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 Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
 
Registered: 11/23/01
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 Lucifer 
#730040 - 07/07/02 07:03 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been thinking about the story of Lucifer and how he "rebelled" against God by making his own creation, which is supposedly the reality we live in.
Well would not that be the same as one of us deciding to create a video game with artificial intelligence?
I don't see how creation could be rebellion, especially towards the almighty Creationist, or God.
Is it wrong because Lucifer seperated himself from God, the Source, to create a world of polarity? This would create suffering, but it would also create growth, learning, and an outside experience to take back to the Source (and make it stronger). I don't see why Lucifer is portrayed as such an evil being... he was just a curious dude who wanted to experience something outside of God. Isn't that the same as a child who wants to experience something outside of the restricted world of their parent's protection?
Forgive me if I got some aspects of the story wrong.... I am not too familiar with it.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730049 - 07/07/02 07:08 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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My understanding is that Lucifer 'rebelled' against God by creating his Merkaba externally, as a technology rather than function of the spirit. God intended for the Merkaba to be an internal function of the spirit. By doing this, Lucifer did the opposite of what God intended, thus creating the material world. Perhaps this is why God put Lucifer in charge of the material plane, because he created it and was thus responsible for it.
I don't see Lucifer as bad at all, just an opposing force that is neccessary for Creation to continue learning. It's a fine cosmic balance.
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730089 - 07/07/02 07:25 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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You two sinners are going to burn in hell for your heresies...
or something like that.
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730093 - 07/07/02 07:27 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Where's a catholic when you need one?
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730101 - 07/07/02 07:30 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm a recovering Catholic.
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730105 - 07/07/02 07:31 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm so sorry..
Here.. have a hug
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730108 - 07/07/02 07:34 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're not a priest are you? I don't like hugs from priests, they don't know where to put their hands...
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730114 - 07/07/02 07:37 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry, I got off topic. I always saw interesting similarities in the Lucifer myths and the story of Prometheus.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730121 - 07/07/02 07:39 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lucifer's sin was the sin of pride. He wanted to be worshipped ahead of God. He was cast down to the earth for is sin. Lucifer is not a creator. He is a destroyer. A murderer from the beginning and a father of lies. All he wants to do is take as many souls to hell with him as he can.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#730129 - 07/07/02 07:41 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is hell? Can you provide some proof of it's existence?
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730139 - 07/07/02 07:44 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is hell?
Here's some of what the Bible has to say:
A place of weeping and gnashing of teeth - And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30).
A place of outer darkness - "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13).
A place of torments - "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom" (Luke 16:23).
A place of Sorrows - "The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;" (2 Samuel 22:6).
A place of everlasting destruction - "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (II Thessalonians 1:9).
A place where men are tormented with fire and brimstone - "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).
A place where fire is not quenched - "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44).
A bottomless pit - "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).
A place of no rest - "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name" (Revelation 14:11).
It is ultimately a lake of fire - "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Revelation 20:14).
A place of hopeless of unsatisfied desires - "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame " (Luke 16:24). The rich man wanted water but could not get any.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#730140 - 07/07/02 07:44 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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LOL, Evolving
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
Edited by Adamist (07/07/02 07:45 PM)
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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#730152 - 07/07/02 07:48 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13).
Ashes to ashes; dust to dust. According to both science and the Bible we lose our body at the time of death. So how can there be a "gnashing of teeth" after death?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Swami]
#730170 - 07/07/02 07:55 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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The answer is simple, you get your body back, including teeth.
John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#730290 - 07/07/02 08:55 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here is part of a "channeling" by Lucifer called "The Fallen Angel"...
"As I fell as a pattern, a blueprint of an idea, I held in form an energy that enabled beings such as yourselves to experience, light and dark, good and bad. You all come from many places in the universe; there is much healing to be done. The only place in the universe where beings can transmute negativity into positivity is on planet Earth. This is enabled because I, Lucifer, hold a framework that allows there to be duality, judgement.
You see, it is not me that commits the sins you project on to me; it is yourselves. You cannot bear the darkness in your own souls, so you disown it and project it onto me. Such is your nature, being held in duality. You, as a species, have a tendency to judge, and this in itself is the downfall of man. You have heard the story of the fall from Eden. I did not commit any sin. I just gave you the choice. You, in your truth, choose to judge the situation and fall from Grace. Grace is the ability to blindly follow the intent of the Creator. You as creative beings choose to choose. It was when you judged, that you fell from your place in heaven. All I did was give you the space where you could have a choice.
I have held this energy framework for millions of years and allowed beings from all over the universe to come here and transmute karma, to learn the lessons Earth so gladly teaches.
Through me, you will learn to heal your judgements and will learn to love the darkness as well as the light as they are the two faces of God.
Wake up to yourselves. Gather in the projections that you have surrounded me with and begin to heal.
Wash away the darkness that encases me and I will be free to be the Lightbringer!"
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
Edited by Adamist (07/07/02 08:58 PM)
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730325 - 07/07/02 09:19 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here's some more:
" I am a mirror to the human soul. I only reflect your darkness, all that is not with God. The darkest recesses of your soul are reflected in the vision that you have of me. You cannot accept that there are places in your souls that are dark. You talk about being sinners, but how many of you have the courage to accept the darkness within yourselves. You have spent an eternity trying to project this failing onto others and myself. Blaming, judging, simply digging deeper and deeper grave for yourselves. Yet I do not judge. It is all fine with me. There is nothing that would shock me. I have been very curious watching you from within my space create a world that is constantly on the verge of destruction. You are such exciting beings; I am amazed watching you.
You are living breathing expressions of the Creator, creating dark and fore-boding clouds in your very own reality. This has been a necessary part of the plan. You have come here from many places in the universe, bringing many issues with you to be played out. You are using the energy space that I provide to experience good and evil, right and wrong, light and darkness.
You are learning choice and free will. I have held for you a framework where you can experience light and dark. I will hold this framework until the last of you have finished playing
in the darkness. For that is what it is, play.
Elevate your consciousness into the fifth dimension for a moment, and look at me and you will see that I am friend, a brother, enabling you to experience a creative process that allows you to forget, to dream, and to awaken as God once more. It is to waken in the dream, to allow the God that you are, to awaken in the lucidity of your reality!
From the level of non-judgement, it has all been a cosmic joke. All is God; nothing can possibly be left out, so, therefore, so am I and so is the darkness. For the darkness is a very creative process and fear in its transmutation is an experience never to be missed by any
enquiring and curious soul.
When you can accept and love the part of you that is the dark as a creative part of your consciousness, then I will free you from my grasps and we will move together into the Oneness of New Planet. When you no longer look at me as outside of yourself, when you have pulled all the aspects of yourself into the fullness of your souls you will move in consciousness. When you can look upon evil acts without judgement, then you have truly entered the realms of heaven. I await you there. It is not about living your life without care or purpose. It is about feeling and following the intent of the soul without judgement. I have faith in you as I waken within you. As you integrate me as your own, we will both be free to play once more in Eden. For within my soul and yours, there is the information we will use to find our way Home to bathe in each other's love once more. I cannot wait for the embrace. I have felt the love. It has made me hungry. Finally I know what will satisfy this empty heart. The love of your soul. For it is through beings such as you that mankind can free the perspectives that you have around evil. Only when you can look upon darkness with the love of the Creator, which you are, will this planet of yours shift in vibration.
I hold the key. I am a blueprint. Not only do I hold the idea of separation and duality, but I also have the means with which to transform your world into a unified world of oneness and
light. No longer will you see black and white, yin and yang, but you will perceive the unification of spirit and matter. You will literally become Gods living in physical forms. For this was the plan that we had all along to transform the very negativity of the universe through the love of beings such as you and me. For are we not all fallen angels?
The blueprint is a matrix that contains all the necessary information to create a New Planet frequency; beings are being aligned with the crystal at the centre of the planet to access this information. When the time is right, every-one will be aligned and I will send out a new intent.
With this, we will bathe in the Light of the Creator once more. So, until the last person is finished dancing with the devil, I will hold the old way, but I am eager to shift into a new role,
one where I will be misunderstood no more."
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730330 - 07/07/02 09:29 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Keep in mind that Lucifer is the accuser, the murderer, the rebel that wants to be worshipped, and above all else, a master of lies. Lucifer will do or say anything to decieve people from the truth. I know, because I've been in bondage. My old friend Lucifer came, he fought to keep me in chains, but I saw through the tricks of old six-sixty-six.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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mr crisper
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#730431 - 07/08/02 12:58 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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i love using the bible to prove things 
isaiah 45:7 " i make peace, and create evil; i the lord do all these things"
to assume lucifer has broken away from god, gone against the will of said god. been a naughty angel.....implies some weakness or lack of control on god's part, isn't that a little presumptuous of us?
Edited by mr crisper (07/08/02 01:01 AM)
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mr crisper
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730437 - 07/08/02 01:21 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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In reply to:
. All is God; nothing can possibly be left out, so, therefore, so am I and so is the darkness. For the darkness is a very creative process and fear in its transmutation is an experience never to be missed by any
enquiring and curious soul.
its about the same message. not that i wish to draw any comparisons to the bible. where did these texts come from?
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Alloya.de A very interesting website, to say the least...
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#730612 - 07/08/02 04:54 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Adamist, I really like some of the ideas expressed in those quotes.
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Rail_Gun, you wrote:
Lucifer will do or say anything to decieve people from the truth
How do you know that those who transcribed the text of the Bible were not of the mind to do or say anything to deceive people from the truth?
Assuming there is any truth from either source, how do you know that the source of Adamist's quotes is not more accurate than the source from which you quoted? (please refrain quoting from the same book to support your arguments)
Oh, do you have any verifiable evidence of hell?
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730615 - 07/08/02 04:54 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is NOT a Biblical idea that Lucifer [Greek: Light Bearer] created the cosmos. This is a strictly Gnostic idea in which a 'lesser god,' referred to as the Demiurge, misappropriated God's Eternal Wisdom, and created the cosmos. The Demiurge was, according to early Gnostics like Marcion, the god of the Old Testament. Somewhere in time, the Demiurge became equated with Satan [Hebrew: Adversary] - an angel who 'worked for' God (see the Book of Job). The OT Satan, was not the radical and rebellious devil of the NT. In fact, the doctrine of original sin that states that mankind has inherited sin from Adam, and is utterly depraved, is not an OT concept. Jews believe that mankind has an 'evil inclination,' the 'yetzer hara,' but not that we are damned from the start. This doctrine was later developed by Christian theologians to hammer us with the absolute necessity of the need for a Savior, without whom we are doomed to damnation. Damnation was only really suggested in the OT Book of Daniel as those who would resurrect to 'contempt' rather than to 'life.' Christianity, with the singlehanded vocabulary of the author Matthew, gave us hellfire and brimstone to contend with.
The 'shining one,' referred to as the mythological serpent on the Tree of Knowledge [Gnosis] of Good and Evil, later became identified as Lucifer, but the 'fall' of Lucifer and his angels is really only dicussed at length in the Pseudepigraphal Book of I Enoch. There is, very clearly, Good and Evil in the world. These have been broken down into different aspects like moral and natural, but almost always the categories relate to effects on human lives (although modern thinkers have expanded this to animal life and the ecosystem). A tornado is 'evil' inasmuch as it destroys, but is a natural phenomenon. A murderer is not natural, but moral evil, yet if we are all 'murderers from the beginning' as the devil is described, without redemption, then one could say a murderer is just being a 'natural man.'[ I prefer the Jewish take on original sin in this regard.] But I digress. Good and evil in every mythos that I can think of, has been personified. This is the language of mythology, Biblical or otherwise. Myth does NOT mean untrue. Myths are the colorful oral and written vehicles of spiritual truth. There may or may not be a historical aspect to myth. There is almost certainly a historical Jesus of Nazareth, but whereas most of us know evil when we encounter it, we usually do not see Satan or Lucifer as historical persons. They remain spiritual realities. However, both Jesus the Christ and the devil, participate in myth.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#732451 - 07/08/02 07:18 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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How do you know that those who transcribed the text of the Bible were not of the mind to do or say anything to deceive people from the truth?
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
--William Shakespeare
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Sclorch
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#732533 - 07/08/02 07:46 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
--William Shakespeare
So can dead, white playwrights... what's your point?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Sclorch]
#732575 - 07/08/02 08:13 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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My point is that anyone can.
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Sclorch
Clyster
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#732581 - 07/08/02 08:17 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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My point is that anyone can.
Okay.
So... is there some sort of inertial frame of reference that we should all use when reading the Bible?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Shroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: Sclorch]
#732671 - 07/08/02 10:05 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
--William Shakespeare
I think the point is...the bible is so losely termed and open for interpreation that very little can be determined from it. Anyone can twist it's words one way or the other to fit any number of meanings. Well put Bill! Just my insight..
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Shroomalicious -  I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi
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Shroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#732685 - 07/08/02 10:20 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Adamist buddy...here are some of my thoughts...
I think Satan is either the Yin or the Yang in a needed prespective giving battle of good and evil. I think the reason, in the story, that he is evil is because he wanted to get credit. He didn't want to do things for the right reasons, he wanted to do them to satisfy his Ego. Now, if God gets mad at Satan for having an Ego than why would he get one himself? Either because he doesn't or because His Ego is so big that he can't take others. I think the first one is true. I actual believe this, and this is why I don't think God has an Ego per se. I don't believe in a vengeful and angry God.
Here is another, more (you could say) "odd" aspect of my point of view. I believe there is a specfic energy out there that you can put the title of "Satan" on, accurately. I believe this because I believe I have communicated with it several times.
I realised in these experiences that Satan's only power is the power to confuse and bring on doubt. He operates on a very intelligent "smoke and mirrors" kind of way. So, after I determined this I tried to conjure him up to literally take on the Devil one on one. Just me and the Devil all alone in the middle of some field. I was 110% sober. I plucked his Ego by challenging him and he arrived. I calmly told him what I thought of him...he is sad and evil and what drives him nuts is that the human race has twice the power "he" has, sometimes we just don't realise this. However, I do. He has no power over me and I can feel him try at times even now. He is far to weak and I can honestly say the Devil has got nothing on me and it knows it...believe it or not.
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Shroomalicious - I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Did you get to do the fiddle showdown / hoedown with him?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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N.I.B
Some people say my love cannot be true
please believe me, my love, and I'll show you
I will give you those things you thought unreal
The sun, the moon, the stars all bear my seal
Oh yeah!
Follow me now and you will not regret
leaving the life you led before we met
You are the first to have this love of mine
forever with me 'till the end of time
Your love for me has just got to be real
before you know the way I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
Oh yeah!
Now I have you with me, under my power
Our love grows stronger now with every hour
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
my name is Lucifer, please take my hand
Oh yeah!
Follow me now and you will not regret
leaving the life you led before we met
You are the first to have this love of mine
forever with me 'till the end of time
Your love for me has just got to be real
before you know the way I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
Oh yeah!
Now I have you with me, under my power
Our love grows stronger now with every hour
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
my name is Lucifer, please take my hand
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Revelation
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#733406 - 07/09/02 09:15 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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What I find frightening is that there are probably hellish situations and places within our physical universe.
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3wolves
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Revelation]
#733744 - 07/09/02 11:00 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lucifer is the Pharmacon. Satan is the Pharmacon. the Pharmacon meaning the primal original Sacrament, Fruit of the Goddess.
Whenever we explore this Deep territory we must be aware of the historical rise of the patriarchy and its suppression of the Sacrament through fascist means, and the attempt to totally eradicate any memory of our ages old relationship with sacred plants. please read Dan Russell's Shamanism and the Drug Propaganda for a much more indepth analysis.
What has/is happening is the supression of the unconscious! this device has caused extraordinary distress thoughout all the species of this world including us, and is rapidly destroying Nature itself. its mindset has created the concept of "mental illness" as a further means of suppressing the effect of its facism, mental disturbance being the natural consequence of a fascistic environment which inevitably breeds unhappiness in varying degrees. so the 'evil' if anything is the will to supress the deepest aspect of our being and our intimate relationship with Nature .
They/we have demonized our unconscious and Nature
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: 3wolves]
#734091 - 07/09/02 01:41 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think Lucifer is also what what none of us wish to look at in ourselves (our Shadow).
But we must look into it and accept it, because that opens up the possibility of redemption.
"The distressing struggle of integrating the shadow side of ourselves, of wrestling with the dark angel within, is ongoing and never ending for those who are willing to take it on. Jung considers it a moral task of the first magnitude, and given the godlike power conferred upon us most notably by the ability to unleash atomic energy, the struggle assumes an urgency and necessity for the future survival of our humankind. Let us hope enough of us are able and willing to enter the ring."
-from Thoughts on Evil, by James M. Shultz
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Adamist
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Adamist]
#734093 - 07/09/02 01:42 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- Jesus, Gospel of Thomas
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EvilGir
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Adamist]
#734124 - 07/09/02 01:55 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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In reply to:
What I find frightening is that there are probably hellish situations and places within our physical universe.
Try Looking on earth. There is pain and suffering all around us.
People are dying from hunga,r war and torture. This probbably is Hell.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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llib
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#734218 - 07/09/02 02:31 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some of the posts are right on. Satan represents the negative energy. From a spiritual sense i term this the loss of atonement, one with godself. It is represented by the adam and eve story. From a spiritual senese I believe that this took place over many millenium. I believe that humanity had "godself", "oneness", but over time began to evolve away from the ....what I consider to be the only universal truth", we are all "of god" created by god, one with god. As Humans began to stary away from this truth, miscreations were made. Miscreations can be both true miscreation and false miscreations, together they form our perception of reality.
herein lay the real "evil" in our societies, the complete loss of teh atonement. When speaking of aura colors, i noted that there are some who are said to be old souls. I do believe that the old souls are finding each other and have been sent as "guides" teachers" lighters of the path back to spirtuality.
i havent figure it out yet, but I believe the mayan prophecies to be true. It has been shown that the mayan calendar is one of teh most accurate ever known. Based upon lunar cycles rather than sun.
At some point in time, i think it was a Pope, gregory decided to create the gregorian calendar. Hmmm, why do we have some months with 30 days, some with 31, some 28, leap years ect. Seems quite flawed.
Additionally, i believe that all religions are, OBVIOUSLY< man-made. many try to tell the same story. For instance , christianity was not really a well formed religion until over 300 years after the "resurrection , birth, death of christ.
In essence, Constantine, a Briton related to King herod, called for a meeting of over 2800 presbyters.....those preaching their own version of the christ story. Constantine saw this as a perfect opportunity to associate and assimilate church and stae=control of the masses. Constantine is said to have dismissed 70 percent of the presbyters that did not want to accept his version of the story.
The christ image, born to a virgin mother is not new and found in over 32 cultural storys, myths fables legends prior to christ's birth. I do believe that what christ represents.....unconditional love....is the true essence of the atonement, or teh return to the atonement.
i cant name all 32 but some are Mishra, in persia, the osiris, isis, horus story of egypt(in fact the picture of osiris with horus) have been mistaken by some christians to be that of the mary an dchild when in fact it is an egyptian picture. Thor in scandinavian folklore is another.
Additionally, i do believe that there is a 'quckening" occuring, whatever on emay want to define that as.....for me it is an increase in awareness, particularly of a resurrgence of positive spiritual energy. I do too feel that the "satan", luciferic consciousness, is being tested, i do feel that the luciferic consciousness has served to block the abilities of people from experiencing the 4th dimensional energy. i do not know hpow yet or how th epositive forces are increasing.......BUT I KNOW!!!!!!
Christianity has become avery profitable superstition........
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us". Pope Leo X (1513-1521). yet , i belieev that the unconditional love is teh spirtual atonement and feel that that is what christ represents , i know that is repetetive.
Catholicism, i was brought up this way, in my opinion is run by the "state" the Vatican, controlled namely by the cosa nostra, agrigento sicily is argentina, costa rica also a part of the control amongst other US corporations. It is a big money corporation. Another Pope, cant remember his name, somewheer around 1300 AD was teh one to institute celibacy into the church.
Previously, I noted a post that some of the "indigos" are androgynous. i do believe that females and males are one spiritually and there just manifest soem of the good and bad energies more so in both. men, bad-control, good-protection, females, good-nurture, bad -manipulation. Phyiscally the clitoris and teh penis are derived from the same tissue.
how does this fit, well I believe , and many know, sexual energy is huge, can be very spiritual and can be a link, like some of the taoist sexual teacher say a portal to the "window of spirtual awareness. when the sexes are made to be so separate , especially like the catholic instituted celibacy for their leaders, I believe that this pushes our spirits towards more of a luciferic consciousness. that is teh inability to experience the 4th dimension. Awareness, "quickening" ect sartori enlightenment
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Swami
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: EvilGir]
#734221 - 07/09/02 02:32 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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People are dying from hunga,r
Look at me. I am suffering from Cheet-ohs and Diet Pepsi poisoning.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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EvilGir
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Swami]
#734250 - 07/09/02 02:43 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess the your Very lucky then but what about the poor bastards in the 3rd world. They are great horrors in this world just because you dont see it dosent mean its not there.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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Larrythescaryrex
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Re: Lucifer [Re: llib]
#734799 - 07/09/02 06:20 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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originally zoroastrianism
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RIP Acidic_Sloth
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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thePatient
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: EvilGir]
#735068 - 07/09/02 08:30 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Try Looking on earth. There is pain and suffering all around us.
People are dying from hunga,r war and torture. This probbably is Hell.
I once thought that life, as we know it, may be Hell. Or possibly Purgatory.
Purgatory - a place of cleansing - purge away our sins.
Purgatory is kind of the in-between heaven and hell. Well, what is life but the in-between heaven and hell? Maybe all of us on Earth, in this life, we're put here because we commited some sort of crime, or sin, not worthy enough to get into either heaven or hell. So this is where we went to redeem ourselves, or maybe condemn ourselves. Maybe our second chance. We come into life innocent as newborns and from there we have to make the decision of redemntion or condemntion ourselves. Because if we knew that this was purgatory, then we would live a biased life, only doing what we thought would get us into heaven. But us not knowing lets us make the decision through our character, personality or soul.
This thought came to me a long time ago when i was a questioning catholic. I am a catholic no longer. To somewhat believe in this you'd need to believe in Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory. I just thought I'd share that with you. 
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T h e r e a r e n o o r d i n a r y m o m e n t s.
Edited by thePatient (07/09/02 08:49 PM)
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fireworks_god
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#736302 - 07/10/02 09:31 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd just like to point out that everyone thinks N.I.B. stands for "Nativity in Black", but in the book for "Reunion" it says "NIB" has something to do with one of their "pointy, nib like beards".
This has nothing to do with the discussion of Lucifer, just Black's Sabbath's N.I.B.
(Edit: I don't know WHERE this fucking thing came from..  )
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
 
 
Edited by fireworks_god (09/20/03 09:06 AM)
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Revelation
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Adamist]
#736627 - 07/10/02 11:25 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very good link adamist. Will think about it some.
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Adamist
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Revelation]
#740435 - 07/11/02 09:10 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would like to point out something...
The Mayan deity Quetzalcoatl (the feathered serpent) is associated with Venus as the Morning Star, visible before sunrise.
Lucifer, who is also associated with being a serpent and having wings (he was/is an angel right?) was also associated with Venus... According to Webster:
Lu ci fer (l s f r) [[ME < OE < L, morning star (in ML, Satan), lit., light-bringing < lux (gen. lucis ), LIGHT1 + ferre , to BEAR1]] 1 the planet Venus when it is the morning star 2 Theol. SATAN; specif., in Christian theology, Satan as leader of the fallen angels: he was an angel of light until he revolted against God and, with the others, was cast into hell. . .
But anyways, I think this is a pretty odd coincidence, don't you think?
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Edited by Adamist (07/11/02 09:13 PM)
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why
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Re: Lucifer [Re: llib]
#741063 - 07/12/02 07:51 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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>Satan represents the negative energy. From a spiritual sense i term this the loss of atonement, one with godself. It is represented by the adam and eve story.
But the atonement had yet to happen...
>From a spiritual senese I believe that this took place over many millenium.
Probably.
The point of interest is not what caused us to sin, nor does it matter what the sin was. The point of the story was that we were able to sin.
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CaliChronic
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#741320 - 07/12/02 09:30 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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if you believe in that kind of thing (fairy tales).......
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overgrow
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Adamist
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It doesn't matter if you "believe" in it or not.. How does a fairy tale become so similar in 2 different cultures? Do you think the Christians copied an obscure tribal society myth in mexico or vice versa? When these 2 cultures did (as far as history knows) meet for the first time, it was the end for the Mayans... So how did they share such a common belief before they even interacted with each other?
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Edited by Adamist (07/12/02 12:02 PM)
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llib
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Re: Lucifer [Re: why]
#743884 - 07/13/02 02:24 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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religious stories are simply man's attempt to explain 4th dimensional spirituality in , if you would, "human terms", read a course in miracles for true spiritual essence
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francisco
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#751160 - 07/16/02 01:59 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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That story was told to keep you in line.Same thing gov't is doing today.Buy into the bullshit or be free.Your decision lucifer.
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Well...Maybe just a little.
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fireworks_god
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I feel that this should be bumped up, so everyone can read the texts that Adamist posted.. very insightful stuff!
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#1935281 - 09/20/03 11:20 AM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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In the Genesis account, Lucifer did not create the world (cosmos, in Greek), GOD did. It is a Gnostic creation myth that makes the Demiurge - a 'lesser god,' sometimes identified with the Hebrew YHVH, and sometimes with Satan or Samael ('the Blind God'), the Creator, and creation an act of rebellion. The Biblical attitude is that creation is good. It is not materiality that is the problem, but rather evil spiritual principles that are the problem. The fall of Lucifer ('Light Bearer') and 1/3 of the angels from the Divine Presence is a mythological rendering of the problem of evil, given that GOD is Goodness Itself.
The 'Fallen' films with Christopher Walken playing an evil Gabriel (who is the author of the Qu'ran in Islam), and who also plays a role in the NT are hokey, but they actually bring out some mytho-metaphysical points, as well as what you seem to evidence, namely 'sympathy for the devil.'
It would seem that evil is a kind of metaphysical consequence of the limitations of creation, and the idea that against the Pure Eternal Light of GOD, the universe is gonna cast one Hell of a Shadow, metaphysically speaking, and that Shadow is evil.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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fireworks_god
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The way I see it, if we were indeed living in some sort of paradise automatically, only existing in the positive orientation, we would be basically ignorant, not having any reason to advance closer to the Creator..
We weren't getting anywhere, evolution wise, and the Co-Creator for this galaxy tried out free will and brought in the negative orientation, thus giving us a catalyst to grow..
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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MarkostheGnostic
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Pretty insightful! This is why some Gnostics held the Serpent to be a hero. For the best rendering of the birth of human consciousness from a Jungian treatment of the Genesis myth, read "Ego and Archetype: Individuation and the Religious Function of the Psyche" by Edward Edinger.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Pretty insightful! This is why some Gnostics held the Serpent to be a hero. For the best rendering of the birth of human consciousness from a Jungian treatment of the Genesis myth, read "Ego and Archetype: Individuation and the Religious Function of the Psyche" by Edward Edinger.
I have been listening to a lot of Dimmu Borgir recently, and me and a friend from here were talking about Satanists... I think that they sort have discovered this, too, but all the negative beliefs of Satan and all of that from Christianity and so forth get thrown in and they sort of believe both, which is sort of messed up... I'd say that they are about half right, just as most Christians are about half right..
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Spokesman
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: thePatient]
#1936020 - 09/20/03 05:00 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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Hell is what goes through a crackheads mind right before he takes a hit, what goes through a heroin addict right before shooting up. Hell is in the stomach of an Etheopian child dying of hunger. Hell is happening in the Middle East everyday.
Also, Satan is looked at as evil because he rebeled against God. Doesent mean hes the father of lies or God of death. Just like if you rebel against the U.S. goverment your a "terrorist" .
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Edited by Spokesman (09/20/03 05:06 PM)
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Zahid
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Spokesman]
#1936060 - 09/20/03 05:17 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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Interesting thread so far... I'd like to add, didn't the pontiff recently say that Satan is a metaphor for man's nature?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Zahid]
#1936062 - 09/20/03 05:19 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Zahid said:
Interesting thread so far... I'd like to add, didn't the pontiff recently say that Satan is a metaphor for man's nature?
The pontiff? Who the hell is that?
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Zahid
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: fireworks_god]
#1936099 - 09/20/03 05:37 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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Pope John Paul II, Karol Wojtyla.
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Adamist
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 Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: fireworks_god]
#1936223 - 09/20/03 06:52 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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Wow, thanks for bringing this back. It's strange reading something I wrote over a year ago.
"The Old Serpent is seen by Blake as a symbol of nature worship and subtle hypocrisy. The coiling form is said to represent entrapment of spiritual man in materialism or the illusory snares of nature. The coiling serpent is reminiscent of the Kundalini, however, which serves the opposite purpose. It is through the serpentine wisdom attained by the Kundalini that we free ourselves from the illusory nature of the physical world to embrace the truth of higher existence. Compare to the Ouroboros as a symbol of renewing initiation to the occultist and as a symbol of reincarnation. Mdme. Blavatsky reminds us of Her tutelary ways: 'Thus it stands proven that Satan, or the red Fiery Dragon, the 'Lord of Phosphorus' and Lucifer, or 'Light bearer' is in us; it is our mind-our temptor and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and saviour from pure animalism.' "
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Shroomism
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#1936463 - 09/20/03 09:27 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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Well see... "God" was all about internal spirit creation. If he wanted to fly across the universe, he'd use his merkaba.
Lucifer 'rebelled' by entering the realm of external technology. He entered the physical realm and did the opposite of "God". If he wanted to fly across the universe, he'd take a spaceship.
It was all a part of the master plan though 
God created Lucifer. Balance.
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Spokesman
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So do you think this "god" is pure good, and this "satan" is pure evil? I read the bible constantly and i cant help but see a Ying Yang symbol here.
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Shroomism
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I think God is compassionate creation and love and Lucifer is destruction and fear. Good and evil are human concepts. However, I've seen God get pissed, and Lucifer has loved. There is always an exception to the rule.
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Jellric
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Quote:
God created Lucifer. Balance
"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
-Isaiah 45:6-7
I don't view the Bible as the sole revealer of truth, but this verse does grab your attention.
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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.
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wrestler_az
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#1937172 - 09/21/03 03:04 AM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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This thread is very interesting...but i believe the referecne of lucifer to satan to be somewhat of a mistake. When i read the passage in Isaiah refering to lucifer, I get the understanding that it is not talking about satan at all, but the fall af a babylonian king. I think that somewhere down the line someone thought that it would be cooler if the story were to be about a fallen angel to whom they gave the name Lucifer, and this idea has stuck ever since. Lucifer is from the latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light. (if im wrong here please correct me) In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." (once again, my knowledge of the translations is limited, so im only going by what others have told me.) The scholars who translated the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell.
Its kinda ironic that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to Jesus...
anyway, just my 2 cents
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how's your WOW?
Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM)
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Shroomism
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Lucifer is the Angel of Light
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
I think God is compassionate creation and love and Lucifer is destruction and fear. Good and evil are human concepts.
Do you mean that God symbolizes creation and love and Lucifer symbolizes destruction and fear?
I agree with you that good and evil are human concepts. I just see it that Lucifer gave us the choice.. that he isn't actually destruction and fear, just that he gave the ability of free will... it did pull us out of "Eden", or whatever, but that was sort of the point, so that we would be given a catalyst for growth...
This belief shouldn't be confused with Satanism, either, because that set of beliefs is just as misleading as Christianity is today. I believe that they probably get what I said above confused with all the shit about Satan that Christianity has spread.. who knows. 
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Jellric
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Quote:
When i read the passage in Isaiah refering to lucifer, I get the understanding that it is not talking about satan at all, but the fall af a babylonian king
I didn't state the passage was referring to Lucifer.
Just that according to this one book, God Himself creates evil.
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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Jellric
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Quote:
I just see it that Lucifer gave us the choice.. that he isn't actually destruction and fear, just that he gave the ability of free will... it did pull us out of "Eden", or whatever, but that was sort of the point, so that we would be given a catalyst for growth...
Exactly. Someone does something terribly wrong. They provide the fuel. Lucifer provides the hell fire. It's an exchange: The fire consumes the evil in that person, Lucifer gets his jollies, and if all goes well the fire has tempered that person into a purer form. The balance is restored. In this way Lucifer is seen as a partner to God.
However, if the person continues to identify with the wrongness in himself (or what is not Self) he will experience this process as being excruciating. If your coat is on fire what do you do? Take it off right? You don't keep wearing it!! The pain burns like fire. Hopefully he will not resist evil and let the process be complete.
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DoctorJ
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Jellric]
#1937684 - 09/21/03 11:03 AM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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I have always intrepeted God and Lucifer like this:
God is light
Lucifer is the bringer of Light
God is
Lucifer does
Lao Tzu is a godly person
Thomas Jefferson is a Luciferian
they both have their strengths and weaknesses
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fireworks_god
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Jellric]
#1937690 - 09/21/03 11:08 AM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Jellric said:
Exactly. Someone does something terribly wrong. They provide the fuel. Lucifer provides the hell fire. It's an exchange: The fire consumes the evil in that person, Lucifer gets his jollies, and if all goes well the fire has tempered that person into a purer form. The balance is restored. In this way Lucifer is seen as a partner to God.
Or, someone does something terribly wrong. They suffer the consequences. Lucifer shakes his head, as someone has opted to act negatively, but he remembers that the choice was given to us as a species for our own good, so that we would have someting to learn from and something to evolve from..
Someone who experiences suffering from this person's negative actions sees how pointless acting like that is, and adjusts their own life to live more positively and without inflicting harm and suffering on others.. perhaps the one that did something wrong realizes the mistakes of his ways.
So, Lucifer gets his jollies because he has seen us take one further step towards evolving to a higher consciousness, and he calls us God, who he himself is a part of, and let's him know how this "free will" he developed for this galaxy is working quite well, better than the old model, Eden, that was set up..
Hehe, I like this one better.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: Lucifer [Re: DoctorJ]
#1937694 - 09/21/03 11:09 AM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
I have always intrepeted God and Lucifer like this:
God is light
Lucifer is the bringer of Light
God is
Lucifer does
That is quite the interpetation! Great, man!
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Adamist
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Re: Lucifer [Re: DoctorJ]
#1937957 - 09/21/03 01:17 PM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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That's a very similar interpretation to mine. 
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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wrestler_az
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Jellric]
#1938402 - 09/21/03 05:05 PM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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"I didn't state the passage was referring to Lucifer.
Just that according to this one book, God Himself creates evil."
i wasnt trying to say you did...but many people do. isnt isaiah the ony place in the bible that mentions the word lucifer? all i was trying to say is that we may be wrong in giving satan the name lucifer, cause i dont think that was what the passage was about. this fact was not intended to (and does not) change any of the ideas talked about in this thread. this has been an awsome thread...alot of good insight on good and evil... i have enjoyed it so far
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how's your WOW?
Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM)
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blahwhatever
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Swami]
#1938427 - 09/21/03 05:21 PM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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"I've been thinking about the story of Lucifer and how he "rebelled" against God by making his own creation, which is supposedly the reality we live in. " where did you read this story that lucifer made his own creation?It was gods creation of this world and his plan for it that lucifer didnt want part of or "rebeled"against.and then the rebelling son of the morning became lucifer the fallen according to the story.
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
blahwhatever said:
"I've been thinking about the story of Lucifer and how he "rebelled" against God by making his own creation, which is supposedly the reality we live in. " where did you read this story that lucifer made his own creation?It was gods creation of this world and his plan for it that lucifer didnt want part of or "rebeled"against.and then the rebelling son of the morning became lucifer the fallen according to the story.
Yeah, and God appeared on my wall this morning, too...
There is as much evidence saying that God created Earth as there is that Lucifer did, and none of this "evidence" is actually evidence at all... it all comes down to personal beliefs.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Vulture
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Quote:
isaiah 45:7 " i make peace, and create evil; i the lord do all these things"
i didnt read the whole thread yet but just something that has come to mind i would like to elaborate on.
Lucifer is a representation of evil and everything that goes against the WILL of god. Since god is everything and everything is god when looked at as a whole....then everything as it is and god would not be able to exist without these bad things represented as Lucifer. You cant have good without bad....it wouldent be good...it wouldent be anything. The fact that i am able to sit here and type this to you right now proves that EVERYTHING exits.
So we know that god is everything and all that. So we think well if the will of god is good and if god controls everything than why is there Lucifer and why are these bad things. But as i stated above...the bad things muct be in order for the good things to be...and just one glimpse of the ultimate truth is worth eternitys of suffering....for this ultimate truth is an unimaginable greatness.
i dont know if that made sense to any of you but i tried to put what i feel into words as best as i could
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Love like you never been hurt.
Dance like nobody is watching.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Vulture]
#1940446 - 09/22/03 11:25 AM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Vulture said:
Lucifer is a representation of evil and everything that goes against the WILL of god.
Since Lucifer is the Bringer of Light, who gave us the ability to exercise free will, I don't think it is fair to represent everything evil as him... he himself has done no evil (heh, how the fuck do we know he even exists...)
We don't know and don't have anyway of knowing the will of God, so us representing someone or some idea as everything that goes agansit the will of God is pretty pointless, since we don't actually know the will of God...
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Vulture
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Vulture said:
Lucifer is a representation of evil and everything that goes against the WILL of god.
Since Lucifer is the Bringer of Light, who gave us the ability to exercise free will, I don't think it is fair to represent everything evil as him... he himself has done no evil (heh, how the fuck do we know he even exists...)
We don't know and don't have anyway of knowing the will of God, so us representing someone or some idea as everything that goes agansit the will of God is pretty pointless, since we don't actually know the will of God...
Peace.
yes...but personally i dont look upon Lucifer as an actualy being....only a name used to represent a bunch of different things. I look at god in the same way...god is not an individual being...god is only a name used to make it easier to refer to everything. There is no reason for everything existing....the reason would be because of the infinite consiousness....which is everything. God is the infinite consiousness and ultimatly controls everything....every action had an equal and opposite reaction....every action is only a reaction to the action that caused it, eventually ending in the very first action caused by the existance of everything....it is because it is because it is and so on....
this physical plane is only a huge illusion that keeps us distracted from experiencing the truth. Time is only part of that illusion....therefore when you realize that time doesent exist...you realize that god is the only thing...we can become aware of this thing and become it...or become one. That is the only thing worth working for in these lives.
We might not "know" the will of god. To me....god doesent have a will....going back to what i said earlier about time...god is everything...it is THE essence...it doesent sit there and command shit. It doesent really have a will since time doesent exist outside of the physical...god just is...everything just is...without time everything just is all at the same time....although the same goes for the gross world...time makes us think that things are going on at different times...when really it all just is.
what is the best feeling in the world?
Love
you know how it is when you feel love...just imagine feeling love surged throughout your entire being infinitly intense....you would feel as if you were just one huge infinitely massive orgasm of all knowing and understanding bliss. That is god....and although the bad comes with it...it is nothing compared to the Love that is god. Love is the first thing...it is the first action that everything is a manifestation or reaction of. Why is it? it just is. How is it? it just is.....there is no explanation.
once you get a taste of what god really is....that feeling, better than any other feeling, that feeling that lets you forget about everything else and never want to come back...that feeling that you would never want to come back from....that is gods love...and that is what you will be. And once you get that taste you will realize that this is the only thing worth working for and that almost everything else going on in this world is a big pile of meaningless shit thats just keeping everyone from understanding the ultimate truth and that keeping everyone from working together as a whole to do nothing other than better mankind and to advance spritually.
once again i tried to convey what i feel as best i could with words...its kinda like discribing an egoless acid trip to someone...very hard to find words for it. But most of these feeling come from what ive learned from Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) The Tibetan Book of the Dead, Meher Baba, many other metaphysical books....and my personals expereinces in life with and without psycadelic chemicals and/or astral projection.
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Work like you dont need the money.
Love like you never been hurt.
Dance like nobody is watching.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Vulture]
#1940919 - 09/22/03 01:48 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Hehe, couldn't disagree with you in any way.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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MarkostheGnostic
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Aside from the rather benign 'satanism' of the late LaVey's Church of Satan, which was little more than a philosophy of self-indulgent egotism spiced with crude magickal intention and theatrics; and the Temple of Set - a spin-off from LaVey's group with a tad more malevolence, the real satanists of modernism have probably been groups of sexual sadists. If one turns to the latter part of the Marquis DeSade's 'Justine,' and looks for the Black Mass conducted by the flagellant monks of St. Mary-in-the-Woods monastery, one finds sufficient food for the creatively perverse mind.
A reading of Stan Grof's work on the 'Basic Perinatal Matrix III,' will illustrate psychologically how the torturous, constrictive, suffocating, terrifying phase of the birth process, impressed into the unconscious of the neonatal infant, can later emerge in all the leather, rubber, ball-gag-suffocation-threatening, restrictive, painful, blood-letting, fear-inducing activities of the sexual sado-masochist unconsciously reproducing this terrible phase of the birth process, which is simultaneously 'polymorphously sexual' (the infant's entire body is sexually sensitive, not just the genitals as in later life). Satanism is the symbolic representation of these dark, painful-yet-sexual experiences, and their celebration to the point of veneration - hence the dark, perverted symbols of Light (e.g., inverted crosses, sacramental feces and urine [as the Latin words that say that we are born "intra faeces et urinas," - between shit and piss - which does occur in childbirth, and is the source of these perversions], etc.). So satanist-sado-masochists are re-enacting negative intra-extra-uterine experiences, and symbolizing them with the trappings of black hooded robes (hoods are reminiscent of the clitoral hood, btw), dim lights (which can be perceived by the infant passing through the birth canal) and other weird-ass stuff.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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fireworks_god
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I just like the music and the leather and candles and such..
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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MarkostheGnostic
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Yeah, I like those things too...only without screams and blood and stuff.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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theshiftingwalls
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Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
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God does not exist. Evil only exist in your mind.
We all live in a simulated reality...
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Zahid
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Quote:
theshiftingwalls said:
God does not exist. Evil only exist in your mind.
We all live in a simulated reality...
You don't hang out in S&P much, do you.
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Jellric
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Zahid]
#1942724 - 09/22/03 10:07 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Who is your avatar, Zahid?
Is that Hazrat Inayat Khan?
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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Zahid
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Jellric]
#1942762 - 09/22/03 10:15 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Yep.
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Jellric
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Zahid]
#1942784 - 09/22/03 10:20 PM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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Ah, thought so. A great soul. Anyone who hasn't read his book, The Inner Life" has truly missed something.
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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Yeah, I like those things too...only without screams and blood and stuff.
Indeed. Dimmu Borgir tends to fill a musical urge.. They put on quite the show, too.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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