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OfflineJesusChrist
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Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake?
    #7390517 - 09/10/07 01:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I searched the PAL for a thread on the recent Osama Bin Laden video. I didn't find one. I found that to be odd. I used to hang out here quite a bit and I am coming back a bit more as time allows. I remember this as a good place with diverse opinions.

Perhaps my alcohol problem hurts my searching ability and a thread exists. I suspect you guys have talked about this. If not, that in itself is interesting. I suspect you will point me to the proper thread and prove me to be an idiot. I am in many ways. That should not deter my other points.

I am somewhat of a conspiracy theorist. I think that Osama Bin Laden is dead, and that this video is not of him. I don't even buy his last video in 2004. I think he died in Tora Bora. I can't prove any of this, but I believe it.

"Experts" confirm that this is Osama. I wonder who those experts are. Could George Lucas or Steven Spielberg make a better and more believable Osama with or without a fake beard? I bet.

The Osama in the video looks like the old Osama, but he also looks different. The video is blurry, unlike other clear videos of Osama and other terrorist videos.

Check this out:Latest Bin Laden Video Is a Forgery: All References to Current Events Are Made During Video Freeze

"Osama Bin Laden's widely publicized video address to the American people has a peculiarity that casts serious doubt on its authenticity: the video freezes at about 1 minute and 58 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq."

We seem to take this stuff in stride when they tell us it is real. Even when the camera is blurry. Osama used to have a good camera, what happened to that one? Even when his beard is obviously fake and his features have changed we still gulp it up. Even when the video has been digitally manipulated and freezes while he continues talking.

That video would be thrown out of court and disallowed as evidence in the State of Ohio. I don't know about your state, but it wouldn't be allowed in mine. But we aren't talking a court of law, but the court of public opinion. Both sides have reason to support Osama being alive.

I think it is all a sham. When I search the web for people that believe the video is fake, I don't want to join that club. My friends openly mock me for my conspiracy theories.

I don't care to posit a theory on who and why made that tape. I just want to say that I don't believe it. If people could put their best arguments to why the tape is either true or false and leave links I would like this thread to be a clearinghouse on this issue.

If I am wrong I am wrong, but I don't believe it and I am not buying it. I would like to see some discussion on this.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7390559 - 09/10/07 01:55 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't buy it either. I swear Bin Laden is a tool of the Bush administration to prolong their power. It's sickening, and this is just some worthless shit too. If you're gonna fake a video do it moderately well


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7390572 - 09/10/07 02:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

their all fakes if you ask me...any fool with a cellphone can make a video...and this one is nothing short of tacky ..a video of an OBL actor parroting the liberal blogs appears immediately before congress convenes to debate iraq...do the math...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7391107 - 09/10/07 08:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think they are all fakes. I am not really scared by them either. It was like Mos Def said the other night on Bill Maher, who is scared of someone who sends "threatening" videos? If these people really hated us, then car bombs would not just be going off in Iraq, they would be going off here in the US. If these people really hated the Americans as a whole, then wouldn't Americans and not Iraqis be attacked on a daily basis? Instead, if the attacks happened the way our govt claims, they attacked the symbols of American imperialism, the WTC towers and the pentagon. That is if the "official" story holds any truth.

But like I said, people who are of real threat don't walk around sending videos with empty statements, they DO SOMETHING.

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful that we aren't getting attacked on a daily basis. And no I don't have any reason to thank our bullshit "intelligence" services. It reminds me so much of the failed red scare and the Salem witch trials, and the Inquisition. So much hype and scare to keep the population subdued and thinking alike. The commies are coming!!! Now it's the terrorists are coming!!! Really??? From where?


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7391782 - 09/10/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
I didn't buy it either. I swear Bin Laden is a tool of the Bush administration to prolong their power. It's sickening, and this is just some worthless shit too. If you're gonna fake a video do it moderately well




hes not just a tool of the bush administration.. hes an invention of the bush administration...the timinig of these videoes is very obvious in and of itself...and in the latest example..king george has resorted to having the actor talk like an american liberal rather than a terror chief...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: trippindad82]
    #7391786 - 09/10/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Laden must've gotten a awesome personal trainer, plastic surgeon, and sawed his legs off at the ankle because this version seriously looked about sixty or seventy pounds lighter and a couple inches shorter than the previous ones and his nose and facial structure seemed completely different. Big Brother needs an enemy or else the system doesn't work.


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Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7391790 - 09/10/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah haha, it really wasn't that threatening was it? Oh well, in about a year we'll fall under another terrorist attack and Bush will declare a state of emergancy and retain the presidency.


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7391824 - 09/10/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
I didn't buy it either. I swear Bin Laden is a tool of the Bush administration to prolong their power. It's sickening, and this is just some worthless shit too. If you're gonna fake a video do it moderately well




hes not just a tool of the bush administration.. hes an invention of the bush administration...the timing of these videos is very obvious in and of itself...and in the latest example..king george has resorted to having the actor talk like an American liberal rather than a terror chief...




I don't buy into their authenticity either. Does Bin laden get Grecian formula and tasty cakes sent to him in the caves of Torah bora now?

Referring to your timing set up comment, another Bin Laden tape is suppose to be released later today after the General Betrayus report.
This is all going down like a bad Hollywood B movie script with a predicable plot from the opening scene.

In other news.........

The guy whose idea the surge was basically said, "Give us more money because we are doing stuff with the money you gave us."

What else did we expect the General to say?

Shouldn't a third party be judging how well it worked and how well bench marks were met and be giving us the report?

Anyway, Ron Paul is going head to head with O'Reilly tonight about it on Fox's O'Rielly factor. Should be good! Take your blood pressure medication first.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7391848 - 09/10/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I thought the timing was to coincide with the anniversary of 9-ll.

How could you tell he was shorter? Wasn't he sitting down?

His beard was shorter and darker. However, it is not uncommon for elders to cut/dye their beards. Plus, in parts of the muslim community he is looked at as a superhuman almost mythical character, so attempts to look younger do not seem unfeasible.

It could be a fake... but don't you think entities independent of the US Government would verify the authenticity of it? (voice recognition, face analyzing software,...)


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Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


Edited by JackthaTripper (09/10/07 12:55 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7391851 - 09/10/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)



"We have confirmed the authenticity of the Bin Laden tapes."


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7391932 - 09/10/07 01:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It could really be Bin Laden. He could be directly in the employ of the Bush administration. Then for brownie points whenever things look their worst they could produce Bin Laden and go "hey! we captured him! we win the war on terror!"


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7391944 - 09/10/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

And then he'll just let us kill him?


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Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7391974 - 09/10/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Faked execution


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7391998 - 09/10/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Speaking of faked political executions. Wasn't the cell phone video of Saddam's execution hilariously bad?


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Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7392126 - 09/10/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

According to my sources Osama is now openly living in the U.S. disguised as NBA star, Scottie Pippen. He has shaved his beard and appears well rested.





The real Scottie Pippen dissapeared shortly after the 98-99 season and is now living in Pakistan.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (09/10/07 03:00 PM)


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7392144 - 09/10/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah seriously. Didn't even point at him half the time


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7392213 - 09/10/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its real, the video is real.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7392215 - 09/10/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

king george has resorted to having the actor talk like an american liberal rather than a terror chief...




It appears that the American traitor, Adam Gadahn wrote the speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Gadahn


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: zorbman]
    #7392233 - 09/10/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You guys are all nuts.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: zorbman]
    #7392251 - 09/10/07 02:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Every video released by As Sahab media is directed towards a intended audience, such as their release the Winds of Martyrdom was targetted towards those in Pakistan and was even subtitled with Urdu a common language in Pakistan.

I noticed the writing style was different in this speech and that it was strictly targetted towards an American audience, so its no doubt it was written by Adam Gadahn.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: zorbman]
    #7392254 - 09/10/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It means little to me either way if it's him or not as the larger picture just stinks.

It smells foul starting with the fact that Bin Laden was CIA and the Bin Ladens and Bush's are tight friends.

Saddam was CIA too.

What the hell is up with that, former CIA agents becoming Major enemies of the nation, whom we launch wars against?

Then, you have the press telling us they cannot release the full tape, but they can tell us that Bin Laden said anyone who doesn't convert will be killed.

Perfect way to scare Americans who won't convert to islam and get them behind the war on stealing Oil, I mean terror.

How convenient for that threat to hit the media just before General Petreus gives his report to keep the surge in Iraq going until next summer.



Based on what I have read in Middle eastern media, the surge was just a phony ploy to keep us there because, the new government is hesitating to sign an agreement to turn their oil fields over to Western Oil companies.

A report said that the U.S. is telling them that they can keep something like 12% of the oil revenues and Americans will pay for the rebuilding of the nation if they sign it.

Bogus deal for us tax payers as Bush said Iraqi Oil would pay for the war and the damage we caused before it was launched. He's such a liar.

The Iraqis are hesitant to give up their rights to the oil. This is also supposedely why there is talk of our getting in a new and more "co-opertative" government over there.

If most of the suicide bombers are Saudis and Bin laden has been hiding out in Pakistan, why are we invading Iran next?

Who can buy that nuclear weapons excuse when it was Cheney , during his time with Haliburton, who sold them the nuclear technology they have to run their refineries with.



Weather its Osama in that video or not pales in light of the Big picture that appears to be one big LIE and deception after another on America.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7392301 - 09/10/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I have to say it is curious that the tape stops in two places for long periods. (I watched the tape a short while ago).

The seated man is clearly Bin Laden but I am wondering if the video is an old one and the only current part of it is the audio. CIA voice analysts confirm it is Osama's voice.

Maybe Osama is more ill than they want to reveal and the audio was dubbed onto an earlier video? I noticed he is sitting fairly far from the camera and the video is too blurry to read his lips and synch them with the audio. (Not that I understand his language but others would.) Was this done deliberately? His beard also somewhat conceals his lips.

Very odd.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7392363 - 09/10/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JackthaTripper said:
I thought the timing was to coincide with the anniversary of 9-ll.

How could you tell he was shorter? Wasn't he sitting down?

His beard was shorter and darker. However, it is not uncommon for elders to cut/dye their beards. Plus, in parts of the muslim community he is looked at as a superhuman almost mythical character, so attempts to look younger do not seem unfeasible.




it's to my understanding, that muslims are forbidden to dye their hair black, and that it is less of an offense (to allah) to shave their hair off, than to dye it.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7392390 - 09/10/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
You guys are all nuts.




Yep. Crazier than a shit-house rat.  :crazy2:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: kotik]
    #7392420 - 09/10/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

it's to my understanding, that muslims are forbidden to dye their hair black, and that it is less of an offense (to allah) to shave their hair off, than to dye it.




Two leaders immediately come to mind who clearly are no strangers to Grecian formula: Saddam Hussein and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Mubarak, shown here, is 79 years old.



The Libyan Lunatic, Kkadafi, also clearly dies his hair.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: kotik]
    #7392424 - 09/10/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

JackthaTripper said:
I thought the timing was to coincide with the anniversary of 9-ll.

How could you tell he was shorter? Wasn't he sitting down?

His beard was shorter and darker. However, it is not uncommon for elders to cut/dye their beards. Plus, in parts of the muslim community he is looked at as a superhuman almost mythical character, so attempts to look younger do not seem unfeasible.




it's to my understanding, that muslims are forbidden to dye their hair black, and that it is less of an offense (to allah) to shave their hair off, than to dye it.




Not true.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #7392474 - 09/10/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I heard Osama bin laden is really just a half melted chucky chese robot that they just slapped a beard on and rewired to speak jibberish. I think he was the one that played the banjo.

I know it's real cuz a friend of a friend of a cousin of a friend made a flash video on youtube about it.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: kotik]
    #7392511 - 09/10/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yea it was timed for 9/11 but about a week ago, SITEinstitute got a hold of the video, a shit ton of islamists websites got bombed and even Siteinstitute was bombed for 2 hours. Many arab leaders die their hair to look more stronger or younger and to show to the mujahadeen that he is still alive and kicking.

In Salafism Islam in his position it would be more disgraceful to not be martyred and to die of natural causes. Osama will be around and the video is indeed real, the audio is real as well, however regarding the image of Osama is of dubious nature, I personally believe he will release another video soon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7393296 - 09/10/07 07:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Bush will declare a state of emergancy and retain the presidency.





I got $1,000 to your $100. Well?


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7393356 - 09/10/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

We'll have to see. But I'll take you up on that. On the good D****** name


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7394036 - 09/10/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Can I get in on some of that action? I'll even go zap one better -- I'll give you $1100 to your $100. Or better yet, $11,000 to your $1,000.



Phred


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Phred]
    #7394073 - 09/10/07 09:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

haha, maybe. I'd rather bet you 100 to if I win you join my revolutionary army


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7395421 - 09/11/07 07:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Yeah haha, it really wasn't that threatening was it? Oh well, in about a year we'll fall under another terrorist attack and Bush will declare a state of emergancy and retain the presidency.




See the following article: Unfortunately, taking this kind of approach actually seems to stop terrorism. Fujimori basically did this in Peru, a country where 35,000 people died in the 90's from terrorist attacks (a number which makes our problems laughable) and virtually eliminated communist terrorism in 10 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Fujimori

Maybe Bush is using this guy as a model for his administration.


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7395538 - 09/11/07 08:55 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Yeah haha, it really wasn't that threatening was it? Oh well, in about a year we'll fall under another terrorist attack and Bush will declare a state of emergancy and retain the presidency.




See the following article: Unfortunately, taking this kind of approach actually seems to stop terrorism. Fujimori basically did this in Peru, a country where 35,000 people died in the 90's from terrorist attacks (a number which makes our problems laughable) and virtually eliminated communist terrorism in 10 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Fujimori

Maybe Bush is using this guy as a model for his administration.




Yeah, but it only works to stop terrorism in you own country. Is he also trying to be like saddam? He also had very few terrorist activities because he was a totalitarian ruler as well. The US can't be out policing the world, that is exactly the cause of the current terrorist hatred towards the US.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7395543 - 09/11/07 09:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

How convenient for that threat to hit the media just before General Petreus gives his report to keep the surge in Iraq going until next summer.




Although I agree with everything you said, that was not Petreus' report. That report was written for him by members of the bush administration. The military works as a hierarchy and the orders come from the top down and as Bush is unfortunately Commander in Chief, that poor general is nothing more than Bush's scapegoat.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7395544 - 09/11/07 09:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Didn't read all the comments, but my way of thinking is this: Whether or not he's real in those videos isn't really important.

The fact is we know there are radical islamists that want to hurt Americans and other folks. Whether our proposed remedies are worth the cost to our freedoms, and whether they are effective, is the argument.

As you were far more likely to die of a flu in 2001 in America, than to have died in the wtc, I think our priorities are a little askew. We'll pay for all these paramillitary groups to invade our privacy and conduct dubious exercises, but you can't get a flu shot if you can't come up with the cash. I'm not saying you deserve a flu shot, but then again, I don't think you should have your money taken from you to address a threat that is largely psychological.
\
The threat to the economy from terrorism is real, but that doesn't mean its a blank check for the police and military. I've never been assaulted or harrased by a terrorist, but I have had these experiences with the police. The later is a far greater threat to myself, then, than the former- imo.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: trippindad82]
    #7395551 - 09/11/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

trippindad82 said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Yeah haha, it really wasn't that threatening was it? Oh well, in about a year we'll fall under another terrorist attack and Bush will declare a state of emergancy and retain the presidency.




See the following article: Unfortunately, taking this kind of approach actually seems to stop terrorism. Fujimori basically did this in Peru, a country where 35,000 people died in the 90's from terrorist attacks (a number which makes our problems laughable) and virtually eliminated communist terrorism in 10 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Fujimori

Maybe Bush is using this guy as a model for his administration.




Yeah, but it only works to stop terrorism in you own country. Is he also trying to be like saddam? He also had very few terrorist activities because he was a totalitarian ruler as well. The US can't be out policing the world, that is exactly the cause of the current terrorist hatred towards the US.




No doubt. Yea there was a difference. I guess you can't compare INTERNALLY GROWN COMMIES to internal ppl who were planted.

Fujimori's reign was still an interesting study in facism... something very recent and very nearby.

The saga is still going on right now. Interpol goofed and he ended up in Chile under the rader. He's caught him in Chile right now... and Chile and Peru hate each other so shit's goin downnnn :P


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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7419684 - 09/17/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

In these days where anyone can buy a killer video-editing program for a few hundred bucks, seeing is NOT believing. Here's a hilarious youtube video (sorry, I don't know how to embed it) showing just how easy it really is. Notice how this video is even more detailed than the one released -- it's in much tighter closeup so it's easier to detect any trickery, and the breaks in the video feed are fewer and of much shorter duration than in the released "bin Laden" video. Yet it's still pretty damned convincing if you ignore the obvious implausibility of bin Laden speaking such flawless English.

Check it out -- it's well worth the two minutes it will take to watch it.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=27077_On_the_Coattails_of_a_Dead_Man&only



Phred


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Phred]
    #7419929 - 09/17/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

At the same time, if you apply science rather than instinct to the analysis, is or is not becomes very conclusive. Ratio of spacing between various points on the face cannot be easily faked. Certainly, a government with unlimited budget could get close, but when put under the microscope, it would still be a fairly obvious fake. Voice prints are another thing, that as far as I know, cannot yet be faked and are as unique as a fingerprint, even when the person tries to disguise their voice.

The lab part of my DSP class (graduate level EE) was dedicated to picture analysis (fake UFO pictures to be specific). It is amazing the details that you can bring out in a picture with a little bit of filtering or transforming data from one domain into another. Hidden wires shine as bright as sunlight in a mirror, aliasing effects stand out like glitter on black cloth, etc.

I'm not making a claim one way or another towards the released video(s), only saying that in my experience it is very easy to detect fakes produced by armatures.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Seuss]
    #7423339 - 09/18/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That video WAS funny Phred!


Seuss, I don't think that anyone is debating the ability for experts to be able to authenticate a video tape.

I think the problem for many is the ability to trust the source that says it is authentic, especially considering the timing of its release the day before the Peterus report, meant to garner more support for staying the course in Iraq.

Anyone catch that news clip about his superior Admiral Fallon calling him an " ass kissing little chicken shit" for it?


http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39235


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Seuss]
    #7430364 - 09/19/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
At the same time, if you apply science rather than instinct to the analysis, is or is not becomes very conclusive. Ratio of spacing between various points on the face cannot be easily faked. Certainly, a government with unlimited budget could get close, but when put under the microscope, it would still be a fairly obvious fake. Voice prints are another thing, that as far as I know, cannot yet be faked and are as unique as a fingerprint, even when the person tries to disguise their voice.

The lab part of my DSP class (graduate level EE) was dedicated to picture analysis (fake UFO pictures to be specific). It is amazing the details that you can bring out in a picture with a little bit of filtering or transforming data from one domain into another. Hidden wires shine as bright as sunlight in a mirror, aliasing effects stand out like glitter on black cloth, etc.

I'm not making a claim one way or another towards the released video(s), only saying that in my experience it is very easy to detect fakes produced by armatures.




If it is easy to detect fakes, why aren't you making a claim one way or the other. I would think that some fakes are indeed easy to detect.

As Alive as Elvis

Could you give me your honest opinion on what you think of this guys opinion?


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7430401 - 09/19/07 10:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
That video WAS funny Phred!


Seuss, I don't think that anyone is debating the ability for experts to be able to authenticate a video tape.






You are wrong. I am debating that. I question our ability to authenticate a video tape.

I also concur with Phred. Seeing is not believing in the digital age. This tape would be thrown out of court as evidence in my state. I wonder why we suck it up so sweetly.

I am not the only person who believes this way. I do want to add that I don't want to be grouped with every other person who thinks it is a fake. I don't think the US Government is doing it, or that it is some Rovian plot.

I think that it is a fake. I question the people that say it is real. I would like to see more investigation and questioning on this matter. We just seem to take it in stride.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7431239 - 09/20/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> If it is easy to detect fakes, why aren't you making a claim one way or the other.

Because I am not an expert, nor do I have the data needed to make a determination one way or another. I know my limits.

> You are wrong.

Proof would be nice...

> Seeing is not believing in the digital age.

Re-read what I posted. Did I claim that "by looking at a video you can tell if it is fake". No. I said "if you apply science rather than instinct to the analysis" it is easy to tell if something has been faked or not.

For example, it doesn't matter how much makeup or anything else you add, you cannot change the distance between a person's pupils. You can "cut & paste" on a frame by frame basis to move the eyes apart, but this creates artifacts with shadows. So now you have to go back and frame by frame fix up any shadows cast by facial features that have been moved. But this causes aliasing effects. Now you have to go back and blur/smooth frame by frame the aliasing effects. But this cases discontinuities in the frequency domain (which cannot be seen without applying a mathematical function to the image), etc, etc, etc.

So please, tell me again, how am I wrong...


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Seuss]
    #7434677 - 09/20/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I wasn't saying that "you" are wrong. I was saying that gettinjiggywithit was wrong.

He stated that "I don't think that anyone is debating the ability for experts to be able to authenticate a video tape."

I qualify as anyone, so he is wrong. I am debating and disputing that this tape is real. I don't happen to believe that was Osama, and that is exactly what I am saying. I also freely admit that I have no proof or expertise.

What I ask of you is to give me your gut reaction. Is it real or is it fake, what do you think?

I think that tape is fake. That belief is not popular. And I don't even tend to agree with the other people that "agree" with me, because I don't think it is a Rovian Bush plot. I think that he is dead and they want to make it look like he is alive.

I have no beef with you my friend.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7434741 - 09/20/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> What I ask of you is to give me your gut reaction. Is it real or is it fake, what do you think?

As a non-expert, the face does not appear to be the same as known pictures of bin Laden. The nose is the largest feature that looks different, as bin Laden's nose is pointed and slopes downward where the nose in the picture is blunt and has more of an upwards slope. The shape/slant of the eyes also appear to be different. However this is not the "scientific analysis" that I was talking about, but rather a guess on my part.


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