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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372755 - 09/05/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
If you claim that people are dumb because they are following the teachings of a religion blindly you should consider yourself a bigger dumbass for blindly paying taxes to a government that spends all its money on a bullshit war.




As I clearly said, the belief in an omnipotent creator who has instituted tenets of right and wrong and who is responsible for our existence is an incredibly profound belief. It is a belief that one must be wise and dedicated in order to properly engage in. Most religious people are not wise or dedicated; most halfass their beliefs, only believe because they know nothing else, or because they fear the unknown.

Quote:

Acyl said:
So what if they dont think for themselves when they need to resolve an ethical problem? They shouldnt be labeled lazy. Theyre just following a system they that feel works for them. And for the most part it does, its not really doing them any harm so who gives a shit. They get by in life just fine and are happy with their lives. Anyone trying to 'free' them will only really end up hurting them.




People should be sheep who don't ponder the questions of reality? People should blindly follow things without asking questions or without asking for evidence? People aren't allowed to be skeptics? People aren't allowed to criticize stupid behavior?

Quote:

Acyl said:
Also, what harsh realities of the world are you speaking about?




When faced with pain, dissapointment, frustration, etc.. it is easy to immediately turn to an ideal and paternal God figure who offers you solace, guidance, and promised rewards. It provides comfort. Comfort does not equal truth.

In ancient Greece people prayed to and worshipped Zeus and all of the other Gods. Do you believe that those Gods exist? Of course not...and nobody believes that they exist anymore. Yet, people back then emphatically believed; which means that they were wrong. They believed but they were wrong....a very profound realization about the gullibility and weakness of us humans.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372758 - 09/05/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'm actually a christian, though I've gotten lax in my adherence to the religion... mostly due to deeply ingrained habits that I lack the willpower to break.

I sometimes enjoy a good religious discussion but so often, especially on forums like this, they devolve into "fuck all religions!", "fuck all establishments!", "Fuck YOU!", or "you and everyone like you lacks the brains to think for yourselves".

It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372762 - 09/05/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I think masses of people walking around believing the Earth's 10,000 years old


:lol:  Most people dont believe that.  Most christians dont believe that.  Yea its a bad thing, but its a minority.  Now evolution on the other hand...disbelief in that is more mainstream, but still a minority.

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InvisibleMike_yy
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Skunk420]
    #7372765 - 09/05/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Skunk420 said:
I worship nature now and beer. :smile:





:laugh:,, i'm the same.

And if there really is a God behind all the distorted bullshit i'm sure he'd be happy with our decision....

God most likely thinks religion sucks anyway.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372770 - 09/05/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
You may be right, its not the best thing to happen for these people.. but whos going to change it? There will be no revolution.

Id prefer to have tamed masses who scared of god rather than ignorant masses of free spirited shit starters with no morals or ethics. Maybe those are extremes though? And I guess its not a good thing... but again, how could it be changed?

:shrug: I guess its not really my problem




Religion does keep a lot of people in line.  It helps keep us a step above being savages.  That's all that it's good for.

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InvisibleSkunk420
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372773 - 09/05/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I worship shrooms the most though...and LSD

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372783 - 09/05/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:I sometimes enjoy a good religious discussion but so often, especially on forums like this, they devolve into "fuck all religions!", "fuck all establishments!", "Fuck YOU!", or "you and everyone like you lacks the brains to think for yourselves".

It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself


Thats so true.  Im a devout non-christian, but I agree completely.  The worst is when people try to use religion as a scapegoat for wars and all of mans ills  :rolleyes:  Of course religious people often cite lack of faith as the cause of wars, etc.  The fact is neither of these are true.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372810 - 09/05/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself




Forgive me for being arrogant but I actually believe that I am presenting valid arguments as to why religions are flawed, man is flawed, truth and God's will is unknowable, and how all of spirituality is pointless because of these things.

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372816 - 09/05/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


People should be sheep who don't ponder the questions of reality? People should blindly follow things without asking questions or without asking for evidence? People aren't allowed to be skeptics? People aren't allowed to criticize stupid behavior?





No, people should have a choice of whether or not they want to question those things. Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that. Not everyone gives a shit about these sorts of issues, certain people would rather spend time on their job, family and other time consuming hobbies. Religion merely offers convenience. Sometimes it will help and do a great deal of good and sometimes it does just the opposite..

Im not trying to promote religion here in any way. Im just trying to understand where these people are coming from.


--------------------
:scrambled:

1 ,2

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372832 - 09/05/07 10:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
No, people should have a choice of whether or not they want to question those things. Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that. Not everyone gives a shit about these sorts of issues, certain people would rather spend time on their job, family and other time consuming hobbies. Religion merely offers convenience. Sometimes it will help and do a great deal of good and sometimes it does just the opposite..




I'm sorry, but if somebody decides to devote their life to a system of thought then they better damn know what it entails and they should have a grasp of what is going on.  I just can't respect people who choose the follow something and they don't think it through.  :shrug:

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372850 - 09/05/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I think that the system of thought is more for how to act in certain situations rather than knowing what happened at the beginning of the universe.

When I said 'Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that.' I was talking about subjects like the origin of the universe and such.


--------------------
:scrambled:

1 ,2

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372862 - 09/05/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Im sorry but my job and my time consuming hobbies are no where near important enough to dismiss thought on where my soul will go. Entire civilazations are based on the belief of the soul trancending. Me chosing to brush off religion in favor of what kind of dividends i can make is well moronic.

Then again so is most of western philosophy.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (09/05/07 10:34 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7372875 - 09/05/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself




Forgive me for being arrogant but I actually believe that I am presenting valid arguments as to why religions are flawed, man is flawed, truth and God's will is unknowable, and how all of spirituality is pointless because of these things.




That description was meant to apply to the more generic statements that I listed in my own post.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Konnrade]
    #7372886 - 09/05/07 10:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
I'm actually a christian, though I've gotten lax in my adherence to the religion... mostly due to deeply ingrained habits that I lack the willpower to break.

I sometimes enjoy a good religious discussion but so often, especially on forums like this, they devolve into "fuck all religions!", "fuck all establishments!", "Fuck YOU!", or "you and everyone like you lacks the brains to think for yourselves".

It's a parade of unoriginal thoughts that are based on emotional flaws older than religion itself




it's okay, im a pretty weak agnostic.  but dont get me wrong, im just as open to theism as i am to atheism.  i try to stay open minded, since i know that i dont know everything(or i at least i think i do :stars:).

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Religion does keep a lot of people in line.  It helps keep us a step above being savages.  That's all that it's good for.




i saw a video on YouTube about this and it talked about how christianity was almost the same as another religion that was around before christianity ever even popped up.  it talked about how the religions had nearly the same story.  it said something about how "jesus" and "christ" both meant something in this other language and they went with the story.

not sure if it was just some BS but it would be nice if someone could find it and link me to it since i cant seem to find it again.

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InvisibleMike_yy
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7372889 - 09/05/07 10:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

I think masses of people walking around believing the Earth's 10,000 years old


:lol:  Most people dont believe that.  Most christians dont believe that.  Yea its a bad thing, but its a minority.




It's a huge minority,,, :lol: .
I was watching something recently,, it said the American president actually believes this stuff too.
Jesus fuckin christ !

No one's born religious,, do we really need someone who's so susceptible to this crap running one of the Earths most powerful countrys, haha.

Maybe he's just representing what the people behind him think's for the best,,, i don't know alot about American politics.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372892 - 09/05/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Acyl said:
Well, I think that the system of thought is more for how to act in certain situations rather than knowing what happened at the beginning of the universe.

When I said 'Just not everyone chooses to question these things, theres nothign wrong with that.' I was talking about subjects like the origin of the universe and such.




But, when people ask about how we humans should conduct ourselves and what we should do we should ask where the legitimacy for these beliefs come from. Has God instituted a morality or a "right" and a "wrong" that undeniably dictates how we should act? Or are we acting a certain way not because of any perceived absolute truth but because we now have an affinity for civilization and in order to make things easier we often cooperate?

Yes, I can appreciate the fact that most mainstream religious beliefs make people less likely to steal my shit. But, we as free-thinking individuals should ponder why we act the way we do and what are the grounding principles behind our conduct and our personal beliefs.

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #7372898 - 09/05/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, well thats you. I personally dont really care much for thinking about where my soul goes after I die.. all I care about is the fact that Im alive now and that Ive got to somehow make the best of it.

Everything I argued before this was not really my own view on the subject but rather an explanation of why I think that (most) religious beliefs should be tolerated. Ive just come to understand and accept the fact that most people like to live their lives without thinking for themselves all the time.

I hope im making sense, I tend to ramble when im this opiated.


--------------------
:scrambled:

1 ,2

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #7372913 - 09/05/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Bush leans towards more fundamentalist beliefs, many of which are adamant about a literal interpretation of things that are usually meant as metaphorical expressions of a more general concept.

They read the Bible as though they're reading a textbook rather than understanding the fact that it is a philosophical writing and therefore attempts to convey extremely abstract concepts through metaphors and similes because conveying them literally is too difficult for such a widely diverse audience to all comprehend.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7372918 - 09/05/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
i saw a video on YouTube about this and it talked about how christianity was almost the same as another religion that was around before christianity ever even popped up. it talked about how the religions had nearly the same story. it said something about how "jesus" and "christ" both meant something in this other language and they went with the story.

not sure if it was just some BS but it would be nice if someone could find it and link me to it since i cant seem to find it again.




There are all kinds of sordid details about the rise of Christianity; such as tons and tons of "books" being written by different Christian sects (a lot with conflicting stories) and certain theologians picking and choosing what went into the New Testament based on their own personal opinions. How can we trust that they made the right decisions? Did you know there's even a gospel of Judas that paints him in a positive light and declares that the other apostles were jealous of him because he was close to Jesus? This is in direct conflict with the accepted stories of Judas. What do we believe? What do we know is correct if imperfect and biased humans pick and choose what "God's word" is?

How can one trust religions when there is such blatant manipulation and imperfection apparent in them? The second that men put their hands in anything it becomes defiled.

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Is religion a psychosis? [Re: Acyl]
    #7372921 - 09/05/07 10:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

most people like to live their lives without thinking for themselves all the time.




Can you honestly call that living?

Quote:

But, when people ask about how we humans should conduct ourselves and what we should do we should ask where the legitimacy for these beliefs come from. Has God instituted a morality or a "right" and a "wrong" that undeniably dictates how we should act? Or are we acting a certain way not because of any perceived absolute truth but because we now have an affinity for civilization and in order to make things easier we often cooperate?




WEll if e always acted on our emotions, ie eye for an eye, we wouldent get very far. But if we realized hey maby i should just act nice instead of being a greedy ass hole, maby we can survive as a species.

I think the rest of religion is really just a comfort blanket created so we dont feel so alone.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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