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Offlinethegnome_2
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Registered: 06/28/07
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poison mushrooms
    #7411484 - 09/14/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

what exactly makes a mushroom so poisonus.. is there only one type or poison or is there many.. i recall reading that tropane cures some type of poisoning from mushrooms.. )the nightshade and other tropane plants etc)....


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Invisiblegreys
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: thegnome_2]
    #7412190 - 09/15/07 06:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

there are different types of toxins.....Amanitas have (surprise) Amatoxins that interfere with liver and kidney functions etc......Coprinus sp. mushrooms have a chemical that was the inspiration for antibuse...it interferes with the livers ability to process alcohol, Gyromitras have (surprise!) Gyromitrin which is a carcinogen and also MMH which is a chemical found in rocket fuel.
Many agarics concentrate heavy metals in such amounts that they become poisonous--remember even too much water can be a toxin.
Interestingly some edible mushrooms contain level of toxins....just low levels. Morels i beleive contain trace amounts of amatoxins.


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: greys]
    #7412319 - 09/15/07 08:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Unless you suck in so much water that you burst your innards, water is most un-toxic, mind. Ignore that, but respect the rest. Heavy metals are bad for you, but organic spinach is no worse than your average mushy. Fish can contain heavy metals too, but it doesn't stop us from enjoying salmon and tuna (which, at the top of the fish food chain, contain the most of these metals despite being the most popular).

I've never heard of tropane alkaloids being a cure for mushroom poisoning, but (like most things) it wouldn't surprise me altogether--just get that from a medical source, not geocities. And even then, don't trust it to save your life. There are lots of toxins in mushrooms, just as there are lots of toxins in plants and animals--fungus is a widely-varied kingdom, and you shouldn't ever imagine that just because you know something about one you know something about the other. What I mean is: If you eat a poisonous amanita, don't go eat a potato and a tomato (or a po-TAH-to and a tom-AH-to) and expect the tropane to save you! :smile:

Morels do not contain amatoxins. "False" morels, which are not common but are sometimes found in the States, contain some gyromitrin. This means they are safe when parboiled but potentially deadly raw. Learn how to spot real morels and you're fine--false morels don't actually look much like real ones at all, at least to me. Even the false ones taste okay though, just make sure you boil the crap out of them. They're even allowed to sell them overseas, from what I hear, but with warnings and such about preparation.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (09/15/07 08:23 AM)


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Invisiblegreys
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7414059 - 09/15/07 06:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

whatever- mushrooms contain a variety of toxins...be careful what you eat


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Edited by greys (09/15/07 06:25 PM)


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7414815 - 09/15/07 10:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This means they are safe when parboiled but potentially deadly raw.

Bad advice, false morels should not be eaten. They should not be considered safe when parboiled.


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Invisiblegreys
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: falcon]
    #7416294 - 09/16/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

and you can drink too much water

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/5/f/blwaterintox.htm


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Offlinecoda
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: greys]
    #7416370 - 09/16/07 11:40 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Unless you suck in so much water that you burst your innards, water is most un-toxic,




water toxicity is a very real, and very deadly, occurrence in life. Read about a lot of MDMA related deaths and you'll see water toxicity pop up in a bunch of cases.


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Offlinethegnome_2
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: coda]
    #7417422 - 09/16/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

well i mean common sence if you drink a 5 gallon bucket of water your going to end up somewhere..swimming in yourself or dead.. as far as the tropane cure let me dbl check... i want to say its something in fly agaric types of mushrooms.....ill do some more research... btw thanks for all the info


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: thegnome_2]
    #7417475 - 09/16/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

im pretty sure tropines have been used a a cure of muscarine poisoning. because it goes into the muscarinic receptors, and tropines block those receptors... or so ive heard. :tongue:


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Offlinethegnome_2
TheGnome


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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7420768 - 09/17/07 06:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

YEP thats what i read to


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: falcon]
    #7427013 - 09/19/07 06:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
This means they are safe when parboiled but potentially deadly raw.

Bad advice, false morels should not be eaten. They should not be considered safe when parboiled.




I'm not telling anyone to do it. Eating anything cooked that is poisonous when raw is goddamned stupid, or at least a potential risk. Still, they are sold in some countries (with warnings), and so that's a pretty good basis for saying they can indeed be prepared safely.

Whether or not some putz on the internet knows how to parboil something properly is another matter, but again, not my problem; he can get this information anywhere.


Coda: Talking about hyperhydration? Okay, I guess that's a point, but it does involve an absolutely ridiculous quantity of water intake, enough that internal damage would probably occur before you actually caused an electrolyte imbalance. That's excluding the case of a pre-existing electrolyte deficiency... e.g. I've heard of it happening from someone who's been sweating all day (ALL day) with no water, then drank two gallons straight, etc.

Even still I've always heard death from hyperhydration is super-rare. But I guess it's just a tangent anyway. :smile:


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Edited by figgusfiddus (09/19/07 06:15 AM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7436335 - 09/21/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This page has some good info on the various mycotoxins found in mushrooms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_poisoning

I think it is pretty complete, please let me know if anyone knows of any toxins that are missing.

I wish I knew what the actual chemical in many of the mushrooms that cause GI upset were, but that information is hard to come by if it exists at all.


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OfflineAndrew47
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7436458 - 09/21/07 12:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hi Alan,

I may be wrong but I remember reading that the mushrooms' high makeup of chitin makes them hard to digest, giving some GI upset

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: poison mushrooms [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7437090 - 09/21/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Omphalotus olearius causes some nasty symptoms, should not be considered mildly poisonous.

Chlorophyllum molybdites is not mentioned in the wiki.

Suillus species and other species with slimey caps and or stems can cause diarrhea for some that eat them.


Edited by falcon (09/21/07 03:25 PM)


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