Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Our prayers are with you...
    #7262600 - 08/05/07 03:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How many times do we hear this concerning some tragedy or illness?

Reality takes its own course, but we will attempt to void causality by getting on our knees and mumblings words to ourselves and pretending some caring, non-existent deity will change its mind.

Me no get it.


--------------------

Edited by OrgoneConclusion (07/21/10 11:34 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7262623 - 08/05/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

People are used to the idea of someone/something having authority over them. Voila... :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7262895 - 08/05/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i think true prayer is transmission of healing energy,

false prayer is just mumbo jumbo words in the illusion of mind

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263003 - 08/05/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)



I like this explanation of the power of prayer.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7263030 - 08/05/07 05:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

that guy needs to not have an annoying voice, if he wants me to listen

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263038 - 08/05/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You think orgone conclusion has an annoying voice?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7263040 - 08/05/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

no, the guy on that video you just posted

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263049 - 08/05/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
How many times do we here this concerning some tragedy or illness?

Reality takes its own course, but we will attempt to void causality by getting on our knees and mumblings words to ourselves and pretending some caring, non-existent deity will change its mind.

Me no get it.




As many philosophers and physicists with the mental capacity to work on a metaphorical level have shown time and again that causality is an illusion. It is simply a function of time, which is a concept used to describe the change in an objects position in space. Causality infers that one event is a precursor to another event occurring within a tridimensional creatures limited perception of time. When a person is able to "see the forest from the trees", they recognize the Hindu concept of the Linga Sharira, or Long Body, and the truth behind the invention of Alan Watt's new words "gowith" and "goeswith".

I never "here" this, because I don't try to use prayer to manipulate Reality or the supposed will of the Absolute. But I have heard it used naively. In the same manner with a different perspective, the very same words could altogether hold a much higher wisdom.

Again, you speak in absolutes, as if you hold the "truth" you aim to disprove. The quoted post is riddled with logical fallacies.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Edited by jonathanseagull (08/05/07 05:12 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7263061 - 08/05/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I did not watch the video, but what is the point of explaining the power of something with zero efficacy?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263064 - 08/05/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well the video is from http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/

It is a video showing why prayer has no power at all. If you go to the website it has a written explanation that goes into great detail about studies that show prayer has no effect at all and other clever arguments based on the gospels.

I guess you watched only the first few seconds, which sort of sound like its promoting prayer. It's not.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7263067 - 08/05/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The quoted post is riddled with logical fallacies.





It is so 'riddled' that despite your lengthy post denying physics and the way everything works in the REAL world, not one was mentioned.

Good job.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263111 - 08/05/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

The quoted post is riddled with logical fallacies.





It is so 'riddled' that despite your lengthy post denying physics and the way everything works in the REAL world, not one was mentioned.

Good job.




There was no denial of physics, just an inclusion of a higher understanding of physics and an explanation written from a elevated perspective that you've seemingly not discovered. Thanks for the compliment though. And that was a highly successful attempt at diverting attention away from your post. Good job.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Edited by jonathanseagull (08/05/07 05:31 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7263117 - 08/05/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:

what is the "real" world anyways?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263184 - 08/05/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

onlynow said:
:thumbup:

what is the "real" world anyways?




Definitions for real:

Quote:

re·al1      /ˈriəl, ril/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ree-uhl, reel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent: the real reason for an act.
2. existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.
3. being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary: The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.
4. being actually such; not merely so-called: a real victory.
5. genuine; not counterfeit, artificial, or imitation; authentic: a real antique; a real diamond; real silk.
6. unfeigned or sincere: real sympathy; a real friend.
7. Informal. absolute; complete; utter: She's a real brain.
8. Philosophy.
a. existent or pertaining to the existent as opposed to the nonexistent.
b. actual as opposed to possible or potential.
c. independent of experience as opposed to phenomenal or apparent.
9. (of money, income, or the like) measured in purchasing power rather than in nominal value: Inflation has driven income down in real terms, though nominal income appears to be higher.
10. Optics. (of an image) formed by the actual convergence of rays, as the image produced in a camera (opposed to virtual).
11. Mathematics.
a. of, pertaining to, or having the value of a real number.
b. using real numbers: real analysis; real vector space.
–adverb
12. Informal. very or extremely: You did a real nice job painting the house.
–noun
13. real number.
14. the real,
a. something that actually exists, as a particular quantity.
b. reality in general.
—Idiom
15. for real, Informal.
a. in reality; actually: You mean she dyed her hair green for real?
b. real; actual: The company's plans to relocate are for real.
c. genuine; sincere: I don't believe his friendly attitude is for real.




:strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263252 - 08/05/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

thanks brains

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263256 - 08/05/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Any time... skulls :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263261 - 08/05/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

lol

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263267 - 08/05/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

REALly though, i wouldn't have actually ever thought about trying to understand the real world through definitions

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263285 - 08/05/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So if a friend tells you he ate acid how do you know what he's talking about?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263300 - 08/05/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You most likely have to have had a firm grasp on reality to see past it....  :wink:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7263302 - 08/05/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

what does this have to do with anything?

Edited by onlynow (08/05/07 06:47 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263310 - 08/05/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Reality is defined, with, definitions....    :shiftyeyes:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7263313 - 08/05/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

my reality is defined through experience...

what reality are you living in?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263325 - 08/05/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

onlynow said:
what does this have to do with anything?




Well there is a definition for acid so you know what your friend is talking about...
It has to do with the discussion we were having :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7263341 - 08/05/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

there is also an experience to acid, in which i have had.  so i would definitely know what hed be talkin bout :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,032
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7263346 - 08/05/07 06:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Our prayers are with you.

How many times do we here this concerning some tragedy or illness?

Orgone many times do you hear that? I rarely hear that, and when I do the person is usually either politician or an elderly unmarried women.

I don't hear run of the mill, everyday Christians saying that...

Is this something the Christians on TV are saying these days?

Where are you running into all these people that would drive you to ask such a question?


I have always thought that when people say, our prayers are with you, it was just sort of a polite phrase that sounded pleasant in the same vein as, God bless you and Have a nice day. Anyway that's how it sounds to me when people who are saying it, who are not politicians, Jeez, even when the elderly unmarried women say it sounds like a polite interjection. Are you tone deaf?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263347 - 08/05/07 06:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You wouldn't know what he was talking about if you didn't understand the words coming out of his mouth, duh. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263348 - 08/05/07 06:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yes and you know what acid is because you observed it's effects on you.
So you defined it... :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7263361 - 08/05/07 06:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i thought we were originally talking about definitions based on words?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7263426 - 08/05/07 07:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Orgone many times do you hear that? I rarely hear that




Faithful Pray for Collapse Victims

ALL the time... :smile:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,032
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7263472 - 08/05/07 07:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:shrug: God, must steer me clear of this sort thing, most of the time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: falcon]
    #7263834 - 08/05/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

When I read that people in the hospital who were prayed for...not empty words mumbled or otherwise but a sincere request that this person's destiny take a turn for the better, those people, who didn't know they were being prayed for, had a higher rate of healing than a group they were compared to who were not prayed for...I found that interesting. Then again, you can find a "study" that will support or undermined any theory you wish to uphold or bring down.

Could we not conclude from the fact that the laws of physics are SO awesome in their complexity that the universe could not have big-banged into existence to be so awesome and complex?

It's sad when disenchantment with organized religion blocks the ability to see that even one cell on my pinky is more complicated than my computer and therefore, if my computer couldn't evolve no matter how long you gave it...neither could something as complicated as an entire human being. imo


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7263871 - 08/05/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I would say we evolved, with evolution being in accordance with a divine guidance. It's not that creation happened. It's that creation is happening.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7264039 - 08/05/07 09:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

When I read that people in the hospital who were prayed for...not empty words mumbled or otherwise but a sincere request that this person's destiny take a turn for the better, those people, who didn't know they were being prayed for, had a higher rate of healing than a group they were compared to who were not prayed for...I found that interesting.




Sincerity directed towards an imaginary being has no more affect than insincerity.

The study you mention has NOT been reproducible. What most likely happened is reporting bias. Test A has a slightly negative result due to chance - no report. Test B has a slightly positive result due to chance - hallelujah!

Somthing that works rarely has such ambiguity to it.

Quote:

Then again, you can find a "study" that will support or undermined any theory you wish to uphold or bring down.




Disregarding the occasional Windows crash, local power outtage, or component burnout, my computer works nearly EVERY time I fire it up.

There is NO ambiguity. Beauty and perfection!

Studies are ONLY required when results are vague and hard to pin down, yet the Bible declares that ALL who sincerely ask for a healing in the name of Jesus shall receive it. A very non-ambiguous declaration, yet healing and recovery time is no faster for Chritians than for atheists.

What more is there to discuss when one has to twist and turn the data to attempt to find some minisicule (read: non-existent) affect?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7264138 - 08/05/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't think God is some big genie in the sky. I went 20 years without getting any more prayers answered than were allowed by chance. I'm not bitter about that either, because I realize how naive it was to try to bend the will of God around my own unaware will. Now I understand more, and my prayers are prayers of thanks and acceptance of what is. Accepting what is is surrendering to the Tao, or will of God. Then, and only then, is every prayer already answered.

So yes, the Bible's guide to prayer may not work. But whoever said the Bible was an authority on prayer or God, other than itself and those who believe in it?


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,032
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7264162 - 08/05/07 09:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure about the laws of physics, I think the big bang theory is unnecessarily complex, I don't buy it, you don't get something from nothing.
How it all began, don't care, seems to be running along fine without my knowing how it's running along fine or how it was started.

Evolution is awesomely complex.

Prayer helping people remotely cutoff from those on the receiving end of the prayer :shrug:, don't know, don't put much thought into it.

Prayer help, for those in close proximity to those praying, maybe, maybe by acting to calm those who are in position to help those being prayed for or by keeping those who pray out to the way of those who are in position to help those who are being prayed upon.

Course, this thread is about petitionary prayer, which I don't buy into in the least, cause the way it was explained to me,  prayer is communion with God, it is not asking for favors, the only thing that you get out of prayer is the experience of prayer.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7264234 - 08/05/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MyInnerChild said:
When I read that people in the hospital who were prayed for...not empty words mumbled or otherwise but a sincere request that this person's destiny take a turn for the better, those people, who didn't know they were being prayed for, had a higher rate of healing than a group they were compared to who were not prayed for...I found that interesting. Then again, you can find a "study" that will support or undermined any theory you wish to uphold or bring down.

Could we not conclude from the fact that the laws of physics are SO awesome in their complexity that the universe could not have big-banged into existence to be so awesome and complex?

It's sad when disenchantment with organized religion blocks the ability to see that even one cell on my pinky is more complicated than my computer and therefore, if my computer couldn't evolve no matter how long you gave it...neither could something as complicated as an entire human being. imo




:smile: the mind will never be able to keep up with nature's complexity


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7265040 - 08/06/07 02:48 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Prayer works better, if one also will engage in the achieving of the results :cool:
That may be called, 'praying for oneself'.
If this works, one may pray for others as well, but shouldn't stop engaging :lol:
That's because g*d (or the interdimensional conscious connection) can only influence things, if humans came to the limits of their capabilities, which doesn't include 'ignorance' :sun:
:shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7266407 - 08/06/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Sincerity directed towards an imaginary being has no more affect than insincerity."

'You reap what you sow??'

Its about you.
180 degrees out of phase.
"g*d (or the interdimensional conscious connection)"
Its inside.
Denying this aspect of yourself or anybody else is... Well, silly.
I feel that when dealing with the reality of God within, insincerity is only a hindrance to development.
Praying is backwards if your looking into the sky.
Its about the tips of the tree.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7266950 - 08/06/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


the Bible declares that ALL who sincerely ask for a healing in the name of Jesus shall receive it.

What more is there to discuss




To the first line of the above quote:
Not in my bible it doesn't. lol There are many more sources for spirituality, healing and prayer than this one take on it that you are referring to and seem to take all your issues with. My guess is you were hit with a ruler by a nun in elenemtary school. lol

To the second line in the above quote...there may be more to discuss outside the box you feel so comfortable in. It's pretty high up it seems since the tomatoes you toss keep splatting so messily with such absolute statements as there is nothing more to discuss. then why post at all?


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7266967 - 08/06/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].




Which Bible are YOU reading?

Quote:

one cell on my pinky is more complicated than my computer and therefore, if my computer couldn't evolve no matter how long you gave it...neither could something as complicated as an entire human being.




Actually, the complexity of that cell is what gives credence to the theory of evolution. The computer is uncomplicated AND inert, thus does not have the means to participate in the evolutionary process. It does not reproduce, is manufactured (not grown from DNA), and in no way approximates an actual form of life.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7266975 - 08/06/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

MyInnerChild, personalisms are against the rules of this forum.

Please don't to it again.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
    #7267002 - 08/06/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Really, well that is all well and good but I watched two people with cancer that were very sick get healed instantly. A girl at our church tried to concieve and her babie was missing half of his brain, suffered from water on the brain and had a rare disease that only several people have ever had. They ran all the tests over and over and told her to abort,and that if it was even alive when born it would be a vegetable. She stood in faith that God would heal her baby, explain it how you want but he was born perfect, with a complete brain and the water was gone. Or the woman 12 yrs ago who upon having a sonagram was broken to find her baby had no arms and legs, again they wanted to abort, and again another member of my church got a miracle. In the last month the arms and legs grew in. I got Hep C sharing needles with a person who had full blown AIDS, I got Hep C, but not AIDS, to me that is a miracle, that is God watching out for me. Just the healing that I got was enough to make me stop running...


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267031 - 08/06/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

All very nice to hear but do you have proof of any of it? Even a newspaper article or something? :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Icelander]
    #7267034 - 08/06/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Who needs proof when you've got FAITH?  :wink:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267038 - 08/06/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Mark 11:4 is an accurate translation. It is saying that if you pray skeptically your prayers wont be answered but know you have it, the greek means visualize it and it will be yours. God along with the context of Romans 4:17 "...and God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they are" That is speaking of Abram changing his name to Abraham which meant Father of many nations, an 80 yr old with no kids. So everytime he introduced himself he would be asked how many kids he had and when he said none he looked like a nut...but he stood in faith and took the first step and when he prayed his focus was on the fact that he knew God had already delivered on the promise though he did not see it and after trying to speed up Gods timing and a whole lot of Drama for his semi-disobedience God kept his promise and Isaac was born. Along with the feud between the Israelis and Palestinians over who was the rightful 1stborn since Abraham slept with his servant at his wifes request cuz they felt God was taking too long. Ishmael was the bastard son...Anyway you get the idea. Many prayers aren't answered because of a lack of faith on the part of the person praying them. So many are answered...I just have to disagree....my prayers are constantly answered for the most part.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267045 - 08/06/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

And how exactly can you prove these things happened or if they did how can you prove it was because someone prayed?

And com on... grew legs in the last month? :what: :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267054 - 08/06/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Really, well that is all well and good but I watched two people with cancer that were very sick get healed instantly

I doubt that. It would have been on CNN at the very least.

She stood in faith that God would heal her baby, explain it how you want but he was born perfect

Ditto.

TwiztidShroom, splain something to me: Why doesn't God EVER heal amputees? Eh? :dumblol:

He heals brain-missing babies, but he never puts back some poor guy's leg? :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267066 - 08/06/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The question is--what would have happened if you had not prayed for event X to occur?  Is it likely that circumstances would have been altered considerably in the absence of petitionary prayers?

IOW, I recently received a raise at my new job.  I had been concerned about my finances, and probably would have prayed for more money if I were the religious type.  Lo and behold--I got a raise!  Of course, I had been hired on at a training rate, and told that I would receive a raise once I was fully trained, so that raise would have happened soon, anyway.  If I were religious, though, I would claim that God had heard my prayer & motivated my boss to give me more $$.

:shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267076 - 08/06/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
Mark 11:4 is an accurate translation. It is saying that if you pray skeptically your prayers wont be answered but know you have it, the greek means visualize it and it will be yours. God along with the context of Romans 4:17 "...and God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they are" That is speaking of Abram changing his name to Abraham which meant Father of many nations, an 80 yr old with no kids. So everytime he introduced himself he would be asked how many kids he had and when he said none he looked like a nut...but he stood in faith and took the first step and when he prayed his focus was on the fact that he knew God had already delivered on the promise though he did not see it and after trying to speed up Gods timing and a whole lot of Drama for his semi-disobedience God kept his promise and Isaac was born. Along with the feud between the Israelis and Palestinians over who was the rightful 1stborn since Abraham slept with his servant at his wifes request cuz they felt God was taking too long. Ishmael was the bastard son...Anyway you get the idea. Many prayers aren't answered because of a lack of faith on the part of the person praying them. So many are answered...I just have to disagree....my prayers are constantly answered for the most part.




How about those proofs I requested. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7267090 - 08/06/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The kid is twelve yrs old and has limbs...I wasn't in the hospital with the lady but I see the kid. As for the baby with the Brain problem he just had his review and it is a medically documented miracle...I'm sure you will see her on the news in the coming year giving her testimony. How can you prove it wasn't God? Is an arm or a leg too much for a God that created the universe. Or how about the big bang? Without an intelligent designer it couldn't have happend. Physicists will even admit that before the big bang the laws of physics didn't exist...so what caused the bang without physics. Furthermore and explosion in space would cause the matter to continue to separate at the exact same rate of the explosion indefinitly and science has said if the earth was an 1/8 inch in any direction it would not support complex life, only bacteria. You need more faith to believe in science then you do to believe in God. There are a lot less holes. Darwins thoery combines so many fields of science that every field just assumes that the crazy things they can't explain that would debunk the theorey must fall under someone elses field...meanwhile the are no further provin it from the beginning. And you criticize people of faith, most who are trying to be better people and live good lives. I realize non believers do that too but if I am wrong, nothing lost. If you are wrong there's hell to pay....I really don't feel like I am on the rediculous end of the stick. Plus I Ihave studied the the NIV,NLT,NRSV,ASV,MKJV, Amplified, Analytical literal translation along with the Wescott-hort greek manuscripts, the textus receptus, and the sinaticus. I check the greek to make sure the translation is specific to the meaning. The dead sea scrolls proved that our present manuscripts are legit and not tampered by the Roman Catholic Church. There are non Christian accounts of a few Romans who hated Christians and the talk about how the expected the Christians to disappear but they came back twice as strong after the crucifixion...that backs up the Bibles report of when they said he rose. You can't even debate if Christ was alive cuz it is a historical fact. The debate is over the ressurection.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267096 - 08/06/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ice , I'll go back and read cuz I missed something.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267101 - 08/06/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You need more faith to believe in science then you do to believe in God.




Quote:

Faith (pertinent definition)
2 a  (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God  (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b  (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof  (2) : complete trust




Nope, sorry, but that simply does not make sense.  Science does not function without proof, whereas belief in God has no basis in proof.  Anyone who claims that science is about faith does not understand science.  :shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267104 - 08/06/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

sounds like just another story of the past to me..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7267105 - 08/06/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Really, well that is all well and good but I watched two people with cancer that were very sick get healed instantly

I doubt that. It would have been on CNN at the very least.

She stood in faith that God would heal her baby, explain it how you want but he was born perfect

Ditto.

TwiztidShroom, splain something to me: Why doesn't God EVER heal amputees? Eh? :dumblol:

He heals brain-missing babies, but he never puts back some poor guy's leg? :rolleyes:


Whos to say he hasn't. That wouldn't make the news. There are thousands of Christians who have gotten healed and you will never hear it...why would a world not of God proclaim his existence. Satan isn't looking to give God free publicity. I don't care what you believe.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267111 - 08/06/07 05:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Lot's of :blah: but you didn't address the fact that God never heals amputees. How can that be??

Whos to say he hasn't

I do.

Prove me wrong with a link to a news story.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267119 - 08/06/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm...so we never hear about any of the many, many healing miracles God performs because Satan doesn't want us to?  :rolleyes:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267121 - 08/06/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It didn't make the news that after the tsunami aChristian Colleseum in SriLanka was the only thing standing. This site was a miracle to begin with since there is a law stating that noChristian church can be bigger than the largest mosque. The largest mosqe is 3500 people...the colluseum wasn't totaly built but held 15,000. The also failed to mention that it wiped out what was basically the epicent to the three religions most in opposition to Christianity...go figure.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267146 - 08/06/07 05:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

This site was a miracle to begin with

That was no miracle. It was left standing because the reptilians from Orion put a force field around it. And it wasn't in the news because the reptilians put electronic mind-control devices in all the Jews' heads and everyone knows that the Jews control the media.

You people don't know nuthing! :dumblol:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267149 - 08/06/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Are you claiming that this coliseum was the only building in Sri Lanka not destroyed by the tsunami? Because this is blatantly untrue.

The buildings which fared best in the face of the storm were those with two or more stories, built of reinforced concrete. Smaller buildings, those too close to the shoreline, and those built without proper reinforcements did not fare as well. No miracles required.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267180 - 08/06/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I didn't mean it like I watched cancer shrink, I meant it like they looked like they were almost dead and they showed up in church one day normal. That is a healing. There are many unexplained phenominon that take place in the medical community. The news rarely ever reports anything remotely true, at least not without a liberal twist...unless you watch fox which can be biased in the other direction. Happy people , healings and God don't sell news, only televangelism...which is manipulated and twisted buy many.... Anyone who works in an ER will tell you what it looks like when a person gives up their spirit and it is obvious


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267184 - 08/06/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

No I was claiming that all the surrounding buildings in it's area were severely damaged and it wasn't even completed and was still standing.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267194 - 08/06/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Heb 11:1 A.L.T " Now faith is [the] assurance [or, substance] of [things] being hoped for [or, being confidently expected], [the] confident assurance [or, proof] of things not seen."

-the greek is expounded in brackets.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267197 - 08/06/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

A coliseum built to hold 15,000 would be constructed with reinforced concrete & held to much higher engineering standards than the smaller structures in the surrounding area.  Now if it was a grass hut on stilts, we might be talking exceptional, if not miraculous.  :wink:

Quote:

Heb 11:1 A.L.T " Now faith is [the] assurance [or, substance] of [things] being hoped for [or, being confidently expected], [the] confident assurance [or, proof] of things not seen."





OK, so are you saying that this quote means that faith = proof? 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
    #7267245 - 08/06/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

You need more faith to believe in science then you do to believe in God.




Quote:

Faith (pertinent definition)
2 a  (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God  (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b  (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof  (2) : complete trust




Nope, sorry, but that simply does not make sense.  Science does not function without proof, whereas belief in God has no basis in proof.  Anyone who claims that science is about faith does not understand science.  :shrug:




At the same time, I could argue that science is a belief system, or religion, that definitely has it's doctrine.  Theoretical Physics has as much dogma and ways to be blasphemous as any religion, as does other types of science.  But I also understand the "proof" part.  But again, I could argue that the person who does not think science includes faith in it's correctness doesn't understand science.  In the end, science is a study of phenomenon within the universe.  All phenomenon are relative in nature, only being compared to a differing phenomenon.  Beyond relativity, is the Absolute, which some would dare to label as "God".  This is why the argument of physics versus metaphysics doesn't make a lick of sense.  "Meta" infers "beyond physics".  Physics can't explain metaphysics.  It's beyond it's own scope.  It's a fruitless effort.

I think that physics can expose the silly 'metaphysics', but when you get down to the true metaphysics of the philosophers with mental capacity to explore the furthest reaches of human consciousness, we are ALL just scratching our heads.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7267307 - 08/06/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I could argue that science is a belief system...



And you would be wrong! :nono: This has been explained endlessly on these boards yet some still fail to grok this simplicity: science is a method, not a belief system.


*gets on knees*

"Dear FSM, please make the magic power run through my computer and sprinkle fairy dust on the internet servers so that if I believe hard enough, I may be able to log in to the Shroomery. Amen.*


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7267350 - 08/06/07 06:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Orgone Different sciences differ from eachother. The chemists guidelines are defined by the complex parts where the biologist observes it in action. They each have a mindset to "the way things are" but all believe they are right. So to get past the holes in evolution one must have faith we just haven't figured it out yet but it is still true, or since it isn't completely proven it could be tossed as incomplete or untrue since there is no complete equation for Darwins theory...that is faith...I guess that makes you wrong about faith...even you need it cuz Darwin's theory is called a theory because to date it hasn't been proven a fact!


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267357 - 08/06/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Veritas, the structural integrity of a building with the front and top missing is very little. Telephone poles and hoeses are chucked like nothing in a hurricaine...you think a half built structure would take a direct hit?


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7267417 - 08/06/07 06:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I could argue that science is a belief system...



And you would be wrong! :nono: This has been explained endlessly on these boards yet some still fail to grok this simplicity: science is a method, not a belief system.




It must not be too simple if so many fail to grok it.  Please take the time to copy and paste, or reexplain it for me.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267609 - 08/06/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Dip- Okay, I'll keep the perosnalisms in check but saying there is no God may not be a personalism...but it's a dietyism and hopefully we won't all get struck by lightening/have our non-evolving computers crash because of it lol. :smile:

Veri- When I said "that's not in my Bible" I wasn't referring to the (accusation that it is ridiculous that the) Bible extols one to pray, but rather the part of that accusation that referred to praying to Jesus specifically.

Human cells haven't evolved before or since they were used to hold the dinosaur bone and Mastodon tail hair brushes that wrote this on cave walls: "Insanity is Hereditary...You Get It From Your Kids". lol :smile: The complexity speaks of a single higher power imo.

Tra la.


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7267659 - 08/06/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It takes a lot more faith to "just believe" in the fact of evolution rather than accept that it has never been labeled anything but a theory by the scientists who theorized it.

Darwin believed in God.

Perhaps we should organize a trip for Science-head Shroomerites to some Eastern countries where we will delve into ideas that go beyond that which can only be accepted if proven. Ideas that other intelligent cultures have studied and theorized about from a time WAY before Darwin.

If you go on this trip...or a mushroom trip which enlightens you to a worlds beyond that which is proven by science, I wish you well...
and my prayers will be with you.

Now THAT'S funny!


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineungroov
meandering fool.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 73
Loc: ridin that southbound tra...
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7267675 - 08/06/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

to the original poster: next time someone says this phrase to you simply ask what they mean. more often than not you might catch someone off guard and make them think about the cultural phrases we say, regardless of where we are from, there are many phrases out there that have ambiguous meanings (like the one you post) that kinda catch the rest of us unawares and feeling a lil left out.
point is, there are many manners in which we as humans reach out to support other humans, and this can be one way to do that.
whats interesting is that so often religions get so caught up in religion and trying to fit God into a man-made box of culture, that in trying to positively benefit others around us we neglect Gods very message of love and support and wisdom in doing so. example: in spreading knowledge about Jesus' teachings, a christian would hatefully argue a point, fail to empathize, make enemies, forget the golden rule, and fail to wash the feet of the ones whom he despises.
other point: we have the opportunity to befriend and support EVERYONE we may come into contact with. just step inside someone elses shoes even before you meet them...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: ungroov]
    #7267718 - 08/06/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ungroov, well said, yer right and i'm guilty of it too....


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7267741 - 08/06/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

it has never been labeled anything but a theory by the scientists who theorized it

This statement tells me that you don't seem understand the principles of the Scientific Method.

EVERYTHING in science is theory. There are no facts in science. It was the Atomic Theory that incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nobody has ever seen an atom. They are theoretical constructs. Were those atomic bombs fake because the Atomic Theory is "just a throery"?

As far as evolution, what science has is a fossil record showing a gradual progression of species morphing one into the other. The depth from the surface at which each of these fossils is found correlates with how long ago the animal died. That age estimated from the depth where the fossil was found can be independently verified by radio-carbon dating. There are also several other obliquely-related methods of determining the age of a fossil, and they all independently agree.

Recently was discovered a fossil with feathers AND teeth. It was the missing transitional fossil linking the evolution of birds to dinosaurs. More evidence supporting evolution is being discovered all the time.

You can chose to ignore all this and an avalanche of additional evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution, but you'd only be fostering ignorance.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7267806 - 08/06/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps we should organize a trip for Science-head Shroomerites to some Eastern countries where we will delve into ideas that go beyond that which can only be accepted if proven. Ideas that other intelligent cultures have studied and theorized about from a time WAY before Darwin.

If you go on this trip...or a mushroom trip which enlightens you to a worlds beyond that which is proven by science, I wish you well...




This statement assumes that "science-heads" who don't believe in a supernatural Creator/Big Daddy have NOT experienced and thoroughly explored such subjective realms.  The fact that we do not come to the same conclusions that you and a few others have does not mean that we are ignorant of said realms.

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, those "intelligent" cultures that theorized about the Universe "WAY before Darwin" could have been incorrect?  That, maybe, just maybe, wild experiences on mushrooms are NOT the most accurate or credible means to deriving one's personal belief system?

Just a thought.  :grin:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7267818 - 08/06/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
Veritas, the structural integrity of a building with the front and top missing is very little. Telephone poles and hoeses are chucked like nothing in a hurricaine...you think a half built structure would take a direct hit?




Yes, obviously it could and DID. So did many, many other structures that were NOT dedicated to the worship of the Christian God. Is it a miracle if a luxury hotel made it through the tsunami? What about a hospital? A library? A mansion?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
    #7267820 - 08/06/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It may not be the answer to everything but those 2 types of trips could really open some inner/third eyes or call it what you will. lol Just a suggestion. :smile:

None of us has been through it all and been able to come to unequivocal conclusions about the universe have we? It seems to me that each of us, from his or her own perspective/school of thought are taking the theories and thoughts our professors professed about....and sharing them as fact. I feel that part of the problem begins not b/c we are/were too literal and too young and open to suggestion but b/c the lessons were presented as fact in the first place and in too many cases.

The universe is open to yet be explored but this time by US...and to come to OUR conclusions even if the professors professed convincingly and some of what they said is based on fact.

We all could stand to wake up in the morning and, hopefully after feeling gratitude for being alive, to look in the mirror and say: "Question yourself...."


P.S. You didn't address how it could be that Darwin believed in a singular creator. Was he a simpleton in that way or brainwashed? Perhaps a creator could cause the world to develop over time...if you can make a world...you can make it as fast or slow as you like...hey...it's your world. :smile:

Edited by MyInnerChild (08/06/07 08:35 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7267828 - 08/06/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not opposed to spiritual reasons for inner/outer travel, but I think that it is a HUGE assumption to say that those who state that evolutionary theory is correct & the existence of God is not evidenced would be "enlightened" by Eastern religions and mushrooms.

What if the so-called "science-heads" are already enlightened?  :grin:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
    #7267949 - 08/06/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I'm not opposed to spiritual reasons for inner/outer travel, but I think that it is a HUGE assumption to say that those who state that evolutionary theory is correct & the existence of God is not evidenced would be "enlightened" by Eastern religions and mushrooms.

What if the so-called "science-heads" are already enlightened?  :grin:




I'd say this post was the first I've read from you that was open and not angry. I "hear" enlightenment in this one lol huggles.

If one could prove the existence of a singular creator there would be no free choice...another good subject to explore.

Free choice or predestination...? I believe we are pre-destined to have free choice...whatta ya think o'that? :laugh:

Lve ya!
MIC


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7267974 - 08/06/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Angry?  Do I need to be angry to participate in a debate?  You're way off. :lol:

As to the "free will" debate, I find it about as interesting as watching Golf.  Each to his/her own, I suppose. :shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7268024 - 08/06/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I "hear" enlightenment in this one

What qualifies you to judge enlightenment?

The way I see it, an enlightened person would not judge another, and the rest of us are not qualified to judge others. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7268625 - 08/06/07 11:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I "hear" enlightenment in this one

What qualifies you to judge enlightenment?

The way I see it, an enlightened person would not judge another, and the rest of us are not qualified to judge others. :shrug:




Me judging? I ROTFL ....I thought Veri and I were having a lighter exchange finally...with some :smile: etc. till you judged that I'm judging...that's funny all by itself.
Of course I don't know who is and who is not enlightened. Rolls eyes.

I won't protest too much here since you seem to have made up your mind.
Go on then....
Have a good one! g'night all.
xxxooo MIC


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7268655 - 08/06/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

it's ok, you seem like one of the open ones... i don't think diploid should be talking about judging :smile:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMyInnerChild
EveryMum
Female


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 1,099
Loc: North-East
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: onlynow]
    #7268684 - 08/06/07 11:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

onlynow said:
it's ok, you seem like one of the open ones... i don't think diploid should be talking about judging :smile:



Uh...excuse me if I sound distracted...I'm looking at that prophet looking pic and shaking my head trying to figure what to make of it...lol
Thanks for the positive vibes....
I got blasted for trying to defend you in another forum which shall remain nameless....so I guess we're even. :smile:


Hugs all around..to y'all

Bye


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7268693 - 08/06/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i didn't need to be defended, but thank you anyways... im just stating what i observe, thats all :smile:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 11 years, 27 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7269495 - 08/07/07 08:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Really, well that is all well and good but I watched two people with cancer that were very sick get healed instantly. A girl at our church tried to concieve and her babie was missing half of his brain, suffered from water on the brain and had a rare disease that only several people have ever had. They ran all the tests over and over and told her to abort,and that if it was even alive when born it would be a vegetable. She stood in faith that God would heal her baby, explain it how you want but he was born perfect, with a complete brain and the water was gone. Or the woman 12 yrs ago who upon having a sonagram was broken to find her baby had no arms and legs, again they wanted to abort, and again another member of my church got a miracle. In the last month the arms and legs grew in. I got Hep C sharing needles with a person who had full blown AIDS, I got Hep C, but not AIDS, to me that is a miracle, that is God watching out for me. Just the healing that I got was enough to make me stop running...




So you believe that god answers our prayers, heals babies, grows back arms and legs..

I will ask you one thing.....why are there so many god-damn spams about penis-enlargement pills.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: shakercee]
    #7269504 - 08/07/07 08:40 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shakercee said:

I will ask you one thing.....why are there so many god-damn spams about penis-enlargement pills.




Obviously because god doesn't want us to have sex. :lecture:

:shrug:

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 11 years, 27 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7269622 - 08/07/07 09:35 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

shakercee said:

I will ask you one thing.....why are there so many god-damn spams about penis-enlargement pills.




Obviously because god doesn't want us to have sex. :lecture:

:shrug:

:lol:




:yesnod:  :lol:

God created man in his own image...hmmmm.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7269660 - 08/07/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Without an intelligent designer it couldn't have happend.

Really? How couldn't it have happened?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7269667 - 08/07/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'd say this post was the first I've read from you that was open and not angry.

Wow are you projecting or what?:rofl2: Veritas rarely if ever gets angry but is often accused of it by those who don't have an logical answer to the questions she poses.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: shakercee]
    #7269784 - 08/07/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shakercee said:
Quote:

Really, well that is all well and good but I watched two people with cancer that were very sick get healed instantly. A girl at our church tried to concieve and her babie was missing half of his brain, suffered from water on the brain and had a rare disease that only several people have ever had. They ran all the tests over and over and told her to abort,and that if it was even alive when born it would be a vegetable. She stood in faith that God would heal her baby, explain it how you want but he was born perfect, with a complete brain and the water was gone. Or the woman 12 yrs ago who upon having a sonagram was broken to find her baby had no arms and legs, again they wanted to abort, and again another member of my church got a miracle. In the last month the arms and legs grew in. I got Hep C sharing needles with a person who had full blown AIDS, I got Hep C, but not AIDS, to me that is a miracle, that is God watching out for me. Just the healing that I got was enough to make me stop running...




So you believe that god answers our prayers, heals babies, grows back arms and legs..

I will ask you one thing.....why are there so many god-damn spams about penis-enlargement pills.




What would be the intention, to be a stud, a playa...basically blow up your ego so that you are more prideful than God? Hmm...I can see why people are allowed to struggle. There are consequences for sin. If He removed all of them there would be no need for people to come to Him. Like the story in the Bible where the Pharisees were grilling the paraplegic that just got healed. They asked what sin he commited or his parents that he be born that way and the answer in this case was none. He was made that way so on that very day God would heal him and his healing would bring people to God. The meaning of life to a Christian is to follow God's will for them and to walk in obedience. Ultimately doing so will result in many people getting saved. That is the Christian meaning of life...no one else has an answer with any purpose. So there are many factors to think about as to why someone may not have been healed. If they are a believe I would argue the ultimate healing would be to got be with the Lord. If they weren't I would write it off to one of those things that happens for a reason that I don't understand. I have seen to much to believe otherwise. I choose to not struggle through life as I once had. I choose to not let the things that I don't understand tie me up as to rob me of blessings God has for me. I can tell you this, I used to terrorize Christians and I am only human and I do occaisionally act like a total asshole, but God Blesses me anyway and I am thouroughly convinced it is because I get back up and try again and the main reason is He is always on my mind...even when I try to make it stop.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 11 years, 27 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7269832 - 08/07/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

so that you are more prideful than God?




Hmmm...so god has some pride.

Quote:

They asked what sin he commited or his parents that he be born that way and the answer in this case was none. He was made that way so on that very day God would heal him and his healing would bring people to God.




Wasn't there a decent and sensible way for bringing people to god. Really weird are the ways of god.

Quote:

The meaning of life to a Christian is to follow God's will for them and to walk in obedience. Ultimately doing so will result in many people getting saved.




Walking in obedience..Dancing would be better and probably save more people (good exercise), and definitely bring more joy to people's lives.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7269924 - 08/07/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

till you judged that I'm judging...that's funny all by itself

I don't claim to be enlightened. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Icelander]
    #7269954 - 08/07/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Without an intelligent designer it couldn't have happend

INTELLIGENT designer? If life was designed, it was an incompetent drooling moron who did it.

Is it intelligent to design nature such that it guarantees some animals will viciously rip apart and eat still-living other animals in order to survive?

How about all the idiot designs in just the human body that it takes a 4 year university education and another 4 years of medical school just to learn them all? All those design flaws, intelligent?

Here's a small sampling:

-A useless and sepsis-prone appendix near the end of the gastrointestinal tract that can, and often does, become infected. In pre-surgery times, people routinely died in horrific pain from appendicitis. Today appendicitis can be fixed, if you happen to be near a hospital, but I have to wonder what incompetent member of the engineering team made this giant blunder?

-Wisdom teeth in the back of the jaw that cannot be used for chewing and that frequently grow in misaligned causing pain, inflammation, infection and in pre-surgery days, even death. Even with modern dentistry, having these useless things removed is painful. The engineer who put those there should be fired after being tortured with a dentist's drill.

-Tonsils (lymphatic nodes) in the throat of all places where they're likely to become clogged and infected. Lymph nodes have no place in a throat, especially when they could have just as easily been placed under the skin behind the neck. In that position, they'd be less likely to become infected and require removal. Another dumb-ass engineering decision that should never have been made.

-Error prone DNA transcription chemistry that causes random errors requiring even more complicated cancer-detecting chemistry to catch those errors and kill cancer cells before they become cancers. Naturally, sometimes this stoopid two-part system of transcription fucks up and voila, we have an innocent child dieing of leukemia.

-Poorly-designed skin that can't even protect well from the most prevalent type of radiation on the planet, sunlight. Why didn't they assign the alligator engineer to the human skin project? At least then the design specifications for human skin would have likely been correctly set to accommodate the sunny conditions humans are supposed to live in.

-As for lifespan, the human body ages very ungracefully. It develops all sorts of aches and pains, gets wrinkles, bad knees, arthritis and so on. A competent biochemist could have made humans last several hundred years at least, and without parts wearing out in such an undignified way.

Moron design, maybe. Definitely NOT intelligent.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: shakercee]
    #7270073 - 08/07/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shakercee said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

shakercee said:

I will ask you one thing.....why are there so many god-damn spams about penis-enlargement pills.




Obviously because god doesn't want us to have sex. :lecture:

:shrug:

:lol:




:yesnod:  :lol:

God created man in his own image...hmmmm.




:strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Icelander]
    #7270114 - 08/07/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'd say this post was the first I've read from you that was open and not angry.

Wow are you projecting or what?:rofl2: Veritas rarely if ever gets angry but is often accused of it by those who don't have an logical answer to the questions she poses.;)




Golly, why are you so angry? Is it some sort of small-town PNW phenomenon?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: shakercee]
    #7270151 - 08/07/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well I agree His ways are definitly interesting at times but the Bible says He created us to love Him but since you can't force love He had to orchestrate the ability for us to choose. Hence Free will. Sin etc. What He allows and what He caused are two very different things...


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7270172 - 08/07/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Diploid all those feature could be constued as de-evolution. They serve no point other than as an annoyance of a biological malfunction. Without medicine, natural selection would have killed most of us off to infection etc. Has nothing to do with evolving. Evolving is a positive enhancement. You yourself stated the negatives...all these things that don't work right....whos to say the chemicals we eat and the slow polution of our planet hasen't caused these mutations that clearly do not make us stronger as they should if evolution was correct. Thank you...that was a good point you just made for me!


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7270985 - 08/07/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The definition of a species is in part: a group of individuals who can reproduce with each other but not with any other group.

That's what a species IS.

I've already given you several examples of the direct observation of speciation, though you seem to be ignoring them. In particular, speciation was directly observed in Faeroe Island house mice over the span of 250 years.

These mice breed fast enough that selective pressures separated a group that could reproduce with each other into two genetically and morphologically distinct groups who could still reproduce within their own group but no longer with the other group that HAD BEEN their own species 250 years before.

After 250 years, what was one species became two distinct species, with different genetics, an inability to reproduce with each other, and even with two distinct sets of behaviors.

This was reported by biologists in 1979. If you went there now and studied the mitochondrial DNA of those mice, you would see for yourself that the two species of today both trace their maternal lineage to the same place.

If this direct observation of speciation is not enough to change your mind, then you're mired in dogma no different than when the Catholic church insisted that the sun and stars revolved around the Earth or modern day religious nut jobs who insist that the Earth is only 2,000 years old and that Noah had dinosaurs and every one of several million species of insects on his ark.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleApollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)
Female User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7270997 - 08/07/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If reality takes its own course than people praying is part of reality so its taking its own course. It's kinda like talking about off-off-off broadway theatres or neuro-neuro-neuro-biology as Robert Anton Wilson would put it.

Praying is both simulateously cool/un-cool.

I dunno, I got nothing.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7271026 - 08/07/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I'd say this post was the first I've read from you that was open and not angry.

Wow are you projecting or what?:rofl2: Veritas rarely if ever gets angry but is often accused of it by those who don't have an logical answer to the questions she poses.;)




Golly, why are you so angry? Is it some sort of small-town PNW phenomenon?




Do you feel the wrath of God here?:lol::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineungroov
meandering fool.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 73
Loc: ridin that southbound tra...
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7271031 - 08/07/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

understood on the frustration with the church. youre not the only one. this news was encouraging to me: dont let humans chase you from the almighty. we got brains, therefore why not use em to the full? continue to be honest and search and question, i think your maker would encourage you to do such... it makes for a fuller life and relationship. we aint robots here, we just tryin to make our way. keeping an open mind to all possibilities makes us question more, breeds education, and maintains a free spirit that can foster the notion that god actually might exist... and that he/she actually might be FOR us... in other words, its not that we believe in god, but that he/she believes in us. peace dudes.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: ungroov]
    #7271122 - 08/07/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Dip I didn't ignore your points but a mouse that turns into a mouse is still a mouse. Had the mouse turned into a dog, you would have my attention. That still doesn't prove evolution as a whole. Maybe they watched as the mouses DNA broke down and that was the change...I don't know and neither do you personally so again it takes faith to believe in what you read and what you are told.This all spanned from it being said that it takes more faith to believe in science's explaination as a whole than it does to believe in God.... Just that a mouse can turn into a different mouse. So that evolution must have kept going? And the babies are still mice?...yes that proves a lot...not really. That would say to cross psil azures and cubies via snake venom proves evolution


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7271127 - 08/07/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ungroov...nice post


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7271168 - 08/07/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Dip I didn't ignore your points but a mouse that turns into a mouse is still a mouse.

Then you're not discussing biology and species. You're discussing Sunday school science. I won't debate you on that.

But in real science, real biology, a species has a definition. The mice in question split into two species by the definition of the word species. If you're going to debate biology, you have to stick to the meanings of words used in biology, otherwise you're talking about an apple and I'm talking about a door knob.

Oh, and you conveniently ignored the picture I showed you of a snake with lizard leg bones inside its body. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7271198 - 08/07/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

And while I'm at it, here's a picture of an Archeopteryx. It is an animal with the bones and TEETH of a dinosaur, but the feathers that no dinosaur ever had.

No dinosaur ever found has feathers. No bird ever found has teeth. This is the quintessential example of one species turning into another. Feathers are modified dinosaur scales. Microscopic study of their structures show irrefutable similarities.



You can ignore the evidence. That won't change the truth of its existence.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7271231 - 08/07/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Oh, and you conveniently ignored the picture I showed you of a snake with lizard leg bones inside its body.





So a snake ate a lizard and it didn't fully digest. Big deal.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7271298 - 08/07/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
INTELLIGENT designer? If life was designed, it was an incompetent drooling moron who did it.




More than likely it was the management team that was hired with some Lean Management Six-Sigma TQM black-belt fad that caused the problems....  :thumbup:
Manufacturing always cuts corners from what the designer designs....  :shrug:



Quote:

Diploid said:






Cool dragon......!   
I freakin KNEW they existed....!
One of my many obsessions is validated....  :grin:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7271319 - 08/07/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Dip the archeopterix doesn't prove anything except that all those traits once existed and now don't. If evolution was true then the archepoterix should be along with many other species that share traits while one by one mutations move it towards evolution into something else...still proves nothing and is based purely on speculation. Since it looks like a reptile and has feathers and teeth, could it just be a creature with feathers and teeth. Natural selection is usually a forced event, in theory. There should be nothing left on the planet that came before us...since the evolution would have happened on a natural selection/survival of the fitest type platform there should be no monkeys in localized areas with humans since humans would have evolved to survive. Or Darwins missing link that was found alive...that long horshoe crab looking thing. Kinda broke the deal a lil cuz it wasn't 5 million years old...it was alive. Also funny how on one hand they will saty carbondating and other techniques are only accurate to about 5,000yrs...so that leaves all the rest of the age setting also to be speculation...looking at lines in sediment etc but that takes for granted the climate was the same...which cannot be certain...more speculation. 3/4 science is speculation with a 1/4 fact to reinforce people like you's belief in it as accurate when no self respecting scientist would ever say that it is a complete theory or absolute fact by any means!


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7271356 - 08/07/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I can count a dozen errors in what you just typed, but I'll pick on one:

so that leaves all the rest of the age setting also to be speculation

The depth in the ground where a fossil is found correlates to the age of the fossil. This happens because geologic strata settle as new layers appear over time. This can be verified by radiocarbon dating up to the maximum age where that method can be used. At that point, other methods such as the composition of trapped atmospheric gases are used.

Still other unrelated methods of determining age also all INDEPENDENTLY agree. How can these many disparate methods of independently determining age all be wrong, yet all agree??

It's funny how you can know so little about science, and particularly paleontology and geologic aging, yet you somehow summarily refuse to accept a giant mountain of evidence that makes sense only in light of evolutionary theory. Nothing in biology makes sense without the backdrop of that theory.

And again, your ideas remind me of how poor Galileo was imprisoned for life when he tried to show the dogmatists in charge in his day that, despite church dogma, the Earth revolves around the sun, and not the other way around. They refused to accept a giant mountain of evidence too.

Wow, I'm glad dogmatists like those are not in charge today.

no self respecting scientist would ever say that it is a complete theory

No theory is complete. A complete theory is what's called a religion. Science is better than that.

I would think someone who is qualified to render an opinion on the truth of the foundational theory of biology would know enough science to understand this. I guess not, and on the Internet, everyone with a keyboard is a science expert, even the ones who don't know the first, most basic premise of the Scientific Method. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Diploid]
    #7271368 - 08/07/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 11 years, 27 days
Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7293012 - 08/14/07 03:05 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

shakercee said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

shakercee said:

I will ask you one thing.....why are there so many god-damn spams about penis-enlargement pills.




Obviously because god doesn't want us to have sex. :lecture:

:shrug:

:lol:




:yesnod:  :lol:

God created man in his own image...hmmmm.




:strokebeard:




Quote:

Penis envy :lol:




Hahh, i need to clear this up.  I meant that God has penis envy and that's why he does wan't us to have sex.

Edited by shakercee (08/14/07 04:22 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Dinosaurs and the bible :P
( 1 2 3 all )
Gomp 2,594 42 01/11/05 01:37 AM
by Zekebomb
* Dinosaurs extinct? Gomp 5,359 16 11/30/05 09:10 PM
by VirgilKane
* God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds
( 1 2 3 all )
redtailedhawk 5,003 43 07/16/06 12:52 PM
by capliberty
* Prayer and living the Prayer Life
( 1 2 all )
Fucknuckle 3,205 21 12/05/04 10:37 AM
by FreakQlibrium
* If no dinosaur-killing asteroid...
( 1 2 all )
OrgoneConclusion 1,144 24 09/09/09 12:34 AM
by chieftoker
* Children and Dinosaurs
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 2,386 22 06/21/07 01:47 AM
by figgusfiddus
* Once again, I find myself in Lizard City... the_Landotter 600 6 04/12/05 06:47 AM
by Jellric
* Green prayer cloth will make you rich! OrgoneConclusion 1,912 13 10/05/09 10:16 PM
by learningtofly

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,760 topic views. 2 members, 11 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.073 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.