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OfflineJT
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Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.'
    #7255400 - 08/03/07 03:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo’s campaign stood by his assertion that bombing holy Muslim sites would serve as a good “deterrent” to prevent Islamic fundamentalists from attacking the United States, his spokeswoman said Friday.

“This shows that we mean business,” said Bay Buchanan, a senior Tancredo adviser. “There’s no more effective deterrent than that. But he is open-minded and willing to embrace other options. This is just a means to deter them from attacking us.”

On Tuesday, Tancredo warned a group of Iowans that another terrorist attack would “cause a worldwide economic collapse.” IowaPolitics.com recorded his comments.

“If it is up to me, we are going to explain that an attack on this homeland of that nature would be followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina,” Tancredo said. “That is the only thing I can think of that might deter somebody from doing what they would otherwise do. If I am wrong, fine, tell me, and I would be happy to do something else. But you had better find a deterrent, or you will find an attack.”

Tom Casey, a deputy spokesman for the State Department, told CNN’s Elise Labott that the congressman’s comments were “reprehensible” and “absolutely crazy.” Tancredo was widely criticized in 2005 for making a similar suggestion.

–CNN Associate Producer Lauren Kornreich




While shocking at first, I think this guy really has a point. It's obvious by the number of suicide bombings that these radical muslims care for little other than their religion. Why, then, are we not attacking them where it hurts?

The "impending terrorist attack," if any, is predicted to be worse than 9/11. If this is true, I don't believe we would be in the wrong to retaliate.

It's definately an extreme plan, and it should only be used in the most dire circumstances, but that threat might be the only one that hits home for jihadists.


Edited by justin_thyme (08/03/07 03:04 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: JT]
    #7255470 - 08/03/07 03:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I certainly dont think we should target churches/mosques. But if they happen to be using a church to fight the Jihad I definitely say attack the church.


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: DieCommie]
    #7255483 - 08/03/07 03:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I still say EVERY American bullet should contain a drop of pigs blood... Their dead bodies would be "unclean" and they wouldn't make it to "heaven".

I don't believe in that bullshit, but THEY DO... so we should use it.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7255510 - 08/03/07 03:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck them. They want ALL of us to be converted to Islam or ALL or us dead. Then ALL of us will fight them. It's truly want they want. No fucking rules. Just dead extremists. Show them they have something to lose and nothing to die for.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



Edited by robbyberto (08/03/07 03:39 PM)


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OfflineMarginOfError
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7255629 - 08/03/07 03:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
Fuck them. They want ALL of us to be converted to Islam or ALL or us dead. Then ALL of us will fight them. It's truly want they want. No fucking rules. Just dead extremists. Show them they have something to lose and nothing to die for.





Really are you so stupid you can't tell the difference between terrorists and innocent people who believe in Islam?

What you're saying is akin to claiming that some KKK members are christians so we might as well wipe all christians off the face of the earth.


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7255631 - 08/03/07 03:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

how about we just leave them alone...and they leave us alone?

I think if we got all our "peace keeping troops" (the ones with huge machine guns) out of other countries and stopped trying to tell the rest of the world what to, they might leave us alone...


Do you really think, if we said- "we will remove all our troops from every country but our own, they would still want to fight us?"

I really don't think they are that crazy and unreasonalbe...

We should say- "we will remove all our troops after a month of ZERO voilence" "Once we withdraw, if attacks on america or europe continue, we nuke mecca"

I believe they would be cool with that deal...

The jihad is supposed to be a huge online thing, I'd like to talk to some of these guys...

"Terrorist"...I know your people just like me, I don't want U.S. troops in your country ethier, Let's talk... I'm a God-fearing man, just as you are, Do you really want endless war? Or could we both just live in peace? And practice what we choose to believe?


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7255686 - 08/03/07 04:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Holy wars have certainly had wonderful results in the past, why not engage in one now?


--------------------
Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


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Offlineledfut
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7255736 - 08/03/07 04:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

look what happened in this country when our religion (corpratism and big business) got attacked on 9/11.

i think bombing churches would a fucking retarded.


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7255850 - 08/03/07 04:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It is impossible to bomb churches. Church is a spiritual place, temples however exist on Earth! But they were built by hands of man.


--------------------
Asshole


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: JT]
    #7255897 - 08/03/07 04:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Muslims don't have churches, they use mosques for their psycho-criminal activities.


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Invisibledespisedicon
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: JT]
    #7255898 - 08/03/07 04:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

He wants to attack Mecca of all places? Only around 15 percent of Muslims live in Arabic countries. All able bodied Muslims are required to make a hajji to the holiest city of Islam once in their life. Hypothetically speaking if we did bomb Mecca, you;d have a lot of Moderate Muslims (yes even American) joining the Jihad to fight back. To them it's Islam first, country second.

This is doing nothing but helping the radical imams recruit more soldiers for their cause of Jihad. Is this Tom Tancredo a Christian? Doesn't he know that Christians and Muslims worship the same god?

This isn't the first time Mr. Tancredo has put his foot in his mouth. He's a fucking idiot in the truest sense of the word.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: MarginOfError]
    #7255911 - 08/03/07 05:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarginOfError said:
Quote:

robbyberto said:
Fuck them. They want ALL of us to be converted to Islam or ALL or us dead. Then ALL of us will fight them. It's truly want they want. No fucking rules. Just dead extremists. Show them they have something to lose and nothing to die for.





Really are you so stupid you can't tell the difference between terrorists and innocent people who believe in Islam?

What you're saying is akin to claiming that some KKK members are christians so we might as well wipe all christians off the face of the earth.



I'm saying that it may be necessary to bomb Mosques and other holy Islamic sites in the event of a string of terrorist attacks. Minimizing noncombatant fatalities of course. The majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but the majority of Muslims would also like to see America fall. My post was mostly said in jest to stir up some emotions.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



Edited by robbyberto (08/03/07 05:03 PM)


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Invisibledespisedicon
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7256053 - 08/03/07 05:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It's not necessary, and it will never happen. It's true what you said, a large majority of Muslims sympathize with the mouthpiece of Al-Qaeda Osama bin Laden because he stands up to the west. Those same Muslims would never want to live under his rule.

>Minimizing noncombatant fatalities of course

in Mecca? baaahahah


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: despisedicon]
    #7256335 - 08/03/07 06:49 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well we just don't know what may become necessary do we? When this country is in a state of panic many things are going to happen that we didn't think were necessary. It's going to be scary.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7257786 - 08/04/07 01:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

We need to listen to Lao Tzu, Jesus Christ and Buddha and do nothing!

But yea, those guys didn't know what they were talking about...

Why listen to them?


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7257800 - 08/04/07 01:52 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

We need some more of this-

:bowdown::levitate::bigblunt::hippie::punker::muslimprayer::stoned::shroomer: 





And alot less of this -:president: :machinegun::tokeeporder::dumbhunter:


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7258175 - 08/04/07 05:19 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
I still say EVERY American bullet should contain a drop of pigs blood... Their dead bodies would be "unclean" and they wouldn't make it to "heaven".

I don't believe in that bullshit, but THEY DO... so we should use it.



In Islam like other religions, the body obviously doesn't go to heaven, the soul does.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #7258362 - 08/04/07 08:43 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The guy is obviously a dumbass... There's no other way around it. I would love to find a way to get in contact with him and tell him how much of a dumbass he really is.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Maverick]
    #7258502 - 08/04/07 10:48 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DRTMaverick said:
The guy is obviously a dumbass... There's no other way around it. I would love to find a way to get in contact with him and tell him how much of a dumbass he really is.




Why don't you go here and leave a message.
http://teamtancredo.typepad.com/

I could see destroying some mosques and madrasas being controlled by the lunatic (not so) fringe groups. The way to defeat an enemy is to DEFEAT an enemy.


--------------------


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: despisedicon]
    #7258543 - 08/04/07 11:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
He wants to attack Mecca of all places? Only around 15 percent of Muslims live in Arabic countries. All able bodied Muslims are required to make a hajji to the holiest city of Islam once in their life. Hypothetically speaking if we did bomb Mecca, you;d have a lot of Moderate Muslims (yes even American) joining the Jihad to fight back. To them it's Islam first, country second.

This is doing nothing but helping the radical imams recruit more soldiers for their cause of Jihad. Is this Tom Tancredo a Christian? Doesn't he know that Christians and Muslims worship the same god?

This isn't the first time Mr. Tancredo has put his foot in his mouth. He's a fucking idiot in the truest sense of the word.




Bombing Mecca would be a great criminal act - but utterly unrealistic. It is mostly a pipe dream of some militarist fringes.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Basilides]
    #7258683 - 08/04/07 12:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If they were to bomb Mecca during the Hajj, that's around 1million people dead.  Plus the destruction of Mecca.  Then WW3 would definitely be upon us.  Which is fine, because let's stop fucking around and just get it over with.  :smirk:


--------------------
Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #7259011 - 08/04/07 02:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Although the first four posts in this thread show a complete lack of respect for culture and life similar to the extremists they rail against. It is good to see the preponderence of posters realize that an eye for an eye makes us all blind. We at present are dealing exactly with what Russian generals foretold after their debacle in Afghanistan. That what we created among the fundamentalist extremists to combat the Russians would soon come back to haunt us.
It will hurt many peoples worldview to come to terms with the FACT that we created our own enemy on purpose to perpetuate war.
Why is it the loudest hawks have the shortest memories? We have trained and funded nearly every present combatant we face at some time or another. But not one of you seem to grok why. Maybe give some thought to who we are fighting and our history together instead of blustering like the microcephalic Tancredo.
Can we get some fuckng perspective? Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11 and all other american "terrorist" deaths amount to 5000 souls does that excuse the hundreds of thousands we have destroyed or killed in revenge already?
We have been at war for some time now to stem "terror"( notice the switch in wording next chance you get. It was once terrorism) yet they are predicting a greater attack than 9/11? Excellent progress!
Perhaps a more realistic approach would be to extracate and isolate but our purile addiction to petroleum wealth (notice wealth not petrol as after all it is about wealth and power not commodities,just their value)will not have that happen so we shall continue to mire in the filth we created and it will drag us down to the level that has been planned for for a century. It WILL happen as it has to every superpower the world has seen since recorded history began.
WR


--------------------
To old for this place


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7259037 - 08/04/07 02:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11...




False accusation? So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is lying when he says he was the guy who organized the 9/11 attacks under Osama bin Laden's orders? What makes you think he is lying about that?

If it wasn't Al Qaeda who did it, who was it?




Phred


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7259069 - 08/04/07 02:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
Although the first four posts in this thread show a complete lack of respect for culture and life similar to the extremists they rail against. It is good to see the preponderence of posters realize that an eye for an eye makes us all blind. We at present are dealing exactly with what Russian generals foretold after their debacle in Afghanistan. That what we created among the fundamentalist extremists to combat the Russians would soon come back to haunt us.
It will hurt many peoples worldview to come to terms with the FACT that we created our own enemy on purpose to perpetuate war.
Why is it the loudest hawks have the shortest memories? We have trained and funded nearly every present combatant we face at some time or another. But not one of you seem to grok why. Maybe give some thought to who we are fighting and our history together instead of blustering like the microcephalic Tancredo.
Can we get some fuckng perspective? Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11 and all other american "terrorist" deaths amount to 5000 souls does that excuse the hundreds of thousands we have destroyed or killed in revenge already?
We have been at war for some time now to stem "terror"( notice the switch in wording next chance you get. It was once terrorism) yet they are predicting a greater attack than 9/11? Excellent progress!
Perhaps a more realistic approach would be to extracate and isolate but our purile addiction to petroleum wealth (notice wealth not petrol as after all it is about wealth and power not commodities,just their value)will not have that happen so we shall continue to mire in the filth we created and it will drag us down to the level that has been planned for for a century. It WILL happen as it has to every superpower the world has seen since recorded history began.
WR




More fantasist nonsense from the "America controls everything bad" crowd. We did not create radical fundamentalist Muslim assholes. They have been around for longer than America has. Ask Spain and India. Unbelievable.

Russian generals whining about what we created, how very....well, whiny. The odd thing is is that they weren't defeated by the Afghans so much as they were defeated by soldier's mothers wondering what the fuck they were doing there in the first place. Like us in Vietnam. Don't bother with the parallels to Iraq, I see hardly any of that this time.


--------------------


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Offlineledfut
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7259123 - 08/04/07 02:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

whiterasta said:
Although the first four posts in this thread show a complete lack of respect for culture and life similar to the extremists they rail against. It is good to see the preponderence of posters realize that an eye for an eye makes us all blind. We at present are dealing exactly with what Russian generals foretold after their debacle in Afghanistan. That what we created among the fundamentalist extremists to combat the Russians would soon come back to haunt us.
It will hurt many peoples worldview to come to terms with the FACT that we created our own enemy on purpose to perpetuate war.
Why is it the loudest hawks have the shortest memories? We have trained and funded nearly every present combatant we face at some time or another. But not one of you seem to grok why. Maybe give some thought to who we are fighting and our history together instead of blustering like the microcephalic Tancredo.
Can we get some fuckng perspective? Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11 and all other american "terrorist" deaths amount to 5000 souls does that excuse the hundreds of thousands we have destroyed or killed in revenge already?
We have been at war for some time now to stem "terror"( notice the switch in wording next chance you get. It was once terrorism) yet they are predicting a greater attack than 9/11? Excellent progress!
Perhaps a more realistic approach would be to extracate and isolate but our purile addiction to petroleum wealth (notice wealth not petrol as after all it is about wealth and power not commodities,just their value)will not have that happen so we shall continue to mire in the filth we created and it will drag us down to the level that has been planned for for a century. It WILL happen as it has to every superpower the world has seen since recorded history began.
WR




More fantasist nonsense from the "America controls everything bad" crowd. We did not create radical fundamentalist Muslim assholes. They have been around for longer than America has. Ask Spain and India. Unbelievable.

Russian generals whining about what we created, how very....well, whiny. The odd thing is is that they weren't defeated by the Afghans so much as they were defeated by soldier's mothers wondering what the fuck they were doing there in the first place. Like us in Vietnam. Don't bother with the parallels to Iraq, I see hardly any of that this time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
i suggest you turn off the tv and start reading more.

also i suggest you pick up a copy of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3968544393356669182&q=john+perkins&total=321&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
that's the first part of a lecture he did where he goes into a few of the details that are in his book. you can just do a google video search and get the other 2 parts.


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


Edited by ledfut (08/04/07 02:54 PM)


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OfflineJT
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7259241 - 08/04/07 03:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
Although the first four posts in this thread show a complete lack of respect for culture and life similar to the extremists they rail against. It is good to see the preponderence of posters realize that an eye for an eye makes us all blind. We at present are dealing exactly with what Russian generals foretold after their debacle in Afghanistan. That what we created among the fundamentalist extremists to combat the Russians would soon come back to haunt us.
It will hurt many peoples worldview to come to terms with the FACT that we created our own enemy on purpose to perpetuate war.
Why is it the loudest hawks have the shortest memories? We have trained and funded nearly every present combatant we face at some time or another. But not one of you seem to grok why. Maybe give some thought to who we are fighting and our history together instead of blustering like the microcephalic Tancredo.
Can we get some fuckng perspective? Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11 and all other american "terrorist" deaths amount to 5000 souls does that excuse the hundreds of thousands we have destroyed or killed in revenge already?
We have been at war for some time now to stem "terror"( notice the switch in wording next chance you get. It was once terrorism) yet they are predicting a greater attack than 9/11? Excellent progress!
Perhaps a more realistic approach would be to extracate and isolate but our purile addiction to petroleum wealth (notice wealth not petrol as after all it is about wealth and power not commodities,just their value)will not have that happen so we shall continue to mire in the filth we created and it will drag us down to the level that has been planned for for a century. It WILL happen as it has to every superpower the world has seen since recorded history began.
WR




I think it's more about the threat of attacking Mecca as a prevension mechanism than actually bombing it. Like it's been pointed out in this thread, it would cause immeasurable civilian casualties and most likely bring about world war 3.

I just don't see many options at this time. The most promising thing at the moment (in my opinion) is the education of ex-jihadists, or terrorists who have realized the political agenda behind their "jihad," who will testify against al Qaeda. But even so, only a handful of of these people exist.


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OfflineTwiztidShroom
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: JT]
    #7259247 - 08/04/07 03:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It is the only way. That and spraying cities with cropdusters filled with pigs blood. Since acts of jihad is to gain heaven they wont blow themselves up if you spray em with cuz they will think they are going to hell.


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I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7259275 - 08/04/07 03:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

what's really ironic is i am sure there are fundamentalist christians in our armed forces over there right now believing they are doing god's work. yet they come back home and are labeled heroes.

i don't know who originated the phrase, but i first read it in a james bovard book

"one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."


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May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7259338 - 08/04/07 03:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

More fantasist nonsense from the "America controls everything bad" crowd. We did not create radical fundamentalist Muslim assholes. They have been around for longer than America has. Ask Spain and India. Unbelievable.

Russian generals whining about what we created, how very....well, whiny. The odd thing is is that they weren't defeated by the Afghans so much as they were defeated by soldier's mothers wondering what the fuck they were doing there in the first place. Like us in Vietnam. Don't bother with the parallels to Iraq, I see hardly any of that this time




Son your ignorance, and this is no flame but fact, is astounding. Here is a short list of historical subjects you should Wiki before you post again.
Manuel Noriega
The Shah of Iran
Sadaam Hussein
The Sandanistas
The Kmehr Rouge(sp?)
Osama Bin Laden
Stalin
School of the Americas
Russian /Afghan war
Then perhaps you will actually be informed before you spout such inane responses to what is easily verified.
This such activity recently closed a thread I would just as soon it did not end this discussion,, so please become more informed before you attempt an offensive stance in any arguement please.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7259353 - 08/04/07 04:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think it's more about the threat of attacking Mecca as a prevension mechanism than actually bombing it. Like it's been pointed out in this thread, it would cause immeasurable civilian casualties and most likely bring about world war 3.

I just don't see many options at this time. The most promising thing at the moment (in my opinion) is the education of ex-jihadists, or terrorists who have realized the political agenda behind their "jihad," who will testify against al Qaeda. But even so, only a handful of of these people exist.




Unless you actually intend to fullfill the threat it is empty and we are playing the same game of terror for terror they are, minus the virgins of course :wink:
Perhaps when you've lived fifty yrs of perpetual war you will realize that peace is neither profitable or desired save by those who actually fight the wars.
WR


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7259600 - 08/04/07 05:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
It is the only way. That and spraying cities with cropdusters filled with pigs blood. Since acts of jihad is to gain heaven they wont blow themselves up if you spray em with cuz they will think they are going to hell.




That's a highly stupid thing to believe.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Basilides]
    #7259652 - 08/04/07 06:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

From the Qur'an:
"He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

I don't think the pig blood idea will keep them from heaven :P


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Basilides]
    #7259747 - 08/04/07 06:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
It is the only way. That and spraying cities with cropdusters filled with pigs blood. Since acts of jihad is to gain heaven they wont blow themselves up if you spray em with cuz they will think they are going to hell.




That's a highly stupid thing to believe.




And those couple thousand angry islamist terrorists crippling the wests modern armies will turn into millions, and their will a true clash of nations.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7259871 - 08/04/07 07:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11...




False accusation? So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is lying when he says he was the guy who organized the 9/11 attacks under Osama bin Laden's orders? What makes you think he is lying about that?

If it wasn't Al Qaeda who did it, who was it?




Phred


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7259872 - 08/04/07 07:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ledfut said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
i suggest you turn off the tv and start reading more.




I suggest you spare me the pompous twaddle and read your own links. From the above:

Quote:

The mujahideen were significantly financed, armed, and trained by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the Carter and Reagan administrations, Saudi Arabia, the People's Republic of China, several European countries, Iran, and Pakistan (during the Zia-ul-Haq military regime). The Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was the interagent used in the majority of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance.




The idea that the US created Muslim extremism is so laughable it barely merits refutation. I watch about a hundred times more Oxygen network than Fox News and I hardly ever watch that.
Quote:



also i suggest you pick up a copy of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3968544393356669182&q=john+perkins&total=321&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
that's the first part of a lecture he did where he goes into a few of the details that are in his book. you can just do a google video search and get the other 2 parts.




I don't do videos, you can't fisk them properly. I've heard of this and am greatly impressed with his ability to sell books.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7259910 - 08/04/07 08:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:


Son your ignorance, and this is no flame but fact, is astounding. Here is a short list of historical subjects you should Wiki before you post again.
Manuel Noriega
The Shah of Iran
Sadaam Hussein
The Sandanistas
The Kmehr Rouge(sp?)
Osama Bin Laden
Stalin
School of the Americas
Russian /Afghan war
Then perhaps you will actually be informed before you spout such inane responses to what is easily verified.
This such activity recently closed a thread I would just as soon it did not end this discussion,, so please become more informed before you attempt an offensive stance in any arguement please.




You really are a complete comedy act if you don't think that is a flame. What the fuck are you talking about? Are you saying we trained and funded the Sandinistas? The Khmer Rouge? Stalin? Yeah we helped the mujaheedin expel the Soviets. No shit. That doesn't quite equate there, SON, with creating Islamic extremism. If all of this is so easily verified, why don't you put your balls on the table and verify it?

What closed the other thread was you with your increasingly bombastic nonsense regarding the 9/11 attack which I found, frankly, stupid. Like almost everybody else on the planet did. Other planets may have different demographics. Which are you from?


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7259927 - 08/04/07 08:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"also i suggest you pick up a copy of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins."

Why bother? Here are a few reviews from readers at Amazon --

Quote:

"Confessions" is at once too good to be true and too vague to be believed. The author apparently had a successful career supporting requests for development loans for major electric utilities projects to the various less developed countries by grossly inflating their projected economic growth. His motivation for doing so was admittedly to keep his job (his boss was fired when he provided more realistic projections) and flourish in a consulting company whose financial success was clearly dependent upon the loans being approved so that their clients could get the lucrative contracts to do the construction work. Nevertheless, Perkins attempts to make what would just be another sordid tale of Enron-style numbers spoofing into a nearly epic story of official U.S. chicanery by alleging that fraud was perpetuated at the request of the American government in order to trap the borrower nations, apparently too ignorant or corrupt to watch out for themselves, into an eternity of economic and political servitude by intentionally burdening them with debts they could not pay.

Unfortunately, despite Perkins career as a self-proclaimed "economist", his book is devoid of even a single statistic backing up this claim. Instead, it rests almost solely upon the words of a mysterious "Claudia" - a woman who present herself not as a U.S. government agent, but as a consultant to Perkins's employer - who in a series of secret meetings imbued this revelation to Perkins from on high as it were, much as Gabriel dictated the Qu'ran to Mohammed. To say that this story is hard to believe is to treat it with a respect it is manifestly undeserving.

Perkins's main pitch seems to be that his own apparently solid status as an establishment insider is sufficient proof of his own credibility, despite his enthusiastic admissions that he made a substantial fortune exaggerating and lieing for a living. Yet Perkins is no McNamara, but a best a midlevel manager in the "corporatocracy" he exposes, and his story lacks the abundant details which made true insider accounts, like Phillip Agee's "Inside the Company" so unmistakably authentic and powerful. In fact, it is precisely its quasi-fictional nature, rather like Carlos Castaneda's dubious account of his dealings with Native American shamans, which makes "Confessions" such a good read. It reads like fiction because it basically is fiction, albeit interlaced with enough true events from the author's life and recent history to give it the veneer of plausibility.

In the end it is useful mostly for the (few) books it cites in its (sparse) footnotes, which offer some useful insights into some of the lesser known incidents in the history of the American Empire, such as the abortive careers of Omar Torrijos and Jaime Roldos. But it cannot be treated as a serious contribution to the debate on globalization.




Quote:

I really wanted to enjoy this book. I was looking forward to a description of how the World Bank, IMF and the 'aid industry' was collaborating to keep LDCs from actually realizing improvements in their systems.

Instead, John Perkins gives us wild speculation and claims with absolutly no facts to back them up. He describes his first assignment in Indonesia, tells how he 'cooked the books' and then completly ignores any further discussion of the matter. As a reader I have no idea if his economic estimates:
1) actually resulted in any loans, economic programs, etc.
2) if his inflated projections ended up being right or wrong
3) if (or how) internation institutions then used this situation to bend Indonesia to their will

Instead, Perkins just tells us (over and over again) about his guilt.

I do have to admit, I didn't finish reading this rubbish. I did skim the rest of the book hoping to actually find something of substance to substantiate his claims but couldn't find anything.

The most frustrating thing about this book is that I believe the author's claims might be right. It's just very unfortunate that he didn't do anything to prove them.

If you must, pick this up when it's in the dollar bin.




Quote:

This author simply doesn't understand major league international finance. I won't argue that the World Bank and the IMF need overhauls, however, Perkins says "our underlying objective is to burden the (foreign) country with debts it couldn't repay". and the intent of electrical projects all over the world is to benefit a few of the wealthy and "widen the gap between the rich and the poor". HUH? This guy is nuts. I suppose he also thinks the objective of the TVA was to widen the gap between the rich and the poor. I can assure Perkins that the intent of private sector lenders is to get their money back with interest and the intent of the rating agencies is to analyse and critic objectively the work of feasibility studies. Maybe he just worked for a bad apple. He admitted that he was a bad apple. Now he is trying to capitalize on it. A shame. Don't bother reading the book.




Quote:

Probably the biggest revelation in this book is unintentional (and this is NOT a spoiler). And that is that Perkins is a wholly unsympathetic character, both before and after his purported wising up to the Global Capitalist Conspiracy. From one sentence to the next, he manages to go from Corporate-Climbing Ugly American to Simpering One-World Do-Gooder and back again.

In both guises, again and again, Perkins professes complete certainty of things he has no knowledge of, and total ambivalence and confusion about things that are in his face every day. In the end, the book provides interesting critiques of both the pro- and anti-globalization postures (though the latter is, again, unintentional), and evidence that they may not be as different as we think!

He does a poor job of backing up his central thesis, which is that disastrous economic policies and corrupt dictatorships are almost entirely foisted upon the peoples of the world by a string-pulling US oligarchy, backed up by the threat of total annihilation against anyone who opposes them. While there is no doubt some truth to this, even in the narrative "exposé" it never really rises above the level of a gut feeling.

And once again, the weakness of both sides of the debate is exposed: the notion that the people of other nations have no free will, no control or even influence over their own destinies, and sidestepping the fact that local actors play a key - and often decisive - role in adopting and implementing bad (or good) policies. In the end, what we see are just two sides of the white-man's-burden coin, both of which are almost equally ugly.




Quote:

Although the premise of the book - a rebel insider with dangerous knowledge willing to reveal it all for the common good - is appealing, the end result of Perkins' work is less so. It is written in a gripping, fluid style, but ultimately falls flat as a work of non-fiction.

There simply isn't enough hard data in the work to substantiate the author's cloak-and-dagger claims. In addition to the general lack of substance, there were certain elements of the narrative that sound very off, especially with some knowledge of economics and finance. For example, the author claims that he had to convince the members of certain international lending organizations that the lending would be a good deal for them, presumably convincing them that they would be repaid, which the author claims was a lie. Somehow, despite his relative lack of experience, the author was able to pull the wool over the eyes of the experienced analysts and economists at these institutions. How, precisely, he achieved such a feat is left to the reader's imagination. This is only one small example, but there are many other cases where the lack of supporting facts makes the book read like some kind of mediocre spy novel.

Ultimately, it is difficult to look to "Confessions" as a reliable source. It is long on conspiratorial accusations and political and economic intrigue, but painfully short on hard evidence.




Quote:

It simply scares me to think that some who read this book will believe that what it says is true. While this theory of economic imperialism isn't technically impossible, it's the kind of idea better left to an ideological blog somewhere instead of a book purporting to be a true account. Books like this make the left look as naive and stupid as Ann Coulter books make the right look bigoted and, well, stupid. This is an incredibly implausible account, and books like this, claiming to be nonfiction, undermine good writing and reporting everywhere. Shame on the author and the publisher. The only redeeming quality of this book was that it contained a list of other books published by Berrett-Koehler, the contents of which make it obvious that BK is simly a peddler of 4th rate crackpot theories, all of which appear to be of the nonfiction variety.




Quote:

HIS STORY

John Perkins' tale is the basic conspiracy story, writ large. In it the villains are the U.S. government, shadowy intelligence organizations, greedy American corporations, and as a hook to make the story more plausible than the usual pretense of investigative journalism, John Perkins himself. His claim is that the U.S. National Security Agency recruited and encouraged him to work for a consulting firm in which he falsified data to support large loans for projects which were planned to fail. According to his conspiracy theory, the inevitable bankruptcy of these projects then led to American access to natural resources, military cooperation, and political support.

And who is this John Perkins, who claims he could confound the best economists of the World Bank and other aid institutions? According to biographical material scattered at random in the book, he majored in American Literature at Middlebury college, transferred, without a degree, to Boston University where he received a BA in Business Administration with emphasis in marketing. While the study of literature and marketing are quite apparent in his book, a basic economics course, which was surely required, was not. Oh yes, he "had taken a couple of intensive courses aimed at teaching executives the finer points of econometrics". It's nice to know that econometric modeling of developing countries is so easy!

The author presents no evidence that he was recruited to be an "Economic Hit Man" by the NSA. He admits that as a consultant he had no communication with anyone who ever even claimed to be NSA, nor did he ever receive any money from the NSA. Instead of evidence we are referred to shadowy figures which, because no details are given, can not be refuted. One is the "Uncle Frank", who is the friend of his stepfather (who is also unidentified). The other is the mysterious Claudine Martin who mentors him and steals his heart in what can only be referred to as dream sequences. He admits that no records of her exist. She warns him that true hit men, which he colorfully describes in his book as Jackals (too many spy novels, John?), will kill them if they ever tell the true story of what they are doing. Later when she has disappeared, and no one seems to know that she even existed he writes, "An image flashed before me of Claudine flailing, falling in a rain of bullets, assassinated." So now the tale has its heroine, albeit short lived. Assassinations play a walk-on role in two chapters near the end when two Latin American leaders are killed in plane crashes. These become assassinations in the author's view.

The author's musings and speculations of what happened on the world scene in the 60's and 70's are liberally mixed in with quite accurate reporting with footnotes supplied from popular sources. John Perkins shows us that he understands this technique when he writes, "Outright lies can be refuted. Documents like those few were impossible to refute because they were based on glimmers of truth, not open deceptions..." Perhaps John Perkins meant this statement to be the review of his book.

THE PROBABLE STORY

Most books tell us if the author has written other books and lists them both as evidence of credibility and to sell those books. This book merely states that Perkins is "The author of five previous books." A search shows that they are in the mystical, shamanistic genre. One, Shapeshifting: Techniques for Global and Personal Transformation, Sept. 1, 1997, was favorably reviewed this way. "He [John Perkins] tells fascinating stories of how he overcame his initial skepticism and doubt to become one with a chair, transform herbs into a newspaper, and travel through time and space as a blue ball of light."

If the author wrote "Hit Man" as a believer in not just the spiritual transformation of the mind, perhaps with some physiological effects, but in true super paranormal powers, then his motivation is easy to fathom. With a rich fantasy life, he could almost unconciously transform (I almost wrote shapeshift) his life experiences into a fantasy book. The Peace Corps exposed him to the poverty and injustice of the undeveloped world early, and the assumption must be that this would concern him even if he did join to avoid the draft. Consulting is a difficult profession ethically. You are often hired to tell the client what he wants to hear. The fact that you live well as an expatriate, who by accident of birth has a privileged life, while equally intelligent, hardworking people have little, increase the feelings of guilt. With these feelings, and little real grasp of the complexities of international development, it is an easy leap to a fantasy world to exorcize these demons. By transferring these evils to the government, shadowy security agencies, and greedy corporations, he and all of his readers who participate by believing him become almost guilt free. In several passages of the book he admitted to having lived in a fantasy world. Is he still living in that fantasy world?

There may be, however, a (to use one of the author's often used words) sinister explanation. The author, John Perkins, is a con man. He admits that as a consultant he was a con man. Some less charitable reviewers would say that an author who preys on readers beliefs in super paranormal powers is a con man. His remark quoted above to avoid outright lies and base what you say on glimmers of truth are almost the credo of a con man. Perhaps the niche market for shamanistic, spiritual books is just too small and the market for conspiracy theories just too tempting (think The Da Vinci Code). Watch out for his next book now that he has written a lucrative best seller.

SO WHAT?

So what if a writer crafts a conspiracy theory blaming America, intelligence agencies, and greedy corporations for most of the ills of the underdeveloped world? Because it diverts the public from the real concerns of international development. There are many good books written on this incredibly complex subject. How can we explain how some countries with minimal foreign aid and scarce natural resources take off economically? How do we eliminate the most inefficent tax of all, corruption? How can we quantify those quality of life issues which, as John Perkins correctly notes, are not a part of GDP? How can we harness the efficiency, innovation, and drive of market economics while providing social safety nets and regulating adequately to keep the free for all from getting out of hand? Many very smart, well educated, dedicated people are seeking these answers and writing about them. Economic shape shifting is unlikely to get us to good solutions.






I could provide several dozen more, but I won't bother since it is obvious that even if the book were non-fiction (and it clearly isn't) it has nothing to do with murderous Muslim fanatics and the wisdom (or lack thereof) of bombing their "churches".



Phred


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7260036 - 08/04/07 08:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The idea that the US created Muslim extremism is so laughable it barely merits refutation.




Well, the Muslim world isn't the only segment of the human society that has had negative encounters with the United States, but they are the only ones violently lashing out. American foreign policy has been a major problem that has exacerbated extremism, especially the Iraq war. During Iraq's colonial phase the British were perhaps almost as ruthless with the Iraqis as they were with the Beors, yet the British did need experience the phenomena of popular insurgency during the colonial days of Iraq; asymmetric global jihad didn't exist then either. Western powers could take virtually any Muslim land without any indigenous resistance. Today it seems to be another story completely, a contrast that one can only be attributed to how Muslim society has responded to different situations in their post-colonial period. As it is now, Egyptians and Saudis are more likely to embrace radical jihad in Iraq than Muslims in Jordan, Iran, Syria or Lebanon - and it is no coincidence that Egypt and Saudi Arabia are the realpolitik subjects of American interests. Muslims have every right to be outraged at the United States - at the same time, the U.S. will always reserve the right to protect herself despite playing a large role in today's 21st century dichotomy.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Basilides]
    #7260078 - 08/04/07 09:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Playing a large role in today's 21st century dichotomy?" Firstly, "dichotomy" is a dream long since lost, the world is way more fractured than that. It is veritably us vs them and them and them and them and some of those with the endless vacations as well. But, and this is big, there is no way we can NOT play a huge part. It just isn't possible and to pretend otherwise is just schizophrenic.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7260110 - 08/04/07 09:21 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Of course - but not only has the Iraq war fanned considerable outrage, it has directly harmed American interests on its own merit by letting other "thems" run amuck, particularly Iran. To pretend the U.S. has clean hands in the midst of this spectacle coming from the Muslim world is a bit naive; Muslims are human, and they tend to channel their anger through their rather hawkish religion. It's unfortunately taboo for American politicians to blame U.S. foreign policy in the region as being a contributing factor its mess of unrest.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7260164 - 08/04/07 09:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

whiterasta said:


Son your ignorance, and this is no flame but fact, is astounding. Here is a short list of historical subjects you should Wiki before you post again.
Manuel Noriega
The Shah of Iran
Sadaam Hussein
The Sandanistas
The Kmehr Rouge(sp?)
Osama Bin Laden
Stalin
School of the Americas
Russian /Afghan war
Then perhaps you will actually be informed before you spout such inane responses to what is easily verified.
This such activity recently closed a thread I would just as soon it did not end this discussion,, so please become more informed before you attempt an offensive stance in any arguement please.




You really are a complete comedy act if you don't think that is a flame. What the fuck are you talking about? Are you saying we trained and funded the Sandinistas? The Khmer Rouge? Stalin? Yeah we helped the mujaheedin expel the Soviets. No shit. That doesn't quite equate there, SON, with creating Islamic extremism. If all of this is so easily verified, why don't you put your balls on the table and verify it?

What closed the other thread was you with your increasingly bombastic nonsense regarding the 9/11 attack which I found, frankly, stupid. Like almost everybody else on the planet did. Other planets may have different demographics. Which are you from?




If you were to have actually read my post you would have read these are all former allies who became enemies or in some cases we trained and funded. I never once stated we created Islamic Extremism but we damn sure exploited it and now guess what? We face our own frankenstein.We took basicaly unarmed tribal warriors and trained them with the weapons and techniques that are killing our servicemen today. We are arrogantly disregarding Islamic culture attempting to make them bow before us.Oblivious to the fact that their religion will never let that occur. I well remember the atrocities commited by the Shah of Iran with our backing as Islamic students pleaded with us to help stop backing the Shah. Nobody listened then and we got the Ayatolla Khomeni. We repeated it with Sadaam and it backfired. We backed Noreiga and he was fucking nuts when we backed him not just when we wanted to take him out. How much longer does the list need to be? Pie eyed idealism and patriotic psychosis cannot deny our part in what we face in the middle east.
And really show me more of this excellent logic of if enough people believe it is truth. "DATELINE GERMANY 1939 Zappa is convinced it was the jews that burned the Reichstag when asked claims most folks on the planet believe it too" does that really sound like a position you care to defend?

Yes since we each create our own reality you and I are in separate worlds,however, that you refuse to look beyond the demographic is expressed in a myopic worldview I call " America...FUCK YEAH!"to borrow from matt stone and trey parker.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Basilides]
    #7260181 - 08/04/07 09:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Clean" hands? Nobody has "clean" hands, ever. And I don't think that this has "allowed" whackadoomajad to run rampant at all. I suspect that there is serious quaking in boots going on over there with a happy "blowback" due for the dickheads soon. We'll see.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7260304 - 08/04/07 10:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"Clean" hands? Nobody has "clean" hands, ever. And I don't think that this has "allowed" whackadoomajad to run rampant at all. I suspect that there is serious quaking in boots going on over there with a happy "blowback" due for the dickheads soon. We'll see.




The failure that is the Iraq war has, in every sense, allowed Iran to embolden herself. Prior to 2003, the Iranian regime was contained by Baathist Iraq. Bush created the perfect storm for a long hard slog by Debaathification, disbanding the Iraqi Army, among other things. Really, the war would not be much of an issue if the initial invasion was actually executed properly. Here, we used to have a Sunni authoritarian who despised Iran - replace it with democracy in a country that has a Shia majority, Iran suddenly has a bit breathing room.


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: JT]
    #7260383 - 08/04/07 10:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think we should just let them know that their god doesn't exist. Then they'd be like..."oh shit, i guess we acted pretty dumb for a minute back there. Boy are our faces red..."


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
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To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7260643 - 08/04/07 11:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

whiterasta writes (over a number of posts in the thread so far) :

Quote:

That what we created among the fundamentalist extremists to combat the Russians would soon come back to haunt us.




What did "we" create? The US -- like many other countries -- provided some arms, some money, and some training to Afghani nationals attempting to oust the Godless Commies from their country. Unfortunately, the Afghani nationals in question were Muslim whackjobs, so rather than thank us (or even just leave us alone), they decided to murder us, because even though unlike the USSR we are a God-fearing nation, we are not a Mohammed-fearing nation.

Quote:

It will hurt many peoples worldview to come to terms with the FACT that we created our own enemy on purpose to perpetuate war.




Yeah, right. The whole reason for helping out the Afghani nationals wasn't to throw a monkey wrench into the Soviet's plans during the Cold War... oh no, it was so much more devious than that. The US leaders knew that by helping those Afghanis kick out the Soviets, they were actually making enemies out of them.

"Tell me, Skip, what's the one thing we could do which would piss these ragheads off to the point where we'll gain their undying enmity for at least another two decades?"

"Sir, believe it or not, the best way to do that would be to help them fight off the Commies."

"Skip, that sounds just batshit crazy to me."

"Ah, but you see, sir, that's the brilliance of this plan. The Afghani Muslim tribesmen are batshit crazy so you have to do the exact opposite of whatever you think would work for a normal person."

"But everyone knows Islam is a religion of peace! That's just crazy talk, and damned bigoted besides!"

"Trust me on this one, sir. If we need to create a new enemy for our perpetual war machine to feed off of once we win the Cold War a decade or so from now -- and we will win, sir... the best way to do it is to help these guys out. They'll turn on us like a pack of rabid wolverines, I guarantee it. It's in their nature, sir... they won't be able to help themselves."

"Well... if you're sure about that...."

Quote:

Say generously that including the false acusation that AlQ@da did 9/11...




False accusation? So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is lying when he says he was the guy who organized the 9/11 attacks under Osama bin Laden's orders? What makes you think he is lying about that?

If it wasn't Al Qaeda who did it, who was it?

Quote:

We took basicaly unarmed tribal warriors and trained them with the weapons and techniques that are killing our servicemen today.




If by "we" you mean at least half a dozen countries, then you might have a bit of a point, but Afghanis have been pretty good at fighting off invaders since at least the time of the British Raj. And US casualties in Afghanistan have been pretty minimal to date.

Quote:

We are arrogantly disregarding Islamic culture attempting to make them bow before us.




Oh please! It is quite simply impossible to get any statement more 180 degrees out of phase with reality than that. It is the Islamists who are attempting to get everyone else in the world to bow to them, not the reverse. We don't want them to "bow" to us, we want them to stop murdering folks for not kissing the feet of the prophet. Or -- as is the case in more than half the conflicts going on involving Muslims -- kissing his feet in the wrong way. It can't have escaped your attention that Muslims murder more of each other than they do infidels.

Quote:

Pie eyed idealism and patriotic psychosis cannot deny our part in what we face in the middle east.




Burying one's head in the sand can't deny that this has little to do with the Middle East and everything to so with radical Islam. England, Spain, Indonesia, Turkey, Bali, Morocco, Russia, Thailand, Canada, Kenya... the list goes on. 'Splodeydopes are active everywhere, and have been long before March of 2003.

You suggest others read up on some history? You'd do well to follow your own advice, son. You might want to Google "Barbary Pirates" for a starter.



Phred


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Phred]
    #7261676 - 08/05/07 11:22 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

LOL Phred you are either young and have no personal recollection of the time between 68-80, have done no research,or have completely swallowed the lies the Reagan yrs began, yes much began with Reagan and his policy of Evangelical christian democracy spreading across the globe. So we armed fanatical elements throughout the globe destablizing many countries in latin america and the middle east(oil). Well the S.Americans did not put a lot of faith in the false promises of the west so we only now are reaping our seed there with Chavez standing up and saying "you will USE my country no more!".
In the middle east we promised whatever was wished to be heard to join warring tribes and factions against the Russians into a modern Geurilla force. Yes the Afghani people have always been fierce fighters in ther homeland,it is why we trained them. And again Yes I said WE as I can safely bet that it would not have occured without our instigation. Then when the Russians were routed we vanished along with all the promises we made to bring them together. This gave another glue to bind them, us not being good to our word of economic and military assistance in rebuilding the country post Russian occupation.
They hate us because we lied to them and used them to fight Russia then left them sitting in the bombed wreckage of their country. The US has cut a large swath of good and bad across the world and the bad will always be remembered before the good.But when everyone else says someone is crazy and they say it is everyone else who is crazy. What does Psychology say about that? Well much of the world has spoken and the rhetoric from a lot of americans is the rest of the world is nuts.The fact you call them "splodeydopes" says much about why we are following maniacs to hell. You got a special name for zealots like tillman who are so gung ho they get fragged by their own? How about "Tool of imperialism"
BTW phred You do know we went to Iraq to stop oil flow ,right? The US cannot have oil traded in Euros afterall. Any way I have said my piece and have grown weary of educating people when it is obvious they cannot be swayed by even the most blatant facts.
WR


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7261785 - 08/05/07 12:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Now that right there was one fine piece of religious zealotry.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7261825 - 08/05/07 12:49 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

whiterasta writes:

Quote:

LOL Phred you are either young...




If mid-fifties counts as young, then yes, I am.

Quote:

...and have no personal recollection of the time between 68-80...




Although those years coincided with my time of highest intake of psychedelics, I assure you I do remember that era quite well. Although born and raised a Canadian, I did attend some protests against the Viet Nam war (got whacked upside the head by the fuzz and spent overnight in jail for my trouble), was glued to the TV set during the Watergate hearings, and spent literally hours each night from 1973 to 1980 discussing politics, philosophy and current affairs with my fellow mail sorters on the night shift, many of whom were (I shit you not) actual card-carrying Marxist-Leninists. 

Quote:

...have done no research...




I'm willing to bet a considerable sum of money that no regular poster to this board has done more research on politics and current affairs over the last three and a half decades than I have.

Quote:

...or have completely swallowed the lies the Reagan yrs began, yes much began with Reagan and his policy of Evangelical christian democracy spreading across the globe.




Global Evangelical Christian democracy. Uh huh. I don't think any comment I could make on that would give the readers more insight into your worldview than the statement itself, so I'll just let it lie there for all to grok. I do, however,  remember one thing Reagan said that's appropriate to quote at this point --

"It's not that Liberals don't know anything, it's that so much of what they know is wrong."

I'm guessing from your statements in this forum you're a Liberal.

Quote:

So we armed fanatical elements throughout the globe destablizing many countries in latin america and the middle east(oil).




The USSR did far more to destabilize South America than the US ever did. They certainly supplied far more arms. What, pray tell, does Islamic fundamentalism have to do with Nicaragua or San Salvador?

As for the Middle East, in which of the Middle Eastern countries the US government has supplied arms to since the end of WWII did those arms go to fanatical elements? My understanding was that the arms went to the recognized governments of those countries -- Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt.

Quote:

In the middle east we promised whatever was wished to be heard to join warring tribes and factions against the Russians into a modern Geurilla force.




Ah. I see. In your world, Afghanistan is considered part of the Middle East. A unique geo-politcal perspective, but hey... let's run with it.

Your recollection of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is -- to be as tactful as possible -- hazy. "We" didn't join warring tribes and factions against the Sovs. They fought them from day one, before the US and China and France and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and all the rest started funneling money, arms, and a modicum of training to them. And the only thing "modern" about the muj was the fact that some of them eventually received instruction on how to handle SAM missiles to take out Soviet helicopters. They already knew how to handle rifles and grenades.

As for "join together", I'm laughing my ass off as I type this. The muj were freaking notorious for blowing joint operations because of the infighting among the various tribalized factions. On the other hand, their very independence and factionalism made it even harder for the Sovs to make a lot of headway against them. No centralized command (not even a hint of it) to take out, just handfuls of fiercely independent warlords doing their own thing.

Eventually, long after the Sovs were expelled, enough of these warlords came together to temporarily form what was referred to as the Northern Alliance which targeted the Taliban. As soon as they (with the aid of the NATO forces post 9/11) ousted the Taliban, they returned to their internecine bickering.

Quote:

And again Yes I said WE as I can safely bet that it would not have occured without our instigation.




What a minute, wait a minute. Are you seriously saying the Afghanis did nothing to resist the Soviet invasion until other nations goaded them into doing so? Dude, the irony of you accusing ME of not knowing my history is so screamingly loud my eardrums just burst. Give me a minute here to wipe the blood off my shoulders before it runs down my arms and fouls my keyboard.

Quote:

The US has cut a large swath of good and bad across the world and the bad will always be remembered before the good.




Providing free arms, money and training to people trying to repel godless Commie invaders is something "bad" for them to remember for decades afterwards? Uh huh.

"By the beard of the Prophet (peace be upon him), Omar, I still chortle to myself from time to time when I recall the expression on the face of that infidel dog helicopter pilot near Qandahar as that rocket flew towards him twenty years ago. Do you remember it?"

"Allahu akhbar, Faisal, who could ever forget that glorious day? Two Hinds down in three minutes, a dozen infidels dispatched minus their heads and genitals. Good times, good times. Still, we have yet to send onwards that CIA lackey who hauled those rockets up the pass to us. It troubles me greatly."

"Oh, Omar, did you not hear? Khalid sent us word a year ago that very infidel was one who perished in the glorious rubble of brother bin Laden's greatest triumph in New York. If Allah willed it, his death was a lingering one."

"No, Faisal, I had not heard that!" *In a reverent tone* "Truly Allah is great! But surely his family still lives? Our work is not yet done, I say to you."

"My brother, your steadfastness inspires us all."


Quote:

The fact you call them "splodeydopes" says much about why we are following maniacs to hell.




I realize you pop in here on rare occasions, so you are probably unaware that no matter what one calls those who blow themselves up to take out children in pizza parlors and other children riding schoolbuses, someone here will object --

-- Can't call them Muslims despite the fact (and yes, it is a fact) that over 90% of them profess to be Muslim, because that would be dissing the majority of Muslims who don't self detonate.

-- Can't call them Islamic fundamentalists for the same reason. Lot's of fundamentalists just argue doctrinal points all day, never touching a gun or a bomb.

--Can't call them Islamo-fascists, because that's a made up word intended to invoke imagery of evil Nazis (but of course it's okay to pretend Amerikka is fascist)

-- Can't call them Mad Mullahs because the mullahs rarely sacrifice themselves -- they prefer to incite their followers to do that.

-- Can't call them Jihadis, because our Progressive friends in this forum claim "jihad" can mean an "internal" struggle as well as a struggle using actual violence.

So I sometimes call them 'splodeydopes because it narrows the field down to those fanatical enough to either self detonate or to plant bombs aimed at civilian targets.

Quote:

BTW phred You do know we went to Iraq to stop oil flow ,right?




Then I guess that's just one more thing the US flubbed, seeing as how for several years now the flow of oil from Iraq has been substantially higher than it was from 1991 to 2003. Can't those Yanks do anything right?

Quote:

Any way I have said my piece and have grown weary of educating people when it is obvious they cannot be swayed by even the most blatant facts.




If you ever get around to bringing some actual facts to the table rather than unsupported wild-eyed rants, we'll see if anyone might be swayed by them. Until then, I'll let the readers of this thread draw their own conclusions about your unwillingness to address the worldwide and centuries-old nature of Islamic aggression, and your inability to answer the following questions now posed to you for the fourth time in the thread:

"So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is lying when he says he was the guy who organized the 9/11 attacks under Osama bin Laden's orders? What makes you think he is lying about that?

If it wasn't Al Qaeda who did it, who was it?"


Thank you for your participation and have a shroomy day.



Phred


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7261827 - 08/05/07 12:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:grin:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Now that right there was one fine piece of religious zealotry.


:grin:
ROTFALMAO, Now that was some funny fuckin' shit  :biggrin:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7261955 - 08/05/07 01:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Reagan and his policy of Evangelical christian democracy spreading across the globe.":)


Give him a break Zappa, he comes from a state that only allows a qualified petroleum transportation technician to pump some fucking gas into your car....(It's illegal to pump your own gas.):wtf:


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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7262065 - 08/05/07 02:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

whiterasta, Phred has a point in that he's asked you four times the following question. Why won't you answer it?

Quote:

"So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is lying when he says he was the guy who organized the 9/11 attacks under Osama bin Laden's orders? What makes you think he is lying about that?

If it wasn't Al Qaeda who did it, who was it?"




We're all waiting...


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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Diploid]
    #7262515 - 08/05/07 04:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is lying when he says he was the guy who organized the 9/11 attacks under Osama bin Laden's orders? What makes you think he is lying about that?



I wouldnt rely on confessions delivered by the Pentagon.
They can make him say whatever they want him to say. If they want it :biggrin:


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Arp]
    #7262676 - 08/05/07 05:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well my neocon wisemen. As to your oft repeated question to which you cling for some semblance of a point...Can YOU prove he was not attempting to cash in on the publicity? Do you have personal sources for your information or do you lap up the pablam delivered by the government and media. I have no more reason to believe in this "confession" than to believe that Iraq had WMD's. What about Osama? Wasn't he the bad guy? Oh yeah we aren't even looking for him now.
So for what makes me think he is lying...Or more correctly that we have not been given the truth. Because Our response has been to restrict the citizens of this country liberty and shitcan the constitution. Instead of producing the criminals they alledge we need fear.Hell we hung Sadaam and he had not a damn thing to do with 9/11 so how come no Osama?Do we have Khalid Mohamed in hand?.
If you guys can add this up into the story being sold ,F in math.
WR
PS I am a social liberal and fiscal and governmental conservative with libertarian leanings, more or less the original definition of a republican prior to Reagan. Hell Hubert Humphry was more republican than Reagan.The law in MY country is called the Constitution but it is presently being ignored and outright flouted by a cabal of neocon radicals bent on it's destruction with enormous help from myopic war mongers.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7262698 - 08/05/07 05:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"Reagan and his policy of Evangelical christian democracy spreading across the globe.":)


Give him a break Zappa, he comes from a state that only allows a qualified petroleum transportation technician to pump some fucking gas into your car....(It's illegal to pump your own gas.):wtf:




Yo Texas! that's a pile of Merde` coming from the home of drive thru liquor stores :rolleyes:. Besides we actually get rain and it is pretty nice not to get soaked for a tank in winter :wink:. And the way it really works is we don't let tourists pump gas. Maybe cause we get so damn many from Texas :biggrin:
WR


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7263071 - 08/05/07 07:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

whiterasta writes:

Quote:

As to your oft repeated question to which you cling for some semblance of a point...Can YOU prove he was not attempting to cash in on the publicity? Do you have personal sources for your information or do you lap up the pablam delivered by the government and media.




and

Quote:

So for what makes me think he is lying...Or more correctly that we have not been given the truth. Because Our response has been to restrict the citizens of this country liberty and shitcan the constitution. Instead of producing the criminals they alledge we need fear.




So you think he is lying because he's a publicity hog, but he's not one of the criminals involved in the operation at all -- he's just some random swarthy Arabic fellow the US government detained for the hell of it who had the added bonus of being willing to confess to the crime.

Your "proof" that this is so is that the US government has "shitcanned" the Constitution and restricted the liberty of US citizens, even though there is no action you as a US citizen could legally perform on September 10, 2001 that you cannot now also legally perform.

Got it.

Quote:

The law in MY country is called the Constitution but it is presently being ignored and outright flouted by a cabal of neocon radicals bent on it's destruction with enormous help from myopic war mongers.




US politicians have been ignoring the Constitution since before FDR. He was just the most outrageous flouter of it, and set the stage for accelerated excesses down the road, but he wasn't the first to treat the Constitution as a piece of toilet paper.

However, out of curiosity, I'd like you to reference a specific piece of legislation that Congress has passed since September 10, 2001 which you feel is unconstitutional, or a single Presidential Order signed since that date which you feel is unconstitutional. Who knows? Depending on what you come up with, we may actually end up agreeing on something.



Phred


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Offlineledfut
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Phred]
    #7263088 - 08/05/07 07:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

the patriot act?


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7263201 - 08/05/07 08:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
Seems to abbrogate unlawful search and seizure with the demise of Habeus Corpus for something on the fly. As for further arguement I like my words taken in  context even though spinning is so much fun in a forum :wink:

Quote:

So for what makes me think he is lying...Or more correctly that we have not been given the truth. Because Our response has been to restrict the citizens of this country liberty and shitcan the constitution. Instead of producing the criminals they alledge we need fear.Hell we hung Sadaam and he had not a damn thing to do with 9/11 so how come no Osama?Do we have Khalid Mohamed in hand?.
If you guys can add this up into the story being sold ,F in math.





I will address only my complete quotes,and ask that you answer my questions to you rather than side step the actual thrust of the quote. I know you have no acceptable answer so you quote me out of context to eliminate the questions you cannot reconcile with your position. But do give it a stab.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7263352 - 08/05/07 08:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

ledfut writes:

Quote:

the patriot act?




What part of the Patriot Act do you believe violates the US Constitution? Be specific please. Quote the relevant section.


Phred


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7263387 - 08/05/07 09:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

whiterasta writes:

Quote:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
Seems to abbrogate unlawful search and seizure with the demise of Habeus Corpus for something on the fly.




That's a list of names. Could you quote the section of the legislation you feel is unconstitutional? When was this legislation passed by the Senate? When did Bush sign it into law?

Quote:

I will address only my complete quotes,and ask that you answer my questions to you rather than side step the actual thrust of the quote. I know you have no acceptable answer so you quote me out of context to eliminate the questions you cannot reconcile with your position. But do give it a stab.




What questions do you wish me to answer? The only actual questions in that block were --

Quote:

Hell we hung Sadaam and he had not a damn thing to do with 9/11 so how come no Osama?Do we have Khalid Mohamed in hand?.




I didn't bother to answer either of them because obviously the one about Osama was rhetorical (no Osama in hand because if he is still alive he hasn't been caught yet) and the one about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed I thought you were just goofing around -- it never entered my mind such a keen student of history as yourself wouldn't know that he was captured years ago and is still being held. There was a whole big kerfuffle by the Lefties recently protesting the US decision to finally send him to Guantanamo Bay, remember?



Phred


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Phred]
    #7263726 - 08/05/07 10:21 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
ledfut writes:

Quote:

the patriot act?




What part of the Patriot Act do you believe violates the US Constitution? Be specific please. Quote the relevant section.


Phred




That is a good one phred since it is how many pages thick? How far into it are you? It was prewritten by unelected people and unread by congress and passed unread. As I said I will abide and see what now is fact becomes a lie with time. I would say that the expansion of executive power is pushing things beyond the constitutional ideal without having read the document along with 99.9% of the rest of the world.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: whiterasta]
    #7263879 - 08/05/07 10:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

That is a good one phred since it is how many pages thick? How far into it are you?




Finished it years ago, thank you very much. Are you admitting that you -- the guy who accuses everyone else of not remembering actual events, of not doing research, of swallowing uncritically whatever people tell them -- haven't even started to read it? You instead believe what folks tell you it says rather than reading it for yourself to see what it actually says? I'm shocked... shocked, I tell you!

Dude, the entire text has been available online for over five years. People have been nattering on about it for over five years, quoting and misquoting each other about it. And you can't even reference one of those online snippets?

What a surprise.

Quote:

As I said I will abide and see what now is fact becomes a lie with time.




Good luck with that.

Quote:

I would say that the expansion of executive power is pushing things beyond the constitutional ideal without having read the document along with 99.9% of the rest of the world.




See, that's the difference between people who actually know what they're talking about and people who can't be bothered expending the effort to even minimally inform themselves about the topics they spout off on. You can't provide a single specific example of "expansion" of executive power... you just "know" without reading the document under discussion (or any document, apparently... we're still waiting for a link to something other than a roll call from your last post) that something fishy must be going on, because... well, just because, dammit!

Not big on reading, are you? You know what... I probably gave you too much credit. I'm beginning to suspect you didn't know that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured years back.

Have a shroomy day, my uninformed friend.



Phred


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Phred]
    #7265304 - 08/06/07 09:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It is funny that the liberals are so against the war but it is their ideals specifically that cause Islam to hate us. Gay marriage, abortion, and lack of God in everyday life. They look at us as a threat to how God wants them to live. If anything this is solely due to liberalism and the fact that islam calls for jihad towards non islamics and is clear they cannot befriend us, only kill us or make us slaves.

...and I have studied Islam extensively so I fall into the category of those who know what they are talking about!


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


Edited by TwiztidShroom (08/06/07 09:17 AM)


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265333 - 08/06/07 09:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
It is funny that the liberals are so against the war but it is their ideals specifically that cause Islam to hate us. Gay marriage, abortion, and lack of God in everyday life. They look at us as a threat to how God wants them to live. If anything this is solely due to liberalism and the fact that islam calls for jihad towards non islamics and is clear they cannot befriend us, only kill us or make us slaves.

...and I have studied Islam extensively so I fall into the category of those who know what they are talking about!




Yup it's all the fags, whores, and atheists fault. You certainly do know what you're talking about. You should run for political office. If I wasn't considering becoming a fag whore atheist, I'd consider voting for you.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265340 - 08/06/07 09:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

> but it is their (liberals) ideals specifically that cause Islam to hate us

You mean everybody not Liberal is Islamic? Radical Islam hates anybody that isn't Islam, or anybody that is Islam that isn't radical.

> They look at us as a threat to how God wants them to live.

That is the excuse they preach, but in reality, they use "us" as a excuse to maintain power over the people in the region... just like the Pope used to use the middle east as an excuse to maintain the churches power over the people in Europe.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265464 - 08/06/07 10:30 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
It is funny that the liberals are so against the war but it is their ideals specifically that cause Islam to hate us. Gay marriage, abortion, and lack of God in everyday life. They look at us as a threat to how God wants them to live. If anything this is solely due to liberalism and the fact that islam calls for jihad towards non islamics and is clear they cannot befriend us, only kill us or make us slaves.

...and I have studied Islam extensively so I fall into the category of those who know what they are talking about!


i could almost buy that if i weren't dating a muslim right now.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7265719 - 08/06/07 12:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Ledfut, Good then she has a quaran and a hadith and you can easily verify that there are several key issues with Midleastern muslims, not American muslims. Hadith 9:8 "If anywone leaves Islam, kill them!"
It also states in the Quaran that they are not to make friends with infidels, slave us or slay us no other options. Also Muslims can get to heaven by being good (50.1%) on the scale of life but the only promise and garauntee of heaven is to die in an act of jihad killing infidels. Originally infidels meant non islamics, over the past decades in the middle east it is now a term synonymous with Christians and Americans. I have heard the testimony of two muslim brothers who fled to America because they converted to Christianity and by their culture they were to be brought to the public square, buried up to their neck and be stoned to death for defying Islam....So just because your gf is the eqivalent of a Roman Catholic is to a Charismatic Christian proves nothing. I have spoken with several Imams and they openly admit it, why can't you? They hate our freedom here. Years back there was an issue with muslim women wearing clothes like American women. They were captured and faces burned with acid and jihad was declared against the infidels who encouraged this. They believe Old Testament Law along with the Quaran is how they are to be if the are a devout muslim. There are plenty of half ass Christians who aren't living up to biblical standard. The muslims not living up to the quaran are the peaceful ones...but do you see the terrorism potential with islam. Read the damn books yourself! Both the Quaran and hadith. There is nothing peaceful about islam but there are many islamics who choose bits and pieces of their faith who are.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265730 - 08/06/07 12:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Nice to know muslims can pray in schools and Christians can't...2 states just allowed it...5 times a day they can leave class and pray.
Taxicab drivers in some cities are getting washbasins for their feet and non islamics can't use them...where is the ACLU on this...just proves they are against Christianity...there is no fear of church and state if it is any other religion....bunch of two faced lying hypocrites.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265755 - 08/06/07 12:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

poor Christians :sad:

but at least they will be going to the real heaven? :smile:


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265796 - 08/06/07 12:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
Ledfut, Good then she has a quaran and a hadith and you can easily verify that there are several key issues with Midleastern muslims, not American muslims. Hadith 9:8 "If anywone leaves Islam, kill them!"
It also states in the Quaran that they are not to make friends with infidels, slave us or slay us no other options. Also Muslims can get to heaven by being good (50.1%) on the scale of life but the only promise and garauntee of heaven is to die in an act of jihad killing infidels. Originally infidels meant non islamics, over the past decades in the middle east it is now a term synonymous with Christians and Americans. I have heard the testimony of two muslim brothers who fled to America because they converted to Christianity and by their culture they were to be brought to the public square, buried up to their neck and be stoned to death for defying Islam....So just because your gf is the eqivalent of a Roman Catholic is to a Charismatic Christian proves nothing. I have spoken with several Imams and they openly admit it, why can't you? They hate our freedom here. Years back there was an issue with muslim women wearing clothes like American women. They were captured and faces burned with acid and jihad was declared against the infidels who encouraged this. They believe Old Testament Law along with the Quaran is how they are to be if the are a devout muslim. There are plenty of half ass Christians who aren't living up to biblical standard. The muslims not living up to the quaran are the peaceful ones...but do you see the terrorism potential with islam. Read the damn books yourself! Both the Quaran and hadith. There is nothing peaceful about islam but there are many islamics who choose bits and pieces of their faith who are.


there is much of a "terrorist" threat from islam as there is from christianity/judaism. in fact the latter scares me more because they have bigger weapons and have been open about wanting to use them. until all religion is abolished we will be stuck with quacks on all sides spewing hatred to further their political agendas.

there are plenty of evangelical christians in this country that, if they could get away with it, would kill me for being an atheist that is currently dating a muslim.

western religion is all about hatred and fear of those who are different from you. the one that's more hateful just depends on what team you are rooting for.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265828 - 08/06/07 12:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
Ledfut, Good then she has a quaran and a hadith and you can easily verify that there are several key issues with Midleastern muslims, not American muslims. Hadith 9:8 "If anywone leaves Islam, kill them!"
It also states in the Quaran that they are not to make friends with infidels, slave us or slay us no other options. Also Muslims can get to heaven by being good (50.1%) on the scale of life but the only promise and garauntee of heaven is to die in an act of jihad killing infidels. Originally infidels meant non islamics, over the past decades in the middle east it is now a term synonymous with Christians and Americans. I have heard the testimony of two muslim brothers who fled to America because they converted to Christianity and by their culture they were to be brought to the public square, buried up to their neck and be stoned to death for defying Islam....So just because your gf is the eqivalent of a Roman Catholic is to a Charismatic Christian proves nothing. I have spoken with several Imams and they openly admit it, why can't you? They hate our freedom here. Years back there was an issue with muslim women wearing clothes like American women. They were captured and faces burned with acid and jihad was declared against the infidels who encouraged this. They believe Old Testament Law along with the Quaran is how they are to be if the are a devout muslim. There are plenty of half ass Christians who aren't living up to biblical standard. The muslims not living up to the quaran are the peaceful ones...but do you see the terrorism potential with islam. Read the damn books yourself! Both the Quaran and hadith. There is nothing peaceful about islam but there are many islamics who choose bits and pieces of their faith who are.




So you're saying we should eradicate all religion. Good I thought you were a nut. Let's go burn down some churches, cathedrals, and synagogues tonight and slash the throats of the believers indiscriminate of faith just as long as they believe. What you're advocating is great, I've been wanting to go on a Mickey and Malloy Knox style spree through the bible belt for quite some time now. We'll start domestically and branch out.


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Edited by StrandedVoyager (08/06/07 12:36 PM)


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Arp]
    #7265841 - 08/06/07 12:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Arp, maybe so, that isn't the point. The ACLU and the liberals have gained no ground on anything they support ever without twisting the constitution. 4 Yrs after the 1st ammendment was signed another law was signed making it manditory to teach the Bible in all schools...so obviously the separation wasn't to keep the church out of the govt but to keep the govt from restricting the church. Liberal idiots would say otherwise. So point being, the ACLU in their defense (a totaly liberal org) stated that they would do it to anyone but yet you can teach the quaran in schools alos and they have no issue. My point is the liberals are two faced liars and the ACLU is about agenda and not constitutional rights. I thought it was cool they ultimately lost the 10 Commandments case. There is a statue nearby my moms and they sent a letter asking that it please be removed anyway...it wasn't and they got a big F#@k off letter along with it. Luckily the conservatives are still in control even without the house and senate. We have the supreme court and the majority of American voters. This last election voted for democrats cuz they felt let down by Bush, rightfully so, but not even 6 months into it and the majority remember now why they hate liberals. Even a liberal analyst on the news was saying the other night that the liberals should focus on 2012 cuz they have no chance in 08 and it is a waste of future campaign funds. I'm thinking more along the timeline of Never! Lets be realistic. Obama wants to sleep with the enemy and bomb our allies, wtf? And Hillary is a woman....oh, did I mention Obamma is black, there are a lot of elderly who believed in segregation and more of them have time to vote then people who feel otherwise. We are not that progressive as to elect a woman yet. In a country run by conservatives many were raised to see the womans role as more sumbissive, not like bossy but how people were in the 50's. Plus the majority of Americans are against gay marriage and abortion. Why do you think the liberals wont let it be voted on, because it will lose. So instead they break the law and the judical department starts writing laws? Isn't that the legislatures job? Americans know that the biggest threat to the American way of life is liberalism...that is why your party is shrinking and ours is growing...cept in places like mass. It is also interesting how liberals criticize the conservatives as being only for the rich when in fact the biggest misusers of money and biggest spenders are all blue states....enough with the lying already...liberals suck and America knows it!


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7265852 - 08/06/07 12:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Your god, fucked me in the ass
Jesus Christ, sucked my fucking ass
Your bible is just a piece of trash
I am the highest power the leader of the pack

Hail Mary is so full of shit
Virgin Mary I'll rape the fucking clit
Jesus Christ was a son of a bitch
I am the highest power the leader of the pack

Your church, let's burn it to the ground
Priests and nuns, let's put them in the ground
We don't need those lames to hold us back
I am the highest power the leader of the pack
-Highest Power by GG Allin


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265855 - 08/06/07 12:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I got a kick outta this, poetic justice!


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7265860 - 08/06/07 12:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ledfut said:
Your god, fucked me in the ass
Jesus Christ, sucked my fucking ass
Your bible is just a piece of trash
I am the highest power the leader of the pack

Hail Mary is so full of shit
Virgin Mary I'll rape the fucking clit
Jesus Christ was a son of a bitch
I am the highest power the leader of the pack

Your church, let's burn it to the ground
Priests and nuns, let's put them in the ground
We don't need those lames to hold us back
I am the highest power the leader of the pack
-Highest Power by GG Allin




GG Allin is cool, or at least the story of him is. He was fucking crazed but cool. Too bad he didn't go out the way he always said he would by shooting the crowd and then turning the gun on himself but the man left a legacy, that's for sure.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7265874 - 08/06/07 12:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

eh, he wasn't sure about either gunning people down, or sticking dynamite up his ass then jumping into the crowd.

i think the latter is cooler.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7265881 - 08/06/07 12:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ledfut said:
eh, he wasn't sure about either gunning people down, or sticking dynamite up his ass then jumping into the crowd.

i think the latter is cooler.




Meh both are good, I came across the story as a young lad when I was going through a shock punk phase and the story of the guy and his exploits always kind of stuck with me. Speak of GG, do you know The Dwarves at all?


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7265883 - 08/06/07 12:49 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yeah the dwarves older stuff is pretty cool.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7265891 - 08/06/07 12:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah even though I went through the shock punk phase many years ago, The Dwarves are still one of my favorite bands, I even have the book Blah Dahila wrote even though it's kind of what a five year old with a sexual fixation would write but it's cool cool to own.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7265898 - 08/06/07 12:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yeah i'm gonna start looking into the israeli punk scene. apparently it's very anti-zionist.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7265911 - 08/06/07 12:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I was trying ta upload a pic but it didn't work...


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265915 - 08/06/07 01:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I am not advocating religion at all. It is the core of our problems...hence my examples...


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7265934 - 08/06/07 01:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes you're a young easily led kid who's looking for attention and a fight by spouting the same incoherent press release most people in your position do. Your need to continue posting repeatedly and your username shows that. And I'm glad that you found an identity and something to believe in with your lifestyle choices and what you choose to recite, but I don't even really feel like dignifying you with sarcasm anymore so I'm just going to wait and watch what the response to you shall be. Good luck.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7265991 - 08/06/07 01:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

StrandedVoyager, keep it civil. Attack the points made, not the one who's making the points.


Phred


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7265998 - 08/06/07 01:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

ledfut writes:

Quote:

there is much of a "terrorist" threat from islam as there is from christianity/judaism.




By this I presume you are trying to say there are as many Christian and Jewish terrorists active in today's world as there are Islamic terrorists. This of course is nonsense.




Phred


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Phred]
    #7266654 - 08/06/07 04:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


StrandedVoyager
Loc: (202)-456-1414 Call Me





I did a reverse telephone number lookup for that number. Its the White House. I'm surprised the moderators let him do that. If the feds take the shroomery database, they have everyone's IP address and other information.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Luddite]
    #7266660 - 08/06/07 04:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

They don't have to keep logs and wouldn't the feds need to get a subpoena first?


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7266776 - 08/06/07 05:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineTwiztidShroom
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Luddite]
    #7266864 - 08/06/07 05:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It is funny when people who obviously have no real clear understanding of Christianity or Islam try to make them Equal. 1st- Islam is led by Old Testament Law, an eye for and eye, Christianity believes the law was fulfilled through Christ and there is no need for the OT violence, Christ ordered that it stop, this was a new covenant, one of grace...not kill everyone who isn't a Christian and promises of heaven through physical violence...like Islam. Now bring up the crusades like the little cloned puppet that you are. You fail to see that your oppinions aren't even your own. You are regurgitating the demonic doctrine of millions before you....people are bad, which is why they need redemption and Christians fall just as much as everyone else.

I was going to keep goin but it really would just be silly. It would be like trying to teach physics in french to an Iranian child. Sure I am young, 28 but I have plenty of life experience. I lived on the street 4 10yrs, spent 5 yrs in jail...I wasn't born yesterday and don't assume you know anything. I was an eclectic witch with a passionate hatred for Christians. I felt they were pieces of SH!+ until I had an epiphany and a God experience where I was healed. If there wasn't a God I would have a needle in my arm right now....in my casket. If you just get more ignorant as you have displayed that i'll glady take being young. There is no meaning to life without faith in something.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7266875 - 08/06/07 06:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Your subjective experiences don't teach you definitively that there is a god. You're condescending. It's funny when people claim to have the correct end all view on religion.  :blowme:


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Phred]
    #7266881 - 08/06/07 06:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
StrandedVoyager, keep it civil. Attack the points made, not the one who's making the points.


Phred





I am keeping it simple and going after points made. What this person is espousing is the same generic incoherent fear mongering that is stated by people who either don't know what the hell they're talking about and are looking for something to believe, people who can't see the world in anything more than some basic John Wayne cowboy movie with only the good or the bad, or people with an agenda. Given this person's user name and avatar is based upon a fictitious lifestyle created by some band that has developed a cult following among youth who are looking for something to belong too and an identity I'll let you decide. However, what this person is saying is the equivalent to me of a political hate speech. For the life of me I do not know what a liberal is or where these freedom hating people exist that are trying to destroy the American way of life from the inside out. I mean it sounds to me like outright paranoia the kind of which heats a movement like the Nazis in the 20s and McCarthyism in the 50s. I mean from this person is saying these generic liberals are going to combine with the militant islams to destroy the good Americans who all deserve a lollipop. And you know... I read what's written and I consider the source of where it's coming from and it doesn't match up or make sense. It's just ignorant and foolish to me. Meanwhile the mentality of this person was to continue posting this incoherent press release and post pictures of people lighting themselves on fire to provoke a response. Well... I bit, because I read what this person had to say, I considered how this person was presenting themselves and I responded with exactly what I thought of this person. And granted I shouldve responded with my normal sarcastic :epenis: or :what: but I considered what this person was trying to communicate to be so flawed that I said what I thought and I continue to think this person is obviously a young easily led kid spouting incoherent non-sense who's looking for attention or a fight. And I really think it's quite clear what this is. And that's my opinion.

And yes clearly my jokingly saying my phone number is The White House Switchboard will be the downfall of all of us and the reason the government finally swoops in and takes down the Shroomery. It won't be because of the virtual database and goldmines of info on illegal activity, it will be because I posted a widely known phone number for a public institution as my location.


--------------------
Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


Edited by StrandedVoyager (08/06/07 06:42 PM)


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7266961 - 08/06/07 06:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

> So you're saying we should eradicate all religion.

Perhaps it would be better to eradicate all people that want to force me to follow their religion... as long as I don't have to follow your faith, or the moral values of your faith, you can live... nah, probably wouldn't work.

On a side note... what would happen if the US started to secretly fund groups to go in and bomb mosques/temples/churches used by various radical religions groups (mostly Islamic, but I don't want to be stingy)? I wonder how long it would take the terrorists to realize what was going on.

Take both of the above with a grain of salt...


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Seuss]
    #7267070 - 08/06/07 07:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The United States would be further condemned and there would be a rash of terrorist attacks before a large scale war if it was found out. If the terrorists are going to resort to the lowest possible tactics then we should resort to the lowest possible tactics. It's only fair. Them first.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7269817 - 08/07/07 12:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Rob I agree totally, there is no fair game in war. The terrorists don't abide by the genevia convention, why should we tie our troops hands behind their backs. There was a sniper team that was discovered by a farmer once and they fought with whether or not to kill them. They chose not to as to avoid courtmarshal and their battalion suffered mass casualties as a result. Had they killed the farmer and his 13 yr old son a lot of people wouldn't have lost fathers, brothers, sons, etc...my stepfather is reading the book right now. Thankfully they just lifted the torture ban in Iraq. Time to start pulling off extremeties and getting some answers....and pigs blood!

Seu, would be interesting to see. I say take out the mosque that was built on the mount after the temple of the Lord fell. Wont happen cuz there is a prophesy that says the two shall share the mountain at one point but would still love ta see it.


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I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7269927 - 08/07/07 01:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

you know what i'd like to see. i'd like to see the russians and/or chinese drop nukes on every major city in the us. that way you guys can feel the suffering that you are wishing upon others.


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' *DELETED* [Re: JT]
    #7270079 - 08/07/07 02:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by SubGen1us

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: SubGen1us]
    #7270119 - 08/07/07 02:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

For wishing to end this madness. I am just not ignorant enough to believe this can end without bloodshed. They attacked us on 9-11, Iraq basically happened as an after effect cuz Saddam was being difficult and wasn't honoring the treaty by allowing us unobstucted acces to past WMD site. They should have stated that was the reason for war instead of the WMD bullshit. Eitherway the newest reports are shocking to those liberals who want to see America fail. The report was off success and how we are finally gaining significant ground over there. I agree with Hunter when He said as each of the 192 Battalions, which are presently being trained, once they are ready they can stand in the place of US heavy troops. One buy one we can bring em home. Yank em out and watch Iraq fall apart and every US Soldier would have died in vein.


--------------------
I don't get it, the things I don't want to do, I do. The things I do want to do, I don't do. So if I do the things I don't want to do, then it isn't I that does them, but the sin living in me.

~Corinthians


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: TwiztidShroom]
    #7270375 - 08/07/07 03:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TwiztidShroom said:
For wishing to end this madness. I am just not ignorant enough to believe this can end without bloodshed. They attacked us on 9-11,




Iraq did not attack us on 9-11


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7270433 - 08/07/07 03:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Everyone knows that. They DID have nuclear and biological weapons, however. I know it's not anyones business to police the world and say what country can have what weapons, but the fact of the matter is after Saddam felt threatened he got rid of said weapons. I'm glad for that. We didn't need to invade but the threat of being found out made him get rid of any nuclear weapons that he had. I think that may be the only positive of invading Iraq even though it wasn't necessary. I mean would you really want Saddam to have had those weapons?


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: robbyberto]
    #7270455 - 08/07/07 03:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

They DID have nuclear and biological weapons, however.




Nuclear? Nope. They had made some progress towards making them, true, but they never actually had any at any time.




Phred


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7270843 - 08/07/07 05:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ledfut said:
you know what i'd like to see. i'd like to see the russians and/or chinese drop nukes on every major city in the us. that way you guys can feel the suffering that you are wishing upon others.




That's impossible. They are both our allies. And who would punnish the Russians and Chinese for all the pain they caused? Nobody!


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: ledfut]
    #7270877 - 08/07/07 05:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i'd like to see the russians and/or chinese drop nukes on every major city in the us. that way you guys can feel the suffering

The Russians and Chinese are responsible for more suffering than all we've inflicted on Iraq a thousand times over. Where did you study history? I want to make sure my kids don't go to school there. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Attack the US? We'll bomb your 'churches.' [Re: Diploid]
    #7270880 - 08/07/07 05:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, Mao and Stalin were really nice guys. A lot better than the presidents that we have had. :rolleyes:


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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