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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Icelander]
    #7321864 - 08/22/07 04:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Will I have to go to bed early and without dessert?


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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 1,480
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321870 - 08/22/07 04:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I know people who have become more loving, compassionate, kind, wise and had there inner lives transformed and enriched by spiritual teachings.




By people, I am assuming you mean more than one. And if they in turn affected others, it would not take long to transform the planet, yet nothing has changed inwardly since the beginning of man.




true, but the point is our outwardly appearance and attachment to it has changed drastically. and this change has made us unaware of our internal process. with the help of masters it has been easier to become more aware of who we are, and has helped us to pick up the pace on our path to self-realization.


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321873 - 08/22/07 04:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The late, great Swami will make all things clear:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4660857#4660857


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Veritas]
    #7321878 - 08/22/07 04:05 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Nope, you all suck, too, and so do I.  I can't leave myself behind, so I'll have to tolerate my own humanity somehow.  :crazy:




I can honor your feelings here. You must follow your path with heart. Goodbye forever sweetheart. I will sell the boys at auction.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321880 - 08/22/07 04:05 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

just because our root has not changed does not mean we should give up trying to be more aware of it...


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321881 - 08/22/07 04:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Will I have to go to bed early and without dessert?




No, but you will prove yourself the lessor for not answering.:(


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Veritas]
    #7321901 - 08/22/07 04:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If I master a subject, does my mastery depend upon teaching it successfully to others? Does their failure to demonstrate mastery undermine my knowledge?



If you dedicate your life to passing on such knowledge and no one 'gets it', then yes you are an abject failure and should hang your head in shame.

Quote:


I will ask you again, since you failed to answer the first time: why is the internal state of others proof of the internal state of the Enlightened Master?



See answer # 2. Not all enlightened masters become teachers.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321919 - 08/22/07 04:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I did not ask whether the measure of my teaching ability was reflected in the mastery of my students, I asked whether my mastery was linked to their mastery.

Perhaps you meant to discuss the existence of valid Gurus?


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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321956 - 08/22/07 04:24 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

If I master a subject, does my mastery depend upon teaching it successfully to others? Does their failure to demonstrate mastery undermine my knowledge?



If you dedicate your life to passing on such knowledge and no one 'gets it', then yes you are an abject failure and should hang your head in shame.




:crazy::confused::banghead::ohwell::shrug:

:blazed:


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Veritas]
    #7321980 - 08/22/07 04:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It is nigh impossible to debate with those who have a reading disorder.

Opening post: "I think it reasonable to assume that no Enlightened Masters have ever existed or they existed and were unable to transmit any useful knowledge.

Is that really unclear? You keep trying to get me to respond to something I never wrote.


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7322007 - 08/22/07 04:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is nigh impossible to debate with those who have a reading disorder.




Fireworks_God, come here and stop these personalisms!  (or whatever the feck they are called... who really gives)

or do you just like to pick on me?  :eatadick:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: onlynow]
    #7322016 - 08/22/07 04:41 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I received a 30 second ban from FWG.


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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7322021 - 08/22/07 04:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is nigh impossible to debate with those who have a reading disorder.




it is impossible to debate with someone who ignores (or perhaps runs away from) half of my most important posts.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7322799 - 08/22/07 08:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I do not have a reading disorder.  Resorting to personalisms is the first sign of a lack of support for one's argument.

You clearly stated that any Enlightened Master who did not transmit his/her enlightenment to at least two others "sucked."  Also saying that they were "unable" to transmit knowledge assumes that it is possible to transmit enlightenment, and that the inability to do so was their failing. 

I keep trying to get you to respond to my question: What does the internal state of others have to do with the internal state of an Enlightened Master.  You have not answered me.  Your argument is based upon the claim that Enlightened Masters should be able to transmit their enlightened state to at least two others, or else they are not enlightened. 

Your hedge that not all Masters become teachers just doesn't cut it.  Do all Masters dedicate their life to transmitting enlightenment?  What of those who do not?  Is it even possible to teach someone else to reach enlightenment?

This is your last chance.  If you do not answer the question I wrote, and clarify your position that an Enlightened Master who does not transmit enlightenment to at least two others "sucks," I will have to invoke Icelander's Rule.


:rofl: :rofl2: :lol:

For the record, I don't believe that there have been or ever will be such people as "Enlightened Masters."  There have probably been a few humans who had a clue about the cosmic joke, most of the time, but the rest of the stories are mythology.  :grin:


Edited by Veritas (08/22/07 08:43 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Veritas]
    #7323277 - 08/22/07 10:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

There have probably been a few humans who had a clue about the cosmic joke,

The late R.A.W. for one.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Veritas]
    #7323910 - 08/23/07 01:18 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I do not have a reading disorder. Resorting to personalisms is the first sign of a lack of support for one's argument.



Where did I state that YOU have a reading disorder? I made a factual generalized statement about the oft-times difficulty of debate.

Of course, if you are seeing things not written - well...

Quote:

You clearly stated that any Enlightened Master who did not transmit his/her enlightenment to at least two others "sucked."




EM: "I am so in touch with cosmic wisdom that I am unable to see the futility in trying to transmit such cosmic wisdom."

Perhaps you have a better choice of word than 'sucked'.


Also saying that they were "unable" to transmit knowledge assumes that it is possible to transmit enlightenment, and that the inability to do so was their failing.
Their inability to either do the possible or attempt the impossible certainly speaks of some sort of failing.

Quote:

Your argument is based upon the claim that Enlightened Masters should be able to transmit their enlightened state to at least two others, or else they are not enlightened.



Einstein and Newton and others transmitted their knowledge to masses of people which changed the world. If an enlightened master spend his entire life trying to awaken others and is unable, then there is a strong likelihood he was delusional about either his internal state or his abilities as a teacher.

Y
Quote:

our hedge that not all Masters become teachers just doesn't cut it.



It doesn't? Are there not amazing world class athletes or brilliant artisans who have no desire to teach or coach?

Quote:

Do all Masters dedicate their life to transmitting enlightenment?



Unknown.

Quote:

What of those who do not? Is it even possible to teach someone else to reach enlightenment?



Apparently not, but books, seminars schools, cults, etc. keep sprouting up to no positive affect.

Quote:

For the record, I don't believe that there have been or ever will be such people as "Enlightened Masters."



I see. You are just ball-busting rather than trying to have a serious discussion. How enlightened!


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7324618 - 08/23/07 08:46 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I do not have a reading disorder. Resorting to personalisms is the first sign of a lack of support for one's argument.



Where did I state that YOU have a reading disorder? I made a factual generalized statement about the oft-times difficulty of debate.

Of course, if you are seeing things not written - well...





Of course you didn't state it. That would be against the rules, so you simply insinuated it.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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