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InvisiblePinhead
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Panaeolus Subbalteatus?
    #739976 - 07/11/02 05:02 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Found some of these at work tonight,spore print is jet black.I?m hoping they?re Panaeolus Subbalteatus..Any one?

Sorry for the crappy picture.

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OfflineNewHunter
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #739980 - 07/11/02 05:04 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

they fit the discription of pan subbs, do they have any bruising on them, i have heeard they dont always bruise blue. I think they are subs but wait for someone else to confirm it.


--------------------
RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN

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InvisiblePinhead
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: NewHunter]
    #739986 - 07/11/02 05:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

No bruising that I could see.Its hard to tell from the pic,but the caps are small..about a 1/2 inch or less across.

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OfflineOrchidman
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #740573 - 07/11/02 11:39 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

From what I read, the spore print is supposed to be brown. I have some growing wild in my yard that I think are Pan subs and the spore print is very dark brown almost black. Purple is no good. As mine age the print gets darker and darker as do the gills. Yours look pretty mature so the print could be almost black. They look good in the photo, but I'm not 100% sure so wait for a more experienced person to answer. I think you're very close.


--------------------
I've been having psilly dreams lately

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Posts: 13,774
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #740639 - 07/12/02 02:06 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Look like Panaeolina foenisecii and are not psychoactive. the stems are too long and thin to be panaaolu subbalteatus.
As also are the caps which appear to all be the same equal size.
mj

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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #740748 - 07/12/02 04:11 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: ]
    #740787 - 07/12/02 04:46 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

HI, Well they could be another panaeolus shroom if the prints are black.

foenisecii has chocolate brown to dark purple brown.

However the shrooms do not really resemble the Pn. subs.

I can tell you it is not olivaceus which has a definite umbo on it and it is not Pn. retirugis.

AS for the shroomery's analysis, several were done on Panaeolina foenisecii and reported very minute amounts of psilocine/psilocybine, however these reports are most likely due to false positives and also to mixed collections.


When many shrooms are deposited as a single species. IT has been know that they can have other shrooms inthe collection.

Many Copelandia collections have shown numerous specimesn of Panaeolus sphinctrinus and Panaeolus antillarum. This is common with most untrained collectors to find mixed collections.

Many people [pick the Copelandias from manure and do not notice that they have also collected specimens of Panaeolus sphinctreinus.
Remember one thing, P. foenisecii is a lawn mushroom nick-named the 'hay mowers" mushroom. IT does not grow in manure.

ANd P. subs are rare in lawns. Usually a few obnly.

mj

I have been meaning to talk to Thor about a little more correction in the FAQ at the shroomery. There are still some errors in it which should be corrected, however I do not currently have the time to correct them right now.

As for the Panaeolina.s read my paper at my sight on the observations of this mushrooms= and its subsequent chemical analysisis of hundreds of speciemsn, all of which where 99% negative.

mj

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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #740801 - 07/12/02 05:00 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: ]
    #741023 - 07/12/02 07:21 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

A point in mind, Mr. Mushroom,

Every year, for some reason or other, Not sure which? I like to show people several images of magic mushrooms, including those of a poisonous nature.

So, when showing these images I always show pictures of Galerina autumnalis, a most deadly species of fungi containing amatoxins similar to those found in the deadly Amanita species.

What I find interesting is that 90 percent of everyone I show those Galerina pictures too have informed me that they ate those mushrooms too and had a great time.

It also compares with all of those shroomers who claim the mushrooms turn purple.

Well purple is the color of the spore deposit on the Psilocybe mushrooms and is a charateristic of the genera Psilocybe. However, the shrooms turn and/or stain blue, and I have heard people look at bluing mushrooms and say look its turning purple.

I also find that many pickers also say that the spores are black when they are actually a chocolatee brown. Very little purple is seen on the gills.

Many pickers also say the gills turn blue., when in fact they arre the colors of the sporeprints.


ANyway,The most disturbing aspect of misidentification comes when people who have no knowledge tel lyou they think its a ..... blajh blah blah.

Anyway, Panaeolina foenisceii is so common and many people pick and think it is subbalteatus.

One good way of learning this species is too observe the unusual design and shape of the small caps from the gill side.

Usually they are not a uniformed round cap and an incurved margin is extremely rare in that particular shroom.

It will be three quarters of a compleat circle and then a straight horizontal line connecting the circle.

Check other images of this species to see the bottom of the gills so you can observe the unusual shape of the cap.

Mj

IF I find one image I will post it here for you

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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #741104 - 07/12/02 08:10 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

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OfflineStInvetroThomas
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: ]
    #741448 - 07/12/02 10:16 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Precisely why I try to never say a mushroom is ...blah... for sure, there are so many factors to consider when making an ID...sometimes it takes me a good long while...when I have the sporeprint and mushroom in front of me...and even then sometimes I can only narrow it down to genus.

As for these mushrooms, if the sporeprint is truly black than you mostly likely have an active pann of some sort. As for type, there are so many similarities between, the active ones..could be castaneifolius.

Also I have this year mostly found subbs growing in lawns, only in newly planted sod however, which has been really fertilized over top a layer of topsoil and manure...never in regular, older lawns. They were never as plentiful as castaneifolius, or olivacious, microsporius, and others. Also found growing in these super lawns were papillonacious (not many), a couple of other active panns...could not fully identify...unless they were just varieties of some others.

Many showed blueing at the base, where the mycelium met the stipe.

Found many foenescii too...and I most likely even have a few of the really buig ones mixed in with the others..but not many.

I found my best bioassay came from about 8 large mixed panns...what an experience, i have yet to duplicate as intense an experience dry...pretty sure need to ingest more...and chew them like I did the fresh ones.

Cheers



--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas

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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #741594 - 07/12/02 11:33 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

They look alot like the subbs I find around here. Especially the one in the top left corner. I'd say they are subbs..but mjshroomer disagrees, and he probably has more experience than I. I say eat 'em, if they are Panaeolinas then the worst that could happen is you don't trip..if they're subbs you're in for a wild ride!!


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

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OfflineStInvetroThomas
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: flanders53]
    #742507 - 07/12/02 06:02 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

If they are foenescii...actually the best that could happen is that you should feel happy, content and at peace with yourself. Even though they won't help you trip...they are a good source of 5htp and other chemicals related and precursors of seratonin...which make you feel good. So I would say they are a medicinal mushroom...which is also cool.

Cheers


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas

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OfflineNewHunter
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #742735 - 07/12/02 07:44 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

in the photo it just look slike the stems are fater then the panilonia(sp) this is what make sme think they are subs! take a pic with something to compare size


--------------------
RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN

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InvisiblePinhead
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: NewHunter]
    #743750 - 07/13/02 12:44 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, these are from the same patch in the lawn (Michigan)
They had a band(darker brown) arond the rim of the cap that is?nt visible now for some reason. I did send a print to Mr.Mushroom..Hopefully he can tell me more about them.

Edited by Pinhead (07/13/02 12:54 PM)

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OfflineStInvetroThomas
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #743888 - 07/13/02 02:26 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I say active panns...they certainly look like the north eastern varieties I get around here. You also said black sporeprint...should be no problems...reddish stems are also characteristics of the subbs up here...


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas

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OfflineNewHunter
help
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #744370 - 07/13/02 07:44 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

now that i see a better size comparison i think it is the panilonias(sp) i just thought the stems looks fatter!


--------------------
RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #744792 - 07/14/02 04:14 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Yeap, judging by the size they surely look like pan. foenisecii.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #744855 - 07/14/02 05:23 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #750491 - 07/16/02 08:34 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: ]
    #750563 - 07/16/02 09:00 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Can't wait to see those pics

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InvisiblePinhead
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: ]
    #751512 - 07/16/02 04:37 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Great Mr M! If it turns out that they are Pan. subb. then they are my very first active mushroom find! I just wish I would of found more of them We're suppose to get some rain latter this week..who knows?

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Invisibletranced2
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #751564 - 07/16/02 04:57 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

a fish in know has a nice field turning out Pan Caster and Pan Subs, with some P. For.. tossed in. It is an amazing field. 2 pounds per harvest. Or so this fish says.


--------------------
in trees. fighting bears.

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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Pinhead]
    #752479 - 07/17/02 03:58 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

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OfflineNewHunter
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: ]
    #752671 - 07/17/02 06:04 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

the ones in the secound picture look identicle to the Panaeolina foenisecii that i find all over in my yard. Well congrats on the find. I wish the ones in my ard were Pan. Subbs, good find


--------------------
RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN^^^RAIN

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OfflineDannyKindbuds
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: NewHunter]
    #4280041 - 06/10/05 01:03 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Where would less educated people be without you MJ.
you must sleep great a night.

(you ever hear of someone thinkin they had foenisecii and actually having subb's?)


--------------------
respect, not just consume

-Dann K. Buds

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: tranced2]
    #4282317 - 06/11/05 01:17 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

tranced 2 said,
Quote:

a fish in know has a nice field turning out Pan Caster and Pan Subs, with some P. For.. tossed in. It is an amazing field.




A little correction is in order.

Panaeolina foenisecii does not grow in any fields ever. They are a lawn mushroom only. Not a meadow or pasture-paddock species.

mj

I think that needs to be mentioned int he faq somewhere.

mj

This is an example of how urban legends spread. One reads this and thens says, "Oh yes, I found a few in a field once."

Have a shroomy day

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