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TwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Registered: 06/28/07
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267180 - 08/06/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I didn't mean it like I watched cancer shrink, I meant it like they looked like they were almost dead and they showed up in church one day normal. That is a healing. There are many unexplained phenominon that take place in the medical community. The news rarely ever reports anything remotely true, at least not without a liberal twist...unless you watch fox which can be biased in the other direction. Happy people , healings and God don't sell news, only televangelism...which is manipulated and twisted buy many.... Anyone who works in an ER will tell you what it looks like when a person gives up their spirit and it is obvious
-------------------- I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me. ~Corinthians
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TwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267184 - 08/06/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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No I was claiming that all the surrounding buildings in it's area were severely damaged and it wasn't even completed and was still standing.
-------------------- I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me. ~Corinthians
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TwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267194 - 08/06/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heb 11:1 A.L.T " Now faith is [the] assurance [or, substance] of [things] being hoped for [or, being confidently expected], [the] confident assurance [or, proof] of things not seen."
-the greek is expounded in brackets.
-------------------- I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me. ~Corinthians
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267197 - 08/06/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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A coliseum built to hold 15,000 would be constructed with reinforced concrete & held to much higher engineering standards than the smaller structures in the surrounding area. Now if it was a grass hut on stilts, we might be talking exceptional, if not miraculous.
Quote:
Heb 11:1 A.L.T " Now faith is [the] assurance [or, substance] of [things] being hoped for [or, being confidently expected], [the] confident assurance [or, proof] of things not seen."
OK, so are you saying that this quote means that faith = proof?
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jonathanseagull
Cool!
Registered: 10/28/05
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
#7267245 - 08/06/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
You need more faith to believe in science then you do to believe in God.
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Faith (pertinent definition) 2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
Nope, sorry, but that simply does not make sense. Science does not function without proof, whereas belief in God has no basis in proof. Anyone who claims that science is about faith does not understand science.
At the same time, I could argue that science is a belief system, or religion, that definitely has it's doctrine. Theoretical Physics has as much dogma and ways to be blasphemous as any religion, as does other types of science. But I also understand the "proof" part. But again, I could argue that the person who does not think science includes faith in it's correctness doesn't understand science. In the end, science is a study of phenomenon within the universe. All phenomenon are relative in nature, only being compared to a differing phenomenon. Beyond relativity, is the Absolute, which some would dare to label as "God". This is why the argument of physics versus metaphysics doesn't make a lick of sense. "Meta" infers "beyond physics". Physics can't explain metaphysics. It's beyond it's own scope. It's a fruitless effort.
I think that physics can expose the silly 'metaphysics', but when you get down to the true metaphysics of the philosophers with mental capacity to explore the furthest reaches of human consciousness, we are ALL just scratching our heads.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
I could argue that science is a belief system...
And you would be wrong! This has been explained endlessly on these boards yet some still fail to grok this simplicity: science is a method, not a belief system.
*gets on knees*
"Dear FSM, please make the magic power run through my computer and sprinkle fairy dust on the internet servers so that if I believe hard enough, I may be able to log in to the Shroomery. Amen.*
--------------------
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TwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Registered: 06/28/07
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Orgone Different sciences differ from eachother. The chemists guidelines are defined by the complex parts where the biologist observes it in action. They each have a mindset to "the way things are" but all believe they are right. So to get past the holes in evolution one must have faith we just haven't figured it out yet but it is still true, or since it isn't completely proven it could be tossed as incomplete or untrue since there is no complete equation for Darwins theory...that is faith...I guess that makes you wrong about faith...even you need it cuz Darwin's theory is called a theory because to date it hasn't been proven a fact!
-------------------- I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me. ~Corinthians
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TwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267357 - 08/06/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Veritas, the structural integrity of a building with the front and top missing is very little. Telephone poles and hoeses are chucked like nothing in a hurricaine...you think a half built structure would take a direct hit?
-------------------- I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me. ~Corinthians
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jonathanseagull
Cool!
Registered: 10/28/05
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Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I could argue that science is a belief system...
And you would be wrong! This has been explained endlessly on these boards yet some still fail to grok this simplicity: science is a method, not a belief system.
It must not be too simple if so many fail to grok it. Please take the time to copy and paste, or reexplain it for me.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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MyInnerChild
EveryMum
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267609 - 08/06/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dip- Okay, I'll keep the perosnalisms in check but saying there is no God may not be a personalism...but it's a dietyism and hopefully we won't all get struck by lightening/have our non-evolving computers crash because of it lol.
Veri- When I said "that's not in my Bible" I wasn't referring to the (accusation that it is ridiculous that the) Bible extols one to pray, but rather the part of that accusation that referred to praying to Jesus specifically.
Human cells haven't evolved before or since they were used to hold the dinosaur bone and Mastodon tail hair brushes that wrote this on cave walls: "Insanity is Hereditary...You Get It From Your Kids". lol The complexity speaks of a single higher power imo.
Tra la.
-------------------- My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others! Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me, Other times I can barely see. Lately it occurs to me, What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in
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MyInnerChild
EveryMum
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
#7267659 - 08/06/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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It takes a lot more faith to "just believe" in the fact of evolution rather than accept that it has never been labeled anything but a theory by the scientists who theorized it.
Darwin believed in God.
Perhaps we should organize a trip for Science-head Shroomerites to some Eastern countries where we will delve into ideas that go beyond that which can only be accepted if proven. Ideas that other intelligent cultures have studied and theorized about from a time WAY before Darwin.
If you go on this trip...or a mushroom trip which enlightens you to a worlds beyond that which is proven by science, I wish you well... and my prayers will be with you.
Now THAT'S funny!
-------------------- My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others! Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me, Other times I can barely see. Lately it occurs to me, What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in
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ungroov
meandering fool.
Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 73
Loc: ridin that southbound tra...
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
#7267675 - 08/06/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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to the original poster: next time someone says this phrase to you simply ask what they mean. more often than not you might catch someone off guard and make them think about the cultural phrases we say, regardless of where we are from, there are many phrases out there that have ambiguous meanings (like the one you post) that kinda catch the rest of us unawares and feeling a lil left out. point is, there are many manners in which we as humans reach out to support other humans, and this can be one way to do that. whats interesting is that so often religions get so caught up in religion and trying to fit God into a man-made box of culture, that in trying to positively benefit others around us we neglect Gods very message of love and support and wisdom in doing so. example: in spreading knowledge about Jesus' teachings, a christian would hatefully argue a point, fail to empathize, make enemies, forget the golden rule, and fail to wash the feet of the ones whom he despises. other point: we have the opportunity to befriend and support EVERYONE we may come into contact with. just step inside someone elses shoes even before you meet them...
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TwiztidShroom
Supreme HighCommander of theFilter FreeAliance
Registered: 06/28/07
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: ungroov]
#7267718 - 08/06/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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ungroov, well said, yer right and i'm guilty of it too....
-------------------- I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me. ~Corinthians
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
#7267741 - 08/06/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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it has never been labeled anything but a theory by the scientists who theorized it
This statement tells me that you don't seem understand the principles of the Scientific Method.
EVERYTHING in science is theory. There are no facts in science. It was the Atomic Theory that incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nobody has ever seen an atom. They are theoretical constructs. Were those atomic bombs fake because the Atomic Theory is "just a throery"?
As far as evolution, what science has is a fossil record showing a gradual progression of species morphing one into the other. The depth from the surface at which each of these fossils is found correlates with how long ago the animal died. That age estimated from the depth where the fossil was found can be independently verified by radio-carbon dating. There are also several other obliquely-related methods of determining the age of a fossil, and they all independently agree.
Recently was discovered a fossil with feathers AND teeth. It was the missing transitional fossil linking the evolution of birds to dinosaurs. More evidence supporting evolution is being discovered all the time.
You can chose to ignore all this and an avalanche of additional evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution, but you'd only be fostering ignorance.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
#7267806 - 08/06/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Perhaps we should organize a trip for Science-head Shroomerites to some Eastern countries where we will delve into ideas that go beyond that which can only be accepted if proven. Ideas that other intelligent cultures have studied and theorized about from a time WAY before Darwin.
If you go on this trip...or a mushroom trip which enlightens you to a worlds beyond that which is proven by science, I wish you well...
This statement assumes that "science-heads" who don't believe in a supernatural Creator/Big Daddy have NOT experienced and thoroughly explored such subjective realms. The fact that we do not come to the same conclusions that you and a few others have does not mean that we are ignorant of said realms.
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, those "intelligent" cultures that theorized about the Universe "WAY before Darwin" could have been incorrect? That, maybe, just maybe, wild experiences on mushrooms are NOT the most accurate or credible means to deriving one's personal belief system?
Just a thought.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: TwiztidShroom]
#7267818 - 08/06/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TwiztidShroom said: Veritas, the structural integrity of a building with the front and top missing is very little. Telephone poles and hoeses are chucked like nothing in a hurricaine...you think a half built structure would take a direct hit?
Yes, obviously it could and DID. So did many, many other structures that were NOT dedicated to the worship of the Christian God. Is it a miracle if a luxury hotel made it through the tsunami? What about a hospital? A library? A mansion?
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MyInnerChild
EveryMum
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
#7267820 - 08/06/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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It may not be the answer to everything but those 2 types of trips could really open some inner/third eyes or call it what you will. lol Just a suggestion.
None of us has been through it all and been able to come to unequivocal conclusions about the universe have we? It seems to me that each of us, from his or her own perspective/school of thought are taking the theories and thoughts our professors professed about....and sharing them as fact. I feel that part of the problem begins not b/c we are/were too literal and too young and open to suggestion but b/c the lessons were presented as fact in the first place and in too many cases.
The universe is open to yet be explored but this time by US...and to come to OUR conclusions even if the professors professed convincingly and some of what they said is based on fact.
We all could stand to wake up in the morning and, hopefully after feeling gratitude for being alive, to look in the mirror and say: "Question yourself...."
P.S. You didn't address how it could be that Darwin believed in a singular creator. Was he a simpleton in that way or brainwashed? Perhaps a creator could cause the world to develop over time...if you can make a world...you can make it as fast or slow as you like...hey...it's your world.
Edited by MyInnerChild (08/06/07 08:35 PM)
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
#7267828 - 08/06/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not opposed to spiritual reasons for inner/outer travel, but I think that it is a HUGE assumption to say that those who state that evolutionary theory is correct & the existence of God is not evidenced would be "enlightened" by Eastern religions and mushrooms.
What if the so-called "science-heads" are already enlightened?
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MyInnerChild
EveryMum
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: Veritas]
#7267949 - 08/06/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: I'm not opposed to spiritual reasons for inner/outer travel, but I think that it is a HUGE assumption to say that those who state that evolutionary theory is correct & the existence of God is not evidenced would be "enlightened" by Eastern religions and mushrooms.
What if the so-called "science-heads" are already enlightened?
I'd say this post was the first I've read from you that was open and not angry. I "hear" enlightenment in this one lol huggles.
If one could prove the existence of a singular creator there would be no free choice...another good subject to explore.
Free choice or predestination...? I believe we are pre-destined to have free choice...whatta ya think o'that?
Lve ya! MIC
-------------------- My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others! Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me, Other times I can barely see. Lately it occurs to me, What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Our prayers are with you... [Re: MyInnerChild]
#7267974 - 08/06/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Angry? Do I need to be angry to participate in a debate? You're way off.
As to the "free will" debate, I find it about as interesting as watching Golf. Each to his/her own, I suppose.
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