's dying of starvation for motivation?


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: badchad]
    #7413634 - 09/15/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The incentive to provide food and shelter has been around far longer then $$. One also creates incentive with interest in something.

It doesn't have to just be stored riches and power over others. I think it's one choice, and usually fear based at that. Fear of lack and limited resources. Unfortunately when that pattern is set most rarely know when they have enough and continue on automatic pilot for the rest of their lives believing that is all there is.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: ledfut]
    #7413638 - 09/15/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

But the truth is nobody in western democracies dies of starvation. There is free food for anybody in every major city, both in the form of soup kitchens where you eat it there, and food banks where you take it home.

Of course in places like rhodesia its a different story.... there starvation is very real problem, even if you do work.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7413873 - 09/15/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I have never had a job working for a pan handler. There at least needs to be employers. Rich or not.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: DieCommie]
    #7413930 - 09/15/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> Exactly, like in america. The rich get richer and the poor get richer.

Human nature. America and capitalism have nothing to do with it. Look at Venezula, Cuba, North Korea, China, etc... the poor are kept poor while the ruling elite have whatever they want. I think Icelander summed up my feelings fairly well, but for many, greed is their nature.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
    #7413950 - 09/15/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Im not sure I get your point...

What I meant was there doesnt need to be a system where only the rich get richer... In some systems everybody gets richer. In fact, I would say that is the overall trend in all civilizations (though very slowly at first), barring anomalies through the years like the places you mentioned.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: DieCommie]
    #7413952 - 09/15/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


In some systems everybody gets richer




Capitalism.
And to the original poster: Yes, the rich are necessary for our economy to succeed.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
    #7414315 - 09/15/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 07:22 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: DieCommie]
    #7414327 - 09/15/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> In some systems everybody gets richer.

I'm claiming that such a system exists only as a fantasy. Were energy to become free, then I agree, such a system could exist, but until then, human nature will rule meaning that greed will result in "financial" disparity within the population.

I provided many socialist examples that are failures of equality. If you can show a system where everybody gets richer, then please, do so. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is such a thing.

> Capitalism.

Capitalism does not lead to everybody getting richer. Unemployment being a counter example.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
    #7414332 - 09/15/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No, it doesn't. But it gives its citizens the ability and reason to acquire wealth.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7414360 - 09/15/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> Since being elected to power, Hugo Chavez has cut the pay of politicians & government officials

And yet Hugo and his buddies live like royalty while the poor are still living in tin huts.

> Have you been to Venezuela in the last 10 years?

Yes. It is interesting; there is very little middle class left. I've only been in the areas where people take their boats during hurricane season, but in those areas, small business owners are a thing of the past. From what I see, Chavez has managed to bribe the poor at the expense of the middle class. It will be interesting to see how the country does as their oil starts to run out.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
    #7414381 - 09/15/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 07:23 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
    #7414405 - 09/15/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 07:23 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: "are the rich necessary??"... [Re: Seuss]
    #7414431 - 09/15/07 08:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 07:23 PM)


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