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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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I think that universal health care in America is inevitable
    #7300436 - 08/16/07 11:35 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

As I sniff the political winds I think that it will probably be implemented within the next twenty years or so. Note that I am not terribly happy about that.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7300514 - 08/16/07 11:58 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
As I sniff the political winds I think that it will probably be implemented within the next twenty years or so. Note that I am not terribly happy about that.




I agree that it is probably going to happen. Most people want it.

We've been beating this issue to death recently. Personally I am for it. I don't think it will be easy or problem free, but all of my personal observations of Western countries with universal health care have lead me to believe that overall it is better for everyone.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7300536 - 08/16/07 12:05 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

> lead me to believe that overall it is better for everyone

It will certainly be better for everybody that currently doesn't have health care... but not better for the people that are going to have to pay for not only their own health care, but also pay for the lazy "I shouldn't have to work" people's health care as well. Nothing is free, and nobody wins (in the long run) when the government starts to play Robin Hood.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Seuss]
    #7300579 - 08/16/07 12:20 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There have been many instances throughout history where the public demanded government services.

Now, show me one instance where the public willingly gave up government services. It has never happened to my knowledge. Once people find out that they can vote themselves bread from the treasury it's all over.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7300612 - 08/16/07 12:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

what's over?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Arp]
    #7300703 - 08/16/07 01:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Free-markets and economic freedom. It's a slow slide toward overwhelming socialism.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7300792 - 08/16/07 01:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Both you and Seuss argue that this is the first step on the dark path to socialism, like universal health care is a gateway drug. Stop being so melodramatic. The current system is broken and as a country we are going to try and fix it. Good. I don't understand why people fear change so much. There are many countries that have universal health care and, while their systems have some negative effects on people, it hasn't turned their citizens into mindless communist zombies. It's unbelievable how people are still so paranoid about the spread of communism.

I don't see why you are so worried. The US will never embrace socialism. Capitalism will be going strong long after universal health care comes into play.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7300916 - 08/16/07 02:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think it would lead to the US devolving into socialism, but I still don't feel I should have to pay for anymore of anyone's health care than I already do.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Redstorm]
    #7301001 - 08/16/07 02:51 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I don't think it would lead to the US devolving into socialism, but I still don't feel I should have to pay for anymore of anyone's health care than I already do.




I understand, and I respect this opinion probably more than it seems I do. If I thought there were a way to reform the current system so that your tax dollars didn't have to get spent on other people's health yet we could make sure that the uninsured are better taken care of I would be for it. But I see the contemporary scene as a crisis and I think it is unfortunate but necessary to call in the government to close the increasing gap between the rich and healthy and the sick and poor.

Incidentally I think it would also be better if more states adopted universal health care for their citizens. I'm a federalist on this issue and am sure health care provided on a state level would be much better.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7301102 - 08/16/07 03:20 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Free-markets and economic freedom. It's a slow slide toward overwhelming socialism.




I don't think this will happen. We might see the economic disaster that was the 1970s again before things get better, but they will get better.

Remember, after Watergate, nothing could have gotten Ronald Reagan elected, except for Jimmy Carter...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7301178 - 08/16/07 03:47 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046973/posts
Quote:

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian republic some 2,000 years prior:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship




Anybody who thinks that this will"fix" health care is nuts. Instead of it sucking for 25% of the population it will suck for 90% of the population. There is no less motivated worker than a gummint worker. They are accountable to no one and can't be fired or achieve greater status. A total disaster.

The chance of anybody seeing me or mine at a gummint cheese, I mean health care, line is nil.


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OfflineKiasmata
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Economist]
    #7301292 - 08/16/07 04:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Free-markets and economic freedom. It's a slow slide toward overwhelming socialism.




I don't think this will happen. We might see the economic disaster that was the 1970s again before things get better, but they will get better.

Remember, after Watergate, nothing could have gotten Ronald Reagan elected, except for Jimmy Carter...




You're right, we'll probably see more capitalism before we see more socialism. Just as Marx predicted.


--------------------
"I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.
I feel my fate in what I cannot fear.
I learn by going where I have to go.

We think by feeling. What is there to know?
I hear my being dance from ear to ear.
I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow."


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Kiasmata]
    #7301299 - 08/16/07 04:27 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kiasmata said:
You're right, we'll probably see more capitalism before we see more socialism. Just as Marx predicted.




Except that I think Marx got it backwards. See the recent election of Sarkozy in France.


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OfflineKiasmata
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Economist]
    #7301304 - 08/16/07 04:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

Kiasmata said:
You're right, we'll probably see more capitalism before we see more socialism. Just as Marx predicted.




Except that I think Marx got it backwards. See the recent election of Sarkozy in France.




You obviously don't understand socialism. Please don't shit higher then your ass.


--------------------
"I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.
I feel my fate in what I cannot fear.
I learn by going where I have to go.

We think by feeling. What is there to know?
I hear my being dance from ear to ear.
I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Kiasmata]
    #7301319 - 08/16/07 04:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kiasmata said:

You obviously don't understand socialism. Please don't shit higher then your ass.




Oh my fucking god a two post newbie with this. Somebody's keyboard has gotten a bit ahead of his......package?


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Kiasmata]
    #7301321 - 08/16/07 04:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

So you're of the opinion that Sarkozy is *more* socialist than his 35-hour work week toting predecessors?

And you're also able to determine what people know about socialism from one line typed over the internet?


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OfflineKiasmata
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7301359 - 08/16/07 04:49 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Kiasmata said:

You obviously don't understand socialism. Please don't shit higher then your ass.




Oh my fucking god a two post newbie with this. Somebody's keyboard has gotten a bit ahead of his......package?




I take it you are bear of very little brain and long words bother you.


--------------------
"I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.
I feel my fate in what I cannot fear.
I learn by going where I have to go.

We think by feeling. What is there to know?
I hear my being dance from ear to ear.
I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow."


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Kiasmata]
    #7301376 - 08/16/07 04:55 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, that's enough with the flames, please debate on topic.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Kiasmata]
    #7301390 - 08/16/07 04:59 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kiasmata said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Kiasmata said:

You obviously don't understand socialism. Please don't shit higher then your ass.




Oh my fucking god a two post newbie with this. Somebody's keyboard has gotten a bit ahead of his......package?




I take it you are bear of very little brain and long words bother you.




Oh this is going to be fun fun fun. (All small 'cause I'm small)


--------------------


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I think that universal health care in America is inevitable [Re: Kiasmata]
    #7301418 - 08/16/07 05:08 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kiasmata said:
Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

Kiasmata said:
You're right, we'll probably see more capitalism before we see more socialism. Just as Marx predicted.




Except that I think Marx got it backwards. See the recent election of Sarkozy in France.




You obviously don't understand socialism.




Enlighten us then, you wise newbie.


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