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Anonymous

Swami
    #729546 - 07/07/02 03:17 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Do you believe in souls?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #729568 - 07/07/02 03:28 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

No.

To all of those who do believe in souls, do you believe that ants, algae and bacteria have souls?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #729590 - 07/07/02 03:40 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

So then you must believe that you are nothing but a body with a high-biotech computer that processes your thoughts and feelings? And you must believe that when you die there is nothing..just complete total eternal blackout? you must not have had deep trips if so.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #729597 - 07/07/02 03:43 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

And to answer your question, yes I believe everything has a soul that is considered living.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #729665 - 07/07/02 04:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

hey bro, saying that he doesn't believe in souls doesn't necessarily lead directly to what you said.

isn't arguing about the existence of a "soul" a bit pointless? what's a soul? how can you define it? how can you prove it's existence to yourself, let alone anyone else? where does it reside? what is it made of? what does it do?

it's like arguing about "free will", whether we have it or not we are still here, now, and we still have to decide what to do with that.

and do you somehow think that "a body with a high-biotech computer that processes thoughts and feelings" is a boring, mundane thing completely devoid of mystery?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #729674 - 07/07/02 04:13 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

And you must believe that when you die there is nothing..just complete total eternal blackout? you must not have had deep trips if so.

I have no real belief concerning death. I know that it is impossible to know, so don't even bother conjecturing.

On these boards, it seems that we must repeatedly cover tired, old ground.

Have you EVER experienced anything on mushrooms that you found out to be completely false? I guarantee that the answer is "YES" for everyone. Is the fear and paranoia real? (The fear is real, but it's basis is not.) Is your best friend REALLY trying to kill you? (from a shroomery Trip Report) Do you really believe that you have 3 eyes when you look in the mirror?

Please explain how the profound experience of a living creature in a mushroom delerium can possibly reveal what is beyond the curtain of death. Note that emotional impact does not equal truth.

disciple: "Master, what happens after death?"
master: "I don't know."
disciple: "But you are a Master!"
master: "Yes, but not a dead one."


If just ONE person brought back a piece of previously unknown data, then I might be inclined to believe that the mushroom dimension was more substantial than scrambled neurons.

I know that you are quite young, but why do you think that 95% (a guess) of the tripping populace stops before they are 30? Perhaps because they realize that nothing is really going on. Continued regular use does NOT equal greater wisdom, but a prematurely aging body and increased mental instability.

Why do I still do them? I find low doses to increase my musical creativity, though I use them quite sparingly. I occasionally like to trip under the stars by a campfire to increase my sensitivity to natural beauty.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineChubbSubb
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Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #729941 - 07/07/02 06:12 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I have no real belief concerning death. I know that it is impossible to know, so don't even bother conjecturing.

Good Point......


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #730077 - 07/07/02 07:19 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Everytime Swami has a really good post... many regular posters conspicuously don't reply.
I wonder why.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730115 - 07/07/02 07:37 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Swami has his beliefs, and I respect them. I don't feel a need to tell him he is wrong about not believing in a soul. I believe everything has a soul, that is my belief. I'm not in the business of changing people's beliefs, rather sharing mine with others and finding a common link between them. Arguing about the something that cannot be proven to science is a waste of breath.

Have you ever loved someone or do you love someone? Prove it.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730118 - 07/07/02 07:39 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

What's a soul?


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730124 - 07/07/02 07:40 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Life.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Adamist]
    #730132 - 07/07/02 07:42 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm, the force.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730136 - 07/07/02 07:43 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Consciousness


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730138 - 07/07/02 07:43 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

If you cut certain worms in two, both halves will regrow into whole creatures. So if I mutilate the poor critter, then I have just "created" another soul?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #730142 - 07/07/02 07:45 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

No, you would have seperated the creature's physical body thus creating a parrallel existance for it.


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #730153 - 07/07/02 07:48 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Yes I beleive in souls (what I consider a soul is probably not what most people may consider one to be)

Yes, I beleive ants, algae, and bacteria have souls. Even rocks, socks and polka dots!!!(Dr. Suess kick there)

Your right no one can know what happens after death, except those dead and dying of course. Why bother? I could give a shit less what happens to me, I've written in my will that I be put in a dumpster somewhere (but I don't think thats legal) when I kick it. Or at least cut me up and serve my body at a homeless shelter. lol!!


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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #730165 - 07/07/02 07:54 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

No you've created a very sad worm! But as I think the thinks I think I beleive both half's would have a soul, only smaller kind of.


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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #730172 - 07/07/02 07:56 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

So... souls have some weird proportionally correct link with matter?
If so, what's the difference between spirit and matter?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Swami [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #730183 - 07/07/02 07:59 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Then I would have created a Filet of Sole?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730186 - 07/07/02 08:00 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

From 3d perspective, they are polar opposites.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730196 - 07/07/02 08:04 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Seriously Shroomism, just stop talking.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730200 - 07/07/02 08:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I am typing. And I will stop typing when I am done.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730209 - 07/07/02 08:09 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

More egotism, eh?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730212 - 07/07/02 08:11 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

No, it is called Free Will


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #730221 - 07/07/02 08:13 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly!!

As far as I'm concerned, all a soul is, is the "energy" locked in each peice of matter. Some types of matter hold more energy others hold less. You can even add to and remove energy from matter. Each particle has its own energy, thus when you cut the worm in two each half retains the original energy that they had. As the worms grow more energy is incorporated.

Think of it this way. Most all of us know the law of conservation of mass. Say you burn a peice of wood, the resulting ashes and smoke weigh the same as the peice originally did, but you could see and feel light and heat energy radiating out from the wood. This energy is part of the "soul" of the tree being split apart and the energy is then added to the surrounding matter. And no I don't see how they are polar opposites, this would mean they would be repelled completely from each other, not intertwined.


--------------------
Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730235 - 07/07/02 08:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Too bad free will isn't always paired up with a decent pattern recognition system.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730242 - 07/07/02 08:23 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

^^^^ Ignored


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730245 - 07/07/02 08:27 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I'm trying to comprehend the general definition of a soul. If a soul is consciousness, its a yes/no kinda thing, right? either they are conscious or unconscious. so does every soul have the same substance(whatever that is)? I mean, is my soul equal to the soul of an ant or bacteria? or like Johnny said, is it proportional to matter? therefore, is a 2 year old human's soul comparable to my own? or to a 7' big fat guy? or maybe complexity... If a soul is life, what is alive - being conscious or aware of your existence? well i suppose to determine the value of an organism's soul, you would first have to determine its function and role in everything. if every soul is one soul in the One-consciousness then my value spiritually is the same as that ant...(a bit tangent) can that ant produce as much love or compassion or even these thoughts i have now?

There's no way that anyone will ever know until you die. although i must admit it is fun to ponder. the most that hard trips could ever do is expand the perceived 'possibilities' about the undefinable. they cannot give you something you don't already know, and yes that includes things you put two and two together. ah, this is definitely on the list of my favorite 'unknown/undefinable' questions.
what is a soul
what is consciousness
what happens after death
what is art
what is the purpose of life/existence/reality
is there life extra-terrestrially
vy am i drippings vif goo
how did i get here


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


Edited by Blastrid (07/07/02 08:30 PM)


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730285 - 07/07/02 08:52 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"Everytime Swami has a really good post... many regular posters conspicuously don't reply.
I wonder why."

Sclorch get off the bandwagon and start your own life.


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Re: Swami [Re: Swami]
    #730435 - 07/08/02 01:11 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

Continued regular use does NOT equal greater wisdom, but a prematurely aging body and increased mental instability.

Why do I still do them?




well, you dug your own hole here this time.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Swami [Re: mr crisper]
    #730445 - 07/08/02 01:47 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Some 10 trips in 20 years is not continuous, regular usage. Perhaps the word "abuse" is more appropriate for one of the main reasons most people quit, though it reeks of prohibition.

Now what hole did I dig?


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (07/08/02 01:49 AM)


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OfflineDivine_Madness
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Re: Swami [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #730512 - 07/08/02 03:21 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Mana


--------------------
its all placebo


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OfflineDivine_Madness
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Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #730513 - 07/08/02 03:24 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

Everytime Swami has a really good post... many regular posters conspicuously don't reply.
I wonder why.





And visa versa


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its all placebo


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #730557 - 07/08/02 04:17 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

What keeps you going in life Swami? Is the excitement of 'I don't know' ?
Yes, you see some bullshit on shrooms but there is sometimes the things you see that change your life because you *know* it to be true. And that it was a good deal more believable than just pink elephants floating aginst the wall.
And on my trip... Not even me being insane could I have fathomed up what i 'saw' and felt. I assure you there is life after death, eternal life.


Edited by dustin (07/08/02 04:22 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730863 - 07/08/02 07:16 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

me: Everytime Swami has a really good post... many regular posters conspicuously don't reply.
I wonder why.

hongomon: Sclorch get off the bandwagon and start your own life.

Just looking at the time stamps on all the posts. It's rather amusing to see how quickly things picked up after I made that post. I guess I struck a nerve with you guys and you just HAD to post after that. There is no bandwagon... 'cept the bullshit bandwagon... I'm guessing many people here (you know who you are) must have gold memberships. That's one club I won't be joining.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730912 - 07/08/02 07:49 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

yeah sclorch, you have such power that your posts urge others to redeem themselves... a bit conceited.

dustin, how can you assure anyone there is life after death? no matter what you saw or felt, it was fabricated by YOU. and only you and the mushroom. (this reminds me of discussing the existence of god with my girlfriend) how do you Know it to be true? the way i see it, no amount of faith, even if its every part of you believe it true, no amount of faith can equal 'knowing'. also, there's no way for you to completely show or explain to anyone what you saw and felt because we all know words cannot do justice to profound experiences on mushrooms.

also, whether or not we have a soul or if there is life after death is not the single drive in life. what keeps me going is the quest for knowledge, my love of being alive, and my love of music and being a musician. 'I don't know' actually drives me to discover more. i like it that way.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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Anonymous

Re: Swami [Re: Blastrid]
    #730934 - 07/08/02 08:01 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

If what I experienced (much better word to use than 'saw' or 'felt') was fabricated by me...theres shit in my head I never knew or thought about! how could *I* (being my body and brain) fabricate something I've never thought of or experienced before? ITS IMPOSSIBLE, especially to the extent that I went to. Next time you experience the never-endingness of the creator's thoughts come back to me and say you fabricated every bit of it.


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Swami [Re: ]
    #730966 - 07/08/02 08:15 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

well, i'm not saying you did not feel this completely profound experience. it's wonderful you have extracted new ideas from your trips. but it was produced by you and the mushroom's affect on your body. you ate the mushrooms, they have chemical influences on your mind and your thoughts, right? where else would you have gotten these new ideas? no where else than from yourself. you have new thoughts all the time, you fabricate something everyday that you've never thought or experienced before. i've never thought about discussing this topic on the Shroomery before... yet these thoughts are brand new.
i'm just saying unfortunately you can never fully explain your experience to us, and also no amount of thoughts, faith, or self-produced experiences will equal truth.

the only way you will ever surely truthfully concretely know is when you die. even then you cannot explain it to us.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


Edited by Blastrid (07/08/02 08:15 AM)


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Swami [Re: Blastrid]
    #730989 - 07/08/02 08:24 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

no amount of thoughts, faith, or self-produced experiences will equal truth.


Maybe not to you, but certainly to the individual it can.
What is truth besides conclusions based on experience?


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Swami [Re: Adamist]
    #731297 - 07/08/02 10:30 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

hm, very good point.
I suppose one's truth may not be another's. or rather, individual truth does not equal universal truth.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Swami [Re: Blastrid]
    #731413 - 07/08/02 11:33 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

yeah sclorch, you have such power that your posts urge others to redeem themselves... a bit conceited.

You missed my point entirely. I control only myself.
Just look at how active this thread got immediately after I questioned the number of replies to this particular thread. Usually, if a particularly good point is made by anyone that has doesn't just "go with the flow," nobody replies "hey, good post, nice job". But as soon as someone (me in this case) points this out, what happens? A bloodbath ensues and I somehow end up being branded the bad guy.

But, you know, you're right. I should just go with the majority opinion in this non-mainstream forum, because if it's not mainstream, it must be right. Right?
Take note of the sarcasm... most overlook it (I don't see how though).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Swami [Re: Sclorch]
    #731984 - 07/08/02 04:31 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I was only ribbin you for how you always seem to chime in after Swami. Like you're that little parrot in Alladin. But hey, it's only forum ribbing, ya know? Like in real life I'd have you in a headlock givin you one of them knuckle rubs, or you'd have me in a headlock, givin me a knuckle rub. Family stuff!

I'm only jealous I don't have someone worship me like that.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Swami [Re: hongomon]
    #732081 - 07/08/02 05:12 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

we really do waste a lot of time on this "spirituality and philosophy" forum reading and writing pointless bullshit, don't we?

here's a yellow smiley face with sunglasses on


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Swami [Re: Traveller]
    #732348 - 07/08/02 06:47 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Consider it compost. Good for the garden.

Here's another smiley face with sunglasses on--maybe they're related.

Hey, you never told me what southern Thailand island you visited.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Swami [Re: Traveller]
    #732363 - 07/08/02 06:50 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

here's a yellow smiley face with sunglasses on
How can you be sure that he's wearing sunglasses? It could be any black object, tape, a cardboard cutout, a mask...

What were you saying about pointless posts?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Swami [Re: Traveller]
    #733047 - 07/09/02 06:39 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Then don't waste, read or write.
About being pointless, concluding anything from this subject is pointless, it's based in what we believe about a state wich no one has returned, what we know are the descriptions of people being near that state and ideas from several religions.
I believe in a ordered universe wich controls existence in different states, death as we call it is a state were a small portion of the universe energy (we) changes from one state to another, you can call it soul to everyones universal energy if you want and call the universe, god.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Swami [Re: hongomon]
    #734308 - 07/09/02 03:00 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

i went to koh phangan, also koh tao briefly.


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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
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Re: Swami [Re: MAIA]
    #734312 - 07/09/02 03:00 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

good god man what are you talking about?


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
Re: Swami [Re: Traveller]
    #735387 - 07/10/02 01:12 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

What ?
Am i talking on another level or something ?
Must be my english...
Please, explain what you don't understand.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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