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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Everything you know is wrong.  [Re: TameMe]
#7307569 - 08/18/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TameMe said:
well first of all....your statement is a fallacy because you are claiming to know that you know nothing...meaning that you don't even know that you know nothing...so really....we don't know what is true or not....
so we aren't necessarily wrong.
how...does it help me be open minded? to me it seems like a dead end...and you can't be open to anything because it's not real.
First off, I claimed nothing. I asked a question.
So the idea is that we don't know.
Maybe every things a dead end for you. How do you know that nothing is real?
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 TameMe
Stranger
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7307589 - 08/18/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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so ....your subject line...that clearly states "Everything you know is wrong." is not a claim you were making?
i don't know that nothing (btw i said anything not nothing) is real...i'm speaking as if i held your belief....and that if everything was wrong...or false...then basically it is not real...but...maybe that wasn't the right word to use.
Edited by TameMe (08/18/07 01:02 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: TameMe]
#7307646 - 08/18/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TameMe said:
so ....your subject line...that clearly states "Everything you know is wrong." is not a claim you were making?
i don't know that nothing (btw i said anything not nothing) is real...i'm speaking as if i held your belief....and that if everything was wrong...or false...then basically it is not real...but...maybe that wasn't the right word to use.
Correct. I don't know if everything you believe is wrong. I was asking if you could handle it if you found out some of your most cherished beliefs were wrong.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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TameMe
Stranger
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7307685 - 08/18/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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well...i suggest you change the subject line to "If everything you knew was wrong...."....i mean...you put a freaking period after your statement. whether you are willing to admit it or not...you did claim that...whether you intended to or not.
i really don't have any cherished beliefs that i can think of. so yes i could handle it.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7307707 - 08/18/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was asking if you could handle it if you found out some of your most cherished beliefs were wrong
I think many people couldn't handle it.
About a year ago, just to see what would happen, I asked the True Believers in this forum a hypothetical question:
Paraphrased: If, *hypothetically*, it was proved without any doubt that God does not exist, would you realign your world view accordingly.
Most refused to even consider the question. They called the question invalid. How can a hypothetical question be invalid?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5490549#Post5490549
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: TameMe]
#7307718 - 08/18/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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If all beliefs were stripped away, all that would remain would be the Truth right?
So you're asking me if I can handle the truth.. I don't think I could handle it at all, it would probably blow away everything that I take for myself. If there is One Truth it would probably (IMO) be so all encompassing I would have to spend an eternity digesting it all.
edit: Diploid, the question is invalid because God is a concept, if you proved that God wasn't real, I would simply subsitute that God-concept for another God-concept in which to put my faith in
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Edited by EternalCowabunga (08/18/07 01:46 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: TameMe]
#7307758 - 08/18/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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No cherished beliefs? Either you are the first in history or some enlightened master.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Diploid]
#7307762 - 08/18/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
I was asking if you could handle it if you found out some of your most cherished beliefs were wrong
I think many people couldn't handle it.
About a year ago, just to see what would happen, I asked the True Believers in this forum a hypothetical question:
Paraphrased: If, *hypothetically*, it was proved without any doubt that God does not exist, would you realign your world view accordingly.
Most refused to even consider the question. They called the question invalid. How can a hypothetical question be invalid?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5490549#Post5490549
This and many more subtle beliefs are what I'm referring to.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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TameMe
Stranger
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7307813 - 08/18/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
No cherished beliefs? Either you are the first in history or some enlightened master.
i'm flattered.
i really can't think of one right now.
the thing is though...i would like to have a cherished belief...i have so many contradicting beliefs on the same subject...but none of them are cherished...i could discard either one at the drop of a pin.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: TameMe]
#7307881 - 08/18/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Can you discard the belief that you have no cherished beliefs?  Most of us believe many things that we really have no proof of.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7308344 - 08/18/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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how about the belief that I am right and you are wrong?
or the belief that i fully understand you, when perhaps i am missing something...
subconscious beliefs are so very hard to see
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: onlynow]
#7308361 - 08/18/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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how about the belief that I am right and you are wrong?
That could be. I think I can handle it.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7308439 - 08/18/07 06:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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i could never ever handle the fact that you are right and i am wrong... what would happen to my image if i started realizing you were right and i was wrong all along?
im scared of what negative emotion and thought would come out of that...
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: TameMe]
#7308544 - 08/18/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TameMe said:
well...i suggest you change the subject line to "If everything you knew was wrong...."....i mean...you put a freaking period after your statement. whether you are willing to admit it or not...you did claim that...whether you intended to or not.
No he didn't; you're just assuming he did so because you are reading his subject out of context. He stated that he was questioning if one could handle it if they discovered that everything they knew was wrong. The sentence "Everything you know is wrong" represents that discovery, does it not? I think you're overanalyzing the chosen title, or not analyzing it enough. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Icelander]
#7308625 - 08/18/07 08:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Could you handle that? 
That's clearly impossible. Existence is an eternal truth in spite of any illusions or attachments by subjective awareness. If everything I know is wrong, and I say that I know something must exist to be wrong because everything I know is wrong, then not everything I know is wrong anymore.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: Ravus]
#7308633 - 08/18/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know that I am experiencing reality in this present moment. Its reality. I can handle being wrong about everything else I think I know, and I guess I could handle being wrong about that as well, but I just don't see how I could be wrong. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7308638 - 08/18/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
I know that I am experiencing reality in this present moment.
you are 80% wrong.
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: onlynow]
#7308665 - 08/18/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Okay, so which two words from the statment "I am experiencing reality in this present moment" are correct?
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7308689 - 08/18/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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"i am"
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Everything you know is wrong. [Re: onlynow]
#7308721 - 08/18/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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If there is an identity (I) that is (am), then it necessarily follows that there is a moment in which that identity exists (present), as well as a system in which the identity exists (reality).
"In" and "this" simply assist in expressing that truth.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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