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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Veritas]
#7387639 - 09/09/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
What's not to love? They are living beings, which is my prequalification for being loved. Unless you believe that someone must earn love, and adhere to certain behaviors in order to continue to receive love, then Hitler is just as potentially loveable as your girlfriend.
IMO, the real question is--are you capable of loving Osama, Hitler, Stalin, Manson, Bundy, and so on?
You are talking about the highest form of love - unconditional love.
Let me forget about Osama and his ilk. Am I capable of loving my boss. Lately i don't agree with his policies, and have developed a disliking and hate towards him..but there are times when i see a better part of him..
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: shakercee]
#7387678 - 09/09/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again, does he need to earn your love?
IMO, the actions of others trigger our own limitations to being loving, but have nothing to do with their own loveability. If we recognize that these limits exist within us, and can be expanded, then it becomes clear that everyone is potentially loveable.
I don't know if humans are capable of purely unconditional love. Perhaps the healthiest & least-neurotic among us can come close to this ideal. Yet I see it as a worthy aim, however far from the mark my arrows might land.
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Veritas]
#7387717 - 09/09/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Again, does he need to earn your love?
Well, truth to be said, in one of my posts in another thread, i had mentioned that i have found something in everyone, a commanality that i can relate, the feeling of being alive, just being. And i had love for everyone..i have to find that again, the realization...but for Osama...well i have to go deeper. 
Thanks, for your insights, Veritas.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Veritas]
#7387756 - 09/09/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Again, does he need to earn your love?
IMO, the actions of others trigger our own limitations to being loving, but have nothing to do with their own loveability. If we recognize that these limits exist within us, and can be expanded, then it becomes clear that everyone is potentially loveable.
I don't know if humans are capable of purely unconditional love. Perhaps the healthiest & least-neurotic among us can come close to this ideal. Yet I see it as a worthy aim, however far from the mark my arrows might land.
sorry all, I was in mid trip when I designed this thread, so it has to be taken with a grain or two of salt. yes, unconditional love is what I was talking about. I realized last night that I judge people a lot and I need to just love people for what they are, other human beings. When I can start doing that effectively and genuinely, then I can only assume my own outlook on life will be 100 times more beautiful.
I am not saying that I judge all people in an unfair way, but I caught myself last night judging for no reason on a few people I know. It's really stupid and there isn't any need for me to do that to them, even if it's in my own head and kept to myself; it can only hurt the relationship between us.
Anyways, this post was kind of a ramble, but it showcases the ideal I am going to be shooting for the duration of this existence 
Peace
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
Edited by Syle (09/09/07 10:57 AM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: shakercee]
#7387758 - 09/09/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Another thing to think about...we probably do not know the whole truth about Osama, or Hitler, or any of the "failed" humans whom history has painted as monsters.
A history class I took years ago had a fascinating chapter on propaganda, in which we reviewed flyers and posters which were distributed during different wars. The common theme was "they are not human." It seemed to me that the intention of such propaganda was to cut the empathic connection between us & "them," and to create a framework in which it was acceptable to hate and kill strangers.
Realize that we, as Americans, have been subjected to massive amounts of propaganda regarding Osama bin Laden, and that the kernel of truth that may exist within the layers of lies is not likely to be known by us.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Veritas]
#7387767 - 09/09/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Another thing to think about...we probably do not know the whole truth about Osama, or Hitler, or any of the "failed" humans whom history has painted as monsters.
A history class I took years ago had a fascinating chapter on propaganda, in which we reviewed flyers and posters which were distributed during different wars. The common theme was "they are not human." It seemed to me that the intention of such propaganda was to cut the empathic connection between us & "them," and to create a framework in which it was acceptable to hate and kill strangers.
Realize that we, as Americans, have been subjected to massive amounts of propaganda regarding Osama bin Laden, and that the kernel of truth that may exist within the layers of lies is not likely to be known by us.
i have a hard time separating that from naivety...?
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Syle]
#7387779 - 09/09/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Naivete The state or quality of being inexperienced or unsophisticated, especially in being artless, credulous, or uncritical.
How is it naive to separate the actions from the person? To question the veracity of media depictions of those with whom our government is at war? 
In fact, I would say that it requires naivete to believe the propaganda is accurate, given the historical use of said methods.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Syle]
#7387845 - 09/09/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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good point. i misunderstood what you were saying. sorry.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Syle]
#7388265 - 09/09/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Love that is Transcendental is Love as a state of Being. It requires mindful realization that Being is our true nature. For myself, loving others in the light of this realization mean 'letting be,' allowing others to just Be without me desiring, demanding, manipulating, exploiting or in some way laying a trip with my own agenda on others. This sounds emotionally colorless on my part, but loving others in a Transcendental way is not an emotion-based action. It is not what is called romantic love or friendship. It is not necessarily affectionate either.
What it is, is the recognition of our true nature as freedom - the freedom to rest in our own nature - the freedom of knowing that even though others regard us as a body and a mind, we are not obliged to share their false understanding of human nature and neither are we obliged to regard the bodies and minds of others as their true nature. The more intently I adhere to this perspective, the more I can see in the deluded and unhappy people with whom I work on a daily basis. I can read their expressions and anticipate their reactions with greater accuracy. Each of my perceptions seems surrounded and separated by more and more space - space of colorless awareness. I hear stupid insensitive remarks or attempts at intimidating me and I understand where these people are coming from and I smile inwardly (sometimes outwardly) and 'forgive' them their non-comprehending ways, trapped in their own minds as they are. This is how I love these people. I listen and I acknowledge, but I remain logical not emotional, not unconscious. I love others with all the clarity that I can Be when I'm around them and convey fulfillment, if not just contentment with the moment.
A middle-aged obese female assistant principal who is herself miserable, visits misery on everyone she encounters. She came in this school year with obvious liposuction and stomach-stapling (which she said was gall-bladder surgery). She still eats compulsively, even while talking with others in her office. People try to be nice to her by complimenting her on her appearance, but this is not love, this is a form of ass-kissing. Everyone knows her emotional story - that her husband divorced her 25 years ago, and she must play this story of being a victim repeatedly in her mind, generating bitter emotions which she spreads to others and constantly tries to self-sooth herself with food. This person tells the world that her job is her life and she micromanages everyone she can. This is an individual with a big ego and a bigger "pain-body" as Eckhart Tolle calls it. Rather than reinforce either of these aspects of this woman, I endeavor to present the Presence of simple Being. At root, we are of the same Being, but my ego is not a vehicle for communicating it. She may never get it, as dense as her pain-body seems to be, but the best way to be loving in this case is to Be transparent to all the pain she throws out. "Resist not evil" as the admonition goes, respond, NOT react to this very toxic personality.
To love someone Transcendentally is to be a Light, a Clear Light, a Presence in which another can feel free and accepted, not complimented or criticized. That is to say, Be a source of Transcendental Oneness, above the human entrapment in duality.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
For myself, loving others in the light of this realization mean 'letting be,' allowing others to just Be without me desiring, demanding, manipulating, exploiting or in some way laying a trip with my own agenda on others.
Well put. I like this concept, and find that it is easier to apply when I am content with my own existence & generally in a balanced state. When I am out of balance, my tendency is to wish that others would be other than they are, as though it will help me feel better.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Realized this tonight [Re: Veritas]
#7388895 - 09/09/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks. The commandment or suggestion (in less egotistic traditions) to love one another, or better yet, to love your enemies requires further elucidation. The naive meanings of the English word love are not helpful. I didn't intend to infer a no-action state of Being either. I can still help someone without thought of reward, but I wanted to respond with something which described having one's Love Light on always and how one might love without obvious activity. The Old Testament expects total love from one's whole Being: "Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul and with all thy might." Spiritual, mental and physical participation in Being in each moment. Compassionate action (LORD) flows from immersion in Being (God). Am I just going to Witness an ant lion beetle struggle or am I going to Save it from drowning in the pool? One could say that loving "the LORD thy God" is loving compassion above all else.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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