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BrAiN
Art Fag

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To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism
#7389302 - 09/09/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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A question for all those AGAINST paying a little extra in taxes for UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, to all your republicans who think socialism is evil and lazy: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgetting to turn your oven off and having taxpayers pay your $50,000 in services in perfectly fine as long as the cost is YOUR OWN FAULT.... right? I mean.... I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.
But getting cancer by accident which ISN'T YOUR FAULT and having taxpayers pay your $50,000 bill must mean you're a socialist, communist weasel who hates America, right?
That makes perfect sense.
Fucking asshole hypocrates.
-> BrAiN -> registered libertarian
* socialism can be a great tool for american when helping fellow citizens in time of need.
* socialism is wrong when it is used to help welfare queens crank out babies just to get another check to pay the bills
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Do you really think health care taxes would cost any more than the 300 dollars a month in health insurance you pay NOW?
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Don't you think that insuring a young, poor person now so they can get preventative care for cancer for $5,000 will cost you LESS in premiums than waiting until that poor person finally can AFFORD care than waiting until that person has a descent job at the age of 50, and having your premiums pay for all his $50,000 a year health care coverage now that he's insured by YOUR company?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7389389 - 09/09/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.
That is because a fire department serves me when I have a problem. My tax money well spent on something that I may need. Please, pray tell, how does my tax money paying for your health care benefit me?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7389459 - 09/09/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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>That is because a fire department serves me when I have a problem. My tax money well spent on something that I may need.
I've never used the fire department. How, pray tell, does me blowing a bunch of tax money on the fire department to pay for putting our a fire caused by your carelessness benefit ME?
Or... Are you saying you'll never need anything health related? If so... you must be the luckist person on the planet.
Can I ask you a question, being such a healthy person? For someone that never uses any kind of health services, pleast tell me.... What's it like to have never gone to the doctor, ever? huh? Must be nice. Do you have some kind of magic blood or did you manage to find the holy fountain of youth which causes you never, ever to get sick? Or maybe you happen to sell weed to your guardian angel so he/she takes extra care of you so you're never in danger of getting slammed by a hit-and-run, never in danger of getting a diseases.
Would you be so kind as to donate some of your magical blood to science so the rest of us can benefit from it?
I don't know about you, but I'm far more likely to need health care than fire department services. If you happen to need the fire services more often than health services than I think you might have a gas leak that you haven't found yet. Either that or you're just a pyromaniac.
Stop leeching off my tax money to pay for your bonfire accidents, you socialist mooch. Next time you call the fire department, I'm sending you a bill for sucking up my hard earned tax dollars.
Edited by BrAiN (09/09/07 07:44 PM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7389475 - 09/09/07 07:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm sure he has health problems at times, but has his own private insurance to cover it. There is no fall-back like this for house fires, so your comparison doesn't work.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Redstorm]
#7389485 - 09/09/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: I'm sure he has health problems at times, but has his own private insurance to cover it. There is no fall-back like this for house fires, so your comparison doesn't work.
If he has a house fire.. he's using thousands of tax payer dollars in labor having a half dozen professionals tending to his needs, using public plumbing systems, utilizing thousands of dollars in equipment and vehicles that tax payers are flipping the bill for, fire house buildings and leases.. and he doesn't receive a single bill..
Shit I get charged 30 bucks a month for just taking a shower everyday. Someone leaves a cigarette unattended and firefighters use 100 times more water in 10 minutes than I pay for in a whole month and that moron doesn't pay a dime. How does that make any more sense than paying for someone else's health problems?
The second he gets injured in his house fire and the second he gets into that ambulance.. then magically, the rest of the bill gets sent to him. What is it so magical about that single moment where he gets rushed OUT of his burning house (for free) and the moment a few seconds later he gets stuck in an ambulance that they start keeping track of the bills?
I mean. Firetruck.. ambulance. Maybe the government just decides to send bills outs for public vehicles used that start with the letters A-E. Ambulance.. yup.. that's a bill.. Firetruck.. F-Z... hmmm.. nope.. no bill for that.
A mean hell/. You leave your burner on and a firefighter risks his OWN life to save yours and DIES in the process costing 10's of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money for the funeral and 500,000 dollars in taxpayer money in benefits for the firefighter's familly.. shoot.. lets make ALL the taxpayers flip the bill for that, right? .. Right? NOPE? Hmm... weird... I don't hear people complaining about that.
If you think you should only have to pay for your own health costs... I'm fine with that. Like I said. I'm libertarian. I like small government. But I don't understand why people bitch and whine about why they should have to shell out a few extra bucks per month in health coverage in taxes when they don't complain about paying all this money for other public socialist services like firefighters and police that they never even use. It's just hypocritical. Why are taxpayers covering services that are used when someone is a total idiot and burns down their own apartment?
Part of me is playing devils advocate here just to make a point about the hypocracy of how our tax dollars are divied up. People get so riled up about paying probably the same they would in health insurance per month to cover what could be a FREE UNIVERSAL health care system, and no one even bothers to bitch and complain about wasting their tax dollars on services that are used up by other people's carelessness.
Edited by BrAiN (09/09/07 07:59 PM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7389522 - 09/09/07 08:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I essentially agree with you. I think that one should have to pay for their own house fires or have homeowner's insurance cover the cost.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Redstorm]
#7389537 - 09/09/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not saying that we need a FEDERAL socialist health care system. I'm libertarian afterall. I just think universal health care deserves a chance. As a libertarian, I think federal laws should be repealed for rea and the states should have the right to tackle their own issues like gay marriage, health care, abortion, etc and let citizens decide which laws they agree to and pick which states are better for them.
We'll never really know if Universal Health care will work until we try it... but then if it DOESNT work then we've wasted all this money.. so it would be nice if just ONE state gave it a shot... as a guinea pig. If it works, others could use it as an example.
At least... for economic reasons it should be given a shot if not for humanitarian. There is a reason that people are required in almost all states to have car insurance. It's not that the gov't doesn't want to see uninsured people to be in debt for the rest of their lives. The gov't doesn't give a fuck. The only reason they require it is because it keeps insurance rates down for those who ARE insured. If everyone gets covered in health when they're young, they pay less in prevention now than they will in dealing with a problem later which saves us ALL money. Massachussets at least as thought about this idea and started to require everyone to have health insurance.. not because they give a fuck about any of the poor people, but because it will KEEP HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS LOW!
At least consider the economic benefits.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Redstorm]
#7389567 - 09/09/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: I essentially agree with you. I think that one should have to pay for their own house fires or have homeowner's insurance cover the cost.
Thank you. Personally I believe in a system where we all look our for each other will work better. But it's just a theory. We have oour differences. But it I can just convince people to at least see the hypocracy of arguments against health care, then I'm happy.
I have a hard core conservative buddy who thinks corporations should have the right to discriminate based on race, religion, and enthnicity... and part of me agrees with him just because you can't FORCE PEOPLE to give a shit about others. If you do, your gov't is just as bad as a facist system. But again I believe that even though we have the right to say "FUCK OFF" to people, a system where we all look after each other and a system where we STICK to that.. will ultimately benefit the greater good.
I'm a libertarian by registration, by common sense... but an Anarchist at heart, although I know where anarchism will never work.
But like I said... also at least consider the economic benefits of a health care system. We can at least make people who go to the hospital for stupid shit like blowing off their hands with fireworks pay their own bills, and maybe just cover people who have health problems that aren't their own fault... and if it costs more... offset the costs by billing idiots that burn their own houses down by dropping a cigarrette on the carpet instead of letting them get all their firefighting services totally free.
I'm a slightly socialist libertarian..., because I believe in the true MEANING of socialism... doing things for the GOOD of SOCIETY. We live in a spoiled society where people think they can have 5,000 kids just to get an extra welfare check. I hate welfare queens, and people who think we should pay taxpayer money on stupid social problems that encourage people to be lazy. But I believe in social systems like universal health care ( to an extent), and divying up tax money for schools evenly instead of giving all the money to schools in rich districts.... for if we're all born equal.. we should all get equal chances as minors... but the second we turn 18... we're responsible for our own decisions. If you have 5,000 kids by the time you're 22 years old... keep some sort of welfare system but give food and supplies to the kids directly instead of giving welfare checks to idiotic parents who've already proven themselves irresponsible.
A social system with a focus on INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY is what this country needs.... We've taken a good idea and caused EVERYONE to be apathetic. and spoiled.. DEPENDANT on the government instead of taking responsibility for their own lack of motication...
and that has caused hard working conservatives who normally would have half a heart... to want to guard their pockets... completely polarizing the nation. Liberals become more lazy and assume the rich are just lucky and should flip their bills.. and conservatives are becoming more penny pinching, thinking that extra taxes will ONLY go towards benefiting those lazier than them who never got off their asses and tried to earn their own money. Both sides are generalizing which ends up causing more hate and the system gets more fucked
and then... when it gets bad enough.. the unity we once had.. were we would stop what we're doing and help others.. where we normall would give a few dollars to help someone in need.. turns into the poor just getting pissed and lethargic and the rich not giving up anything. The unity we once had is no more and that's when this nation will turn to shambles.
A universal health care system, I belive, would be a good start a fixing this system.
But that's just me.
Edited by BrAiN (09/09/07 08:24 PM)
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wilshire
free radical


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7389712 - 09/09/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.
quite a number of libertarians believe that fire fighting should not be a government service. i do.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7389722 - 09/09/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.
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wilshire
free radical


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: DieCommie]
#7389812 - 09/09/07 09:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.
the government could compel building owners to enroll in a private fire fighting service like they do with car owners and auto liability insurance.
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Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: wilshire]
#7390180 - 09/09/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quite a number of libertarians believe that fire fighting should not be a government service. i do.
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I don't.
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.
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Maybe cancer doesn't but unchecked plagues do. Even with cancer certainly we reduce labor work hours which can have a dramatic effect on work place productivity.
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the government could compel building owners to enroll in a private fire fighting service like they do with car owners and auto liability insurance.
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We could put an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, but wouldn't it be better to put a fence at the top? Maybe instead of relying on a system that only pays for medical bills once a person is sick or for the house once it has burned down, we should encourage a system where people are more able to take preventative measures before calamity happens. In a single payer health care system more people would be able to see doctors on a regular basis, get flu shots, stop smoking services, exc which would reduce the very high expense of hospital visits let alone emergency care services.
I think it is worth a shot esp. considering our current alliterative.
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7390262 - 09/09/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Who said that anyone not willing to pay for another's self neglect and abuse, is also not willing to pay for their own Fire department services if EVER, required?
That would be fine with me. 
How many Christmas's do people have to watch peoples homes burn down, because of dried out live trees, before people stop using live x-mas trees? Same with fires started by smoking in the house, and old crappy electrical wiring?
Why can't property owners insurance cover the FD's costs just like health insurance covers the doctors cost? It doesn;t have to come from out of taxxes. Some small towns in America still have volunteer fire departments that self fund.
Neglect and carelessness, like with house fires, goes the same in most cases for personal health problems.
I think the government taxxes should fully, pay for war veterans care. I also think the U.S. should only engage in war as a means of defending OUR borders only.
I do feel for children whose health suffers because of parents who don't have a clue (shouldn't be having children, they can not afford health care insurance for and or, expose them to so much crap that is bad for their health). Not fair to the kids. Thats where children's charities come into play and I do regularly donate to children's hospitals.
Old peoples problems? Lets see,....... they had 50 plus years to get their act together, mentally, emotionally, physically and financially. Why should I pay for their irresponsibility to set themselves up adequately for their later years? Mother nature takes people out with age naturally anyway as it was meant to be.
What if some guy blew his life away on alcohol and gambling? Why should I cover the cost of his liver transplant? I say, let him go to the great beyond already.
How many old people are kept breathing at a HIGH cost, ( thousands a month) whose minds have been all but lost, and who do nothing but collect bed sores?
Whatever happened to their healthy and able children and grandchildren taking care of them in their old age? Could be because family values have gone down the toilet?
Then you have emergency health care. What percent of it comes from people making a personal choice to engage in reckless activities or another's to create a case of negligence. Why should I pay for the poor choices of others when I take greater care in my own choice making?
Here's a sad factoid. Though humans in general are living longer, the U.S. comes in 47th place for longevity.
Our government LOVES to approve the polluting of our air, water, and food with lethal toxins. Americans do nothing enough about it and consume most of the crap causing it. Americans love their mental negativity, emotional dramas and suffering, and junk food in all it's forms. They love to couch potato it and think being fat and lazy is the American dream. They love their fast passed, stressed out, rat race, get no sleep working and partying to death, processed foods eating lifestyles.
I have NO desire to sponsor the consequences of those poor choices others make and then claim victim of. As far as I am concerned, no one owes me a thing for making poor and or uneducated choices.
Before we can become a nation where everyone is looking out for each others health, we are going to have to start with getting rid of everything known to collectively ruin it for each other to wipe the slate fair and clean.
The FDA sure isn't doing it. I am still floored over the known hazardous poisons they approve for our foods and drinks. Same goes with the environmental protection agency. What a joke they are.
If we could pull that off, then we have to start taking personal responsibility as individuals living a way of preventative health care and maintenance.
We have become a society that believes shit happens to us and we fix it synthetic drugs and scapels after wards. There is a cause for every effect in this Universe. Not only is understanding cause and effect key, if everyone did, a health crisis would be experienced and known as a gift of learning/healing.
You want someone to look out for your health? I will recommend 3 books for you to take to mind heart and ACTION. I'd love to direct you to teachings on how not to get diseased and deathly il in the first place and or what to do if you do, to heal yourself without a 6 figure medical bill.
If you choose to blow off the wisdom of these books, then, what you meant to say was, you just want to live in ignorance, carelessly and abusively and have strangers cover the cost of the consequences, not "we should look out for each other", in anyway that makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
If you blow them off, you best start saving your money and get insurance then, because, our lifestyle in the U.S., along with food, water and air supplies are becoming more deadly toxic by the minute, extra thanks to the CFR member you probably plan on voting for.
After reading all 3 of them, you may understand my position on this issue regarding the importance of individuals ability to take personal responsibility for their general well being. It's not that I am not a compassionate human being with my stance here. When in a health crisis, the healing and understanding can only begin when we are forced to understand the underlying cause.
Running to a doctor or surgeon who gives you drugs to mask problems and or cuts body parts away, will not help anyone remedy the actual cause of the disease or illness. Further, the drugs and body mutilation will only serve to further weaken the bodies natural healing abilities and immunities.
Much cheaper then your first co-pay or socilaized health care tax-
The TAO of DETOX, The Secrets of Yang-Sheng Dao by Daniel Ried
Holy Bajesus the things I learned that I can't believe I lived for 39 years without knowing most of it and wishing I did. Our educational system, the Attorney General, and FDA ?EPA really blow HARD. Anyone with cancer needs to read this book.
HEAL YOUR BODY, The Mental Causes for Physical Illness and the Metaphysical way to Overcome Them by Louise L. Hay
Brilliant insight into the mind body connection!
and what helps bridge the two above is
Ageless Body Timeless Mind by Deepak Chopra
He gives a good overview of the holistic body and how it all works together.
Working with these books will keep you on the path of prevention quite well indeed.
FYI, I am currently registered with the Green party, yet am switching this once to vote for a republican, RON PAUL, because he is the first real hope I have at some miracle getting him in, and his being the start of un-fucking, as YTHAN put it, all thats wrong with America.
I listen to everything Paul has to say and this guy , like a holistic practioner, sees and knows the underlying cause of all the major problems in the U.S. and he has the cure for it all at the causative level.
The rest of these guys have band aides, and more feel good drugs that just mask the underlying causes and create more, elsewhere within the holistic system, which will create new il effects for America and the globe later up the road.
Why don't those who want socialized health care, come up with an elective opt in choice plan?. Simple enough for the government to act like your insurance carrier with your self elected tax increases to cover the rip off costs.
Why anyone expects a free ride off of hard working Americans is beyond me. Thats what charity is for and charities and donaters to them are out there.
What gives anyone the right to expect that though?
Evolution/nature/God, whatever your choice of creator, never guaranteed any of us the rights to a full and healthy life. Entropy, disease, disorder and chaos is found all over the natural world. Why and How people expect other people to pay for and guarantee them their good health is beyond me.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7390365 - 09/10/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.
That is because a fire department serves me when I have a problem. My tax money well spent on something that I may need. Please, pray tell, how does my tax money paying for your health care benefit me?
perhaps he works at the fire department that serves you when you have a problem?
your tax moneys
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: California]
#7390777 - 09/10/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> perhaps he works at the fire department that serves you when you have a problem?
So I should pay for other people's health care on the off chance that I may need their services some day? Hmmm... I think other people should pay off my house loan because everybody deserves a place to live.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: DieCommie]
#7390820 - 09/10/07 05:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.
Cancer is just one easy example I used because it's a very long term, expensive problem.
Untreated COMMUNICABLE diseases put everyone at risk.
And from an econoomic standpoint.. wouldn't it be cheaper to give someone preventative care for a short amount of time when they're younger than to spend thousands of dollars a year on treating someone for the rest of their life when that diseases you try to prevent becomes irreversible?
Edited by BrAiN (09/10/07 05:36 AM)
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7390829 - 09/10/07 05:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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The whole argument "Universal health care is wrong because.. why should I have to pay for other people?" Is flawed because even if you HAVE INSURANCE.. you those who DON'T NEED the service are ALREADY paying for those who do.
If everyone out there throws in 100 bucks a month for health insurance, that's 1200 a year. If you're healthy, you're not going to use 1200 dollars in health care. If you're sick, you'll use 10,000 dollars in health care. So even those who ARE insured, if you're healthy you're getting ripped off by paying more than you're putting in and if you're sick you're using way more than you've put in.
EVEN IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE you're paying for other people. How is it any different if we have a uniervsal health care system covered in taxes? How much more do you think you'd be paying than you already chip in now. Think about it. You pay 50 bucks a pay period. That's 100 a month. You company flips half the bill so they're dishing out 100 bucks as well that they COULD have paid you in salary so you're really paying 200 bucks a month
Quote:
Seuss said: So I should pay for other people's health care on the off chance that I may need their services some day? Hmmm... I think other people should pay off my house loan because everybody deserves a place to live.
If that's what you think is fair then... that if you burn down your house this year and I don't burn down my house.... then YOU should refund to ME all the tax money that I put in that went to fire services
ANd the tax loan comparison is flawed. I'm not talking about COMMUNISISM where everyone gets the same amount of shit no matter how hard you work. If you make 100 grand a year you work hard and deserve to live in a nicer place than someone who works at mccy d's for 10 grand a year. If you make 100 grand a year does that mean you deserve to have better cancer treatment than someone who works at mcdonald's ? Why? When did making more money mean you're a better human being than someone else?
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7390835 - 09/10/07 05:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
So I should pay for other people's health care on the off chance that I may need their services some day? Hmmm... I think other people should pay off my house loan because everybody deserves a place to live.
That's the ENTIRE REASON you pay for health insurance anyways! You pay for health insurance because the chance that you may need to utilize expensive health services one day.. services that are going to cost you more than you're putting in.
By your logic, if you end up paying insurance and utilizing more in dollar amount than you put in, that means your're just another BUM that's leeching off of the system.
I think the whole problem people have with health insurance being covered by gov't/taxes is that those who are POOR will be sucking more out of the system causing those who make more money like us (who are well off enough to have enough $ to pay for luxuries like a computer and internet access) will end up paying more. If this isn't the case and you end up paying the same amount you normally would for health insurance, then what's the problem? Wouldn't it be nice to know that if even though you work hard and still lost your job that you'd still be covered.
I consider myself a pretty hard worker and a descent citizen. A few years ago I got a job and when I quit the old job there was a one month gap in my health care. This wasn't because I was lazy and had no job.. it was a technical problem with the system. I was a hard worker and I kept myself employed everyday, but for administrative reasons I didn't have coverage for a month. Well guess what... one day after my coverage expired at the old company I broke my nose. Because I was between jobs at the time I was a little strapped for cash and a single trip to the emergency room to keep myself from bleeding to death cost me 900 dollars! All because, even though I did what I was supposed to do as an American.. work hard and keep myself employed, there were a few days lapse where I got screwed.
No one is immune to it. There will come a day always when hard working people aren't insured. You'll change jobs, lose your jobs, get screwed by your insurance company when they don't want to pay for something that you need just so they can save some money even when you ARE insured. Wouldn't it be nice to pay maybe a few extra dollars in taxes to know you NEVER had to worry about unexpected circumstances like these?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7390869 - 09/10/07 06:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Wouldn't it be nice to pay maybe a few extra dollars in taxes to know you NEVER had to worry about unexpected circumstances like these?
Kind of like a pay maybe a few extra dollars in taxes to know that I will NEVER have to worry about money when I retire because social security will take care of me? Fantasy land must be nice...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7391057 - 09/10/07 08:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll admit that soc security is going bankrupt, but you don't have to wait until you're old to benefit from it... It's for disabilities too. If you chopped your arm off and couldn't work right now, you'd start collecting benefits.
It IS one example of a fucked up gov't run social program, I'll grant you that. There are plenty of social programs we pay taxes for that work, though... 911 and police, firefighting services, etc. A private social security program MIGHT work, but it MIGHT not. Who knows. I'm not saying that we should let the gov't take over the ENTIRE health care system. Let private companies run the health services and compete for gov't tax money. That way you still get the benefits you'd get with a capitalist system (competition makes better advances in technology and medical offices that do a shitty job of managing the money don't get their contracts renewed and lose out to others) but the money would come from taxes.
And you never responded to my earlier rebuttal. If you get injured or get cancer and your insurance gives you a quarter million dollars in health services.... that money is coming from everyone else's premiums,THEN how are YOU not being the person you're complaing about? How are YOU not then being the the person that everyone else is paying for?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7391097 - 09/10/07 08:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you get injured or get cancer and your insurance gives you a quarter million dollars in health services.... that money is coming from everyone else's premiums,THEN how are YOU not being the person you're complaing about? How are YOU not then being the the person that everyone else is paying for?
Imagine a lottery where you can pay $1 a week and have a chance to win a million dollars every week. Now a group of people come along and ask to be allowed to win the million, but they don't want to pay the $1 a week because "insert excuse here". Now you still have to pay your $1 per week for a chance to win, but the chances of you winning are much less because of all the people that play that aren't paying.
> How are YOU not then being the the person that everyone else is paying for?
Because I pay into the "cause" compared to everybody else that gets it for free. That is the difference.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7391763 - 09/10/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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>Because I pay into the "cause" compared to everybody else that gets it for free.
That's a valid complaint. In fact... that's one of the only complaints I have against illegal immigration. Illegals use are hospital services. I wouldn't care so much about it if they actually paid taxes instead of sending all their money overseas.
So as long as the people covered under a universal health care system are TAXPAYERS then you'd have no complaints? At least as far as giving all taxpayers the basic emergency and medical services to survive (emergency room, baby delivery, generic prescriptions, etc)?
Edited by BrAiN (09/10/07 01:32 PM)
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wilshire
free radical


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7392838 - 09/10/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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EVEN IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE you're paying for other people. How is it any different if we have a uniervsal health care system covered in taxes?
they are different in that under the private system, what you pay is based on your likely burden on health services (which is exactly what it should be based on) and in a government system, it's based on how much money you make.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7393168 - 09/10/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I thought this was going to be a rant about socialism. Instead I see a loser's lament. Will someone please explain to me why a group that has the least use for health care is so fucking gung ho to have to pay forever for something they may never need. Don't bother telling me that if it's "free" people will take better care of themselves. I was covered for 15 years by my ex wife's HMO, from 25 to 40. Guess how many times I went for a physical. ONCE. And that was when she said I was losing my hearing because of rock and roll (my hearing was better than hers, I just couldn't stand to listen to her).
And why the fuck does anybody think the government will perform this service more efficiently when absolutely nothing it does ever outperforms the private sector?
And why do so many of you think that this will be a boon to you? Are you so invested in your own future failure that you don't think you will be able to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES? Fucking losers before you even start. Ptooey, what a bunch of pussies.
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Edited by zappaisgod (09/10/07 06:43 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7393298 - 09/10/07 07:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So as long as the people covered under a universal health care system are TAXPAYERS then you'd have no complaints?
I would have one fewer complaint. There are still other issues... for example, if I choose to eat transfat soaked bread everyday for every meal, why should I get the same "government" health benefits as somebody that takes very good care of her body?
My real gripe with universal health care is that it is simply another "Robin Hood" movement; something which I find inherently unconstitutional. Nowhere in the US constitution does it give congress permission to take wealth/property from one group of the population just to give it to another group of the population. I would much rather see the government get smaller, and let me decide what to do with my money, rather than get bigger, and decide how best to spend my money for me. I would much rather spend $2400 a year on health care that I decide upon rather than giving the government $2400 a year in taxes and taking whatever health care they decide to return to me.
It amazes me that (in general) people will trust the government to look after their health care, and in the same breath condemn the government for faking Bin Laden tapes and executing the events of 9/11.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7393468 - 09/10/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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First of all you analogy doesn’t hold water, because assuming that the Lottery you are talking about is similar to any of the current state lotteries, you still have about a 1 in 300,000,000 chance to win regardless of how many people play. Second I think it is rather silly to compare winning the lottery to getting sick and “winning” the money required to make you healthy again. That might just be a semantic argument, so maybe it is just my preference.
Secondly all of the government funded health care be it veteran medical assistance, to the insurance given to our politicians is more efficient than ANY of the private insurance companies I have ever researched. So you could consider the efficiency savings as the $1 that everyone puts in.
More over the whole principal of insurance is to diversify risk among a large population of people. A single payer health care system would do that more efficiently, with fewer middlemen, less advertising, and more direct control, than any single private insurer could offer.
It blows my mind that anyone can trust the government enough to protect us from hostile nations, support the faith biased currency in our pockets, and implement a fair judicial body, but not support a states job to insure public health. At least in a government I have a say. Compare that to a corporate entity in which I have no say, and regularly makes money from denying coverage that is due. I say give me the government.
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
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BrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7393627 - 09/10/07 08:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
Quote:
So as long as the people covered under a universal health care system are TAXPAYERS then you'd have no complaints?
I would have one fewer complaint. There are still other issues... for example, if I choose to eat transfat soaked bread everyday for every meal, why should I get the same "government" health benefits as somebody that takes very good care of her body?
My real gripe with universal health care is that it is simply another "Robin Hood" movement; something which I find inherently unconstitutional. Nowhere in the US constitution does it give congress permission to take wealth/property from one group of the population just to give it to another group of the population. I would much rather see the government get smaller, and let me decide what to do with my money, rather than get bigger, and decide how best to spend my money for me. I would much rather spend $2400 a year on health care that I decide upon rather than giving the government $2400 a year in taxes and taking whatever health care they decide to return to me.
It amazes me that (in general) people will trust the government to look after their health care, and in the same breath condemn the government for faking Bin Laden tapes and executing the events of 9/11.
Again.. how is this different from me paying thousands in tax dollars over my lifespan for fire services that I never use that goes towards an idiot that drops a cig and burns his housedown ... he doesn't get a bill.. and i end up paying for his shit.. how isn't that a robin hood idea where I just flip HIS bill?
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7393640 - 09/10/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:19 PM)
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: zappaisgod]
#7393656 - 09/10/07 08:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:20 PM)
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Smackshadow]
#7393729 - 09/10/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:20 PM)
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allreadyused
The Liquor


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7394362 - 09/10/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm a Republican. The only chance I ever get to vote for them is in the primary elections. The big problem with the Repulicans it the party is controlled by religous conservatives; just as bad as islamic extremists if you ask me. Who bombs abortion clinics? I', really more of a liberterian but I like to vote in the primaries that's why I'm not registered as a liberterian. As far as universal healthcare I'm all for it. I like the idea of socialism but for it to work everybody in the country has to be on the same page and I don't think society has evolved to that point yet. In fact I know it hasen't. But I'm ok with the system we have now. I'm cool with capitalism though. I like the idea of having material posessions and in great abundance.
-------------------- Everything I say is for entertainment. Fuck the ASPCA
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7395134 - 09/11/07 04:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> the insurance given to our politicians is more efficient than ANY of the private insurance companies
Since you bring up politicians, look at the disparity between retirement benefits for congress provided by the government versus retirement benefits for everybody else provided by the government. Look at health care and you will see that congress gets the best health care my tax money can buy. Comparing with the current system of retirement/social security to a system of government health care, it is easy to see that everybody else would get the crumbs that were left over after congress had their fix. Claiming that the existing health care that congress gets would extend to all citizens with the advent of universal health care is ludicrous.
> Again.. how is this different from me paying thousands in tax dollars over my lifespan for fire services
That is a different topic for another thread. You are assuming that I support tax dollars for fire services. (I don't have a problem with fire services for public property, but feel that their costs for use on private property should be reimbursed by the property owner rather than taken from taxes.)
> just FUCK the conversation about the whole humanitarian side for a second.
Why, exactly, should the government be forcing its citizens to be humanitarian? A government should be protecting its citizens right to be humanitarian if they so choose. Leave the humanitarian decisions with the communities, not with the federal government.
> At least in a government I have a say. Compare that to a corporate entity in which I have no say, and regularly makes money from denying coverage that is due. I say give me the government.
Personally, I don't need a babysitter to take care of me. I am mature enough to take care of myself. I don't understand people that want the government to act like mommy and daddy, telling them what medicines to take, what doctors to see, what time to get up, etc.
You have much more say with corporate entities that you are pretending. As a shareholder in a public company, you get to vote on company policy. Employees can get together and form unions to ensure their voices are heard. Consumers can boycott a companies goods.
With the government, you have no say, except to vote. Why are drugs illegal? Why are we at war in the middle east? Remember Bush saying something along the lines of "I don't listen to public opinion. I'm the decider and I do what I want." This is the voice you have in the government.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7395190 - 09/11/07 05:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
You have much more say with corporate entities that you are pretending.
I'm sure you have more say with the government as well, if you stop pretending. If people would stand up they could change the whole establishment, but they chose to have a babysitter telling them what to do.
Shareholders and consumer boycott? So the vote of the wealthy should outweigh the vote of the poor? Sounds like a good democracy you've got going there.
I live in a nation with universal health care, and I can decide what doctor I want to see, what medicin I want to use. As a patient I also have a say.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Arp]
#7395225 - 09/11/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> If people would stand up they could change the whole establishment
China, North Korea, Cuba, etc, all being great examples where the people stand up and change the whole establishment. Works really, really well.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7395261 - 09/11/07 06:22 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I thought Americans were better than letting things turn into a 3rd world style dictatorship?
Is that the best thing Americans can accomplish, is that what you are saying?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Arp]
#7395277 - 09/11/07 06:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not at all. I am saying that people (in general) have a lot less control over their governments that you seem to think. If it were so easy to "stand up" and "change the whole establishment", then these countries would have done so long ago. Although America has a representative democracy, the American citizens are just as impotent to make sweeping changes as the citizens in these other countries.
> I live in a nation with universal health care, and I can decide what doctor I want to see, what medicin I want to use.
You can see any specialist you want, no questions asked, no strings attached? You can use any medicine you wish, not having to select from a list of government approved medications? Both questions assuming that your government is paying for all expenses. I don't know where you live, but I doubt you have as much freedom as you are claiming. I could be wrong.
Edit: Found this, written in 1998, so a bit dated...
Quote:
All hospitals are teaching hospitals. For the patient, this means that when the doctor does his/her daily rounds he/she may be accompanied by a crowd of nurses and interns.
There is somewhat of an assembly line mentality among physicians that most Swedes do not question, but which can be hard for Americans to accept. Americans who are used to a personal physician or pediatrician, and who are used to taking responsibility for their own health, may have some difficulties adjusting to the Swedish system. Doctors are generally just parts of the assembly line, and one doctor can easily be exchanged for another. Patients are filed into the system, treated and sent home. Doctors in Sweden need not sell themselves to patients. Medical education does not emphasize interviewing and listening skills. They are not accustomed to patients questioning their prescribed treatments. Patients are not expected to know (or want to know) much about their diseases.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
Edited by Seuss (09/11/07 06:41 AM)
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Arp
roving mycophagist


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7395349 - 09/11/07 07:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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That text you quoted is somewhat of a horror story and doesn't really reflect the reality. Perhaps it's not like going to a mall and picking your item of choice, but you're not forced to see any particular doctor. Usually one is assigned to your area, but if you want you can change to somebody else. That people would not question whoever physician they go to is because the doctors in general are considered very competent, and if necessary they send you to an expert in the particular field. Those experts include private practitioners (I don't know to what extent, but a great deal of the health system is private, but governmentally funded).
About picking your medicines. Mostly medication is determined by your condition, but there is always a dialog between the doctor and the patient where the patient can influence.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7395380 - 09/11/07 07:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:Personally, I don't need a babysitter to take care of me.
Touche.
Did I spell that right?
I don't either, but personally I think universal health care would have more economic benefit than the way the system is now. We'll never really know if the actual CARE of a gov't run system will be better, but we could at least, like I said before, have a CAPITALIST system of different agencies competing for the universaal taxpayer money. That way you still get the engenuity of a competitive capitalist system, but still have everyone covered.
I kind of like Bush's social security privitization plan. Whyy? Before we're STILL putting taxpayer money into it so it isn't a TOTALLY private system... we just have private companies running it. You can have a HYBRID system that still works.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7396820 - 09/11/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I thought this was going to be a rant about socialism. Instead I see a loser's lament. Will someone please explain to me why a group that has the least use for health care is so fucking gung ho to have to pay forever for something they may never need. Don't bother telling me that if it's "free" people will take better care of themselves. I was covered for 15 years by my ex wife's HMO, from 25 to 40. Guess how many times I went for a physical. ONCE. And that was when she said I was losing my hearing because of rock and roll (my hearing was better than hers, I just couldn't stand to listen to her).
And why the fuck does anybody think the government will perform this service more efficiently when absolutely nothing it does ever outperforms the private sector?
And why do so many of you think that this will be a boon to you? Are you so invested in your own future failure that you don't think you will be able to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES? Fucking losers before you even start. Ptooey, what a bunch of pussies.
Not exactly a loser's lament. I cover both sidfes of the spectrum. I run my own business. I pay 100% of health insurance premiums for both my fiance (my employee) and I... and I pay for the BEST care I can get... I dish out 600 bucks a month for both of us. I rarely use health services because I'm healthy as a horse.. yet I don't mind paying the extra because I like the knowledge of knowing I have only 2000 dollars in maximum ot of pocket cost per year... and my fiance has big health problems which probably offset the cost that I pay.
I really don;t think anyone here has and MBA degree, but as far as I can tell.. it just makes sense to me that if I can get her problems taken care of NOW while she's in her mid 20's... it'll cost me LESS in the long run becuase she won't have her health issues neglected for 20 years until it's too late and she ends up sucking 50k a year in medicare anyways. Why not fix her while she's young which will make EVERYONE's health care cheaper?
I don't know what her problems are but I do know that an MBA is not who should be figuring into the equation. Aside from that, I am clearly not speaking about some one idiosyncratic case but to the larger young healthy population that seems to be clamoring for this. Neither I nor my ex wife ever received anywhere near value. Nor did anyone I know. But that is also idiosyncratic, my own small personal knowledge. I don't think that "fixing her while she's young" should entail the least bit of input from gummint. Put it in gummint hands and they just might say they'd rather pay later and hope she dies beforehand. I'm just saying.Quote:
Plus... I don;t know if you guys know it, but as a business owner I know this. If I pay you 400 bucks a month, you pay about 80 of that in taxes. I, as a business owner, have to pay 130 bucks on TOP of that in my own taxes on what I pay you. We already have a system in the U.S. where we get taxed 50-60% of our income, we just don't realize it because the corporation pays MOST of the taxes. A LARGE chunk of that goes to workman's compensation.
This is ANOTHER tax we're already paying for that goes directly to a universal health care system. So on top of the 100 a month YOU already pay in premiums... Most companies will match your 100 and raise you 50, an extra 150, like I said, they could have paid you in salary. So you're already getting fucked out of 250 bucks. Add another in 50 dollars that your company pays a month in workman's comp which is based on a % of how much your salary is, and you're really paying 300 dollars in health insurance... you just don't know if because it only FEELS like you're getting charged 100.
300 bucks a month. That's a lot of money you didn't even know you were getting fucked out of in the first place.
If universal health care were enacted... even if you paid 200% more in health insurance premiums than you do now (which, for most americans i 100 a month), you'd be paying 300 a month, which is the amount your're REALLY paying already. Like I said. You just get screwed out of it so stealthily, you don't even know it.. like a sorority chick on roofies at a rave.
Just remember this. On average. It costs most a company 180% of your salary to employ you. If you ger paid 20K a yearl Your company, between health insurance they cover, taxes (which goes partly towards workman's comp) and extra benefits is basically forking out 36K a year. abou 5K of that ends up eventually in some sort of health care system.
Ummmmm no, employers, though saddled with an extra tax bill for Fica, don't pay that much more. First of all, workman's comp is not a tax and second of all the rates are not simply determined by the payroll. They vary wildly depending on what the employee does. A roofer pays a huge percentage for the guys on the roof but almost nothing for office personnel. Matching FICA is around 7.5% so the total for FICA (soc sec + medicare) around 15%, half of which is shown as a deduction from the employees pay. Unemployment is a percentage, usually around 5, of the first 6 or 7 K in gross pay. Disability is negligible. Of the almost 15% that is FICA only 3% is medicare. Workmen's comp is not health insurance by any stretch, it is liability insurance for the company. Thus only about 3% is actually taken for health insurance currently and the only beneficiaries of that are the elderly and the indigent. Out of a $400 check about $12, counting employer contributions, goes for any kind of socialized medicine. Unemployment rates are determined by employer history and out of a $400 gross check would end up being only around 1-2% annually. Where did you come up with those numbers? As a construction contractor my break even point is about 133% of gross payroll and that's with a 15% comp rate and overhead for filing. 180%? Bullshit.
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WhiteRabbitt
Stranger


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7397062 - 09/11/07 04:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: A question for all those AGAINST paying a little extra in taxes for UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, to all your republicans who think socialism is evil and lazy: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgetting to turn your oven off and having taxpayers pay your $50,000 in services in perfectly fine as long as the cost is YOUR OWN FAULT.... right? I mean.... I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.
But getting cancer by accident which ISN'T YOUR FAULT and having taxpayers pay your $50,000 bill must mean you're a socialist, communist weasel who hates America, right?
That makes perfect sense.
Fucking asshole hypocrates.
-> BrAiN -> registered libertarian
* socialism can be a great tool for american when helping fellow citizens in time of need.
* socialism is wrong when it is used to help welfare queens crank out babies just to get another check to pay the bills
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Do you really think health care taxes would cost any more than the 300 dollars a month in health insurance you pay NOW?
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Don't you think that insuring a young, poor person now so they can get preventative care for cancer for $5,000 will cost you LESS in premiums than waiting until that poor person finally can AFFORD care than waiting until that person has a descent job at the age of 50, and having your premiums pay for all his $50,000 a year health care coverage now that he's insured by YOUR company?
-------------------- You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
#7397252 - 09/11/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Socialism is when man exploits man, Capitalism is the reverse. - Polish proverb.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
#7397997 - 09/11/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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How does that piece of shit photo not exceed every limit on earth?
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Jive turkey
a black midget shemale



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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7398628 - 09/11/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think we should all work are asses off ,and then throw are money into a pot then have it divided evenly amongst everyone so that even people that don't work can have cash too. I wanna pay for niggers to sit on their ass and smoke crack all day.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Jive turkey]
#7398692 - 09/11/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I wanna pay for niggers to sit on their ass and smoke crack all day.
If you pay taxes, you already do. I however, dont pay taxes
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: DieCommie]
#7399528 - 09/12/07 05:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wanna work hard and have my tax dollars pay for old people's viagra so they can get distracted by 15 year old chicks walking around and end up plowing through crowded street markets in santa monica.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
#7399605 - 09/12/07 06:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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> I wanna pay for niggers to sit on their ass and smoke crack all day.
I hope you are using that adjective to mean "lazy and selfish" rather than suggest that only black folk are lazy and don't work. I have seen plenty of "poor white trash" that sit back and suck off the government tit. Skin color has nothing to do with the problem.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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shitfacedme
fustfuffs

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 285
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: DieCommie]
#7399634 - 09/12/07 06:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
I wanna pay for niggers to sit on their ass and smoke crack all day.
If you pay taxes, you already do. I however, dont pay taxes
not even gst?
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Jive turkey
a black midget shemale



Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 1,075
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
#7400751 - 09/12/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > I wanna pay for niggers to sit on their ass and smoke crack all day.
I hope you are using that adjective to mean "lazy and selfish" rather than suggest that only black folk are lazy and don't work. I have seen plenty of "poor white trash" that sit back and suck off the government tit. Skin color has nothing to do with the problem.
I used to term nigger to discribe trash in general I've called way more white people niggers than any other race lol
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