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zero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!!
#7411148 - 09/14/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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this is for all you non believers that think that age doesn't affect potency...you are wrong! i found this quote from an FBI investigation that Elphinstone had posted back in 2002. this is scientific proof that if you are looking for potentcy, you should harvest while the shrooms are still in the juvenile stage. this is just an excerpt from his post, but if you wanna read the whole thread(which is very interesting), here it is, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/525084#525084
read the part in red...
"Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World." Paul Stamets, ISBN 0-89815-839-7, (1996)
The author writes on page 51 and 52:
"After drying, seal them in an air-tight plastic bag and freeze them. This will preserve their potency for the longest possible time. All species gradually lose their potency over time. Many species will lose most of their original potency after a few years of storage. P. semilanceata seems to degrade slowly, making it an excellent species to store over long periods of time. This is largely due to its relatively high psilocybin and low psilocin content. (Chart at top of p. 40 omitted.) Psilocin is unstable compared to psilocybin. Recent studies have also shown that Psilocybe azurescens, a new species from the Pacific Northwest, also degrades slowly, having approximately the same psilocybin and psilocin content after six months of storage as when it was fresh. However, most psilocybin mushrooms stored longer than a year usually show a significant loss of potency, especially in psilocin."
"Another factor affecting the potency of Psilocybes is the condition of the mushrooms at harvesting. Older specimens, infested with parasites, will be less potent than younger specimens that were harvested in pristine condition. Specimens that have dried in the sun, are water soaked, have been frozen, or have become old vary in potency -- complicating determination of dosage. However, many of us have found that, by mass, the juvenile mushrooms are usually much more potent than the adults."
it deffinately helps to do your research! i have been reading all kinds of bullsh!t that ppl post about this topic, and i have finally gotten some info that is very reputable!
-------------------- git them mushrooms Mario! git em!
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2012shaman
Stranger

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 338
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411195 - 09/14/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe juvenile shrooms probably do have more potency but then why does everyone say to harvest at maturity when the cap opens and breaks the veil?
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burmesepsylicibe
All is One



Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 94
Loc: Antarctica
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: 2012shaman]
#7411217 - 09/14/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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they say it is the sweet spot between mass and potency. plus i feel like the shroom should be allowed to sporulate. it'd be like sex w/o the nut. plus you cannot take a print til the veil breaks.
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one of these was an LC Which do you think it was? deformedreality said: .. besides the dead body of that pig i hid under the perlite.. he was snooping around too much ;]
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calicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: 2012shaman]
#7411230 - 09/14/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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While immature psilocybin mushrooms can be more potent by weight, mature mushrooms weigh much more and are more potent overall, because of this.
Lets say for arguments sake you have two mushrooms:
Immature - 2 grams 2X adult potency Mature - 8 grams 1X adult potency
The 8 gram mushroom is still better because even though by percentage of body weight the smaller mushroom is more potent, the larger mushroom is still equivilant to 4 grams of the immature mushroom. It is more efficient to pick adult mushrooms, and you also have a more consistent potency by which you can measure dosage. Having uniform fruits is typically best.
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zero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411292 - 09/14/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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calicyco, that does not make sense, to correctly compare adult shrooms to juvenile shrooms, you would need to compare a juvenile of say 2 grams, to a 2 gram section of an adult. there is more potency in the 2 gram juvenile than compared to 2 grams of an adult shroom. if you are growing for yourself it would be more efficient to harvest juveniles...why eat the adult that contains more meat with the same amount of potency? but on the otherhand, if you are growing for the purpose of selling your fruits then yes it would be more efficient to let them mature, but then you will have a low grade product.
-------------------- git them mushrooms Mario! git em!
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Rastaimposta
Apothecary


Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 227
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411304 - 09/14/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I already believe younger mushroom are more potent gram for gram than older ones, but I gotta tell you, this isnt a very persuasive argument.
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wutang
fungi



Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411313 - 09/14/07 10:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
calicyco said: While immature psilocybin mushrooms can be more potent by weight, mature mushrooms weigh much more and are more potent overall, because

they need to drop spores, with out them theres no print
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Taharka
The Root of the Problem

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 686
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411326 - 09/14/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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What calicyo is saying makes perfect sense. Even if adult shrooms are less potent by weight, one still ends up with a larger overall yield of Psilocybin by allowing the shroom to mature. A cow might yield 2 liters of milk a day for its first two years of life, and then only 1 liter of milk a day for the next two, but that doesn't mean you should kill it on its third birthday. In the end, you'll still have more milk by keeping it around.
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calicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411349 - 09/14/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zero cool said: calicyco, that does not make sense, to correctly compare adult shrooms to juvenile shrooms, you would need to compare a juvenile of say 2 grams, to a 2 gram section of an adult. there is more potency in the 2 gram juvenile than compared to 2 grams of an adult shroom. if you are growing for yourself it would be more efficient to harvest juveniles...why eat the adult that contains more meat with the same amount of potency? but on the otherhand, if you are growing for the purpose of selling your fruits then yes it would be more efficient to let them mature, but then you will have a low grade product.
Read carefully what I wrote. It is about potency to weight ratio. Take my example again:
Immature 2 grams 2X adult potency Mature 8 grams 1X adult potency
Lets say that the amount of actives in the juvenile is 0.1 gram for arguments sake.
Immature specimen: 0.1 gram per 2 grams
Mature specimen 0.05 gram per 2 grams
Total actives in each:
Immature 0.1 gram (2 gram specimen) Mature 0.2 gram (8 gram specimen)
The mature fruits contain more actives, but less by active/weight ratio.
The reason you don't harvest all juveniles is that there are only so many fruit a substrate will produce. Its about time versus quality. You are better off and will actually have more actives by letting them all mature, even though the weight will be much more. Each time you pick a mushroom, you introduce a contam vector.
Besides, you will harvest a lot of aborts anyway, so it all evens out.
Edited by calicyco (09/14/07 10:43 PM)
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calicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411364 - 09/14/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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BTW, even Stamets has said its a matter of speculation that immature fruits are more potent. He believes it to be true, but doesn't have solid proof via actual lab tests showing it to be a rule and not only a possibility. It is likely, but not guaranteed. Its better to just go by the book and pick fruits when they are mature. Otherwise Stamets himself would not instruct you to pick them at maturity.
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411374 - 09/14/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i am a firm believer genetics determine potency be it adult or immature carpaphore.
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zero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411394 - 09/14/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i thought that the quote from, "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World." by Paul Stamets would really clear some things up for you guys, but just like in any other thread about this topic, the debate really goes nowhere and just causes arguements. i guess we'll just have to go our own seperate ways on this one.
-------------------- git them mushrooms Mario! git em!
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zero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411408 - 09/14/07 10:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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at what point would you call a mushroom mature? upon the veil breaking away from the cap? or do you let them go further than that?
-------------------- git them mushrooms Mario! git em!
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calicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411413 - 09/14/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its not that controversial, its old information. That book was published 11 years ago. Many people here probably own a copy. Like I said, even if it is absolutely true, you are still better off growing to maturity. Stamets states this many times in many texts. Where is the controversy? The only controversy I could see would be by folks not speaking from knowledge but from hearsay and second hand information.
You posted a clear statement from the master of shrooms. Its a good post. It still doesn't mean you should pick them while immature :-)
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calicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411415 - 09/14/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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As soon as the veil tears, before it dumps spores. It is overripe if the cap flattens out and spores drop.
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zero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: calicyco]
#7411452 - 09/14/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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this makes more sense now. i was under the impression that mature shrooms were defined as being at a state where the spores have already dropped. so, immature shrooms could be defined as being totally closed up...before the veil even starts to break away from the cap?
-------------------- git them mushrooms Mario! git em!
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xhooliganx
Munky


Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411468 - 09/14/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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the thing is they aren't even twice as potent when they're immature if it was twice as potent a baby cubensis would blow a Psilocybe azurescens out of the water with potency.
last flush I had was 5 oz dry. if I had picked them all super young i'd had maybe 1 oz. that would mean they would have to be 5 times as pottent as my fully matured mushrooms to balance it out. at that rate you would be eating .7 grams to trip like you where on an 8th of mature shrooms. that would also mean that if you're eating an 8th you're eating the equivalent of 17.5 grams of matured product. that doesn't really add up.
how large of a dose do you take of your baby mushrooms?
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xhooliganx
Munky


Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: xhooliganx]
#7411499 - 09/14/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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% of psilocybin and psilocyn in mushrooms. (these figures are from a few tested mushrooms and by all means does not mean that it is a deffinate average) P. azurenscens psilocybin 1.78 psilocin .38 P. cubensis psilocybin .63 psilocin .60
magic 2x strength baby mushroom psilocybin 1.26 psilocin 1.20
that makes baby cubes the most potent mushroom in the world. every one should stop growing pan cyans and just pick their cubes early. this is scientific proof.... oh wait no its fucking speculation maybe you should have realized that about your post before you said Quote:
this is scientific proof that if you are looking for potentcy, you should harvest while the shrooms are still in the juvenile stage.
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zero cool
I'm a bag kindaguy



Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 250
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: xhooliganx]
#7411533 - 09/14/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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xhooliganx is a flamer, you have an anger prob dude. maybe you should switch your drug of choice to prozac. you need to chill out
-------------------- git them mushrooms Mario! git em!
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calicyco
member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
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Re: Proof that juvenile shrooms are more potent than adults!!!! READ THIS!!! [Re: zero cool]
#7411543 - 09/14/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Of course they aren't 2X potent, that would be insane.
I grossly exaggerated to prove a point. Most likely, if true, juveniles would be like 1.05X not 2X as potent. EVEN IF they were 2X as potent, it would still be better to harvest mature fruits, that was my point.
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