Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!!
    #7411148 - 09/14/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

this is for all you non believers that think that age doesn't affect potency...you are wrong! i found this quote from an FBI investigation that Elphinstone had posted back in 2002. this is scientific proof that if you are looking for potentcy, you should harvest while the shrooms are still in the juvenile stage. this is just an excerpt from his post, but if you wanna read the whole thread(which is very interesting), here it is, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/525084#525084

read the part in red...

"Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World." Paul Stamets, ISBN 0-89815-839-7, (1996)

The author writes on page 51 and 52:

"After drying, seal them in an air-tight plastic bag and freeze them. This will preserve their
potency for the longest possible time. All species gradually lose their potency over time. Many
species will lose most of their original potency after a few years of storage.
P. semilanceata seems to degrade slowly, making it an excellent species
to store over long periods of time. This is largely due to its relatively high psilocybin and low
psilocin content. (Chart at top of p. 40 omitted.) Psilocin is unstable compared to psilocybin.
Recent studies have also shown that Psilocybe azurescens, a new species
from the Pacific Northwest, also degrades slowly, having approximately the same psilocybin and
psilocin content after six months of storage as when it was fresh. However, most psilocybin
mushrooms stored longer than a year usually show a significant loss of potency, especially in psilocin."

"Another factor affecting the potency of Psilocybes is the condition of the mushrooms at harvesting.
Older specimens, infested with parasites, will be less potent than younger specimens that were
harvested in pristine condition. Specimens that have dried in the sun, are water soaked, have been
frozen, or have become old vary in potency -- complicating determination of dosage.
However, many of us have found that, by mass, the juvenile mushrooms are usually much more potent
than the adults."


it deffinately helps to do your research! i have been reading all kinds of bullsh!t that ppl post about this topic, and i have finally gotten some info that is very reputable!


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisible2012shaman
Stranger

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 338
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411195 - 09/14/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I believe juvenile shrooms probably do have more potency but then why does everyone say to harvest at maturity when the cap opens and breaks the veil?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineburmesepsylicibe
All is One
Male


Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 94
Loc: Antarctica
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: 2012shaman]
    #7411217 - 09/14/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

they say it is the sweet spot between mass and potency. plus i feel like the shroom should be allowed to sporulate. it'd be like sex w/o the nut. plus you cannot take a print til the veil breaks.


--------------------


one of these was an LC
Which do you think it was?

deformedreality said:
.. besides the dead body of that pig i hid under the perlite.. he was snooping around too much ;]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecalicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: 2012shaman]
    #7411230 - 09/14/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

While immature psilocybin mushrooms can be more potent by weight, mature mushrooms weigh much more and are more potent overall, because of this.

Lets say for arguments sake you have two mushrooms:

Immature - 2 grams 2X adult potency
Mature - 8 grams 1X adult potency

The 8 gram mushroom is still better because even though by percentage of body weight the smaller mushroom is more potent, the larger mushroom is still equivilant to 4 grams of the immature mushroom. It is more efficient to pick adult mushrooms, and you also have a more consistent potency by which you can measure dosage. Having uniform fruits is typically best.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411292 - 09/14/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

calicyco, that does not make sense, to correctly compare adult shrooms to juvenile shrooms, you would need to compare a juvenile of say 2 grams, to a 2 gram section of an adult. there is more potency in the 2 gram juvenile than compared to 2 grams of an adult shroom. if you are growing for yourself it would be more efficient to harvest juveniles...why eat the adult that contains more meat with the same amount of potency? but on the otherhand, if you are growing for the purpose of selling your fruits then yes it would be more efficient to let them mature, but then you will have a low grade product.


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRastaimposta
Apothecary


Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 227
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411304 - 09/14/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I already believe younger mushroom are more potent gram for gram than older ones, but I gotta tell you, this isnt a very persuasive argument.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewutang
fungi
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411313 - 09/14/07 10:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

calicyco said:
While immature psilocybin mushrooms can be more potent by weight, mature mushrooms weigh much more and are more potent overall, because



:yesnod:



they need to drop spores, with out them theres no print


--------------------
:peyotespectrum:    :sanpedro: :rainbowdrink: :tripping:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTaharka
The Root of the Problem
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 686
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411326 - 09/14/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What calicyo is saying makes perfect sense. Even if adult shrooms are less potent by weight, one still ends up with a larger overall yield of Psilocybin by allowing the shroom to mature. A cow might yield 2 liters of milk a day for its first two years of life, and then only 1 liter of milk a day for the next two, but that doesn't mean you should kill it on its third birthday. In the end, you'll still have more milk by keeping it around.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecalicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411349 - 09/14/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zero cool said:
calicyco, that does not make sense, to correctly compare adult shrooms to juvenile shrooms, you would need to compare a juvenile of say 2 grams, to a 2 gram section of an adult. there is more potency in the 2 gram juvenile than compared to 2 grams of an adult shroom. if you are growing for yourself it would be more efficient to harvest juveniles...why eat the adult that contains more meat with the same amount of potency? but on the otherhand, if you are growing for the purpose of selling your fruits then yes it would be more efficient to let them mature, but then you will have a low grade product.




Read carefully what I wrote. It is about potency to weight ratio. Take my example again:

Immature 2 grams 2X adult potency
Mature 8 grams 1X adult potency

Lets say that the amount of actives in the juvenile is 0.1 gram for arguments sake.

Immature specimen:
0.1 gram per 2 grams

Mature specimen
0.05 gram per 2 grams

Total actives in each:

Immature 0.1 gram (2 gram specimen)
Mature 0.2 gram (8 gram specimen)

The mature fruits contain more actives, but less by active/weight ratio.

The reason you don't harvest all juveniles is that there are only so many fruit a substrate will produce. Its about time versus quality. You are better off and will actually have more actives by letting them all mature, even though the weight will be much more. Each time you pick a mushroom, you introduce a contam vector.

Besides, you will harvest a lot of aborts anyway, so it all evens out.


Edited by calicyco (09/14/07 10:43 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecalicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411364 - 09/14/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

BTW, even Stamets has said its a matter of speculation that immature fruits are more potent. He believes it to be true, but doesn't have solid proof via actual lab tests showing it to be a rule and not only a possibility. It is likely, but not guaranteed. Its better to just go by the book and pick fruits when they are mature. Otherwise Stamets himself would not instruct you to pick them at maturity.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejeetered
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411374 - 09/14/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i am a firm believer genetics determine potency be it adult or immature carpaphore.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411394 - 09/14/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i thought that the quote from, "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World." by Paul Stamets would really clear some things up for you guys, but just like in any other thread about this topic, the debate really goes nowhere and just causes arguements. i guess we'll just have to go our own seperate ways on this one.


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411408 - 09/14/07 10:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

at what point would you call a mushroom mature? upon the veil breaking away from the cap? or do you let them go further than that?


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecalicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411413 - 09/14/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its not that controversial, its old information. That book was published 11 years ago. Many people here probably own a copy. Like I said, even if it is absolutely true, you are still better off growing to maturity. Stamets states this many times in many texts. Where is the controversy? The only controversy I could see would be by folks not speaking from knowledge but from hearsay and second hand information.

You posted a clear statement from the master of shrooms. Its a good post. It still doesn't mean you should pick them while immature :-)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecalicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411415 - 09/14/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

As soon as the veil tears, before it dumps spores. It is overripe if the cap flattens out and spores drop.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411452 - 09/14/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

this makes more sense now. i was under the impression that mature shrooms were defined as being at a state where the spores have already dropped. so, immature shrooms could be defined as being totally closed up...before the veil even starts to break away from the cap?


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411468 - 09/14/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the thing is they aren't even twice as potent when they're immature if it was twice as potent a baby cubensis would blow a Psilocybe azurescens out of the water with potency.

last flush I had was 5 oz dry. if I had picked them all super young i'd had maybe 1 oz. that would mean they would have to be 5 times as pottent as my fully matured mushrooms to balance it out. at that rate you would be eating .7 grams to trip like you where on an 8th of mature shrooms. that would also mean that if you're eating an 8th you're eating the equivalent of 17.5 grams of matured product. that doesn't really add up.

how large of a dose do you take of your baby mushrooms?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7411499 - 09/14/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

% of psilocybin and psilocyn in mushrooms. (these figures are from a few tested mushrooms and by all means does not mean that it is a deffinate average)
P. azurenscens
psilocybin 1.78
psilocin .38
P. cubensis
psilocybin .63
psilocin .60

magic 2x strength baby mushroom
psilocybin 1.26
psilocin 1.20

that makes baby cubes the most potent mushroom in the world. every one should stop growing pan cyans and just pick their cubes early. this is scientific proof.... oh wait no its fucking speculation maybe you should have realized that about your post before you said
Quote:

this is scientific proof that if you are looking for potentcy, you should harvest while the shrooms are still in the juvenile stage.




--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7411533 - 09/14/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

xhooliganx is a flamer, you have an anger prob dude. maybe you should switch your drug of choice to prozac. you need to chill out


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecalicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411543 - 09/14/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Of course they aren't 2X potent, that would be insane.

I grossly exaggerated to prove a point. Most likely, if true, juveniles would be like 1.05X not 2X as potent. EVEN IF they were 2X as potent, it would still be better to harvest mature fruits, that was my point.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411566 - 09/14/07 11:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

can you quote the part of my posts where I flamed you? was it my complicated mathematics? seems like you had a problem with calicyco's #'s as well.

I appreciate you trying to clear up an ongoing debate, but you're just looking at things from a perspective that you want to have super potent mushroms. it seems like it isn't very objective.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
    #7411585 - 09/14/07 11:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

calicyco said:
Of course they aren't 2X potent, that would be insane.

I grossly exaggerated to prove a point. Most likely, if true, juveniles would be like 1.05X not 2X as potent. EVEN IF they were 2X as potent, it would still be better to harvest mature fruits, that was my point.



yeah I totally got that from you I wasn't bashing what you where saying at all. I know you where trying to show simple math of how more mushrooms with less active to mass ratio still have more actives. I was just trying to show some #s to show how picking them when immauture is totally unefficient


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7411625 - 09/15/07 12:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

your numbers seem fine to me, and i had no prob with calicycos numbers either, all i had were questions. at least he had sensible and helpful input, and didnt try to make others look stupid...it is your sarcasm, imprudent responses, and excessive use of expletives(that i have noticed in other threads as well), that cause tension. just try to be a little more courteous, thats all im saying. thanks.


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411684 - 09/15/07 12:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

its fine if you don't like that i'm abrasive but I am by no means a flamer. I don't type in caps and call people idiots(well it slips some times). I just speak my mind clearly and don't candy coat things. Your interpretation of excesive expletives seems a little off, but that's just a personal preference I guess.

all in all I was just trying to hammer the point home before a bunch of poor noobs destroy their crop potential by picking their mushrooms far too early.

besides that my harshness was because you said it was scientific proof that they are more potent and if you cared about potency that you should pick when they are immature. it is obviosly not scientificly proven because there aren't chemical asays of multiple batches of cubes in various stages of development. the scientific method wasn't observed or even slightly considered in any of the speculated statements.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy
Male


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7411714 - 09/15/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i understand where you are coming from. and thank you for responding reasonably. i appreciate your help.


--------------------
git them mushrooms Mario! git em!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
    #7411773 - 09/15/07 01:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

no problem. i'm fairly reasonable


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Nasty shrooms? San Tropez 1,159 7 01/08/03 09:13 AM
by BC-Shroom
* How much more potent are fresh mushrooms? Fd3000 2,265 4 07/22/02 04:13 PM
by staindblue
* Myth about shroom harvest.......
( 1 2 3 all )
badjessejames 27,052 58 07/20/02 07:08 PM
by Zen Peddler
* Should shrooms touch dessicant shroom_assassin 4,115 10 07/16/02 04:51 PM
by straightbangin
* Cutting / breaking shrooms to dry? shroom_assassin 3,808 5 07/20/02 07:05 AM
by ralphster44
* Tales of eating contamed shrooms????????????? abraham 7,185 10 11/28/02 12:50 AM
by Shaw
* Shrooms Growing On Side of MycoBag FredMeyer420 3,379 10 07/20/02 05:57 PM
by Geordi_La_Forge
* drying shrooms Bob_J 6,641 19 11/12/02 04:33 PM
by MOE.shrooms

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
6,542 topic views. 18 members, 152 guests and 50 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 12 queries.