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OfflineEl Zorro
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 902
Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
subbalteatus questions (Update Some new Questions See New Post)
    #7384666 - 09/08/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hi,
This is my first post but I have been researching here for about a year now. I have some questions regarding Pan Subbalteatus.
I have a small city park by my house and have found some small mushrooms that have all the characteristics of Subbs but they are very small.
The largest that I found today was about one inch in diameter.
They have brownish/greyish colored caps with the characteristic belting around the margin. the gills are close and dark grey on the mature ones and lighter buff colored on the young ones. The gills do not hang below the margin. The stems are very thick for their size and are hollow in the center and fibrous, with the lines of the fibers spiraling around the stem. Some spiral more than others. The stems are brownish reddish on the mature ones, with the young ones having a whitish color that wipes off easily. The ones I printed this morning have a black print. I found some last week that had lost their belting from being in the sun. The ones that had been in the sun exhibited bluing around the very base in the mycelium. It was a pale sky blue. The bluing occurred within five to ten minutes after picking. Some of the specimens I picked at another spot in the park were slightly larger and the stems were thinner, but they exhibited all the same characteristic and were obviously the same species.
They all have a very distinct mushroomy smell.
Similar to the wild cubensis I picked as a kid.

First question:
Is it common for these to be so small.
The weather is very hot and dry. The only water being from the sprinklers.

Second question:
Are there any other panaeolus species that have these characteristics but grow typically small like this.

I believe the size may be due to the environment. As soon as they reach the top of the very short grass they are in the sun.

I'm apologize for the lack of pictures but I am sure someone can help me based on the descriptions I have provided.


Edited by El Zorro (09/24/07 09:59 AM)


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InvisiblePhish_Dude
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: El Zorro]
    #7384871 - 09/08/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the ones with a black spore print are good make sure the print is not dark purple, those should be thrown out.
they are normal in many different climates, where are you from man?
i think thats the only subb that is like that.


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Offlineimplee
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: El Zorro]
    #7384880 - 09/08/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

They start off small do they grow any bigger?

And if you search the forum
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/search.php

Or use the FAQ
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/faq2.php

Before posting you would have had your answeres.

Read this guide on subbalteatus http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7008112#7008112

(dont read that crappy one put out by mjshroomer, it sucks)

Have fun hunting


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OfflineEl Zorro
in heaven
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 902
Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: Phish_Dude]
    #7384903 - 09/08/07 06:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I am in central cali

These have a stem of about 2 to 3 inches in length. Cap of 3/8" to 3/4" diameter.

The gills on the ones I just found are brown but leave a jet black print. But they are very young ones so maybe the gills haven't had a chance to turn dark grey / black.


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: implee]
    #7384925 - 09/08/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, I have read all that I can find on this species.
I've read subbedhunter's guide.

It's just that these are so small.
Last week I found them in the same place, but they were sun dried and about the same size. I am just not sure they will get any bigger in this weather.

I don't think the answers to my specific questions are in the faq or the guides though.


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 902
Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: implee]
    #7384938 - 09/08/07 06:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sorry, you are correct.
The answer to my first question is in subbedhunters guide.
Thanks.
I was just wondering if it is normal for all of them in a certain are to be this small, with no larger ones to be found.

By the way they do all have a jet black print.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: El Zorro]
    #7388696 - 09/09/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

haha! yay people are reading my guide. still honored cuz im still new at this stuff.

:rockon:


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Invisiblecoon
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Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 3,243
Loc: behind the rows....
Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7388783 - 09/09/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

guide?what guide?:hillbilly:


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: coon]
    #7390710 - 09/10/07 03:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I dunoo.. :dumblol:


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Invisiblescout24
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: El Zorro]
    #7397308 - 09/11/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I've seen many Pan. subbs that size.


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: scout24]
    #7398266 - 09/11/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks everyone for you responses.
I have researched this thoroughly and am sure I know what these are.
Or rather-- No one seems to know exactly what they are for sure.
These are the same as the mysterious "Fla. lawn shrooms" that were dubbed Ggreatonefiolus. Some say they are subbs and some say they are Panaeolus Castanefiolus. Either way they are a small active Panaeolus.
About one in five or six have some degree of bluing at the base.
I'm so happy I could sh*t!!


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: El Zorro]
    #7400422 - 09/12/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

well do it when youre tripping so your friends can get it on camera. they do work effectively.


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7447128 - 09/24/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, I have verified that the mushrooms in question are subbs.

However I've been reading some older posts and have come across some statements that have me a little confused.
Some of the older posts by MJshroomer and some others state that if you find lawn shrooms that resemble subbalteatus then they are 95% sure to be foes. Well, I have yet to find any that do not print BLACK. Also, I have found some posts that state subbalteatus gills do not hang below the margin. I have found quite a few in one patch that do hang below the margin. Also, I have picked from one patch on one day where more than half of the specimens turn blue at the base. I have picked the same patch on a different day and none turn blue.
So my questions are these:
1) Am I just exceptionally lucky to have found no foes at all?
Or are foes just rare in my area? (Central valley, Ca.)
2) Do the gills on Subbs never hang below the margin, or is this false?
3) Does anyone know of a correlation between temperature or amount of time spent in the sun and the incidence of bluing?

Thanks again.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: El Zorro]
    #7447434 - 09/24/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

1. nope, subb patches can be foeless
2. the gills Can hang below the margin but very rarely and usually on the larger specimens when the caps are turning up.
3. i dunno about this one exactly. i know if it gets frozen or damaged in any way it will cause the bluing. i dont think temperature matters unless it causes it to freeze.


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Invisiblescout24
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7447865 - 09/24/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Here's an example of a Pan subb with gills below the margin. I think this is a function of its age - as you can see the cap is almost plane.

[/url]

Gills descending below the margin is much more prevalent in foes, in my experience, and occurs even when they are young.

I think there is better information available regarding Pan subbs than MJ shroomer's (John Allen's) 'guide' - like subbedhunter's.

Here's a comparison shot of foe and subb gills for your reference. I've found subb patches without foes, but more often they've been mixed.

[/url]

Subbs on top, foes on bottom.


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Offlinefliped
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: scout24]
    #7448115 - 09/24/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i also find subbs where the gills are below the margin aswell. I only notice this happening when the mushrooms are getting past their prime


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: subbalteatus questions [Re: fliped]
    #7448176 - 09/24/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah full maturity.

and that whole debate about mj claiming that lawn shrooms looking like subbs are still 95% foes is completely wrong. obviously foes can be mistaken for subbs but they cant be cuz they arent black spored. as long as the print is black its good. its just a little weirdly worded i guess.


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