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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Icelander]
    #7318809 - 08/21/07 07:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

My Dear Ice Cube:

First off, you know me better'n dat.

Secondly, check when Buddha lived, then check to see when England became a nation.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7318817 - 08/21/07 07:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Minor details in this magical world. :fairy:  :voila:  :meatspace:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7319774 - 08/21/07 11:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Let us assume that several Enlightened Masters have walked the earth. Let us also assume that each one could have fully opened the eyes of at least two disciples in a span of thirty or so years so that the disciples themselves became Enlightened Masters.

If an Enlightened Master could not open the eyes of at least two other people then I would postulate that he/she totally sucked as a Master and should have his/her certificate revoked.

In the short span of a few thousand years due to the the Law of Doubling, the entire world would become enlightened, wars would cease and peace would reign on our planet and it would be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

However, as the maturity level of mankind seems to have been unaffected since we first made fire, I think it reasonable to assume that no Enlightened Masters have ever existed or they existed and were unable to transmit any useful knowledge.

Case closed. (Sorry Hue.)




What about Masters of the Flying Guillotine?

According to the law of doubling, if even one master of the flying guillotine ever walked the earth, we'd all be pretty dead by now. But we'd still be impressed, because "Man," we'd say, "That guy had a flying guillotine."

Seriously though, there's a huge fault in the notion that there is some kind of ultimate achievement, some kind of spiritual goal that everyone has to look toward. We're all just existing here, and the "enlightened" seem to realize that above all else: the point of existence is to appreciate the beauty of existence. There is no game, no prize for the person who dies the most "enlightened". Anyone who tells you otherwise is caught up in the same stupid game that produces the most damaging, unfulfilling aspects of all kinds of religious thought.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7320406 - 08/22/07 03:32 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Perhaps enlightenment cannot be "transmitted."




I stated that was a possibility. If this IS the case, then we can dispense with ALL religion, gurus, swamis (sorry, Swami), spiritual books, seminars, camps, ashrams, monasteries, churches, temples, synagogues, televangelistas, and priest-altar boy sex.

Now, who wants to be initiated?




I believe this is the case. But I believe you misunderstand the process. The things you listed are tools used in the process of attaining self-realization. They are not the direct transmission of enlightenment. Just because someone hands you a pen and a piece of paper, doesn't mean your homework is completed. It means you now have the tools to complete it yourself. Nobody else can do it for you, and this is why it cannot be transmitted.




i haven't read the rest of the thread, but this post alone is everything i wanted to say + more.

Orgone, your logic to me sounds obscure and your original post tells me you hardly have an understanding or experience of self-realization.

but of course that is just my perspective...

i'm "Ignorant, puerile, and a thief!", who would listen to my petty words?


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7320408 - 08/22/07 03:35 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Well that makes sense except for the fact that we do not know if there is such a thing as "enlightenment". Can you honestly say you have ever met an enlightened being? And if you say you have how did you determine this, not being enlightened yourself?




I don't think there is a final enlightened state.  I think there are degrees to enlightenment, meaning that I think some people not only have obtained certain philosophical knowledge, but they have also realized this knowledge to the point where they have indeed destroyed any existential anxiety within themselves.  I have met one person who I felt had reached this point.

Again, like I said in another thread, it doesn't matter.  Sometimes, the people in the "dream of everyday life" aka the unaware, live life more fully than those who have become aware, because those who become aware spend a lot of time trying to rid themselves of the anxiety they took upon by becoming aware.  Then, guess what, when they rid themselves of it, they return full circle back to the "dream of everyday life" style, but aware.  Is the journey even neccessary?  I don't know, and don't really care.  I say we need to get back to basics, and just enjoy life.

EDIT:  What I meant to type and forgot was that I don't think the term "enlightenment" is even neccessary.  It describes the path, the only path, and that path is life.  We are all enlightened, but some to a higher degree.  We are all living life, some in a more fullfilling fashion.  But regardless, we are all living life.




couldn't have said it better myself :thumbup:


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: onlynow]
    #7320412 - 08/22/07 03:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

wow this thread is full of life :sun:

/talks to myself summore


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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OfflineBoots
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: onlynow]
    #7320787 - 08/22/07 09:29 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

OrgoneConclusion, are we also assuming that peace is associated with enlightenment?


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7320800 - 08/22/07 09:41 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Do you even know what the word 'Buddha' means Orgone?

It is written down in a Sutra (really can't be bothered to find the citation) that the Buddha met a man on the road who asked questions like 'Are you a God' etc, to which Buddha answered 'No'. The man then asked something like 'Well what are you', the Buddha then replied 'I am awake'. You can choose yourself whether or not to accept whether this really took place, thats your choice. :shrug:


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Edited by Sinbad (08/22/07 10:04 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: onlynow]
    #7320864 - 08/22/07 10:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

onlynow said:
Orgone, your logic to me sounds obscure and your original post tells me you hardly have an understanding or experience of self-realization.





This forum is not the venue in which to make these types of statments - read the forum rules. Speculating as to the personal nature of other posters is agansit the rules and serve as a detriment to the discussion of the philosophical/spiritual ideas presented. Please take a note of this and act in accordance with this understanding in the future, thank you.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7320880 - 08/22/07 10:29 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

On a side-note, I believe Fireworks_god has just demonstrated proper use of the flying guillotine.



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Sinbad]
    #7321296 - 08/22/07 01:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

(Not just to Sinbad) As per usual, there is no real rebuttal to my point that the world has remained seemingly unaffected in any positive way from the teachings of any masters.

Most all of people of advanced civilizations can read, write and do basic math showing a real ability to learn and pass on knowledge, yet the 'spiritual' teachings are ineffectual on society-at-large after all this time.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: onlynow]
    #7321320 - 08/22/07 01:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i'm "Ignorant, puerile, and a thief!", who would listen to my petty words?




:shrug:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321388 - 08/22/07 01:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
(Not just to Sinbad) As per usual, there is no real rebuttal to my point that the world has remained seemingly unaffected in any positive way from the teachings of any masters.

Most all of people of advanced civilizations can read, write and do basic math showing a real ability to learn and pass on knowledge, yet the 'spiritual' teachings are ineffectual on society-at-large after all this time.



You forgot about all those 'one man religions' like christianity, moslemism, (budhism,) all those crazy gurus ending with *mahadhimhamidaha*, ah, let's also take Hitler and dictators into the game, uh and don't forget the pharaos.

Where people fail to get nature, they just impose some supernaturality.
(Which in fact can and could reflect back on the later perhaps made natural discoveries.)


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321392 - 08/22/07 01:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
(Not just to Sinbad) As per usual, there is no real rebuttal to my point that the world has remained seemingly unaffected in any positive way from the teachings of any masters.

Most all of people of advanced civilizations can read, write and do basic math showing a real ability to learn and pass on knowledge, yet the 'spiritual' teachings are ineffectual on society-at-large after all this time.




I really don't see how you can make such a blanket generalization. I know people who have become more loving, compassionate, kind, wise and had there inner lives transformed and enriched by spiritual teachings. The problem is that poisons such as greed, hatred and ignorance rule the majority of minds on this planet. Even the people who have less of this are usually too comfortable and complacent to act upon the bad things in the world. But this is no failing of spirituality. There are still many people that benefit form such teachings and go on to make a difference in the world, by teaching others a path to a more compassionate and wise life. As I said in an earlier post, not everyone is going to want to wake up, and alot of people have vested interests in hatred, greed and ignorance. This is how the world is. People are still waking up, its just a fact that it will never be the 'majority'. Its alot easier to stay asleep than it is to awaken.

My advice - quit passing off the blame onto spirituality when its a fact that in alot of cases it helps us to be better people, and at very least deters people from directly harming others.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Sinbad]
    #7321416 - 08/22/07 01:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I know people who have become more loving, compassionate, kind, wise and had there inner lives transformed and enriched by spiritual teachings.




By people, I am assuming you mean more than one. And if they in turn affected others, it would not take long to transform the planet, yet nothing has changed inwardly since the beginning of man.

You reinforced my point. Case closed.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321431 - 08/22/07 01:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I know people who have become more loving, compassionate, kind, wise and had there inner lives transformed and enriched by spiritual teachings.




By people, I am assuming you mean more than one. And if they in turn affected others, it would not take long to transform the planet, yet nothing has changed inwardly since the beginning of man.

You reinforced my point. Case closed.




Not that simple, people have to 'want' to wake up, and then act upon that intention. You can show a Donkey water, but you can't make it drink. Not everyone is going to want to wake up, not everyone has that inclination. People are very attached to there cages and have vested interests in greed, hatred and ignorance. Wise and compassionate people are not omnipotent. They can only teach the way to those who want to be taught.

BTW I love the way you only bother to quote a small section of my posts, and forget about the rest. How convienent.


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Edited by Sinbad (08/22/07 01:55 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Sinbad]
    #7321478 - 08/22/07 02:00 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:blah: :blah: :blah:

Why does esoterica ALWAYS require someone to apologize for the lack of observable phenomenon?

Something that is real and actually works never needs a spokesman to explain why it only kinda, sorta, maybe works sometimes if everything is perfectly aligned and the intent is pure.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321506 - 08/22/07 02:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
:blah: :blah: :blah:

Why does esoterica ALWAYS require someone to apologize for the lack of observable phenomenon?

Something that is real and actually works never needs a spokesman to explain why it only kinda, sorta, maybe works sometimes if everything is perfectly aligned and the intent is pure.




Who is apologizing? There is no apology. Awakening can never be forced on the mass populous. Of course individuals have to want to wake up and no-one can do it for them. Something that is real and actually works requires participation and effort. If someone has no interest in a spiritual path, in awakening, then how can they have participation and effort? :shrug:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7321510 - 08/22/07 02:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm...by this logic, shouldn't the existence of Michael Jordan result in a planet full of basketball gods within a few generations?  :wink:

Seriously, though, the path that leads inward is not one that many choose to follow.  We are primarily oriented towards survival, and secondarily oriented towards pleasure.  Once we have our survival needs met, we may spend the rest of our lifetime pursuing pleasure (and avoiding its' opposite--pain), without more than a passing thought about the Big Questions.

Those few who pursue answers (or guesses, as I prefer to call them :wink:), are unusual humans, indeed.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spiritual Masters and the Law of Doubling [Re: Veritas]
    #7321513 - 08/22/07 02:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Hmmm...by this logic, shouldn't the existence of Michael Jordan result in a planet full of basketball gods within a few generations?  :wink:

Seriously, though, the path that leads inward is not one that many choose to follow.  We are primarily oriented towards survival, and secondarily oriented towards pleasure.  Once we have our survival needs met, we may spend the rest of our lifetime pursuing pleasure (and avoiding its' opposite--pain), without more than a passing thought about the Big Questions.

Those few who pursue answers (or guesses, as I prefer to call them :wink:), are unusual humans, indeed.




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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