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OfflineHankHill
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thinking of starting a grow, a few questions
    #7291383 - 08/13/07 05:21 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hi, I have never grown mushrooms before, nor eaten them, and was thinking of starting up.

I was eyeing the growbags at http://www.mycofactory.com/
and so, which one is most useful? I have heard rye and straw work.

How much can I expect in dried mushrooms from just one bag?
In terms of inoculating, does it take an entire spore syringe per bag to inoculate? As in, if I wanted to have 4 bags going at once, would I need to get 4 spore syringes?

I was thinking I would like to get some sort of lockable safe or cabinet to do the grow in and put that in my closet, but according to this website the mushrooms need indirect light in various intervals to grow, is this so? What counts? Would a very simple lamp do the trick? I don't really want them sitting out in plain sight but that is where they would get sunlight from, and I'm not sure how I would get light into a locked cabinet.

Now for harvesting the mushrooms, do you have to destroy the bag to do so, or once they are harvested is the bag still in tact and will fruit a few more flushes?


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OfflineSimonJester
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7291447 - 08/13/07 05:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You have asked for quite a bit of information to be answered in any simple form. Read through more of the already written info on this site. Its time consuming, yes, but you will be much better off by actually learning. Rushing into a grow is a good way to waste money.


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Offlinewhiterussia
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7291858 - 08/13/07 08:02 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Try em first and read read read. A simple light would work. Mushrooms only need light to tell them which way to grow.


Read this :smile: It should clear up some things and a very strait foreword method.

http://users.lycaeum.org/~mushrooms/tek/SCGTv0.6.html

a video

[url=
&q=growing+magic+mushrooms]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286686859329905674&q=growing+magic+mushrooms[/url]

Hope it helps.


--------------------
When you make your peace with authority, you become authority. - Jim Morrison

The most loving parents and relatives commit murder with smiles on their faces. They force us to destroy the person we really are: a subtle kind of murder. - Jim Morrison


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Offlineresin
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: whiterussia]
    #7291875 - 08/13/07 08:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I would say a quarter ounce dry from a bag. You use 2-3 cc's of spore solution per bag, and syringes are usually 12cc, so you have roughly 4-6 bags worth per syringe.

A small 12" 10$ florecent tube light will work fine. I would get the grain loving mushroom bag(rye berry bag).

I would cut the bags open to fruit. Place them in a plastic tub with a quarter inch of wet perlite in the bottom, and a plastic fishtank screen to sit the bag-cakes on(as not to soak up the water from the perlite, and only get humidity).

You could make a plexiglass window in the lid, to get light through. Make 2 golf ball sized holes in the sides of the plastic tub, and put a big ball of polyfill(pillow stuffing) in each hole for air exchange. Simple setup


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: resin]
    #7291981 - 08/13/07 08:58 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

don't they fruit without putting them in a chamber?

http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek

actually i was thinking of doing the pf-tek it seems really simple.
he even uses drinking glasses instead of jars, i imagine this would be very very cheap, and steam is sufficient to sterilize rather than using a pressure cooker?

as for trying them before growing..... if i enjoy lsd will i enjoy mushrooms?

how adequate is this method's fruiting chamber, just basically some sort of tub with moist perlite in the bottom, covered by some sort of plastic at the top of it?

what happens if one keeps an inoculated jar and does not put it in a fruiting chamber, how long will it stay viable?


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Offlineresin
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7292012 - 08/13/07 09:13 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

They will, but it takes longer, and is less efficent. You can simply cut a square in the plactic lid, andsilicone/glue a peice of plexiglass to it. It works well, I promise you. This is also a terrarium used for pf-tek style jar fruiting

Pf tek works well, but it works better with jars, and a small pressure cooker, i wouldent cut corners.

If you like lsd, you should love shrooms.

If you refridgerate the colonized jars, probably a whyle. Im not so sure it will fruit without casing after long storage though, I would think it would have bad overlay, and would stall


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: resin]
    #7292032 - 08/13/07 09:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Do you have any idea how much the cost would be using then, jars and finding a pressure cooker?

Cutting corners is only because of fund issues really.

But then I see some discussion that a grain method is almost as simple as PF-tek and produces a much much higher yield. I really don't want to grow for very long and want to supply myself with a good amount of mushrooms, should I go through with it.


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7292100 - 08/13/07 09:53 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.fungifun.org/English/Grain-For-Simple-Minds
So for using rye, after this is inoculated I gather the procedure is exactly the same for fruiting and chambers and etc as the PF-tek, but produces a much larger yield?

they only instruct the putting of one hole into the lid and that it needs a polyfill filter.... is inoculation done by sticking the syringe through this hole, puncturing the filter or are other holes needed as well?


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7292190 - 08/13/07 10:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hank I've used both methods. I like both for different reasons. Yes you get massive yields off of Casings. But you aren't talking about doing a casing you're talking about fruiting straight from grain which in essence is a giant grain cake. I never tried that. I've been told by one person that did this that yields weren't that great. I've read about others that think it's all the rage. My advice is use PF-Tek. It is simple and inexpensive. I do recommend a pressure cooker and using the proper jars if you can find them. I suggest checking out the Thrift Store or Salvation Army stores. You can get really great deals there. Also e-Bay is an excellent resource for these materials. I'm not sure about the locker... do you have people going through your stuff a lot?

Anyway PF Tek would work nicely for you for a couple reasons.

It is conducive to stealth.

It costs very little material wise. Equipment can run you though. A case of 1/2 pint tapered jars is usually around 8-11 dollars at walmart. A pressure cooker at walmart is about $45. You can find them for less on eBay but they you pay shipping etc. I wouldn't get one that was smaller than 10 quarts. Like I said before check the Thrift Stores you can get awesome deals there.

PF Tek a good way to start learning sterile technique.

You can do it in really small batches at a time and still produce enough mushrooms to trip. Which I recommend for your first couple times out so if you mess up you still have left over spores.

Also I'll suggest that you learn how to make Liquid Cultures. It'll really stretch your mycology dollars. In fact I suggest it's the first thing you do after you buy a pressure cooker.

Finally, as mentioned above, before you do anything at all. Read read read read and read some more. Did I mention read? Because reading is important. The archives on this website contain just about anything you could possibly want to know about how to grow. There are just absolutely tons of posts on how to do grow mushrooms. Read them all and also watch the RR videos. In fact BUY the RR videos.

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/1809563.html

You can't go wrong with those. I know you said cash flow issues. Think of these videos as an investment in the future of your growing experiences. My bet is you'll SAVE money by watching these videos. How? By not messing up and ruining good substrates and spores.

Good luck HH!


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: chucklehead]
    #7292228 - 08/13/07 10:50 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i never really have anyone in my place, but if i did i wouldn't want them to see mushrooms growing lol

i suppose it is not really necessary to get a locking cabinet.

so liquid cultures.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5238137#5238137
consolidating my links here for ease of reading

this is to replace the use of spore syringes, i.e. you can store this liquid culture for quite a while and create it with the spores of the mushrooms you grow, to keep sustaining indefinite growth without the need of new spores, but
this still has to be injected into the substrate jars anyway?

when is the liquid culture made and why? after you are almost out of spore syringe material?

this is all very interesting, and i wish legal :smile:

i will see how my next acid trip makes me feel about psychedelics before fully deciding but it looks like a rewarding hobby.

i thank everyone for their help.


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7294471 - 08/14/07 06:04 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well part of learning LC is learning sterile procedures and how to make a syringe from LC. Not tricky really. I always make my LC before I start my substrate jars. It's worth the wait. You can turn one syringe in to hundreds. Plus LC gives you a head start in the colonization period.

Generally speaking I use half a syringe to make three jars of LC. Why three jars? because one might be bad or two might be bad. How do you know? Put some on agar. I know I keep opening a new bag of worms each time I offer you one more tidbit. This is why I suggested you get the RR Videos. They'll explain about everything you need to learn to get started.

Back to explaining LC. I generally put two CCs of spores in each LC jar that I make. Then I grow them out until I have a nice fat cloud of mycelium. Then I get out a four brand new syringes and suck up some of the LC into them. Then I drip a couple drops from each syringe on two agar plates each. Now I know if my syringes are good by what grows in the petri dishes. Is that a required step? No you can go straight to injecting your jars if you like. You just risk not knowing if your syringe is any good or not. Thus risking your substrate. I like checking first. That way if the petri dishes both go bad from a syringe I know the syringe is bad. If all my syringes from one jar show contamination in the petri dishes I know that the jar is bad. So I toss them and go to the next jar. It just makes dollars and cents is all. If you're going to grow a lot LC just plain rocks. What you spend in petri dishes and agar and syringes ( assuming you don't reuse them ) is nothing compared to the cost of buying spore syringes. Let's imagine one jar of LC can only make 20 syringes. If you pay $7.50 ( which is a super great insane good deal ) a spore syringe that's $150 in syringes you just saved. That's a lot when you compare it to the $10 in petri dishes, $5 in agar, and $20 in syringes you used to make your own.

Yeah I know it's a lot to think about. As we all will tell you just keep reading and it'll come together for you sooner or later.

This hobby is very rewarding if you can stand the slow nature of it and the work involved.


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: chucklehead]
    #7298101 - 08/15/07 06:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you for responding again....

this doesn't sound too hard, complicated per se but this also makes it fun.

But so, I am thinking of jumping right into this.... I am thinking of waiting until I take acid with a friend of mine though to really see how I feel about tripping.

I don't want the growth of mushrooms to just be a power thing and a great hobby, I mean, sure that would be good and rewarding but not really worth it if I don't like to consume them right?

hmmmm.

So I ran into some random fellow last night and he was saying that you ought to have your spores shipped to an address other than your grow. I never said anything about wanting to grow but we were talking about mushrooms and the topic of growth came up and he just randomly said that.

So, I went to the post office and asked about general delivery, what I am wondering is that, if I order with a credit card will they send it to general delivery or will i need to list that as an alternate address with my bank?

and i could just send a money order then general delivery would definitely work much saner than getting a post office box for 6 months..... however i have to wait a lot

and really i cannot fathom how ordering with a CC would put anyone in any sort of jeapordy

do the people here generally order with cards?

i went and looked around, wal-mart has the canning jars i need, i can get brown rice flour and vermiculite, and a pressure cooker. it's all within my current budget.

i don't know about the video though, it is probably a good investment..... maybe while waiting for spores i'd might as well wait for video?

so i can mainly ask right now then, how much dry yield can i expect from doing the PF tek on 6 or so jars, and
if i mix substrate and sterilize right away can it sit in the jars for a few weeks before being inoculated, or should i only prepare them when i am right ready to inoculate?

Edit: ouch that dvd set is too expensive for right now.
i am confident in my ability to do this successfully.


Edited by HankHill (08/15/07 06:33 PM)


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7298528 - 08/15/07 08:58 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Is an incubator irrelevant if the home environment is kept around 75-80 degrees ?


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7299019 - 08/15/07 11:09 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah don't sweat the incubator.  I don't even bother anymore I just put jars and casings on shelves or in ordinary totes. 

Make your jars the day before you inoculate to give them enough time to cool.

I order stuff every which way and I send them right to my house.

Dry yeild really depends on a lot of factors. 

A cake might look like this.


Or like this.

Or like this.


Here is one of my fruiting chambers a few weeks back.


See how the size and quantity varies from cake to cake?  It isn't exactly an equation where one cake equals 3.5 grams.  Which is part of the reason I do 12 jars each batch.  Sometimes you just get screwy genetics in a given cake when you use multispore LC.  Some will flush more times than others.  Some will flush better and faster than others.  Plus now that I have discovered the joy of doublestacking I'm able to fit more production in one fruiting chamber.

That brings me to another point which is actually YES it is worth it even if you don't like the mushrooms.  I trip maybe once a month.  I grow mushrooms all the time.  It's fun.  I'm freakin' addicted.  I'm always growing more ways new strains trying new substrates etc.  It's exciting to watch the little guys grow.  Plus then you can find all sorts of weird stuff to do with your mushrooms.  You can dry them and grind them into powder.  You can exctract the psilicin and psilisybin crystals in alcohol.  Then you can add them to the punch at the home owners associations.  Ok I made that last part up.  I never did that.  Sure would be fun though :smile:  Anyway the point is that it is a very fun hobby.  No one said you had to grow magic mushrooms.  You can try Oysters, Beech, Shiitake, or any number of other edibles.  That'll save you $$ if you like mushrooms.


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: chucklehead]
    #7301327 - 08/16/07 04:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

very interesting

i think i am going to do it

i'm debating holding out til the lsd is in my system, and out of it, vs just going ahead and ordering right now. because it is a good point i would like to grow shitake and etc too because i need PROTEIN i'm a skinny d00d

now i'm watching the youtube videos and at the end of the last one 'lets grow mushrooms part 4' he talks about growing them from the jar without dumping the cake, but is he just talking about shitake for doing that?

so if i double stack i do the same process of rolling the cakes in the dry verm after dunking, but then i water the top of each stack now and then?

for a fruiting chamber, i don't have a drill and borrowing one would yield questions i might have to invent lies for
can you just use hammer and nail to create the holes in the chamber?

how necessary is a glove box? and this video makes me think a pressure cooker is not that needed....... but my budget could probably alot me one.

the spore site i'm looking at says ordering packages when it is above 90 degrees f could kill your spores, should i take heed on this? is it a security concern to order UPS + tracking number to keep the package in a cooled truck? I suppose its no different than getting the USPS to send it to you.

i'm thinking of doing golden teachers or koh samui
i heard a user say that he has tried many strains and finds koh samui to have very nice visuals in comparison

i don't know if that is so, but thailand culture is also neat with all the buddhism

golden teachers look very pretty though and i would like pretty mushrooms.

can reishi be done on BRF?


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OfflineCheesekiller
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7301529 - 08/16/07 05:54 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

That video will scare any nubie from even trying. I don't use a glove bo, or flowhood or even gloves. Wash you hands with antibacterial soap and lysol the area. No Smoking!!

I like the bulk b/c you get such a strong substrate that contams don't ever bother me. I use wild bird seed, although rye is probably easier.

Colonize your jars, pasteurize your substrate (horsepoo), mix the jars with the colonized grain. Colonize that, case with a 50/50 mix, colonize that for a while, then your fruits will be jamming. Check this double tub TEK.

I swear it is easier than it looks

-CK


--------------------
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  Cloning Machine 
   
Nice Lids

A few pics of my DT setup


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7301553 - 08/16/07 06:00 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

That's a lot of questions.

Yes a glove box is a must. That is part of learning sterile technique. You just have to be as clean as possible when doing injections.

Koh Samui wouldn't be a bad choice for a beginner. It's a fast colonizer and a fast fruiter. I never ate one yet but I have some in LC right and some on grain too.

Golden Teacher is very agressive on grain and in cocoa coir but I never tried it in a cake. It seams counter to the point of the Golden Teacher to grow it on a cake. They don't make lots of fruits but they do grow large fruits. If you don't have enough nutriants and water resevior to support a large mushroom it'll just grow small. Though I'll tell you Golden Teacher is one of my favorite to eat.

I buy spores year round without a problem. Though I suppose it's possible it could be an issue.

Regarding Shiitake in the jar. Yeah he is talking strictly about Shiitake cakes.

Regarding doublestacking: You mist the cakes double stacked or not with a misting spray bottle no fat drops or streams. Do this a couple times a day if possible. Misting is supposed to be done such that you point the nose of the bottle upward and spray such that the droplets sprinkle down on top of the cakes or casings.

There are other ways of making holes in the fruiting chamber. I've used a red hot mail. Just make an alcohol lamp and get some vice grips and a large diameter nail. That's how I made several Mini RR style fruiting chambers out of those giant Sam's Club pretzle barrels. It takes a lot more work and it smells the place up a little though.


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: Cheesekiller]
    #7301607 - 08/16/07 06:20 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cheesekiller said:
That video will scare any nubie from even trying. I don't use a glove bo, or flowhood or even gloves. Wash you hands with antibacterial soap and lysol the area. No Smoking!!




chucklehead,
so even stacking cakes, golden teacher wouldn't be good for this method?

well the videos don't scare me at all actually it loots legit and simple and to the point.

now I'm sure that tek isn't too much harder than PF but this is a lot to get going for the first time and I've already saturated my mind with PF-tek and scouted out all the things I need to buy and settled for its method.

what is the advantage to doing that instead ,
i assume with PF i will be able to have more mushrooms than i am capable of eating...... given there is no real limit to how many cakes can be fruited at once and the liquid culture supplies us with an indefinite amount of spores, no?

well actually liquid culture question
so when we have this LC and we make spore syringes out of it, does some of the spore syringe that contains LC go into the same process to make MORE LC, or do real legit spores from the mushrooms we grow ourselves have to go into making more LC ?

i.e. if you squirt a tiny bit of LC into another solution will it grow more mycelium for you to make much more spores?

then spore question
i want to have the spores shipped to post office and i asked the post ofcice and they said i could have things sent general delivery

but since general delivery is not the address on file with my bank will my order be cancelled if i have it sent to general delivery but charged to my billing address?

i am a kid in a toy-store, or a gnome in a forest.

and i don't want to melt plastic, hammering nail holes out to work fine right?

oh and the light process once the jars colonize do they no longer need any light, so can fruiting chambers be kept in closet and out of sight?

i would assume spore syringes are reusable, and that when you clean and sterilize it you can use it to put LC in, right?


Edited by HankHill (08/16/07 06:54 PM)


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OfflineHankHill
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7301783 - 08/16/07 07:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I've decided given the heat and everything that I would get UPS shipping to address to ensure safety, given ordering spores is a one time thing given the capacity to make liquid cultures.

i decided to go with reishi and golden teacher

supplies will be collected in a few days to prepare for growth and i am going to do PF tek
will make a glove box and hope that it is not expensive to buy a hammer and a nail.

given that i won't buy a pressure cooker this is all within my budget and i should have roughly $10-20 grace for the month in terms of procuring a knife or hammer and nail or something of the sort, so it should go pretty smoothly.


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: thinking of starting a grow, a few questions [Re: HankHill]
    #7302677 - 08/16/07 11:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Make holes how ever you like but a drill works best in my opinion. They make such a thing as hand powered drills. I don't know what they cost. Also be creative about selecting your FC container. You don't have to just buy a tub. I use all kinds of crap. Some examples are huge pretzle containers from Sam's Club. Empty peanut butter tubs. You know the ones that are mega huge that you get when you buy off brand peanutbutter. Empty plastic peanut jars. Empty clear two liter bottles. Just cut them in half. There's a tek out there somewhere called Poor Boy's Terrarium or something like that. I've seen some pics of people doing it.

Golden Teacher is good stuff but don't expect plentiful yields.

I don't know much about reishi except that it looks like a contamination to me not like something I'd want to eat.

I advise you to shop the thrift stores, garage sales, Craig's List, or eBay for a deal on a pressure cooker. I wouldn't do LC without it. Some people do. I have had zero success doing it without a pressure cooker.
Quote:


well actually liquid culture question
so when we have this LC and we make spore syringes out of it, does some of the spore syringe that contains LC go into the same process to make MORE LC, or do real legit spores from the mushrooms we grow ourselves have to go into making more LC




You can do both. When the LC starts not producing so well anymore after having made a new LC out of an old LC several times, you start a new one using either store bought spores or your own from previous grows.

Let me clarify on the double stacking. I only did it once but it appears to cause more pleantiful yeilds not necessarily larger mushrooms. I've got mushrooms equally large off of single cakes. In fact the double stack developed lots of scraggly mushrooms with thin spindly stems. I like those though. They are easier to dry. Big fat thick stems are a nightmare to get dry. Takes forever the way I do it.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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