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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: ]
    #743223 - 07/13/02 06:00 AM (22 years, 10 days ago)

What is my wife's name?

Does it rhyme with harmonica?



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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleXibalba
Stranger
Registered: 05/13/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: ]
    #743350 - 07/13/02 07:42 AM (22 years, 10 days ago)

Postmodern deconstructivism- bleah. Sorry, I've been fed so much of that in school I've developed a mild allergic reaction to it.

Derrida is no different from Hegel, in my mind. They both thought they had the final meta-philosophy to explain it all, and there couldn't be anything beyond it.
These postmodern academic people think what they're doing is so new and 'transgressive...' Well, the world's been 'postmodern' since before I was born, and it's just getting old already.

I'm not sure it has the ability to add anything new to human thought. Merely to discredit the old by drowning it in pretentious rhetoric. But then what? If these beliefs are wrong (ok- we can't say 'wrong' anymore- "problematic...") what do you expect to replace them with? So it's the opposite problem. Now we're so hyper-inclusive of all viewpoints that we can't make a meaninful statement about anything.

And we're still just exhuming thoughts and attitudes from the 1950s to take them apart and spit on them and pat ourselves on the back for being so enlightened. Come on. Get over it. Do something new...






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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Xibalba]
    #743571 - 07/13/02 10:35 AM (22 years, 10 days ago)

God I love good posts like this. Thanks Xibalba.

Come on. Get over it. Do something new...
I've been trying to create as many new things as possible. It sucks when you are at the prototype stage and you're still stuck with using others' terminology with connotations you don't want to get into. You state the first sentence of a book and someone jumps on your ass and tries to dissect your unfinished manuscript (or thought). It is incredibly frustrating and it is definitely a major barrier for me.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: ]
    #743739 - 07/13/02 12:38 PM (22 years, 10 days ago)

Mr_Mushrooms:
How could I be open to receive the answer and have it at the same time?
I don't know, that's why I was puzzled by your previous statement, "Each of us has the answers we are open to receiving."

Mr_Mushrooms:
I did not imply that the questions or answers dealt with empirical data...
Sorry, I interpreted your statement differently because there was no indication that it excluded empirical data. This is not a reflection on you, but I've become accustomed in this forum to reading many posts from others for which such a statement would apply to empirical data.

Edited by Evolving (07/13/02 12:39 PM)

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Offlinellib
journeyman
Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 129
Loc: florida
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Xibalba]
    #743914 - 07/13/02 02:56 PM (22 years, 10 days ago)

Your post is the basic tenet of hegel's philosophy. When things are proposed as being binary, it is easier to control both sides.
he said
thesis versus anithesis
equal synthesis
meaning that typiclly when things are presented in binary form, there is often a third party controllingboth sides.

for the conspiracy oriented person, this is felt to be how the "new world order" controls most of its interests.
democrats versus republicans, hmm, 19 presidents were of a bloodline related to king charlemagne and 32 to the bloodline of king hnery the 8th. Some fringe writers believe it is simply the person with the most "blue-blood that wins an election, helped by the one controlling group.

i will leave opne who that group may be for discussion, but world banking comes to mind
this world trade center thing is uncannily timed with a period when there is a strong push for world government, world, banking, world, army


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OfflineArisEve
My Chronic

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 373
Loc: Use a GPS if ya wanna kno...
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: ]
    #744238 - 07/13/02 06:37 PM (22 years, 10 days ago)

wow... lets get swami, mr mushrooms, xibalba,sclorch all in one big room and just feed off their knowledge... truely amazing what you can learn on a board that revolves drugs... quite intreguing.


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Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: ]
    #744448 - 07/13/02 08:59 PM (22 years, 9 days ago)

I don't know, that's why I was puzzled by your previous statement, "Each of us has the answers we are open to receiving."

You have been coming to this board for HOW long? Like you haven't seen this type of "thinking" repeatedly portrayed.

Ever notice how people only say good post when they agree with what someone is saying? Identification with group-think is much more important than any possible truth.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Xibalba]
    #744553 - 07/13/02 10:30 PM (22 years, 9 days ago)

Very, very nice thread.

Black and white thinking.
Drawing those good ole battle lines had made many a man a superficially super man.
Just take one end of the spectrum and pit it against the other pole and watch the sparks fly.
Sit back and say I told ya so.

The battle of us vs. them and it's so damn old.
It will never end here.
Oh no!! Never here!!
On and on and on and on....

Nature vs. nurture...
Does art shape people or do people shape art?
Of course art both reflects and shapes reality. Duh.
Its a false choice but the damn thing goes on and on...

I worry about our humanity when we fall into that game so blindly.
We forget its a game and try to eliminate that "evil half". The one we don't understand.
Hell, even as an individual I've fallen prey to that trap.
I've been demonized, scapegoated, blackballed, blacklisted, railroaded, ripped off, run -out -of -town -on- a -rail, and the villagers have come out once or twice with their torches on a dark night of their own creation to project their collective fears onto me.

It must be my special fate to get this unique perspective on this issue and report to you from the front lines of binary belief to tell you it's a war (out there haha) and being in the middle of it is the only sane place to be, yet it's also the most uncomfortable place to be. But if I don't stand out here in no man's land and endure it, I won't have any more company. I have no martyrs complex; I want to live in peace like anybody, but I can't stop these foolish people from their endless, hopeless battle against one half of their own nature.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Swami]
    #744602 - 07/13/02 11:45 PM (22 years, 9 days ago)

Ever notice how people only say good post when they agree with what someone is saying?

Swami, just yesterday in the post "What I think" I wrote to Evolving of our difference in views:

"Evolving, I think this is great...I think we will understand each other and our views better because of it. Love to you!"

Also in a Post to Sclorch on the topic "DMT - Any Theories?"
I said in relation to our difference of opinion " Seriously, I don't mind talking about this and I enjoy communicating with you. I don't agree with you about many things but you can learn something from everyone and besides you are an intelligent guy. Challenge my beliefs anytime. "

My point is this, I can't speak for anyone else but I honestly respect EVERYONE'S opinions whether or not they agree with me. BTW, that includes your opinion.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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Anonymous

Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Xibalba]
    #744809 - 07/14/02 04:42 AM (22 years, 9 days ago)

Sorry to hear about your allergy. Deconstructionism gives me a rash.

"Derrida is no different from Hegel, in my mind. They both thought they had the final meta-philosophy to explain it all, and there couldn't be anything beyond it.
These postmodern academic people think what they're doing is so new and 'transgressive...' Well, the world's been 'postmodern' since before I was born, and it's just getting old already."

It is not only getting old but wrong as well.

"I'm not sure it has the ability to add anything new to human thought. Merely to discredit the old by drowning it in pretentious rhetoric. But then what? If these beliefs are wrong (ok- we can't say 'wrong' anymore- "problematic...") what do you expect to replace them with? So it's the opposite problem. Now we're so hyper-inclusive of all viewpoints that we can't make a meaninful statement about anything."

The answers to dilemmas facing mankind were parsed out long ago. The bane of "modern philosophy" started in the Middle, or Dark if you prefer, Ages when philosophers tired of the pendantic, pedagogical teaching of the ancients rejected them out of hand without even considering if they had any value. Entire systems were developed later, Kant is a good example, to lift philosophy out of the quagmire it had gotten itself into. Unfortunately, philosophy has never recovered and can only offer inane answers to any meaningful question that comes its way. The minor errors in Aristotle can be corrected by his own methods but very few thought to try that.

I think that the "doing something new" attitude comes from our fascination with empirical science. It is an egregious error to expect philosophy to improve with the same rate of speed that empirical science does. The two disciplines function in separate mediums making such progress for philosophy nigh impossible.

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Anonymous

Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Swami]
    #744830 - 07/14/02 04:57 AM (22 years, 9 days ago)

"I don't know, that's why I was puzzled by your previous statement, "Each of us has the answers we are open to receiving."

You have been coming to this board for HOW long? Like you haven't seen this type of "thinking" repeatedly portrayed.

Ever notice how people only say good post when they agree with what someone is saying? Identification with group-think is much more important than any possible truth."


While my statement may seem esoteric it is true. If you disagree please explain why. Perhaps restating it would help.

If a person is closed to an answer they cannot receive it. Is that better?

Identification with group-think is important to people because it provides them with affiliation which is a foundation of society. People only value what they can conceive to have value, obviously. If, as you say, group-think is more important than any possible truth to everyone then there wouldn't be someone like me or anyone who doesn't care what the group thinks as much as they care about finding truth. People, as a rule, are not used to thinking. Perhaps they cannot see the value in it. Perhaps they want something that yields its fruit immediately. Sometimes thinking, especially esoteric thinking, does not evidence itself that way. Hence, they choose the immediate and "go along with the crowd". Stating the truth, even if it is obviously, goes against the grain and can cause a person to be outcast, black-balled, you name it.

If there is anything that is lacking nowadays, in my opinion, it is courage. I have known quite a few intelligent people but very few courageous ones.

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Anonymous

Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: ]
    #745319 - 07/14/02 11:01 AM (22 years, 9 days ago)

If a person is closed to an answer they cannot receive it. Is that better?

Yes.

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Offlineerectronik
newbie

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 34
Loc: zeitung unter den See
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: Binary belief systems. [Re: Xibalba]
    #746958 - 07/15/02 12:29 AM (22 years, 8 days ago)

Why not cure binary thought-problems with invention of some new words?

Like, "Pan-True", meaning, "true for most of the time, in most important situations"
or "Quasi-True", meaning "true for some of the time,...
Help me, I'm no good at prefixes, especially for denoting "importance"

Anyway, what I think I'm getting at, is that we should revamp our language! Put some of this analog thought into practice, damn it!

Wanna change the world? Speaking new words might catch public interest. What do you think?


--------------------
"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.

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