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OfflineBrAiN
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To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism
    #7389302 - 09/09/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

A question for all those AGAINST paying a little extra in taxes for UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, to all your republicans who think socialism is evil and lazy:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forgetting to turn your oven off and having taxpayers pay your $50,000 in services in perfectly fine as long as the cost is YOUR OWN FAULT.... right? I mean.... I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.

But getting cancer by accident which ISN'T YOUR FAULT and having taxpayers pay your $50,000 bill must mean you're a socialist, communist weasel who hates America, right?

That makes perfect sense.

Fucking asshole hypocrates.

-> BrAiN
-> registered libertarian

* socialism can be a great tool for american when helping fellow citizens in time of need.

* socialism is wrong when it is used to help welfare queens crank out babies just to get another check to pay the bills

------------------------

Do you really think health care taxes would cost any more than the 300 dollars a month in health insurance you pay NOW?

-------------------------

Don't you think that insuring a young, poor person now so they can get preventative care for cancer for $5,000 will cost you LESS in premiums than waiting until that poor person finally can AFFORD care than waiting until that person has a descent job at the age of 50, and having your premiums pay for all his $50,000 a year health care coverage now that he's insured by YOUR company?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7389389 - 09/09/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.

That is because a fire department serves me when I have a problem. My tax money well spent on something that I may need. Please, pray tell, how does my tax money paying for your health care benefit me?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
    #7389459 - 09/09/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

>That is because a fire department serves me when I have a problem. My tax money well spent on something that I may need.

I've never used the fire department. How, pray tell, does me blowing a bunch of tax money on the fire department to pay for putting our a fire caused by your carelessness benefit ME?

Or... Are you saying you'll never need anything health related? If so... you must be the luckist person on the planet.

Can I ask you a question, being such a healthy person? For someone that never uses any kind of health services, pleast tell me.... What's it like to have never gone to the doctor, ever? huh? Must be nice. Do you have some kind of magic blood or did you manage to find the holy fountain of youth which causes you never, ever to get sick? Or maybe you happen to sell weed to your guardian angel so he/she takes extra care of you so you're never in danger of getting slammed by a hit-and-run, never in danger of getting a diseases.

Would you be so kind as to donate some of your magical blood to science so the rest of us can benefit from it?

I don't know about you, but I'm far more likely to need health care than fire department services. If you happen to need the fire services more often than health services than I think you might have a gas leak that you haven't found yet. Either that or you're just a pyromaniac.

Stop leeching off my tax money to pay for your bonfire accidents, you socialist mooch. Next time you call the fire department, I'm sending you a bill for sucking up my hard earned tax dollars.


Edited by BrAiN (09/09/07 07:44 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7389475 - 09/09/07 07:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sure he has health problems at times, but has his own private insurance to cover it. There is no fall-back like this for house fires, so your comparison doesn't work.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Redstorm]
    #7389485 - 09/09/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I'm sure he has health problems at times, but has his own private insurance to cover it. There is no fall-back like this for house fires, so your comparison doesn't work.





If he has a house fire.. he's using thousands of tax payer dollars in labor having a half dozen professionals tending to his needs, using public plumbing systems, utilizing thousands of dollars in equipment and vehicles that tax payers are flipping the bill for, fire house buildings and leases.. and he doesn't receive a single bill..

Shit I get charged 30 bucks a month for just taking a shower everyday. Someone leaves a cigarette unattended and firefighters use 100 times more water in 10 minutes than I pay for in a whole month and that moron doesn't pay a dime. How does that make any more sense than paying for someone else's health problems?

The second he gets injured in his house fire and the second he gets into that ambulance.. then magically, the rest of the bill gets sent to him. What is it so magical about that single moment where he gets rushed OUT of his burning house (for free) and the moment a few seconds later he gets stuck in an ambulance that they start keeping track of the bills?

I mean. Firetruck.. ambulance. Maybe the government just decides to send bills outs for public vehicles used that start with the letters A-E. Ambulance.. yup.. that's a bill.. Firetruck.. F-Z... hmmm.. nope.. no bill for that.

A mean hell/. You leave your burner on and a firefighter risks his OWN life to save yours and DIES in the process costing 10's of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money for the funeral and 500,000 dollars in taxpayer money in benefits for the firefighter's familly.. shoot.. lets make ALL the taxpayers flip the bill for that, right? .. Right? NOPE? Hmm... weird... I don't hear people complaining about that.

If you think you should only have to pay for your own health costs... I'm fine with that. Like I said. I'm libertarian. I like small government. But I don't understand why people bitch and whine about why they should have to shell out a few extra bucks per month in health coverage in taxes when they don't complain about paying all this money for other public socialist services like firefighters and police that they never even use. It's just hypocritical. Why are taxpayers covering services that are used when someone is a total idiot and burns down their own apartment?

Part of me is playing devils advocate here just to make a point about the hypocracy of how our tax dollars are divied up. People get so riled up about paying probably the same they would in health insurance per month to cover what could be a FREE UNIVERSAL health care system, and no one even bothers to bitch and complain about wasting their tax dollars on services that are used up by other people's carelessness.


Edited by BrAiN (09/09/07 07:59 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7389522 - 09/09/07 08:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I essentially agree with you. I think that one should have to pay for their own house fires or have homeowner's insurance cover the cost.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Redstorm]
    #7389537 - 09/09/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not saying that we need a FEDERAL socialist health care system. I'm libertarian afterall. I just think universal health care deserves a chance. As a libertarian, I think federal laws should be repealed for rea and the states should have the right to tackle their own issues like gay marriage, health care, abortion, etc and let citizens decide which laws they agree to and pick which states are better for them.

We'll never really know if Universal Health care will work until we try it... but then if it DOESNT work then we've wasted all this money.. so it would be nice if just ONE state gave it a shot... as a guinea pig. If it works, others could use it as an example.

At least... for economic reasons it should be given a shot if not for humanitarian. There is a reason that people are required in almost all states to have car insurance. It's not that the gov't doesn't want to see uninsured people to be in debt for the rest of their lives. The gov't doesn't give a fuck. The only reason they require it is because it keeps insurance rates down for those who ARE insured. If everyone gets covered in health when they're young, they pay less in prevention now than they will in dealing with a problem later which saves us ALL money. Massachussets at least as thought about this idea and started to require everyone to have health insurance.. not because they give a fuck about any of the poor people, but because it will KEEP HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS LOW!

At least consider the economic benefits.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Redstorm]
    #7389567 - 09/09/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I essentially agree with you. I think that one should have to pay for their own house fires or have homeowner's insurance cover the cost.




Thank you. Personally I believe in a system where we all look our for each other will work better. But it's just a theory. We have oour differences. But it I can just convince people to at least see the hypocracy of arguments against health care, then I'm happy.

I have a hard core conservative buddy who thinks corporations should have the right to discriminate based on race, religion, and enthnicity... and part of me agrees with him just because you can't FORCE PEOPLE to give a shit about others. If you do, your gov't is just as bad as a facist system. But again I believe that even though we have the right to say "FUCK OFF" to people, a system where we all look after each other and a system where we STICK to that.. will ultimately benefit the greater good.

I'm a libertarian by registration, by common sense... but an Anarchist at heart, although I know where anarchism will never work.

But like I said... also at least consider the economic benefits of a health care system. We can at least make people who go to the hospital for stupid shit like blowing off their hands with fireworks pay their own bills, and maybe just cover people who have health problems that aren't their own fault... and if it costs more... offset the costs by billing idiots that burn their own houses down by dropping a cigarrette on the carpet instead of letting them get all their firefighting services totally free.

I'm a slightly socialist libertarian..., because I believe in the true MEANING of socialism... doing things for the GOOD of SOCIETY. We live in a spoiled society where people think they can have 5,000 kids just to get an extra welfare check. I hate welfare queens, and people who think we should pay taxpayer money on stupid social problems that encourage people to be lazy. But I believe in social systems like universal health care ( to an extent), and divying up tax money for schools evenly instead of giving all the money to schools in rich districts.... for if we're all born equal.. we should all get equal chances as minors... but the second we turn 18... we're responsible for our own decisions. If you have 5,000 kids by the time you're 22 years old... keep some sort of welfare system but give food and supplies to the kids directly instead of giving welfare checks to idiotic parents who've already proven themselves irresponsible.

A social system with a focus on INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY is what this country needs.... We've taken a good idea and caused EVERYONE to be apathetic. and spoiled.. DEPENDANT on the government instead of taking responsibility for their own lack of motication...

and that has caused hard working conservatives who normally would have half a heart... to want to guard their pockets... completely polarizing the nation. Liberals become more lazy and assume the rich are just lucky and should flip their bills.. and conservatives are becoming more penny pinching, thinking that extra taxes will ONLY go towards benefiting those lazier than them who never got off their asses and tried to earn their own money. Both sides are generalizing which ends up causing more hate and the system gets more fucked

and then... when it gets bad enough.. the unity we once had.. were we would stop what we're doing and help others.. where we normall would give a few dollars to help someone in need.. turns into the poor just getting pissed and lethargic and the rich not giving up anything. The unity we once had is no more and that's when this nation will turn to shambles.

A universal health care system, I belive, would be a good start a fixing this system.

But that's just me.


Edited by BrAiN (09/09/07 08:24 PM)


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7389712 - 09/09/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.

quite a number of libertarians believe that fire fighting should not be a government service. i do.


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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7389722 - 09/09/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: DieCommie]
    #7389812 - 09/09/07 09:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.

the government could compel building owners to enroll in a private fire fighting service like they do with car owners and auto liability insurance.


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OfflineSmackshadow
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: wilshire]
    #7390180 - 09/09/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quite a number of libertarians believe that fire fighting should not be a government service. i do.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Maybe cancer doesn't but unchecked plagues do. Even with cancer certainly we reduce labor work hours which can have a dramatic effect on work place productivity.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the government could compel building owners to enroll in a private fire fighting service like they do with car owners and auto liability insurance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We could put an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, but wouldn't it be better to put a fence at the top? Maybe instead of relying on a system that only pays for medical bills once a person is sick or for the house once it has burned down, we should encourage a system where people are more able to take preventative measures before calamity happens. In a single payer health care system more people would be able to see doctors on a regular basis, get flu shots, stop smoking services, exc which would reduce the very high expense of hospital visits let alone emergency care services.

I think it is worth a shot esp. considering our current alliterative.


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The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7390262 - 09/09/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Who said that anyone not willing to pay for another's self neglect and abuse, is also not willing to pay for their own Fire department services if EVER, required?

That would be fine with me. :shrug:

How many Christmas's do people have to watch peoples homes burn down,  because of dried out live trees, before people stop using live x-mas trees? Same with fires started by smoking in the house, and old crappy electrical wiring?

Why can't property owners insurance cover the FD's costs just like health insurance covers the doctors cost? It doesn;t have to come from out of taxxes. Some small towns in America still have volunteer fire departments that self fund.

Neglect and carelessness, like with house fires, goes the same in most cases for personal health problems.


I think the government taxxes should fully, pay for war veterans care. I also think the U.S. should only engage in war as a means of defending OUR borders only.

I do feel for children whose health suffers because of parents who don't have a clue (shouldn't be having children, they can not afford health care insurance for and or, expose them to so much crap that is bad for their health). Not fair to the kids. Thats where children's charities come into play and I do regularly donate to children's hospitals.

Old peoples problems? Lets see,....... they had 50 plus years to get their act together, mentally, emotionally, physically and financially. Why should I pay for their irresponsibility to set themselves up adequately for their later years? Mother nature takes people out with age naturally anyway as it was meant to be.

What if some guy blew his life away on alcohol and gambling? Why should I cover the cost of his liver transplant? I say, let him go to the great beyond already.



How many old people are kept breathing at a HIGH cost, ( thousands a month) whose minds have been all but lost, and who do nothing but collect bed sores?

Whatever happened to their healthy and able children and grandchildren taking care of them in their old age? Could be because family values have gone down the toilet?

Then you have emergency health care. What percent of it comes from people making a personal choice to engage in reckless activities or another's to create a case of negligence. Why should I pay for the poor choices of others when I take greater care in my own choice making?


Here's a sad factoid. Though humans in general are living longer, the U.S. comes in 47th place for longevity.

Our government LOVES to approve the polluting of our air, water, and food with lethal toxins. Americans do nothing enough about it and consume most of the crap causing it. Americans love their mental negativity, emotional dramas and suffering,  and junk food in all it's forms. They love to couch potato it and think being fat and lazy is the American dream. They love their fast passed, stressed out, rat race, get no sleep working and partying to death, processed foods eating lifestyles.

I have NO desire to sponsor the consequences of those poor choices others make and then claim victim of. As far as I am concerned, no one owes me a thing for making poor and or uneducated choices.

Before we can become a nation where everyone is looking out for each others health, we are going to have to start with getting rid of everything known to collectively ruin it for each other to wipe the slate fair and clean.

The FDA sure isn't doing it. I am still floored over the known hazardous poisons they approve for our foods and drinks. Same goes with the environmental protection agency. What a joke they are.

If we could pull that off, then we have to start taking personal responsibility as individuals living a way of preventative health care and maintenance.

We have become a society that believes shit happens to us and we fix it synthetic  drugs and scapels after wards. There is a cause for every effect in this Universe. Not only is understanding cause and effect key, if everyone did, a health crisis would be experienced and known as a gift of learning/healing.

You want someone to look out for your health?:grin: I will recommend  3 books for you to take to mind heart and ACTION. I'd love to direct you to teachings on how not to get diseased and deathly il in the first place and or what to do if you do, to heal yourself without a 6 figure medical bill.

If you choose to blow off the wisdom of these books, then, what you meant to say was, you just want to live in ignorance, carelessly and abusively and have strangers cover the cost of the consequences, not "we should look out for each other", in anyway that makes me feel warm and fuzzy. 

If you blow them off, you best start saving your money and get insurance then, because, our lifestyle in the U.S., along with  food, water and air supplies are becoming more deadly toxic by the minute, extra thanks to the CFR member you probably plan on voting for.

After reading all 3 of them, you may understand my position on this issue regarding the importance of individuals ability to take personal responsibility for their general well being. It's not that I am not a compassionate human being with my stance here. When in a health crisis, the healing and understanding can only begin when we are forced to understand the underlying cause.

Running to a doctor or surgeon who gives you drugs to mask problems and or cuts body parts away, will not help anyone remedy the actual cause of the disease or illness. Further, the drugs and body mutilation will only serve to further weaken the bodies natural healing abilities and immunities.

Much cheaper then your first co-pay or socilaized health care tax-

The TAO of DETOX, The Secrets of Yang-Sheng Dao
by Daniel Ried

Holy Bajesus the things I learned that I can't believe I lived for 39 years without knowing most of it and wishing I did. Our educational system, the Attorney General, and FDA ?EPA really blow HARD. Anyone with cancer needs to read this book.

HEAL YOUR BODY, The Mental Causes for Physical Illness and the Metaphysical way to Overcome Them
by Louise L. Hay

Brilliant insight into the mind body connection!

and what helps bridge the two above is

Ageless Body Timeless Mind
by Deepak Chopra

He gives a good overview of the holistic body and how it all works together.

Working with these books will keep you on the path of prevention quite well indeed.:yesnod:

FYI, I am currently registered with the Green party, yet am switching this once to vote for a republican, RON PAUL, because he is the first real hope I have at some miracle getting him in, and his being the start of un-fucking, as YTHAN put it, all thats wrong with America.

I listen to everything Paul has to say and this guy , like a holistic practioner, sees and knows the underlying cause of all the major problems in the U.S. and he has the cure for it all at the causative level.

The rest of these guys have band aides, and more feel good drugs that just mask the underlying causes and create more, elsewhere within the holistic system, which will create new il effects for America and the globe later up the road.




Why don't those who want socialized health care, come up with an elective opt in choice plan?. Simple enough for the government to act like your insurance carrier with your self elected tax increases to cover the rip off costs. 

Why anyone expects a free ride off of hard working Americans is beyond me. Thats what charity is for and charities and donaters to them are out there.

What gives anyone the right to expect that though?

Evolution/nature/God, whatever your choice of creator, never guaranteed any of us the rights to a full and healthy life. Entropy, disease, disorder and chaos is found all over the natural world. Why and How people expect other people to pay for and guarantee them their good health is beyond me.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
    #7390365 - 09/10/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I don't hear you conservatives complaining about the way your taxes get sent to fire departments.

That is because a fire department serves me when I have a problem. My tax money well spent on something that I may need. Please, pray tell, how does my tax money paying for your health care benefit me?



perhaps he works at the fire department that serves you when you have a problem?

your tax moneys


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: California]
    #7390777 - 09/10/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> perhaps he works at the fire department that serves you when you have a problem?

So I should pay for other people's health care on the off chance that I may need their services some day? Hmmm... I think other people should pay off my house loan because everybody deserves a place to live.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: DieCommie]
    #7390820 - 09/10/07 05:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
An un-fought fire puts other people's property at risk. Un-treated cancer puts nobody else at risk.




Cancer is just one easy example I used because it's a very long term, expensive problem.

Untreated COMMUNICABLE diseases put everyone at risk.

And from an econoomic standpoint.. wouldn't it be cheaper to give someone preventative care for a short amount of time when they're younger than to spend thousands of dollars a year on treating someone for the rest of their life when that diseases you try to prevent becomes irreversible?


Edited by BrAiN (09/10/07 05:36 AM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
    #7390829 - 09/10/07 05:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The whole argument "Universal health care is wrong because.. why should I have to pay for other people?" Is flawed because even if you HAVE INSURANCE.. you those who DON'T NEED the service are ALREADY paying for those who do.

If everyone out there throws in 100 bucks a month for health insurance, that's 1200 a year. If you're healthy, you're not going to use 1200 dollars in health care. If you're sick, you'll use 10,000 dollars in health care. So even those who ARE insured, if you're healthy you're getting ripped off by paying more than you're putting in and if you're sick you're using way more than you've put in.

EVEN IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE you're paying for other people. How is it any different if we have a uniervsal health care system covered in taxes? How much more do you think you'd be paying than you already chip in now. Think about it. You pay 50 bucks a pay period. That's 100 a month. You company flips half the bill so they're dishing out 100 bucks as well that they COULD have paid you in salary so you're really paying 200 bucks a month

Quote:

Seuss said:
So I should pay for other people's health care on the off chance that I may need their services some day? Hmmm... I think other people should pay off my house loan because everybody deserves a place to live.




If that's what you think is fair then... that if you burn down your house this year and I don't burn down my house.... then YOU should refund to ME all the tax money that I put in that went to fire services

ANd the tax loan comparison is flawed. I'm not talking about COMMUNISISM where everyone gets the same amount of shit no matter how hard you work. If you make 100 grand a year you work hard and deserve to live in a nicer place than someone who works at mccy d's for 10 grand a year. If you make 100 grand a year does that mean you deserve to have better cancer treatment than someone who works at mcdonald's ? Why? When did making more money mean you're a better human being than someone else?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
    #7390835 - 09/10/07 05:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

So I should pay for other people's health care on the off chance that I may need their services some day? Hmmm... I think other people should pay off my house loan because everybody deserves a place to live.




That's the ENTIRE REASON you pay for health insurance anyways! You pay for health insurance because the chance that you may need to utilize expensive health services one day.. services that are going to cost you more than you're putting in.

By your logic, if you end up paying insurance and utilizing more in dollar amount than you put in, that means your're just another BUM that's leeching off of the system.

I think the whole problem people have with health insurance being covered by gov't/taxes is that those who are POOR will be sucking more out of the system causing those who make more money like us (who are well off enough to have enough $ to pay for luxuries like a computer and internet access) will end up paying more. If this isn't the case and you end up paying the same amount you normally would for health insurance, then what's the problem? Wouldn't it be nice to know that if even though you work hard and still lost your job that you'd still be covered.

I consider myself a pretty hard worker and a descent citizen. A few years ago I got a job and when I quit the old job there was a one month gap in my health care. This wasn't because I was lazy and had no job.. it was a technical problem with the system. I was a hard worker and I kept myself employed everyday, but for administrative reasons I didn't have coverage for a month. Well guess what... one day after my coverage expired at the old company I broke my nose. Because I was between jobs at the time I was a little strapped for cash and a single trip to the emergency room to keep myself from bleeding to death cost me 900 dollars! All because, even though I did what I was supposed to do as an American.. work hard and keep myself employed, there were a few days lapse where I got screwed.

No one is immune to it. There will come a day always when hard working people aren't insured. You'll change jobs, lose your jobs, get screwed by your insurance company when they don't want to pay for something that you need just so they can save some money even when you ARE insured. Wouldn't it be nice to pay maybe a few extra dollars in taxes to know you NEVER had to worry about unexpected circumstances like these?



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: BrAiN]
    #7390869 - 09/10/07 06:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> Wouldn't it be nice to pay maybe a few extra dollars in taxes to know you NEVER had to worry about unexpected circumstances like these?

Kind of like a pay maybe a few extra dollars in taxes to know that I will NEVER have to worry about money when I retire because social security will take care of me? Fantasy land must be nice...


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism [Re: Seuss]
    #7391057 - 09/10/07 08:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'll admit that soc security is going bankrupt, but you don't have to wait until you're old to benefit from it... It's for disabilities too. If you chopped your arm off and couldn't work right now, you'd start collecting benefits.

It IS one example of a fucked up gov't run social program, I'll grant you that. There are plenty of social programs we pay taxes for that work, though... 911 and police, firefighting services, etc. A private social security program MIGHT work, but it MIGHT not. Who knows. I'm not saying that we should let the gov't take over the ENTIRE health care system. Let private companies run the health services and compete for gov't tax money. That way you still get the benefits you'd get with a capitalist system (competition makes better advances in technology and medical offices that do a shitty job of managing the money don't get their contracts renewed and lose out to others) but the money would come from taxes.

And you never responded to my earlier rebuttal. If you get injured or get cancer and your insurance gives you a quarter million dollars in health services.... that money is coming from everyone else's premiums,THEN how are YOU not being the person you're complaing about? How are YOU not then being the the person that everyone else is paying for?


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