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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics
    #7299353 - 08/15/07 10:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"These seeds are highly prized amongst serious cacti collectors.  The "seed stocks of a lot of vendors are contaminated with cross-bred or misidentified species, and people are wasting their money.  We are proud to offer these seeds sourced directly from an esteemed part of the Matucana region of Peru.  With much variation occurring within the peruvianus species, Icaros DNA seeds are believed to have some of the truest genetics."


I read this on Ebay.com....http://cgi.ebay.com/Trichocereus-Peruvianus-TRUE-DNA-Peruvian-Torch-seeds_W0QQitemZ140148456936QQihZ004QQcategoryZ42211QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I recently got what I now believe to be a FAKE T. peruvanius...It's some other kind of Trichocereus cacti...i think....

So naturally I'm pissed...

What I'm looking for now are people who-

have cacti which they know to be high in chemical content

have eaten and tripped really hard

are 100% positively IDed

are from the actual geographic regions in which the cacti are natively used.


Can anybody help me??

PM me

or

post

here....


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7299409 - 08/15/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

you most likely got trichocereus cuzcoensis if its not peruvianus but looks similar.

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7299413 - 08/15/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ya I'm pretty sure thats what it is.


...is it active?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7299422 - 08/15/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

its the cactus that BBB was selling cuttings of labeled as "peruvianus"
from the 100+ trip reports that hit the nook, and here a year or two ago, it doesn't sound active at all. one guy drank 4ft of cactus made into a bowl of syrup and only got bad nausea.

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7299450 - 08/15/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

damn...Where could I get a REAL peruvanius?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7300626 - 08/16/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

What does Icaros mean?


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Offlinesupra
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7300642 - 08/16/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

it is a strain of peruvianus that is supposedly not hybridized or anything, the real deal...

peace

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Invisibledurban_poison
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: supra]
    #7301076 - 08/16/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

icaros i believe are songs that the shamans sing. as for icaros cacti its just the name of there company. peruvanoids/macronoids arent as uncommon as some people think you just need to have good id skills. need seed hit me up. need cuttings i may have a couple for trade depends what you have.

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7301083 - 08/16/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The fabled true Peruvian Torch, which is very much a reality, easily contains 3x the alkaloids of the common San Pedro. 95+% of the Peruvian Torch sold online is actually Trichocereu cuzcoensis. Icaros DNA is the real deal.

What you want your authentic Peruvian Torch to look like:



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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7304422 - 08/17/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

so are you saying Cuzcoensis are bunk??
or do they at least contain amounts comparable to San Pedro??

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Invisiblekybish

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: cpw1971]
    #7304494 - 08/17/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Im currently trying to root a Peruvian cutting from bbb, are you saying that all their cuttings aren't actually Peruvian torch cactus?

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304526 - 08/17/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

cpw, from what i've heard they don't contain much of anything.

Quote:

kybish said:
Im currently trying to root a Peruvian cutting from bbb, are you saying that all their cuttings aren't actually Peruvian torch cactus?



People need to be warned about these Vendors, yes including that one. They know they are selling cuzcoensis.

Edited by zekesdream (08/23/07 07:11 AM)

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Invisiblekybish

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7304541 - 08/17/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

how can they get away with something like this? isn't it outright fraud?

Well, now that I know my cutting is worthless, I guess I'm looking for a Peruvian cutting as well.

I got some torch seeds from them as well, is it right to assume they're also bunk?

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304576 - 08/17/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ya man we need to do something about this...somebody make thread about B.S. vendors...


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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304589 - 08/17/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Not sure about their seeds, but seed growing cacti is a lot of years and work to perhaps end up with yet another cuzcoensis. For this reason, seeds from any source is taking a chance. Cuttings however retain characteristics of the parent plant.

Fraud, yes I suppose. But what's anyone going to do? People who have bought cacti from them just need to share their experiences with others. It's really disappointing to buy a peruvianus and receive a cuzcoensis.

Seeds sourced from Matucana, Peru are the best bet for seed growing. The source mentioned earlier in this thread is one of those.

Keep in mind, Pachanoi and Bridgesii and others are also beautiful cacti and very easy to obtain.

Edited by zekesdream (08/23/07 07:09 AM)

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7304606 - 08/17/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I want the true blue scared Peruvianus...I would be soo disappointed if I don't have one in cultivation in the future....and eventually I want to eat one...

I have bridgesii and pan., they are great but not T. peruvanius...


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Invisiblekybish

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7304624 - 08/17/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I just got off the phone with bouncing bear botanicals

they said there isn't a sure way to tell if you have peruvian torch or Cuzcoensis. They "believe" that their cactus is peruvian torch.

Is there any sure way to tell what kind of cactus i have?

Also I'd take note that whom I was speaking to wasn't very clear, and didn't seem confident in what he was saying. He also said that I should speak with "trout" and that he could call me back if i so wish.

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304641 - 08/17/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kybish said:


Is there any sure way to tell what kind of cactus i have?






you could post a picture of it, and find out for sure very quickly. considering the source of your plant, i think you can already assume the answer. but if you want to be sure, post a pic.

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304648 - 08/17/07 11:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome man...do you think I should call them to just to piss 'em off?



I going to tell him that I'm informing the memebers at the shroomery and other entheobantical forums, I'm even going to tell him I'm going to inform erowid.com that BBB is "not sure" about thier cacti's ID....

Do you think I should?


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7304665 - 08/17/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Could the mod's start some kinda preputaul thread about incorrect botancial idtification by vendors so that N00bs do not continue to buy their B.S.?

Besides confusion and bad/wrong genetics are beibg spread by this.... when the noobs who bought from the bad vendors begin to sell their t. cuz and peruvianus and fake mimosa h.....


I want the entheogenic community of tommorow have peruvianus as strong as peyote....


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Invisiblekybish

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7304668 - 08/17/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Wait until we get some more confirmations that this is true.

I'll take a pic with my phone (its all I have) and get it up in a sec

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7304675 - 08/17/07 11:53 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

well you could if you want. i just suggest you learn from it, and share your experience with others so they know what's going on.

this site has an excellent collection of photos for identifying among Trichocereus: http://www.columnar-cacti.org/trichocereus/index.html

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Invisiblekybish

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7304697 - 08/17/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

pics








edit:

Sorry if I hijacked the thread, didn't mean to

I second for a BS vendors thread, but it should be locked in some way, sometimes these things can end up being misunderstandings. I want to be sure I got fucked out of my money before I start fucking them out of theirs.

Edited by kybish (08/17/07 12:04 PM)

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304737 - 08/17/07 12:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

not sure about the species on this one, probably a hyrbid. your pics should be good enough for someone to I.D. as more people take a look.

what i can tell you is that your plant looks just like others i've seen posted from customers of that vendor, and every single one of the postings i read was negative.

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7304754 - 08/17/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

lol white thorns

peruv my ass.
:stonedjerk:

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: kybish]
    #7304773 - 08/17/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

This thread might help: "Is this T. peruvianus or T.cuzcoensis?"
"http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6301951#6301951

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7304775 - 08/17/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ya your right...Let's get 10 confirmed people who are willing to give their actual names (I'll give mine) so BBB can look at their records and we have true hard evidence...

I'll demand they give the 10 people refunds for their t. cuz. (false peruvianus)...and post an apologise to the Entheogenic community on their website and discontinue selling of T. cuz as T. peru.....

If they do not do this I will join as many Entheogenic forums as possible and inform every entheogenic website I can about BBB and other vendors...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7304769/an/0/page/0


And help would be GREATLY appreciated...This is for the good of the entheogenic community....please contribute....


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Edited by Teotzlcoatl (08/17/07 12:25 PM)

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Invisiblekybish

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7304786 - 08/17/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'll be willing to give my real name for the cause

Now I can only hope the calea zacatechichi and morning glory I got from them is legit.

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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7304806 - 08/17/07 12:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

lol, slow down Teotzlcoatl. remember that anonymity is very important in these matters. you might have to fight this one a little more under the radar. posting your experience on here is great. not sure if you want to get your real name involved in this.

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7305037 - 08/17/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

why would I not wanna get my real name involved? I would only be giving my name to BBB so they can confirm I actually bought from them...I would NOT post it on the shroomery or give it to any other site/person...


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Offlinezekesdream
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7305131 - 08/17/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i guess i'm just cautious about these things.  it's a noble cause though, because they have been knowingly ripping people off with these bunk 'peruvianus' since at least as far back as 2006.  very unethical business practice.  shame on them.  :thumbdown:

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: zekesdream]
    #7305152 - 08/17/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

for real...fuck them! The bastards!


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7305192 - 08/17/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

bbb doesnt try to piss people off, they are trying to supply a friendly easy to use service. if you have a problem go to one of the many other sites, im sure if you were to bring it up they would obviously say our products are not for consumption so why would it matter if it contains mescaline.

Another point would be that if you check the botanical discriptions many books describe many of the Trichocereus as the same thing, with very little differentiating them.

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Legoulash]
    #7305280 - 08/17/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

They KNOW it it is not T. peruvianus but still want to make money so they call it that so they WILL make money...


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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7305846 - 08/17/07 07:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ok I hope this ones real. I grew it from seed and its almost a foot tall. also It is an indoors cacti so I am not sure it should be blue. I saw pics once of someones cacti that some had full sun and some mostly shade and the shade ones were skinny and green and the others were blue and fat.
but anyways this ones spines start yellow and then go black or dark brown......

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: cpw1971]
    #7305858 - 08/17/07 07:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

if thats not a peruv cpw, then its a cross with one. doesnt look textbook but it has a lot of peruv characteristics.

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7305866 - 08/17/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

dont forget it is an indoor one from seed and therefore will differ in looks.
  the vendor I got the seed from used to get his stuff from Peru.
  and no its not from BBB :thumbup:

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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: cpw1971]
    #7305874 - 08/17/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

pic of full cactus......

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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Trichocereus pachanoi and T. peruvianus Genetics [Re: cpw1971]
    #7305907 - 08/17/07 07:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I just want a vendor that's sells true blue 100% pure non-hybridized T. peruvianus...I'll go to Peru to get it if I have to...


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