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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Is religion a psychosis?
    #7372354 - 09/05/07 08:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I want to know what people from the pub think about this.
Is religion a psychosis?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (09/05/07 08:31 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll


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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372366 - 09/05/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Umm... what?


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:scrambled:

1 ,2

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OfflineBrugman
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372451 - 09/05/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Probably yeah.. a byproduct of irrational fear!

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372470 - 09/05/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
Umm... what?




huh?

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372484 - 09/05/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck religion, all i have a pretty good idea, and it only works for me.

Yes that came from Dogma, but shit it works.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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OfflineJunkFood
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372485 - 09/05/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

he's probably confused at the weird way tou typed the poll options.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372491 - 09/05/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

It's for the weak and the easily led.

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372492 - 09/05/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And to answer the question, no its not psychosis, its simply the ignorant leading the blind.

well, ignorant or greedy...


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (09/05/07 09:02 PM)

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OfflineJT
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372497 - 09/05/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

it's a psychosis if you can prove 100% that it's not real.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372499 - 09/05/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The older and wiser I get the more I despise organized religion.

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: JT]
    #7372506 - 09/05/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

justin_thyme said:
it's a psychosis if you can prove 100% that it's not real.




And i dont think any one on this planet could prove that to even 5%.

Many athiests i know still agree that there is some crazy shit that they cant explain, they just can say that its a higher power. I dont know, i think we are way to egotistical to admit that we are scum trying to be god.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleMike_yy
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372509 - 09/05/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Some people are drawn to religion because of their issues,, like "i've fucked up and now i feel bad. Oh hang on,,, i've found God so i'm forgiven".
Which is convenient, that's an example of some stubborn religious folk i've come across.

I think most religious people were brought up with it.
Being told things by their elders as if it's truth.
These elders couldn't possibly know if what they're saying is true or not,, they're just saying what was pumped into their heads while they were young.

So it's definately a mind fuck thing in alot of cases.

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372534 - 09/05/07 09:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Dont lump all religions together, there are many religions that dont expect any crazy behavior and impose ridiculous limitations on the way you can live your life.. Certain religions are composed solely of teachings/stories that are used as examples to make the follower experienced with situations they may not have encountered already.

Quote:


It's for the weak and the easily led.





There was a time when that is how I felt about religion also, but ive come to realize that that view point is incredibly ignorant. Most people are just trying to lead better lives and religion helps them do so. Religion isnt only about heaven and hell and saving your soul. Theres more to it, people are taught to be humble, not to give in to greed and to treat people with respect. I didnt have a revelation, im not religious now. I just realized that I should have respect for these individuals as most of them have their priorities straight. I understand where they are coming from and sort of admire the lifestyle they lead.



Anyone saying that religion sucks because there is no proof or will never be proof for the existence of god is completely missing the point of religion.


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:scrambled:

1 ,2

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372544 - 09/05/07 09:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with you fully, but all of that fall under more of a moral law then religion.

I dont need a religion to tell me i shouldent steal, cheat, lie or be greedy. I dont need religion to tell me to have respect to others. thats basic human courtisy. And is passed down through good parenting, not by the rightious hand of god.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372564 - 09/05/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You shouldnt need religion to be a good person, I agree. But if it helps you get to where you want to be, I see no harm done. You arent a sheep if you feel you need religion to make yourself a better person. You may not need it but thats you, others may feel they need to turn to a book to fully understand what is expected of them as a human being.

TS-
You are probably calling religion a psychosis because of the whole terrorist/muslim/suicide bombing shit, right? If so, how can you be so ignorant? Just because a small minority in one religion is completely fucked in the head doesnt mean that all religion is wack.


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:scrambled:

1 ,2

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372578 - 09/05/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
There was a time when that is how I felt about religion also, but ive come to realize that that view point is incredibly ignorant. Most people are just trying to lead better lives and religion helps them do so. Religion isnt only about heaven and hell and saving your soul. Theres more to it, people are taught to be humble, not to give in to greed and to treat people with respect. I didnt have a revelation, im not religious now. I just realized that I should have respect for these individuals as most of them have their priorities straight. I understand where they are coming from and sort of admire the lifestyle they lead.

Anyone saying that religion sucks because there is no proof or will never be proof for the existence of god is completely missing the point of religion.




I actually went through several phases with religion. When I was younger I was a cynical atheist who thought religion was brain-washing. Then I realized that I did believe in God and I became much more tolerant and managed to develop a respect for some religious people. Nowadays, I still believe in God but I cannot ignore the faults with the institutions of religion or with most the followers of said religions.

I can admire intelligent religious people. Most religious people (and most people in general) are not intelligent.

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372580 - 09/05/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Most religious people (and most people in general) are not intelligent.




why do you think that?

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372590 - 09/05/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Nooo, those are some fucked in the head radicals that are spewed bullshit since the day they were born because their fathers are pissed at their neighbors.

Im speaking of most wester religions. I have no problem with anyone with faith. Hell i have more respect for them then most athiests and agnostics. My problem is with the whackos coming to my front door begging me to join their church, or those who think that they are rightious because they are christian or catholic, and wont listen to a word you say. Or those corny infomertials with people crying to some corny chrstian rock band. Or the crazed people that bring a legal pad to church so they can jot down every word the pastor says.

Thats not religion, thats fanaticism. aka a cult


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372597 - 09/05/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

There will be fuck ups in any system though.. look at all the sorts of governments we've thought up over the years. Which ones were perfect? I try to localize my concerns and hatred towards those things that are not 'right' in my book. Hating on religion in general because of a small minority only makes me overlook everything thats good about it.


--------------------
:scrambled:

1 ,2

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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372598 - 09/05/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i have this religion that i follow
where you trust in your penis


all in all, it has never let me down


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: meatcakeman]
    #7372608 - 09/05/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Is that because it never goes down?


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372611 - 09/05/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ah, yeah. Some people take it too far.. I cant believe how badly some christians sell out their religion.:nonono:


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372625 - 09/05/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thats why religion was ment to be a general rule, as was government. Once you start nitpicking all the bull shit, you end up with all the red tape we have today.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372637 - 09/05/07 09:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I reject religion because every individual sect claims to have discovered truth yet only one of them can be right; which means at least 99% of them are anywhere from being mildly to extremely wrong. Even if we could be assured that one branch of religion were correct us human beings would pervert it and misinterpret it. And we are also too fraught with weaknesses and flaws to consistently enact what we would need to do to follow God's will.

And most importantly, God and His will are so beyond our comprehension that we will never be able to completely fathom what we should strive for and what we should do. God has left us hopelessly lost and He set us up to fail. We can never know what truth is. Therefore, I refuse to follow God, any spirituality, or any philosophy of any type. Nihilism is the only thing that makes any sense.

God may be my creator and he may demand my devotion, but I venomously refuse the ticket. I guess I will have to answer for that when I stand before Him.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372652 - 09/05/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

It's funny to see stereotypes talking about stereotypes.

Matt Groening couldn't come up with better parody.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372653 - 09/05/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Most religious people (and most people in general) are not intelligent.




why do you think that?




Most people do not want to think through things for themselves. They want a person or an organization to lay out ready-made ideas and outlooks for them that they can easily identify with.

Religious people, ideologues, etc.. all of these people are weak and need to have other people tell them how to think.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372661 - 09/05/07 09:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

There are religious people smarter than you. Hell, there are ones smarter than me.

generalizations, as a rule, make the person saying them look like an idiot.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372665 - 09/05/07 09:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

See, you really dont know what you're talking about.. You're saying that every sect has claimed their path is the one true path but you're only talking about like 4-5 main religions. Last time I checked, there were more than 4-5. Read up on Sikhsm.


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:scrambled:

1 ,2

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372666 - 09/05/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
There will be fuck ups in any system though.. look at all the sorts of governments we've thought up over the years. Which ones were perfect? I try to localize my concerns and hatred towards those things that are not 'right' in my book. Hating on religion in general because of a small minority only makes me overlook everything thats good about it.




Here's my beef with religious people in a nutshell:

Even though my belief in God and His alleged divine mandate are very consistent with most mainstream monotheistic religions, I have always had an ardent disdain for most religious people. I think that if someone is choosing to devote their life to something as profound and all-encompassing as a belief in a supernatural power (and the important realizations that come along with this) then they should have a sharp intellect and they should be completely cognizant of the gravity of what they are doing. Every once in a while I will come into contact with a religious person who has a powerful mind and a great understanding of his beliefs. But, more often than not I encounter religious people who are too stupid to think things through for themselves, who half-heartedly practice their faith only to avoid supernatural punishment or because it is all they have ever known, or who are too weak and scared to face the harsh realities of the world so they putridly and obsequiously grovel before a system of thought that has conveniently laid a path out for them. It seems that to think for one’s self is much too arduous for most people.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372680 - 09/05/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
There are religious people smarter than you. Hell, there are ones smarter than me.

generalizations, as a rule, make the person saying them look like an idiot.




I know damn well that there are religious people who are smarter than me. There are theologians presently and throughout history who are outright geniuses. That does not diminish the fact that most followers of any system of thought (whether it be a religion or a man-inspired ideology) are not intelligent.

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372692 - 09/05/07 09:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's funny to see stereotypes talking about stereotypes.

Matt Groening couldn't come up with better parody.




are you calling me a stereotype?  :confused:

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372698 - 09/05/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
See, you really dont know what you're talking about.. You're saying that every sect has claimed their path is the one true path but you're only talking about like 4-5 main religions. Last time I checked, there were more than 4-5. Read up on Sikhsm.




It comes down to one simple concept: Most religions and the individual sects of each religion claim that their teachings represent proof of an intelligent creator and what this creator wants or what we should strive for in general. And I assert that we cannot prove these declarations with evidence and our brains are too small to understand such cosmically important things anyway. It is like asking a hamster to do a calculus problem. Because we cannot hope to understand and consistently interpret and enact "Truth" then we should not bother. As I said, the only thing left after that is nihlism.

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372706 - 09/05/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Acyl said:
There will be fuck ups in any system though.. look at all the sorts of governments we've thought up over the years. Which ones were perfect? I try to localize my concerns and hatred towards those things that are not 'right' in my book. Hating on religion in general because of a small minority only makes me overlook everything thats good about it.




Here's my beef with religious people in a nutshell:

Even though my belief in God and His alleged divine mandate are very consistent with most mainstream monotheistic religions, I have always had an ardent disdain for most religious people. I think that if someone is choosing to devote their life to something as profound and all-encompassing as a belief in a supernatural power (and the important realizations that come along with this) then they should have a sharp intellect and they should be completely cognizant of the gravity of what they are doing. Every once in a while I will come into contact with a religious person who has a powerful mind and a great understanding of his beliefs. But, more often than not I encounter religious people who are too stupid to think things through for themselves, who half-heartedly practice their faith only to avoid supernatural punishment or because it is all they have ever known, or who are too weak and scared to face the harsh realities of the world so they putridly and obsequiously grovel before a system of thought that has conveniently laid a path out for them. It seems that to think for one’s self is much too arduous for most people.





And that is why i dont have a religion just an idea. I cant explain alot of things, but what i do know is that when i die, i wont feel guillty for not beliving in X religion.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleMike_yy
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372713 - 09/05/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You shouldnt need religion to be a good person, I agree. But if it helps you get to where you want to be, I see no harm done.





I think masses of people walking around believing the Earth's 10,000 years old,,, and that God placed fossils here to test our faiths (to trick us,, :rolleyes: ) is a negative thing..

That's basically delusional back peddling, because we know a lot more now than we did when the Bible was first written.

Ridiculous ideas are brought about because if any of God's word fails,, people are so stubborn they can't accept that what they believe so strongly may have flaws...

That's not very good for the progression of mankind.

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372719 - 09/05/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you claim that people are dumb because they are following the teachings of a religion blindly you should consider yourself a bigger dumbass for blindly paying taxes to a government that spends all its money on a bullshit war.

So what if they dont think for themselves when they need to resolve an ethical problem? They shouldnt be labeled lazy. Theyre just following a system they that feel works for them. And for the most part it does, its not really doing them any harm so who gives a shit. They get by in life just fine and are happy with their lives. Anyone trying to 'free' them will only really end up hurting them.

Also, what harsh realities of the world are you speaking about?


--------------------
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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372721 - 09/05/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
There are religious people smarter than you. Hell, there are ones smarter than me.

generalizations, as a rule, make the person saying them look like an idiot.




I know damn well that there are religious people who are smarter than me.  There are theologians presently and throughout history who are outright geniuses.  That does not diminish the fact that most followers of any system of thought (whether it be a religion or a man-inspired ideology) are not intelligent.




Considering the average measured intelligence of humanity, most people are not intelligent, period. The correlation with following a school of thought is incidental.

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's funny to see stereotypes talking about stereotypes.

Matt Groening couldn't come up with better parody.




are you calling me a stereotype?  :confused:




Not any person specifically...

but a religious subject comes up and you have the angsty atheistic statements, the anti-establishment statements... it's really quite amusing from a cynic's point of view.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372728 - 09/05/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck what anyone else says, what religion says. The only truth i have found is that making people happy will make you happy, making them feel like shit will make you feel like shit. Everything else is just the means to those ends.


--------------------

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372739 - 09/05/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I used to be religous mormon, until I I heard almost everything was a sin, so I had nothing to do with a christian religon anymore.
I worship nature now and beer. :smile:

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372744 - 09/05/07 10:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's funny to see stereotypes talking about stereotypes.

Matt Groening couldn't come up with better parody.




are you calling me a stereotype?  :confused:




Not any person specifically...

but a religious subject comes up and you have the angsty atheistic statements, the anti-establishment statements... it's really quite amusing from a cynic's point of view.




oh, well im agnostic.  i just wanted to read what others thought about it.  :smile:

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372748 - 09/05/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You may be right, its not the best thing to happen for these people.. but whos going to change it? There will be no revolution.

Id prefer to have tamed masses who scared of god rather than ignorant masses of free spirited shit starters with no morals or ethics. Maybe those are extremes though? And I guess its not a good thing... but again, how could it be changed?

:shrug: I guess its not really my problem


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372755 - 09/05/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
If you claim that people are dumb because they are following the teachings of a religion blindly you should consider yourself a bigger dumbass for blindly paying taxes to a government that spends all its money on a bullshit war.




As I clearly said, the belief in an omnipotent creator who has instituted tenets of right and wrong and who is responsible for our existence is an incredibly profound belief. It is a belief that one must be wise and dedicated in order to properly engage in. Most religious people are not wise or dedicated; most halfass their beliefs, only believe because they know nothing else, or because they fear the unknown.

Quote:

Acyl said:
So what if they dont think for themselves when they need to resolve an ethical problem? They shouldnt be labeled lazy. Theyre just following a system they that feel works for them. And for the most part it does, its not really doing them any harm so who gives a shit. They get by in life just fine and are happy with their lives. Anyone trying to 'free' them will only really end up hurting them.




People should be sheep who don't ponder the questions of reality? People should blindly follow things without asking questions or without asking for evidence? People aren't allowed to be skeptics? People aren't allowed to criticize stupid behavior?

Quote:

Acyl said:
Also, what harsh realities of the world are you speaking about?




When faced with pain, dissapointment, frustration, etc.. it is easy to immediately turn to an ideal and paternal God figure who offers you solace, guidance, and promised rewards. It provides comfort. Comfort does not equal truth.

In ancient Greece people prayed to and worshipped Zeus and all of the other Gods. Do you believe that those Gods exist? Of course not...and nobody believes that they exist anymore. Yet, people back then emphatically believed; which means that they were wrong. They believed but they were wrong....a very profound realization about the gullibility and weakness of us humans.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372758 - 09/05/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'm actually a christian, though I've gotten lax in my adherence to the religion... mostly due to deeply ingrained habits that I lack the willpower to break.

I sometimes enjoy a good religious discussion but so often, especially on forums like this, they devolve into "fuck all religions!", "fuck all establishments!", "Fuck YOU!", or "you and everyone like you lacks the brains to think for yourselves".

It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372762 - 09/05/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I think masses of people walking around believing the Earth's 10,000 years old


:lol:  Most people dont believe that.  Most christians dont believe that.  Yea its a bad thing, but its a minority.  Now evolution on the other hand...disbelief in that is more mainstream, but still a minority.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Skunk420]
    #7372765 - 09/05/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Skunk420 said:
I worship nature now and beer. :smile:





:laugh:,, i'm the same.

And if there really is a God behind all the distorted bullshit i'm sure he'd be happy with our decision....

God most likely thinks religion sucks anyway.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372770 - 09/05/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
You may be right, its not the best thing to happen for these people.. but whos going to change it? There will be no revolution.

Id prefer to have tamed masses who scared of god rather than ignorant masses of free spirited shit starters with no morals or ethics. Maybe those are extremes though? And I guess its not a good thing... but again, how could it be changed?

:shrug: I guess its not really my problem




Religion does keep a lot of people in line.  It helps keep us a step above being savages.  That's all that it's good for.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372773 - 09/05/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I worship shrooms the most though...and LSD

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372783 - 09/05/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:I sometimes enjoy a good religious discussion but so often, especially on forums like this, they devolve into "fuck all religions!", "fuck all establishments!", "Fuck YOU!", or "you and everyone like you lacks the brains to think for yourselves".

It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself


Thats so true.  Im a devout non-christian, but I agree completely.  The worst is when people try to use religion as a scapegoat for wars and all of mans ills  :rolleyes:  Of course religious people often cite lack of faith as the cause of wars, etc.  The fact is neither of these are true.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372810 - 09/05/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself




Forgive me for being arrogant but I actually believe that I am presenting valid arguments as to why religions are flawed, man is flawed, truth and God's will is unknowable, and how all of spirituality is pointless because of these things.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372816 - 09/05/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


People should be sheep who don't ponder the questions of reality? People should blindly follow things without asking questions or without asking for evidence? People aren't allowed to be skeptics? People aren't allowed to criticize stupid behavior?





No, people should have a choice of whether or not they want to question those things. Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that. Not everyone gives a shit about these sorts of issues, certain people would rather spend time on their job, family and other time consuming hobbies. Religion merely offers convenience. Sometimes it will help and do a great deal of good and sometimes it does just the opposite..

Im not trying to promote religion here in any way. Im just trying to understand where these people are coming from.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372832 - 09/05/07 10:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
No, people should have a choice of whether or not they want to question those things. Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that. Not everyone gives a shit about these sorts of issues, certain people would rather spend time on their job, family and other time consuming hobbies. Religion merely offers convenience. Sometimes it will help and do a great deal of good and sometimes it does just the opposite..




I'm sorry, but if somebody decides to devote their life to a system of thought then they better damn know what it entails and they should have a grasp of what is going on.  I just can't respect people who choose the follow something and they don't think it through.  :shrug:

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372850 - 09/05/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I think that the system of thought is more for how to act in certain situations rather than knowing what happened at the beginning of the universe.

When I said 'Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that.' I was talking about subjects like the origin of the universe and such.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372862 - 09/05/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Im sorry but my job and my time consuming hobbies are no where near important enough to dismiss thought on where my soul will go. Entire civilazations are based on the belief of the soul trancending. Me chosing to brush off religion in favor of what kind of dividends i can make is well moronic.

Then again so is most of western philosophy.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (09/05/07 10:34 PM)

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372875 - 09/05/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself




Forgive me for being arrogant but I actually believe that I am presenting valid arguments as to why religions are flawed, man is flawed, truth and God's will is unknowable, and how all of spirituality is pointless because of these things.




That description was meant to apply to the more generic statements that I listed in my own post.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372886 - 09/05/07 10:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
I'm actually a christian, though I've gotten lax in my adherence to the religion... mostly due to deeply ingrained habits that I lack the willpower to break.

I sometimes enjoy a good religious discussion but so often, especially on forums like this, they devolve into "fuck all religions!", "fuck all establishments!", "Fuck YOU!", or "you and everyone like you lacks the brains to think for yourselves".

It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself




it's okay, im a pretty weak agnostic.  but dont get me wrong, im just as open to theism as i am to atheism.  i try to stay open minded, since i know that i dont know everything(or i at least i think i do :stars:).

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Religion does keep a lot of people in line.  It helps keep us a step above being savages.  That's all that it's good for.




i saw a video on YouTube about this and it talked about how christianity was almost the same as another religion that was around before christianity ever even popped up.  it talked about how the religions had nearly the same story.  it said something about how "jesus" and "christ" both meant something in this other language and they went with the story.

not sure if it was just some BS but it would be nice if someone could find it and link me to it since i cant seem to find it again.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7372889 - 09/05/07 10:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

I think masses of people walking around believing the Earth's 10,000 years old


:lol:  Most people dont believe that.  Most christians dont believe that.  Yea its a bad thing, but its a minority.




It's a huge minority,,, :lol: .
I was watching something recently,, it said the American president actually believes this stuff too.
Jesus fuckin christ !

No one's born religious,, do we really need someone who's so susceptible to this crap running one of the Earths most powerful countrys, haha.

Maybe he's just representing what the people behind him think's for the best,,, i don't know alot about American politics.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372892 - 09/05/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
Well, I think that the system of thought is more for how to act in certain situations rather than knowing what happened at the beginning of the universe.

When I said 'Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that.' I was talking about subjects like the origin of the universe and such.




But, when people ask about how we humans should conduct ourselves and what we should do we should ask where the legitimacy for these beliefs come from. Has God instituted a morality or a "right" and a "wrong" that undeniably dictates how we should act? Or are we acting a certain way not because of any perceived absolute truth but because we now have an affinity for civilization and in order to make things easier we often cooperate?

Yes, I can appreciate the fact that most mainstream religious beliefs make people less likely to steal my shit. But, we as free-thinking individuals should ponder why we act the way we do and what are the grounding principles behind our conduct and our personal beliefs.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372898 - 09/05/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, well thats you. I personally dont really care much for thinking about where my soul goes after I die.. all I care about is the fact that Im alive now and that Ive got to somehow make the best of it.

Everything I argued before this was not really my own view on the subject but rather an explanation of why I think that (most) religious beliefs should be tolerated. Ive just come to understand and accept the fact that most people like to live their lives without thinking for themselves all the time.

I hope im making sense, I tend to ramble when im this opiated.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372913 - 09/05/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Bush leans towards more fundamentalist beliefs, many of which are adamant about a literal interpretation of things that are usually meant as metaphorical expressions of a more general concept.

They read the Bible as though they're reading a textbook rather than understanding the fact that it is a philosophical writing and therefore attempts to convey extremely abstract concepts through metaphors and similes because conveying them literally is too difficult for such a widely diverse audience to all comprehend.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372918 - 09/05/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
i saw a video on YouTube about this and it talked about how christianity was almost the same as another religion that was around before christianity ever even popped up. it talked about how the religions had nearly the same story. it said something about how "jesus" and "christ" both meant something in this other language and they went with the story.

not sure if it was just some BS but it would be nice if someone could find it and link me to it since i cant seem to find it again.




There are all kinds of sordid details about the rise of Christianity; such as tons and tons of "books" being written by different Christian sects (a lot with conflicting stories) and certain theologians picking and choosing what went into the New Testament based on their own personal opinions. How can we trust that they made the right decisions? Did you know there's even a gospel of Judas that paints him in a positive light and declares that the other apostles were jealous of him because he was close to Jesus? This is in direct conflict with the accepted stories of Judas. What do we believe? What do we know is correct if imperfect and biased humans pick and choose what "God's word" is?

How can one trust religions when there is such blatant manipulation and imperfection apparent in them? The second that men put their hands in anything it becomes defiled.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372921 - 09/05/07 10:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

most people like to live their lives without thinking for themselves all the time.




Can you honestly call that living?

Quote:

But, when people ask about how we humans should conduct ourselves and what we should do we should ask where the legitimacy for these beliefs come from. Has God instituted a morality or a "right" and a "wrong" that undeniably dictates how we should act? Or are we acting a certain way not because of any perceived absolute truth but because we now have an affinity for civilization and in order to make things easier we often cooperate?




WEll if e always acted on our emotions, ie eye for an eye, we wouldent get very far. But if we realized hey maby i should just act nice instead of being a greedy ass hole, maby we can survive as a species.

I think the rest of religion is really just a comfort blanket created so we dont feel so alone.


--------------------

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Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372930 - 09/05/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372931 - 09/05/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Acyl said:
No, people should have a choice of whether or not they want to question those things. Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that. Not everyone gives a shit about these sorts of issues, certain people would rather spend time on their job, family and other time consuming hobbies. Religion merely offers convenience. Sometimes it will help and do a great deal of good and sometimes it does just the opposite..




I'm sorry, but if somebody decides to devote their life to a system of thought then they better damn know what it entails and they should have a grasp of what is going on.  I just can't respect people who choose the follow something and they don't think it through.  :shrug:




that's your problem. read your words carefully. "you" can't respect other people of this ilk, which is fine, but who are you to change their minds? who are you to "know" that they are better off without religion? don't you see how backwards your argument here is?

you assume to know that what you believe is less ridiculous than what religions teach. you think noah's ark is a bit far fetched?

this just in, we live on a rotating rock floating in a vacuum surrounded by eternity. go figure...

i am not religious, but i would be proud to defend intelligent and kind religious folk any day against ridiculous arguments like yours.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372935 - 09/05/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.




and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?

:rofl:


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
    #7372947 - 09/05/07 10:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I can understand what hes saying, it almost like not respecting a crack user because they dont understand what they are taking. They can go out and reaserch it and understand what it is and what it does, but they rather take the easy route and assume it will all be ok.

Sorta, but im kinda tipsy now.


--------------------

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“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372950 - 09/05/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I dont think you and I will ever come to an agreement on this subject..

You seem to have a view on the matter that screams "the system sucks, we need to change it to better ourselves in the long run"

As for me, im more of a "let it be, the people may not be living up to their full potential but they are alive and happy for the most part"

Quote:


Has God instituted a morality or a "right" and a "wrong" that undeniably dictates how we should act?




I think cultural standards and norms have set those for us over thousands of years. It now comes to us as a message from 'god' because  it is easy to reach the world through him.

Quote:


Or are we acting a certain way not because of any perceived absolute truth but because we now have an affinity for civilization and in order to make things easier we often cooperate?





We need to respect ourselves and each other if we are going to make it anywhere. I believe the message from god originally came from human beings who had mad respect for our species. Our message just became his message.

All thats different now is that the message from god has had to pass through what seems like the longest game of telephone in history. I can see how it could have become skewed a bit, but the general idea is the same, is it not?


Remember, Im not religious!:grin:


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372952 - 09/05/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
i saw a video on YouTube about this and it talked about how christianity was almost the same as another religion that was around before christianity ever even popped up. it talked about how the religions had nearly the same story. it said something about how "jesus" and "christ" both meant something in this other language and they went with the story.

not sure if it was just some BS but it would be nice if someone could find it and link me to it since i cant seem to find it again.




There are all kinds of sordid details about the rise of Christianity; such as tons and tons of "books" being written by different Christian sects (a lot with conflicting stories) and certain theologians picking and choosing what went into the New Testament based on their own personal opinions. How can we trust that they made the right decisions? Did you know there's even a gospel of Judas that paints him in a positive light and declares that the other apostles were jealous of him because he was close to Jesus? This is in direct conflict with the accepted stories of Judas. What do we believe? What do we know is correct if imperfect and biased humans pick and choose what "God's word" is?

How can one trust religions when there is such blatant manipulation and imperfection apparent in them? The second that men put their hands in anything it becomes defiled.




i guess i didn't really finish what i was going to type...

the video i watched was about how the romans(i think) copied the holy bible from another country at that time and used it to control their people. the country they stole(supposedly) it from was their enemy.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
    #7372953 - 09/05/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.




and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?

:rofl:




It's a fair observation. There is a lot of posturing by political candidates to seek the Christian votes by putting forth a deeply religious image of themselves that can be very false.

I don't know if I think Bush is faking it, though. His level of involvement with prominent figures in christianity is something that, frankly, I don't think he has the capacity to orchestrate as a farce.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372957 - 09/05/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And my parent have gone through every religion i can think of, as have my grand parents, they still dont have an offical religion.

Why, because they have beliefs that dont fit in a cookie cutter mold.

They chose to think about it and understand what they are following, do you blindly follow any other part of your life.

All Randall is saying is think for yourself, you are your own person, act like one.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
    #7372959 - 09/05/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
that's your problem. read your words carefully. "you" can't respect other people of this ilk, which is fine, but who are you to change their minds? who are you to "know" that they are better off without religion? don't you see how backwards your argument here is?




I'm not attempting to change their minds. I'm just calling them out for being naive, blind, and stupid; which they usually are.

Quote:

Syle said:
i am not religious, but i would be proud to defend intelligent and kind religious folk any day against ridiculous arguments like yours.




I think that when people proclaim to believe in something that they should understand the implications and principles of said beliefs. ....And this is ridiculous?

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372960 - 09/05/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

here's the video i was talking about...



...is it BS?

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372965 - 09/05/07 10:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I manage to juggle a very strong transcendentalist ideology with a Christian (reformist) theology.

However that does lead to it being insufferably difficult for me to encounter a congregation whose interpretation I can comfortably agree with.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
    #7372966 - 09/05/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.




and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?

:rofl:




I base my assumption off the fact that Republicans kiss ass to the Christians and the social conservatives when they need to get elected and when they get into office they promptly ignore this constituency and they do not do anything to advance their agenda.  Is abortion still legal?  Is gay marriage outlawed yet?  Are the elected Republicans doing much to advance the conservative Christian agenda?  Not really. 

They use them for votes and that's it pretty much.

Edited by RandalFlagg (09/05/07 11:07 PM)

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372967 - 09/05/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Do a google search on Pharmacratic Inquisition.

Lots of good info, tho you may want to do some of your own reasearch. Then you can only disprove yourself.


--------------------

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372972 - 09/05/07 11:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And thats why i firmly disagree with organized religion.

Ones faith is ones own.


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Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372981 - 09/05/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And i do agree with you Acyl. Make the most of the time we have, but do you really think that should be used on material posetions, or teaching our youth to be honest people? Love people, feed people.

I mean nothing they mean everything.

Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (09/05/07 11:04 PM)

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372990 - 09/05/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
You seem to have a view on the matter that screams "the system sucks, we need to change it to better ourselves in the long run"




Not at all. I'm not saying the "system sucks". I'm saying that truth is unknowable and us humans are so flawed that we could not consistently follow it anyway and this makes spirituality a pointless pursuit. I do appreciate how religion keeps people in line...but that's about it. Other than that it is a waste of time and a way to occupy the weak's minds.


Quote:

Acyl said:
We need to respect ourselves and each other if we are going to make it anywhere.




Cooperation for mutual benefit is not divinely inspired truth. It is human-inspired selfishness.

Quote:

Acyl said:
I believe the message from god originally came from human beings who had mad respect for our species. Our message just became his message.




So, in other words religion and religious ideas are just made up? They were dreamed up as a way to get people to fall in line because of proposed heavenly rewards and hellish punishments that acted as incentives?

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373006 - 09/05/07 11:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


So, in other words religion and religious ideas are just made up? They were dreamed up as a way to get people to fall in line because of proposed heavenly rewards and hellish punishments that acted as incentives?





I believe that to be the case, yes. You certainly cant dismiss it as a possibility even if you dont agree with it.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7373025 - 09/05/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
Quote:


So, in other words religion and religious ideas are just made up? They were dreamed up as a way to get people to fall in line because of proposed heavenly rewards and hellish punishments that acted as incentives?





I believe that to be the case, yes. You certainly cant dismiss it as a possibility even if you dont agree with it.




Of course it's a possibility but I did not envision that you believed it or that you would admit it.

So, basically you believe that religious beliefs are made up, that they have no legitimacy, and that they have no tie to any "absolute truth"? But, because they act to keep people in line they serve a purpose; even if it is all false?

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7373047 - 09/05/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
Quote:

Syle said:
Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.




and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?

:rofl:




It's a fair observation. There is a lot of posturing by political candidates to seek the Christian votes by putting forth a deeply religious image of themselves that can be very false.

I don't know if I think Bush is faking it, though. His level of involvement with prominent figures in christianity is something that, frankly, I don't think he has the capacity to orchestrate as a farce.




I had similar thoughts to Randal,, but i don't know nearly enough about the topic to back up where those ideas come from.

It's most likely an opinion, that was based on someone else's opinion, that was presented in a certain way,,,, :shrug: .

That's probably true for a lot of ideas but you know what i mean,, :grin:.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373048 - 09/05/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Wait, what?

Im just saying that I dont believe religious beliefs stemmed from any sort of paranormal happenings. I guess I cant really say that its fake, its just tough for me to believe god spoke to someone and told them how they should be acting. I dont believe in god.

It seems more reasonable to me that it was made up by us humans.. what the real motive was, I have no idea. Maybe someone took a few too many shrooms one day and felt they were enlightened.. fuck!


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373062 - 09/05/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly i think you two got off the topic, its not about religion. Its about caring for the dude next to you. You dont have to, and if you dont you can get that little bit ahead. But then hes gonna think the same, then the whole world dissolves into eye for an eye.

The whole point i just a few simple guidelines, not rules but guidelnes. Most call it the moral law, morality, ect.

That is all religion was supposed to be all the othe shit is just that SHIT. FUCK IT.

Beliving in budda, or jesus or the allibama isnt going to teach you how to act like a senseible logical humane creature.

Act like a civil person and everything else will fall in place, teach it to your kids and all that you know, through your actions not your words.

Stop actiong like an ass trying to say that my way is better than yours, who gives a shit. Help an old lady across the street, pick up a pice of trash, something to agnowledge that you are not some greedy ass hole crack head.


--------------------

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Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7373066 - 09/05/07 11:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
Wait, what?

Im just saying that I dont believe religious beliefs stemmed from any sort of paranormal happenings. I guess I cant really say that its fake, its just tough for me to believe god spoke to someone and told them how they should be acting. I dont believe in god.

It seems more reasonable to me that it was made up by us humans.. what the real motive was, I have no idea. Maybe someone took a few too many shrooms one day and felt they were enlightened.. fuck!




If man made it up and it is not divinely inspired then it isn't true. If it isn't true then it has no legitimacy and should be taken with a grain of salt.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7373076 - 09/05/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


The whole point i just a few simple guidelines, not rules but guidelnes. Most call it the moral law, morality, ect.

That is all religion was supposed to be all the othe shit is just that SHIT. FUCK IT.





My thoughts exactly.

Religion isnt about believing in god, its about acting like a human being.

God just kinda found its way into the conversation lol


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7373084 - 09/05/07 11:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ThirdEyeOpening said:
Honestly i think you two got off the topic, its not about religion. Its about caring for the dude next to you. You dont have to, and if you dont you can get that little bit ahead. But then hes gonna think the same, then the whole world dissolves into eye for an eye.

The whole point i just a few simple guidelines, not rules but guidelnes. Most call it the moral law, morality, ect.




We should ponder where these feelings of cooperation and compassion came from. Are they from a divinely inspired mandate that has been infused in our species by an all-powerful creator? Are they present because pure chance caused by evolution has selected humans who developed emotions?

We have every right to ask where we came from, why we are here, why our nature is the way it is, and what are the guiding truths and principles (if any) to our actions.

Edited by RandalFlagg (09/05/07 11:42 PM)

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373089 - 09/05/07 11:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I dont understand that logic.

If these guidelines were made up by man thousands of years ago because it happened to be a general consensus.. what makes them so different from any sort of general consensus today?

Im confused with what youre trying to say :confused:

How did you come to associate truth with something divinely inspired?


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373095 - 09/05/07 11:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yes, i do not deny that we have every right to question where we came from, but in the process we should also learn to live together without destroying each other so we can find the answer...


If we cant learn to live together why live at all? But we are a species that can learn.

While i may not beleve in a Devine one perse, i do know that if we are on accedent we shouldent destroy ourselves just because there is no god...

Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (09/05/07 11:35 PM)

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7373109 - 09/05/07 11:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


We should ponder where these feelings of cooperation and compassion came from. Are they from a divinely inspired mandate that has been infused in our species by an all-powerful creator? Are they present because pure chance caused by evolution has selected humans who developed emotions?

We have every right to ask where we came from, why we are here, why our nature is the way it is, and what are the guiding truths and principles (if any) to our actions?





Ok I think this explains what I didnt understand

Its getting way off tangent also..


I believe that altruistic behaviour was helpful in perpetuating our species. The idea that it happened by pure chance wouldnt really make sense, we've evolved to be able to think for our selves and realize that we're all in this together.

I suppose god could have something to do with it, but I just think that believing in god only gives people an easy way to explain things.

Why are we here? God
What created the universe? God

etc

Shit, the physics explanation that will surely pop up years down the road would be more interesting, dont you think?


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7373114 - 09/05/07 11:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
I dont understand that logic.

If these guidelines were made up by man thousands of years ago because it happened to be a general consensus.. what makes them so different from any sort of general consensus today?




General consensus comes from men. Men are imperfect therefore anything coming from men (even the majority of men) cannot lay claim to being "right" or "truth".

Two hundred years ago it was quite acceptable to own slaves and most Americans had no problem with it. Were they right? Most Germans though it was perfectly acceptable for the Nazi regime to invade neighboring countries in order to expand the Third Reich. Were they right? Throughout history it has been common for people to attack other people who were different from them or who had competing interests. Were they right? You claim that men have come to a "consensus" on right and wrong. Yet, most men will conveniently ignore this supposed consensus when it suits their purposes.

Quote:

Acyl said:
How did you come to associate truth with something divinely inspired?




Men are incapable of producing or recognizing truth and right because we are so flawed and because we have differing opinions. Therefore, only a naturally occurring phenomenon that is intrinsic in nature or a divinely inspired mandate meet the requirements to be termed "truth".

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373132 - 09/05/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I suppose youve got a point there.


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7373158 - 09/05/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
I believe that altruistic behaviour was helpful in perpetuating our species. The idea that it happened by pure chance wouldnt really make sense, we've evolved to be able to think for our selves and realize that we're all in this together.




It is entirely possible that compassion, caring, and love came about by pure chance. Evolution favors characteristics that favor the propagating of one's species. If certain creatures started to develop emotions and "bonds" with others then it is feasible that such caring lended itself to tighter social bonds which made survival easier and the descendents of these creatures are us modern humans.

If this is the case, such altruistic inclinations are a naturally occurring phenomenon that deserve some recognition as being intrinsic in our species. But, it is not entirely overriding and constant in our species as can be evidenced by war, selfishness, and greed. Thus, it is not %100 perfect and correct and it can be disregarded. Only a divinely inspired and instituted truth can be termed "absolute".

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7373165 - 09/05/07 11:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think about this shit all day long and I have reached the logical conclusion of my beliefs. I have my entire argument for the refutation of God, Man, morality, spirituality, philosophy, and existence in my head. It is a logical and ascerbic nihlism which is eating away at my soul but it is irrefutable.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373166 - 09/05/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Plenty of other species display compassion and caring. Generally, only people who dont believe in evolution think this is a uniquely human characteristic.

Any species will adapt to violence and compassion only in as much as it helps propagation. Well, that my opnion...

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7373179 - 09/06/07 12:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If propagation is the guiding framework of our species and it is what selects beneficial behaviors then there is no absolute right or wrong or morality. We merely exist and we merely seek to survive and reproduce.

This is a refutation of God.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373186 - 09/06/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This is a refutation of God.


No, its only a refutation of the christian god, who is only one of infinatly many incarnations that god could be.

Perhaps there is a god that created the universe, but he doesnt care about us as there are more important things. It could be that we dont have souls, there is no heaven or hell, but there is still a creator who caused the big bang.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7373189 - 09/06/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And if you reject God then there is no verifiable purpose. If there is no purpose then are you capable of existing with contentedness? Can you be fulfilled and happy without any guiding framework that is irrefutable? Some people can excel in such nihilism and nothingness. I cannot. I do not know what to do.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7373202 - 09/06/07 12:12 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

This is a refutation of God.




No, its only a refutation of the christian god, who is only one of infinatly many incarnations that god could be.

Perhaps there is a god that created the universe, but he doesnt care about us as there are more important things. It could be that we dont have souls, there is no heaven or hell, but there is still a creator who caused the big bang.




True. There are a million possibilities. It is possible that an intelligence caused our reality to come into being but that He has not instituted an absolute truth or a morality. It is possible that the creator only watches or that He doesn't watch at all. To be honest, we just don't know what the nature of our origins are or what the nature of the alleged creator is. Even if we saw some type of evidence our brains would be too puny to even begin to comprehend it. So, absolute truth is unknowable and everything is irrelevant in regards to it.

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373215 - 09/06/07 12:15 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

And if you reject God then there is no verifiable purpose.
Why? I dont think that is the case. Thats what most people believe, but I see no reason that lack of god necessitates lack of purpose. Nor does lack of god necessitate lack of 'guiding framework that is irrefutable'. That can exist without god. If it cant, then why?

EDIT - To be honest, we just don't know what the nature of our origins are or what the nature of the alleged creator is. Even if we saw some type of evidence our brains would be too puny to even begin to comprehend it. I agree, which is why I reject atheism and faith alike. The only scientifically sound belief is agnostic. But, then I am a scientific guy and generally reject spirituality and the like.

Edited by Qubit (09/06/07 12:17 AM)

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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7373231 - 09/06/07 12:22 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I see no reason that lack of god necessitates lack of purpose. Nor does lack of god necessitate lack of 'guiding framework that is irrefutable'. That can exist without god. If it cant, then why?




I have stated in previous posts that only a divine mandate from an omnipotent creator is capable of nearing perfection and only perfection can provide a framework for what is right. Only what is right should be used as a framework for purpose. If you decide to use your own opinions or human-inspired opinions in order to guide your actions then you cannot claim righteousness. You can however claim purpose....your own purpose. Some people have the strength to do such things. I do not. I need an undeniable path that is greater than myself and my species in order to tell me what to do. If I do not have that then I realize that I am alone and that I can never know truth. Therefore, I will pursue self-destruction and nihilism.

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7373255 - 09/06/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I have stated in previous posts that only a divine mandate from an omnipotent creator is capable of nearing perfection and only perfection can provide a framework for what is right.
Well, saying that doesnt make it so.  I have never seen any evidence supporting that case (hence the 'why?' at the end, which you didnt answer:smirk:).  Thats just philosophy that people make up in their head.  Sure it sounds like its true, but that doesnt really mean anything.  I have seen many times where what one thinks is true, or what seems to be true is in fact not true at all.

Anyways, not trying to belittle your beliefs or win you over.  Im gonna leave it at that, as I dont really like debating religion or philosophy (science and politics FTW)

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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7373462 - 09/06/07 02:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

After what I have evidenced and the fanatics I have encountered, I am convinced it is a thought disorder.

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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 24 days
Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: bukkake]
    #7373490 - 09/06/07 03:39 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

everythings a streamline of psychoses man

religion is psychosis
drugs are psychoses
love is psychosis
politics is psychosis
etc

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