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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
#7372930 - 09/05/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7372931 - 09/05/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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RandalFlagg said:
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Acyl said: No, people should have a choice of whether or not they want to question those things. Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that. Not everyone gives a shit about these sorts of issues, certain people would rather spend time on their job, family and other time consuming hobbies. Religion merely offers convenience. Sometimes it will help and do a great deal of good and sometimes it does just the opposite..
I'm sorry, but if somebody decides to devote their life to a system of thought then they better damn know what it entails and they should have a grasp of what is going on. I just can't respect people who choose the follow something and they don't think it through.
that's your problem. read your words carefully. "you" can't respect other people of this ilk, which is fine, but who are you to change their minds? who are you to "know" that they are better off without religion? don't you see how backwards your argument here is?
you assume to know that what you believe is less ridiculous than what religions teach. you think noah's ark is a bit far fetched?
this just in, we live on a rotating rock floating in a vacuum surrounded by eternity. go figure...
i am not religious, but i would be proud to defend intelligent and kind religious folk any day against ridiculous arguments like yours.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh
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Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7372935 - 09/05/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said: I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.
and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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ThirdEyeOpening
Lost In My Head
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 2,287
Loc: How the fuck should i kno...
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
#7372947 - 09/05/07 10:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can understand what hes saying, it almost like not respecting a crack user because they dont understand what they are taking. They can go out and reaserch it and understand what it is and what it does, but they rather take the easy route and assume it will all be ok.
Sorta, but im kinda tipsy now.
-------------------- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former. -Einstein Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -Stephen Roberts
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning
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Posts: 4,472
Loc: N.W.T.
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7372950 - 09/05/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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I dont think you and I will ever come to an agreement on this subject..
You seem to have a view on the matter that screams "the system sucks, we need to change it to better ourselves in the long run"
As for me, im more of a "let it be, the people may not be living up to their full potential but they are alive and happy for the most part"
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Has God instituted a morality or a "right" and a "wrong" that undeniably dictates how we should act?
I think cultural standards and norms have set those for us over thousands of years. It now comes to us as a message from 'god' because it is easy to reach the world through him.
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Or are we acting a certain way not because of any perceived absolute truth but because we now have an affinity for civilization and in order to make things easier we often cooperate?
We need to respect ourselves and each other if we are going to make it anywhere. I believe the message from god originally came from human beings who had mad respect for our species. Our message just became his message.
All thats different now is that the message from god has had to pass through what seems like the longest game of telephone in history. I can see how it could have become skewed a bit, but the general idea is the same, is it not?
Remember, Im not religious!
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LayYouIn
Taurus
Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7372952 - 09/05/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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RandalFlagg said:
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LayYouIn said: i saw a video on YouTube about this and it talked about how christianity was almost the same as another religion that was around before christianity ever even popped up. it talked about how the religions had nearly the same story. it said something about how "jesus" and "christ" both meant something in this other language and they went with the story.
not sure if it was just some BS but it would be nice if someone could find it and link me to it since i cant seem to find it again.
There are all kinds of sordid details about the rise of Christianity; such as tons and tons of "books" being written by different Christian sects (a lot with conflicting stories) and certain theologians picking and choosing what went into the New Testament based on their own personal opinions. How can we trust that they made the right decisions? Did you know there's even a gospel of Judas that paints him in a positive light and declares that the other apostles were jealous of him because he was close to Jesus? This is in direct conflict with the accepted stories of Judas. What do we believe? What do we know is correct if imperfect and biased humans pick and choose what "God's word" is?
How can one trust religions when there is such blatant manipulation and imperfection apparent in them? The second that men put their hands in anything it becomes defiled.
i guess i didn't really finish what i was going to type...
the video i watched was about how the romans(i think) copied the holy bible from another country at that time and used it to control their people. the country they stole(supposedly) it from was their enemy.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
#7372953 - 09/05/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
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RandalFlagg said: I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.
and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?
It's a fair observation. There is a lot of posturing by political candidates to seek the Christian votes by putting forth a deeply religious image of themselves that can be very false.
I don't know if I think Bush is faking it, though. His level of involvement with prominent figures in christianity is something that, frankly, I don't think he has the capacity to orchestrate as a farce.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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ThirdEyeOpening
Lost In My Head
Registered: 08/24/04
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Loc: How the fuck should i kno...
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And my parent have gone through every religion i can think of, as have my grand parents, they still dont have an offical religion.
Why, because they have beliefs that dont fit in a cookie cutter mold.
They chose to think about it and understand what they are following, do you blindly follow any other part of your life.
All Randall is saying is think for yourself, you are your own person, act like one.
-------------------- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former. -Einstein Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -Stephen Roberts
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
#7372959 - 09/05/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Syle said: that's your problem. read your words carefully. "you" can't respect other people of this ilk, which is fine, but who are you to change their minds? who are you to "know" that they are better off without religion? don't you see how backwards your argument here is?
I'm not attempting to change their minds. I'm just calling them out for being naive, blind, and stupid; which they usually are.
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Syle said: i am not religious, but i would be proud to defend intelligent and kind religious folk any day against ridiculous arguments like yours.
I think that when people proclaim to believe in something that they should understand the implications and principles of said beliefs. ....And this is ridiculous?
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LayYouIn
Taurus
Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
#7372960 - 09/05/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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here's the video i was talking about...
...is it BS?
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
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Last seen: 10 months, 14 days
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I manage to juggle a very strong transcendentalist ideology with a Christian (reformist) theology.
However that does lead to it being insufferably difficult for me to encounter a congregation whose interpretation I can comfortably agree with.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Posts: 15,608
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Syle]
#7372966 - 09/05/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
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RandalFlagg said: I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.
and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?
I base my assumption off the fact that Republicans kiss ass to the Christians and the social conservatives when they need to get elected and when they get into office they promptly ignore this constituency and they do not do anything to advance their agenda. Is abortion still legal? Is gay marriage outlawed yet? Are the elected Republicans doing much to advance the conservative Christian agenda? Not really.
They use them for votes and that's it pretty much.
Edited by RandalFlagg (09/05/07 11:07 PM)
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ThirdEyeOpening
Lost In My Head
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 2,287
Loc: How the fuck should i kno...
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
#7372967 - 09/05/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do a google search on Pharmacratic Inquisition.
Lots of good info, tho you may want to do some of your own reasearch. Then you can only disprove yourself.
-------------------- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former. -Einstein Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -Stephen Roberts
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ThirdEyeOpening
Lost In My Head
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 2,287
Loc: How the fuck should i kno...
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
#7372972 - 09/05/07 11:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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And thats why i firmly disagree with organized religion.
Ones faith is ones own.
-------------------- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former. -Einstein Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -Stephen Roberts
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ThirdEyeOpening
Lost In My Head
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 2,287
Loc: How the fuck should i kno...
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
#7372981 - 09/05/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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And i do agree with you Acyl. Make the most of the time we have, but do you really think that should be used on material posetions, or teaching our youth to be honest people? Love people, feed people.
I mean nothing they mean everything.
Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (09/05/07 11:04 PM)
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
#7372990 - 09/05/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acyl said: You seem to have a view on the matter that screams "the system sucks, we need to change it to better ourselves in the long run"
Not at all. I'm not saying the "system sucks". I'm saying that truth is unknowable and us humans are so flawed that we could not consistently follow it anyway and this makes spirituality a pointless pursuit. I do appreciate how religion keeps people in line...but that's about it. Other than that it is a waste of time and a way to occupy the weak's minds.
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Acyl said: We need to respect ourselves and each other if we are going to make it anywhere.
Cooperation for mutual benefit is not divinely inspired truth. It is human-inspired selfishness.
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Acyl said: I believe the message from god originally came from human beings who had mad respect for our species. Our message just became his message.
So, in other words religion and religious ideas are just made up? They were dreamed up as a way to get people to fall in line because of proposed heavenly rewards and hellish punishments that acted as incentives?
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning
Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 4,472
Loc: N.W.T.
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7373006 - 09/05/07 11:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
So, in other words religion and religious ideas are just made up? They were dreamed up as a way to get people to fall in line because of proposed heavenly rewards and hellish punishments that acted as incentives?
I believe that to be the case, yes. You certainly cant dismiss it as a possibility even if you dont agree with it.
-------------------- 1 ,2
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Posts: 15,608
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
#7373025 - 09/05/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acyl said:
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So, in other words religion and religious ideas are just made up? They were dreamed up as a way to get people to fall in line because of proposed heavenly rewards and hellish punishments that acted as incentives?
I believe that to be the case, yes. You certainly cant dismiss it as a possibility even if you dont agree with it.
Of course it's a possibility but I did not envision that you believed it or that you would admit it.
So, basically you believe that religious beliefs are made up, that they have no legitimacy, and that they have no tie to any "absolute truth"? But, because they act to keep people in line they serve a purpose; even if it is all false?
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Mike_yy
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 7,253
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
#7373047 - 09/05/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said:
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Syle said:
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RandalFlagg said: I think that Bush (and most other conservatives) kiss ass to the Christians just to get their votes and support...not because they actually give a shit about the beliefs in general.
and you base that assumption off...of...what exactly? just your gut?
It's a fair observation. There is a lot of posturing by political candidates to seek the Christian votes by putting forth a deeply religious image of themselves that can be very false.
I don't know if I think Bush is faking it, though. His level of involvement with prominent figures in christianity is something that, frankly, I don't think he has the capacity to orchestrate as a farce.
I had similar thoughts to Randal,, but i don't know nearly enough about the topic to back up where those ideas come from.
It's most likely an opinion, that was based on someone else's opinion, that was presented in a certain way,,,, .
That's probably true for a lot of ideas but you know what i mean,, .
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning
Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 4,472
Loc: N.W.T.
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7373048 - 09/05/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wait, what?
Im just saying that I dont believe religious beliefs stemmed from any sort of paranormal happenings. I guess I cant really say that its fake, its just tough for me to believe god spoke to someone and told them how they should be acting. I dont believe in god.
It seems more reasonable to me that it was made up by us humans.. what the real motive was, I have no idea. Maybe someone took a few too many shrooms one day and felt they were enlightened.. fuck!
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