|
 Mark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
 Re: Nonviolence and rationalism  [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7273885 - 08/08/07 10:31 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I didn't say you shouldn't have compassion for yourself.
Genuine compassion doesn't seem to work in a "one or the other" sort of way. Its not a choice between compassion for yourself or compassion for others. Like you said, "it is a state of being".
and again with the "defend myself" comment, as if I'm claiming you shouldn't. 
--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary
Edited by Mark_W (08/08/07 10:38 AM)
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
 
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: Mark_W]
#7273933 - 08/08/07 10:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mark_W said:
and again with the "defend myself" comment, as if I'm claiming you shouldn't.
Now now... stop making decisions or calculations for others.
Also you didn't answer what exactly would you do in that scenario with a guy getting close to you, having a gun is his hand and having bad intentions in his eyes.
All in all, you're free not to defend yourself as I am free to do so 
--------------------
    
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Mark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7273976 - 08/08/07 11:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
you say "stop making decisions or calculations for others". What are you talking about there? The part you quoted was in reference to the fact that you continue to say things like "I have a right to defend myself" and as I've already said, I agree with this and always have. I have never said that someone should not defend themself.
Again, it's the means that we are discussing.
We cannot predict exactly what we should do as every situation is different. If you have a feeling of genuine compassion this will lead you to doing the right thing whatever that may be at the moment. This seems vague and unsatisfying to people who want answers as simple as "grab the gun and kick him in the shins", but violent responses are always easier to describe as they are not subtle like compassion is.
--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary
Edited by Mark_W (08/08/07 11:34 AM)
|
 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
 Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: Mark_W]
#7274060 - 08/08/07 11:30 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I have never said that someone should not defend themself.
You've also not explained how you would non-violently defend yourself against a determined attacker coming at you again and again with a knife.
What would you do? Use harsh language? 
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: Mark_W]
#7274070 - 08/08/07 11:32 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
If you have a feeling of genuine compassion this will lead you to doing the right thing whatever that may be.
You know... this sounds like if you have faith in god he will lead you the way. 
What the fuck ever...
You'll need to be more specific than that... HOW exactly do you know what to do?
Why won't you answer my question when if comes to the example I gave you?
And what in the world is "the right thing"? Is there a thing such as the right thing? How do you conclude what's right and wrong? What if your "compassion" fails and besides you getting killed, other 10 people get killed too, by the same guy? 
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Mark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7274106 - 08/08/07 11:40 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Like I said, the important thing is not what you do. Any mechanical action you take is pointless if you do not have a genuine feeling of compassion for the other person. Love is subtle. There is no way of predicting beforehand what you will do or say when you are inspired by it. Sorry, I could use my imagination and come up with a few things, but they would come off as trite and insincere since it's not about mechanically doing anything, its mostly about feeling genuine compassion.
I could more easily reverse your scenario and say "what if your violence fails, and this further aggravates the violent person and they kill 10 more people?" This seems much more likely to me as violence ultimately only begets more violence.
--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary
Edited by Mark_W (08/08/07 11:46 AM)
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: Mark_W]
#7274124 - 08/08/07 11:46 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Sort of like that?
I give thou compassion and thou shalt listen... 
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Nonviolence and rationalism [Re: Mark_W]
#7277792 - 08/09/07 12:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The way I see it, the idea of "right to life" should not be understood as a total prohibition of killing people regardless of circumstances, but rather as a recognition of a natural right, in the sense that it is unreasonable to expect anyone to agree to a contract where one of the terms is that they give up their life. All such contracts are void a priori.
By extension, no law should be enacted that makes it criminal for a person to hold on to something that is his natural right.
The canonical natural rights are the right to life, the right to liberty, and the right to own private property. However this doesn't mean that it's never "right" to kill people, or to lock them up, or to confiscate their possessions. It just means that you shouldn't have laws that say all jews must die, all pot smokers should be locked up, all capitalist pigs must be dispossessed, etc.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Shop: Red Vein Kratom
Edit 
Reply 
NiamhNyx
1 2 3 4 ... 10 11 all )
OrgoneConclusion
aelephant
Kiafi
fivepointer
justAkid
Positronius