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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Seuss]
    #7430364 - 09/19/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
At the same time, if you apply science rather than instinct to the analysis, is or is not becomes very conclusive. Ratio of spacing between various points on the face cannot be easily faked. Certainly, a government with unlimited budget could get close, but when put under the microscope, it would still be a fairly obvious fake. Voice prints are another thing, that as far as I know, cannot yet be faked and are as unique as a fingerprint, even when the person tries to disguise their voice.

The lab part of my DSP class (graduate level EE) was dedicated to picture analysis (fake UFO pictures to be specific). It is amazing the details that you can bring out in a picture with a little bit of filtering or transforming data from one domain into another. Hidden wires shine as bright as sunlight in a mirror, aliasing effects stand out like glitter on black cloth, etc.

I'm not making a claim one way or another towards the released video(s), only saying that in my experience it is very easy to detect fakes produced by armatures.




If it is easy to detect fakes, why aren't you making a claim one way or the other. I would think that some fakes are indeed easy to detect.

As Alive as Elvis

Could you give me your honest opinion on what you think of this guys opinion?


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7430401 - 09/19/07 10:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
That video WAS funny Phred!


Seuss, I don't think that anyone is debating the ability for experts to be able to authenticate a video tape.






You are wrong. I am debating that. I question our ability to authenticate a video tape.

I also concur with Phred. Seeing is not believing in the digital age. This tape would be thrown out of court as evidence in my state. I wonder why we suck it up so sweetly.

I am not the only person who believes this way. I do want to add that I don't want to be grouped with every other person who thinks it is a fake. I don't think the US Government is doing it, or that it is some Rovian plot.

I think that it is a fake. I question the people that say it is real. I would like to see more investigation and questioning on this matter. We just seem to take it in stride.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7431239 - 09/20/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> If it is easy to detect fakes, why aren't you making a claim one way or the other.

Because I am not an expert, nor do I have the data needed to make a determination one way or another. I know my limits.

> You are wrong.

Proof would be nice...

> Seeing is not believing in the digital age.

Re-read what I posted. Did I claim that "by looking at a video you can tell if it is fake". No. I said "if you apply science rather than instinct to the analysis" it is easy to tell if something has been faked or not.

For example, it doesn't matter how much makeup or anything else you add, you cannot change the distance between a person's pupils. You can "cut & paste" on a frame by frame basis to move the eyes apart, but this creates artifacts with shadows. So now you have to go back and frame by frame fix up any shadows cast by facial features that have been moved. But this causes aliasing effects. Now you have to go back and blur/smooth frame by frame the aliasing effects. But this cases discontinuities in the frequency domain (which cannot be seen without applying a mathematical function to the image), etc, etc, etc.

So please, tell me again, how am I wrong...


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: Seuss]
    #7434677 - 09/20/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I wasn't saying that "you" are wrong. I was saying that gettinjiggywithit was wrong.

He stated that "I don't think that anyone is debating the ability for experts to be able to authenticate a video tape."

I qualify as anyone, so he is wrong. I am debating and disputing that this tape is real. I don't happen to believe that was Osama, and that is exactly what I am saying. I also freely admit that I have no proof or expertise.

What I ask of you is to give me your gut reaction. Is it real or is it fake, what do you think?

I think that tape is fake. That belief is not popular. And I don't even tend to agree with the other people that "agree" with me, because I don't think it is a Rovian Bush plot. I think that he is dead and they want to make it look like he is alive.

I have no beef with you my friend.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Is that really Osama Bin Laden or a fake? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #7434741 - 09/20/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> What I ask of you is to give me your gut reaction. Is it real or is it fake, what do you think?

As a non-expert, the face does not appear to be the same as known pictures of bin Laden. The nose is the largest feature that looks different, as bin Laden's nose is pointed and slopes downward where the nose in the picture is blunt and has more of an upwards slope. The shape/slant of the eyes also appear to be different. However this is not the "scientific analysis" that I was talking about, but rather a guess on my part.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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