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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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"the truth is love"...
    #7344747 - 08/28/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I don't understand what society is suppose to be, why are we here talking to eachother and communicating. It seems like we are just here dancing in our confusion, trying to figure out ourselves and others. It is so confusing though when I see myself and then I see myself as I am through one person's eyes, or two person's eyes and I'm trying to figure out how their perception can be as valid as mine.

I think we are one thing trying to evolve, but we can only go as fast as the end of us will follow. I have little doubt that some on this Earth are much more advanced than others in their degree of love.

Life is a battle between habit and novelty, fear and love. We are trying to escape history but at the same time the fact that history exists is troublesome. Did the medieval age really exist? People living for 20 years in terrible conditions and then getting brutally murdered? The future is going to get better and better but only if we escape history... and if we don't, then we're living in the past and the past is never as good as what's present.

We are suppose to surrender our knowing so as to better follow the path of what is suppose to happen. But when we do this we might find that the rest of humanity is fucking confused and they are not doing what is suppose to happen, but we dont even know what that is and we begin to doubt and think "well maybe nothing was ever suppose to happen" and we die (but not really die, just stagnate) and this surely doesn't help.

We are somewhere between the beginning and end, the void and heaven. I think I understand heaven and hell now. The more love you can express and BE in this present moment, the higher you will rise to heaven, which is the most perfect thing, the thing that everything is growing to. And the less you accept this present moment, the more you become consumed by the past and the laws of the past, you become conditioned by "that which is not coming into being" - so you become dead and you are no longer creating new things.

Are we immortal? Are we mortal? Do we have to die in order to let go of the past? And when we are old, and we really DIE for the final time, what does that mean? I'm not suppose to know yet, I have a feeling "I" would be very dissapointed in myself if I did find out.


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Edited by EternalCowabunga (08/28/07 01:58 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7344835 - 08/28/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Lot's of questions without answers. Except the ones you make up for yourself.

The rest may just be survival and reproduction. Hard to tell.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345091 - 08/28/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Are there no answers though? When I make up answers for myself it seems like i'm not taking responsibility to love with all my being. I feel this is THE answer, to surrender free will to love. All this philosophizing and debating is an excuse not to face the truth, which can be very hard.

This isn't some meaningless distraction, this is REAL. Survival and reproduction? Of what?


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OfflineWScott
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345137 - 08/28/07 03:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Surrender free will to love? Why not willingly live love?

And I don't think we're going to come across any 'be all end all' answer anytime soon. Too many problems in the world right now (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, in the context of evolution). If there were an all encompassing answer then wouldn't all progression stop?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345289 - 08/28/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If the answer is love, progression could only move forth more efficiently.. that makes sense to me.

Why not willingly love life? I'm sure I have my reasons...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345385 - 08/28/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

I think we are one thing trying to evolve, but we can only go as fast as the end of us will follow.




What makes you think that?
Do you think that mass-evolution is what we should strive for? Is it something that came from your own mind or could it be that it's just an imprint?
Why should we stop ourselves from evolving, learning and becoming more aware of the wholeness of reality just because we're not on the same line with the rest of the people? In my opinion, this is only a social imprint and it doesn't come in relation with our immediate and undeniable reality. We exist, first and foremost, as individuals. So why not live our lives as individuals, making our own decisions, acknowledging our own priorities and, if possible (and if we choose to do so) make the best of it? Do we have the duty of waiting for "the others"? What exactly does that mean? And how do we establish that we are the ones that have to wait, since this would also imply that we might have some universal answers to life?
Each individual is living in their own rhythm and I think it's just fine the way it is. And that since this happens since we as living organisms exist, it means that somehow it is what actually "works".
I guess that what I am trying to say it that we are on the path of evolution even if we choose to see that or not. The difference is that, if we choose to become aware that we are on our own, then we can actually do some real changes. We only can change or own world and our own mentality, but the advantage of doing that is that each time we're being able to learn more and more and become more open to what's already there.

Quote:

Life is a battle between habit and novelty, fear and love.




Not true.
This in my opinion is similar to a religious approach on life.
The good old "good vs evil" game. Life is a battle between various "forces" only if we choose to look at life from that perspective. It is true that we have the tendency to do so, but that's mainly because this is the trend that we get from the general social views, which come from an exclusivist mind.
In fact habit and novelty, love and fear and all the other opposites and all part of who we are (and also everything in between). We all have habits and in the same time we  innovate, we all feel both love and fear. Only the quantities differ. Nevertheless, seeing them as being adversaries doesn't do any good. Why not trying to understand them and see where they come from, instead of setting our minds on only one side? I think that we can learn and evolve from everything, and denying the potential of one thing is putting a stop to our ability to understand. That's how that initial confusion and frustration sets in.

Quote:

We are trying to escape history but at the same time the fact that history exists is troublesome. Did the medieval age really exist? People living for 20 years in terrible conditions and then getting brutally murdered? The future is going to get better and better but only if we escape history... and if we don't, then we're living in the past and the past is never as good as what's present.




Again wrong.
Only by having the ability to understand the past and it's mechanism we are able to learn something, which in extent will help us from not repeating that same mistakes. Sure, you could argue and say ok then why do we keep repeating mistakes from the past? This is only because we are unable to interpret things right and also because we usually don't get the full, unobstructed story. Also because we are unable to make the connection between something we find out as a story and "real life". History and knowing what happened is not bad by itself, it can become destructive if we don't know how to use it.
Tell me, should drugs be illegal because some people behave irresponsible while under the influence? Of course not. I think that the same thing goes for history and to be quite honest, about anything else that we might encounter in life. It is all in how we use them, and if we know how to use them, they can come as a great aid in evolution.
Now getting back to history. The more we are able to understand from past events, the more aware and rational we become and this is empowering. This also helps us see how everything interconnects and in which manner. Which in extent will make us able to calculate the probabilities from the near or far future and choose the one which is most appealing to us and our growth. The path to knowing ourselves and everything around us is endless, and everything that exists can become a tool for progressing or regressing.

Quote:

We are suppose to surrender our knowing so as to better follow the path of what is suppose to happen.




No no no... how can that be?
I think that you're making a confusion between attachments and actually being able to hold a long and short term memory. This "knowing" that you're talking about sounds to me more like having preconceived ideas. Let me tell you that this not knowing and naming it like that can draw even more confusion.
Now, being all that said, let's get back to actual knowledge. How can it be "bad" for us? I think I already covered a big part of why knowing is good for us a little earlier. If we were to give up knowing, we would give thinking and then we'd go back to being cavemen or even much more way back on the steps of human evolution.
And what does the path of what is suppose to happen is anyways?  Is there even something like that? I think not. And in the formula you suggested (mixing it with giving up the knowing) it looks more like sort of becoming some inertia creeps.

Quote:

But when we do this we might find that the rest of humanity is fucking confused and they are not doing what is suppose to happen, but we dont even know what that is and we begin to doubt and think "well maybe nothing was ever suppose to happen" and we die (but not really die, just stagnate) and this surely doesn't help.




Again, what is supposed to happen? How do you know that there's something that's supposed to happen? This all sounds alarming to me. Yes, some people are confused. But this doesn't mean that they're so because they're not doing what "they should". Confusion comes from a lack of understanding which doesn't mean that there's a preset model of living life.
Using history (whether if you like it or not) will clearly show you that each time somebody tried co come up with a "should" the way you suggested, everything turned to even more confusion and fear. This, in my opinion, is something that we will have to avoid from happening right now or anywhere in the future. I came to this conclusion from trying to learn and understand history. :smirk:

Quote:

We are somewhere between the beginning and end, the void and heaven. I think I understand heaven and hell now. The more love you can express and BE in this present moment, the higher you will rise to heaven, which is the most perfect thing, the thing that everything is growing to. And the less you accept this present moment, the more you become consumed by the past and the laws of the past, you become conditioned by "that which is not coming into being" - so you become dead and you are no longer creating new things.




I don't agree with so much from it that I don't even know where to begin.
I think I already made a clear statement on why it is not the wisest move to see things in black and white (heaven - hell) and when this brings if we let in happen.
I agree that choosing to live a life of love and acceptance is something wonderful and that has been proved on repeated occasions to work on the path of personal growth, but I'll also have to specify that we can only become accepting if we are in the Know. And if we choose to learn from the past (something I also talked about earlier and don't feel like getting into it again). Knowing the past doesn't mean that we also have to identify with it.

Quote:

Are we immortal? Are we mortal? Do we have to die in order to let go of the past? And when we are old, and we really DIE for the final time, what does that mean? I'm not suppose to know yet, I have a feeling "I" would be very dissapointed in myself if I did find out.




Maybe you're not asking the right questions.
I mean... isn't it that all your questions stop you from living in the now, coming in contact with a full and direct experience and that they also create attachments? And doesn't it come in contradiction with one of your conclusions in which you stated that living in the Now is what expands our awareness and opens us up to love?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345436 - 08/28/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Are there no answers though? When I make up answers for myself it seems like i'm not taking responsibility to love with all my being. I feel this is THE answer, to surrender free will to love. All this philosophizing and debating is an excuse not to face the truth, which can be very hard.

This isn't some meaningless distraction, this is REAL. Survival and reproduction? Of what?




You just demonstrated my point.:monkeydance: You have decided for everyone that love is THE answer. This is something you do not know but only believe.

You don't know what's REAL, that idea just sounds good to you so you have decided it's real.:tongue: Sorry, but the only thing that seems absolutely necessary for humanity is surviving long enough to reproduce. I'm not saying this is the meaning to life but I'm not arrogant enough to postulate as "the meaning" anything that my limited and finite mind decides.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7345508 - 08/28/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you for your reply, MushroomTrip, I will answer the points you brought up.

From my understanding, mass-evolution is already happening but the fact that some individuals have done no work on themselves, and are basically unconscious, is creating a problem for those who want to move on. However, after reading your response I am ready to accept that this is not a problem, that those people waiting for the others are no better or how people "should be" it is simply their personal preference that people wake up, and should not influence my OWN perspective of myself.

On habit vs. novelty... I suppose nobody is totally free from habit otherwise they would not exist in this world, and even starting from the beginning again we would perhaps create preferences of interacting and start forming habits... the middle way, right?

I don't know what is suppose to happen, I just get this feeling sometimes that we are not doing it, that we are letting ourselves down. But I will have to not worry about it for now, because to worry about it brings what is not suppose to happen, and what is not suppose to happen is false. Nothing is suppose to happen then, just accept everything, even the fear and paranoia.

These questions inevitably do stop me from living in the now, I can even see how I detatch myself just by asking them. I guess I was just hoping that the answers would spring some presence in me, to break down the habits which I am stubbornly attatched to. Self-rejection is a silly thing.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345621 - 08/28/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I don't know what is suppose to happen, I just get this feeling sometimes that we are not doing it, that we are letting ourselves down. But I will have to not worry about it for now, because to worry about it brings what is not suppose to happen, and what is not suppose to happen is false. Nothing is suppose to happen then, just accept everything, even the fear and paranoia.




I think we all have the sensation, at some points and events of our lives, that some thing's not working that way "it should". It's human and I don't think that feeling bad or guilty or out of line for feeling this way is a solution. We can take it for what it is and see where it comes from. It obviously has a reason and a clear explanation and all we have to do is find it.
For my own observations of myself and those around me, we get that feeling mostly because we are unsatisfied with ourselves. I think that understanding this, no matter how used this concept might be, is essential because it coincides with the moment when we realize that it's only our issue, not everybody else's. And then we treat it the "right" way (as in treating ourselves, not the world). This not only bring us closer to who we really are, but it also provides with a different and more ample understanding on the entire structure of reality because we will be able to understand (and therefore act in consequence in an efficient and prompt way) those who try to impose their "shoulds" on us. Because we sort of know what was in our minds when we felt that something was wrong with the world. This way we can even have the chance (at least in some cases) to make others analyze their feelings which will set them on the path to knowing themselves and which also implies a change, an aware one. And this proves that we are able to make a difference in the world and that we're not just passive and submissive observers of life. That we interact and if we do it from a conscious place, the change in other becomes conscious too. :yesnod:

What I also noticed from my own observations is that we also get that feeling when we had a moment of expanded awareness and when we realized that things aren't working at their fullest capacity. And this is true. However, it doesn't mean that there's a common answer for everybody. We can take this new realization and use it in our favor by increasing our own determination into making the change we want to make with ourselves.  :psychsplit:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7345816 - 08/28/07 06:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What I also noticed from my own observations is that we also get that feeling when we had a moment of expanded awareness and when we realized that things aren't working at their fullest capacity. And this is true. However, it doesn't mean that there's a common answer for everybody. We can take this new realization and use it in our favor by increasing our own determination into making the change we want to make with ourselves. :psychsplit:




:smile2: :mushroom2:
Thank you, my attachment to having "one answer fit all" is starting to seem less useful... :smile:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "the truth is love"... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7346235 - 08/28/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
What I also noticed from my own observations is that we also get that feeling when we had a moment of expanded awareness and when we realized that things aren't working at their fullest capacity. And this is true. 




I think that when we have those moments of insight and expanded awareness, one senses the potential that lies within the present circumstance. The schism between this potential and the circumstance as it currently exists seems magnified by the nature of that moment, since one suddenly becomes aware and it seems extraordinary. The potential exists within every moment, of course.

The question of these "shoulds seems like individuals who sense the potential and feel that it is a preferable way for the circumstances to be, but don't realize the manners by which to produce the change necessary to manifest the potential. It is the difference between shaking your finger at a dog and saying "You should know how to sit", and actually training the dog to sit. :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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