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Anonymous
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 Re: Lucifer  [Re: Ellis Dee]
#730612 - 07/08/02 04:54 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Adamist, I really like some of the ideas expressed in those quotes.
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Rail_Gun, you wrote:
Lucifer will do or say anything to decieve people from the truth
How do you know that those who transcribed the text of the Bible were not of the mind to do or say anything to deceive people from the truth?
Assuming there is any truth from either source, how do you know that the source of Adamist's quotes is not more accurate than the source from which you quoted? (please refrain quoting from the same book to support your arguments)
Oh, do you have any verifiable evidence of hell?
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 MarkostheGnostic
Elder
 
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#730615 - 07/08/02 04:54 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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It is NOT a Biblical idea that Lucifer [Greek: Light Bearer] created the cosmos. This is a strictly Gnostic idea in which a 'lesser god,' referred to as the Demiurge, misappropriated God's Eternal Wisdom, and created the cosmos. The Demiurge was, according to early Gnostics like Marcion, the god of the Old Testament. Somewhere in time, the Demiurge became equated with Satan [Hebrew: Adversary] - an angel who 'worked for' God (see the Book of Job). The OT Satan, was not the radical and rebellious devil of the NT. In fact, the doctrine of original sin that states that mankind has inherited sin from Adam, and is utterly depraved, is not an OT concept. Jews believe that mankind has an 'evil inclination,' the 'yetzer hara,' but not that we are damned from the start. This doctrine was later developed by Christian theologians to hammer us with the absolute necessity of the need for a Savior, without whom we are doomed to damnation. Damnation was only really suggested in the OT Book of Daniel as those who would resurrect to 'contempt' rather than to 'life.' Christianity, with the singlehanded vocabulary of the author Matthew, gave us hellfire and brimstone to contend with.
The 'shining one,' referred to as the mythological serpent on the Tree of Knowledge [Gnosis] of Good and Evil, later became identified as Lucifer, but the 'fall' of Lucifer and his angels is really only dicussed at length in the Pseudepigraphal Book of I Enoch. There is, very clearly, Good and Evil in the world. These have been broken down into different aspects like moral and natural, but almost always the categories relate to effects on human lives (although modern thinkers have expanded this to animal life and the ecosystem). A tornado is 'evil' inasmuch as it destroys, but is a natural phenomenon. A murderer is not natural, but moral evil, yet if we are all 'murderers from the beginning' as the devil is described, without redemption, then one could say a murderer is just being a 'natural man.'[ I prefer the Jewish take on original sin in this regard.] But I digress. Good and evil in every mythos that I can think of, has been personified. This is the language of mythology, Biblical or otherwise. Myth does NOT mean untrue. Myths are the colorful oral and written vehicles of spiritual truth. There may or may not be a historical aspect to myth. There is almost certainly a historical Jesus of Nazareth, but whereas most of us know evil when we encounter it, we usually do not see Satan or Lucifer as historical persons. They remain spiritual realities. However, both Jesus the Christ and the devil, participate in myth.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Lucifer [Re: ]
#732451 - 07/08/02 07:18 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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How do you know that those who transcribed the text of the Bible were not of the mind to do or say anything to deceive people from the truth?
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
--William Shakespeare
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#732533 - 07/08/02 07:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
--William Shakespeare
So can dead, white playwrights... what's your point?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Sclorch]
#732575 - 07/08/02 08:13 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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My point is that anyone can.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#732581 - 07/08/02 08:17 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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My point is that anyone can.
Okay.
So... is there some sort of inertial frame of reference that we should all use when reading the Bible?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Shroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...
Registered: 06/20/02
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 Re: Lucifer [Re: Sclorch]
#732671 - 07/08/02 10:05 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
--William Shakespeare
I think the point is...the bible is so losely termed and open for interpreation that very little can be determined from it. Anyone can twist it's words one way or the other to fit any number of meanings. Well put Bill!  Just my insight..
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Shroomalicious -  I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi
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Shroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#732685 - 07/08/02 10:20 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Adamist buddy...here are some of my thoughts...
I think Satan is either the Yin or the Yang in a needed prespective giving battle of good and evil. I think the reason, in the story, that he is evil is because he wanted to get credit. He didn't want to do things for the right reasons, he wanted to do them to satisfy his Ego. Now, if God gets mad at Satan for having an Ego than why would he get one himself? Either because he doesn't or because His Ego is so big that he can't take others. I think the first one is true. I actual believe this, and this is why I don't think God has an Ego per se. I don't believe in a vengeful and angry God.
Here is another, more (you could say) "odd" aspect of my point of view. I believe there is a specfic energy out there that you can put the title of "Satan" on, accurately. I believe this because I believe I have communicated with it several times.
I realised in these experiences that Satan's only power is the power to confuse and bring on doubt. He operates on a very intelligent "smoke and mirrors" kind of way. So, after I determined this I tried to conjure him up to literally take on the Devil one on one. Just me and the Devil all alone in the middle of some field. I was 110% sober. I plucked his Ego by challenging him and he arrived. I calmly told him what I thought of him...he is sad and evil and what drives him nuts is that the human race has twice the power "he" has, sometimes we just don't realise this. However, I do. He has no power over me and I can feel him try at times even now. He is far to weak and I can honestly say the Devil has got nothing on me and it knows it...believe it or not.
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Shroomalicious - I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Did you get to do the fiddle showdown / hoedown with him?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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N.I.B
Some people say my love cannot be true
please believe me, my love, and I'll show you
I will give you those things you thought unreal
The sun, the moon, the stars all bear my seal
Oh yeah!
Follow me now and you will not regret
leaving the life you led before we met
You are the first to have this love of mine
forever with me 'till the end of time
Your love for me has just got to be real
before you know the way I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
Oh yeah!
Now I have you with me, under my power
Our love grows stronger now with every hour
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
my name is Lucifer, please take my hand
Oh yeah!
Follow me now and you will not regret
leaving the life you led before we met
You are the first to have this love of mine
forever with me 'till the end of time
Your love for me has just got to be real
before you know the way I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
I'm going to feel
Oh yeah!
Now I have you with me, under my power
Our love grows stronger now with every hour
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
my name is Lucifer, please take my hand
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Ellis Dee]
#733406 - 07/09/02 09:15 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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What I find frightening is that there are probably hellish situations and places within our physical universe.
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3wolves
Stranger
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Revelation]
#733744 - 07/09/02 11:00 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lucifer is the Pharmacon. Satan is the Pharmacon. the Pharmacon meaning the primal original Sacrament, Fruit of the Goddess.
Whenever we explore this Deep territory we must be aware of the historical rise of the patriarchy and its suppression of the Sacrament through fascist means, and the attempt to totally eradicate any memory of our ages old relationship with sacred plants. please read Dan Russell's Shamanism and the Drug Propaganda for a much more indepth analysis.
What has/is happening is the supression of the unconscious! this device has caused extraordinary distress thoughout all the species of this world including us, and is rapidly destroying Nature itself. its mindset has created the concept of "mental illness" as a further means of suppressing the effect of its facism, mental disturbance being the natural consequence of a fascistic environment which inevitably breeds unhappiness in varying degrees. so the 'evil' if anything is the will to supress the deepest aspect of our being and our intimate relationship with Nature .
They/we have demonized our unconscious and Nature
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: 3wolves]
#734091 - 07/09/02 01:41 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think Lucifer is also what what none of us wish to look at in ourselves (our Shadow).
But we must look into it and accept it, because that opens up the possibility of redemption.
"The distressing struggle of integrating the shadow side of ourselves, of wrestling with the dark angel within, is ongoing and never ending for those who are willing to take it on. Jung considers it a moral task of the first magnitude, and given the godlike power conferred upon us most notably by the ability to unleash atomic energy, the struggle assumes an urgency and necessity for the future survival of our humankind. Let us hope enough of us are able and willing to enter the ring."
-from Thoughts on Evil, by James M. Shultz
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Adamist]
#734093 - 07/09/02 01:42 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- Jesus, Gospel of Thomas
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Adamist]
#734124 - 07/09/02 01:55 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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In reply to:
What I find frightening is that there are probably hellish situations and places within our physical universe.
Try Looking on earth. There is pain and suffering all around us.
People are dying from hunga,r war and torture. This probbably is Hell.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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llib
journeyman
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Posts: 129
Loc: florida
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Re: Lucifer [Re: Adamist]
#734218 - 07/09/02 02:31 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some of the posts are right on. Satan represents the negative energy. From a spiritual sense i term this the loss of atonement, one with godself. It is represented by the adam and eve story. From a spiritual senese I believe that this took place over many millenium. I believe that humanity had "godself", "oneness", but over time began to evolve away from the ....what I consider to be the only universal truth", we are all "of god" created by god, one with god. As Humans began to stary away from this truth, miscreations were made. Miscreations can be both true miscreation and false miscreations, together they form our perception of reality.
herein lay the real "evil" in our societies, the complete loss of teh atonement. When speaking of aura colors, i noted that there are some who are said to be old souls. I do believe that the old souls are finding each other and have been sent as "guides" teachers" lighters of the path back to spirtuality.
i havent figure it out yet, but I believe the mayan prophecies to be true. It has been shown that the mayan calendar is one of teh most accurate ever known. Based upon lunar cycles rather than sun.
At some point in time, i think it was a Pope, gregory decided to create the gregorian calendar. Hmmm, why do we have some months with 30 days, some with 31, some 28, leap years ect. Seems quite flawed.
Additionally, i believe that all religions are, OBVIOUSLY< man-made. many try to tell the same story. For instance , christianity was not really a well formed religion until over 300 years after the "resurrection , birth, death of christ.
In essence, Constantine, a Briton related to King herod, called for a meeting of over 2800 presbyters.....those preaching their own version of the christ story. Constantine saw this as a perfect opportunity to associate and assimilate church and stae=control of the masses. Constantine is said to have dismissed 70 percent of the presbyters that did not want to accept his version of the story.
The christ image, born to a virgin mother is not new and found in over 32 cultural storys, myths fables legends prior to christ's birth. I do believe that what christ represents.....unconditional love....is the true essence of the atonement, or teh return to the atonement.
i cant name all 32 but some are Mishra, in persia, the osiris, isis, horus story of egypt(in fact the picture of osiris with horus) have been mistaken by some christians to be that of the mary an dchild when in fact it is an egyptian picture. Thor in scandinavian folklore is another.
Additionally, i do believe that there is a 'quckening" occuring, whatever on emay want to define that as.....for me it is an increase in awareness, particularly of a resurrgence of positive spiritual energy. I do too feel that the "satan", luciferic consciousness, is being tested, i do feel that the luciferic consciousness has served to block the abilities of people from experiencing the 4th dimensional energy. i do not know hpow yet or how th epositive forces are increasing.......BUT I KNOW!!!!!!
Christianity has become avery profitable superstition........
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us". Pope Leo X (1513-1521). yet , i belieev that the unconditional love is teh spirtual atonement and feel that that is what christ represents , i know that is repetetive.
Catholicism, i was brought up this way, in my opinion is run by the "state" the Vatican, controlled namely by the cosa nostra, agrigento sicily is argentina, costa rica also a part of the control amongst other US corporations. It is a big money corporation. Another Pope, cant remember his name, somewheer around 1300 AD was teh one to institute celibacy into the church.
Previously, I noted a post that some of the "indigos" are androgynous. i do believe that females and males are one spiritually and there just manifest soem of the good and bad energies more so in both. men, bad-control, good-protection, females, good-nurture, bad -manipulation. Phyiscally the clitoris and teh penis are derived from the same tissue.
how does this fit, well I believe , and many know, sexual energy is huge, can be very spiritual and can be a link, like some of the taoist sexual teacher say a portal to the "window of spirtual awareness. when the sexes are made to be so separate , especially like the catholic instituted celibacy for their leaders, I believe that this pushes our spirits towards more of a luciferic consciousness. that is teh inability to experience the 4th dimension. Awareness, "quickening" ect sartori enlightenment
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: EvilGir]
#734221 - 07/09/02 02:32 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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People are dying from hunga,r
Look at me. I am suffering from Cheet-ohs and Diet Pepsi poisoning.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: Swami]
#734250 - 07/09/02 02:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess the your Very lucky then but what about the poor bastards in the 3rd world. They are great horrors in this world just because you dont see it dosent mean its not there.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire
Registered: 07/19/00
Posts: 11,004
Loc: further down the spiral
Last seen: 9 months, 21 days
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Re: Lucifer [Re: llib]
#734799 - 07/09/02 06:20 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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originally zoroastrianism
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RIP Acidic_Sloth
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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thePatient
Criminal Bodhisattva
Registered: 07/07/02
Posts: 3,289
Loc: Indiana
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Re: Lucifer Sacred Fruit of The Goddess [Re: EvilGir]
#735068 - 07/09/02 08:30 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Try Looking on earth. There is pain and suffering all around us.
People are dying from hunga,r war and torture. This probbably is Hell.
I once thought that life, as we know it, may be Hell. Or possibly Purgatory.
Purgatory - a place of cleansing - purge away our sins.
Purgatory is kind of the in-between heaven and hell. Well, what is life but the in-between heaven and hell? Maybe all of us on Earth, in this life, we're put here because we commited some sort of crime, or sin, not worthy enough to get into either heaven or hell. So this is where we went to redeem ourselves, or maybe condemn ourselves. Maybe our second chance. We come into life innocent as newborns and from there we have to make the decision of redemntion or condemntion ourselves. Because if we knew that this was purgatory, then we would live a biased life, only doing what we thought would get us into heaven. But us not knowing lets us make the decision through our character, personality or soul.
This thought came to me a long time ago when i was a questioning catholic. I am a catholic no longer. To somewhat believe in this you'd need to believe in Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory. I just thought I'd share that with you. 
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T h e r e a r e n o o r d i n a r y m o m e n t s.
Edited by thePatient (07/09/02 08:49 PM)
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