Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Amazon Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil
    #7254074 - 08/03/07 01:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Russia's recent claims to vast swaths of the resource-rich Arctic highlight the need for Canada to defend its sovereignty in the region, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday.

While saying he doesn't know exactly what to make of Russia's latest move -- placing a Russian flag on the sea floor beneath the North Pole -- he said it shows Canada can't be complacent about the North.

"It shows once again that sovereignty over the North and sovereignty in our Arctic is going to be an important issue as we move into the future," Harper told reporters after a Conservative caucus meeting on Thursday in Charlottetown, P.E.I.

"This government has put a real emphasis on northern and Arctic sovereignty and we will continue to do so and we will move quickly in that regard."

The government plans to spend $7.5 billion to build and operate up to eight Arctic patrol ships in a bid to help protect northern sovereignty.

Earlier Thursday, Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay dismissed the Russian move, calling the flag-planting tactics "just a show."

Russian explorers dived deep below the North Pole in a submersible on Thursday and planted a national flag on the seabed to stake a symbolic claim to the oil and gas wealth beneath the Arctic Ocean.

A mechanical arm dropped a rust-proof titanium Russian flag onto the Arctic seabed at a depth of 4,261 metres, Itar-Tass news agency quoted expedition officials as saying.

"Look, this isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say 'We're claiming this territory,'" MacKay told CTV's Question Period co-host Jane Taber.

The foreign affairs minister asserted that there was no threat to Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic, despite the latest claims by Russia.

"Our claims over our Arctic are very well-established," MacKay said in Charlottetown.

While Mackay hasn't been in direct communication with his Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, he said Ottawa was making regular contact with Russian officials through the embassy.

The Rossiya atomic icebreaker plowed a route to the North Pole through a sheet of multi-year ice, paving the path for the Akademik Fedorov research ship to follow, said Sergei Balyasnikov a spokesperson for the Arctic and Antarctic research institute that prepared the expedition.

The voyage, which is led by polar explorer and Russian legislator Artur Chilingarov, also has some scientific objectives, including the study of Arctic plants and animals.

But the main goal appears to be strengthening its legal claims to the resources believed to lie beneath the Arctic sea floor.

The symbolic gesture of dropping the Russian flag onto the seabed, is intended to bolster Moscow's claims to about 1.2 million square kilometres of the Arctic shelf.

According to some estimates, it may contain about 9 billion tonnes of oil and gas deposits.

Russia's expedition is partly over oil, but it is also symbolic, says Michael Byers, academic director at The Liu Institute for Global Issues.

The U.S. Geological Survey estimates that 25 per cent of the world's undiscovered oil and gas reserves are on the floor of the Arctic Ocean. But it is also about Russian domestic politics and international politics," Byers told CTV Newsnet.

"The Russian government seeks to remind people that Russia is a powerful country. ... This move to put a titanium flag on the floor of the ocean under the North Pole is a pretty impressive technological feat, even if it has no legal consequences."

About 100 scientists aboard the Akademik Fedorov are looking for evidence that the Lomonosov Ridge, a 2,000-kilometre-long underwater mountain range that crosses the polar region, is a geologic extension of Russia, and therefore can be claimed by it under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

"What Russia is doing in terms of collecting scientific evidence concerning the character of the seabed is actually part of a process at the United Nations whereby countries can claim continental shelves beyond the 320-kilometre mark," Byers said.

Moscow has claimed the polar region since at the least the days of the Bolsheviks.

In 2002, Russian officials argued to the United Nations that there was geological data backing their claim that the Arctic seabed and Siberia are linked by one continental shelf.

The UN dismissed Moscow's application then, citing lack of evidence, but Russia is expected to try again in 2009.

The expedition reflects an intense enmity between Russia, the United States, Canada and other countries -- whose shores face the polar ocean for the Arctic's icebound riches.

Last month, Ottawa said it would build up to eight patrol ships designed to operate in the frozen region in a bid to help protect its sovereignty.

"I think this is an opportunity for Canada to engage in some pro-active diplomacy and also to make its own contributions to this United Nations process by giving more money, more equipment to Canadian scientists so that they can match the Russian efforts on the Canadian side of the North Pole," said Byers.

With files from The Associated Press and The Canadian Press

ctv.ca


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineledfut
I once jerkedoff w/ bothhands
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7254076 - 08/03/07 01:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lol @ canadians trying to act tough.


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleparadox_
Life as Shaun
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 349
Loc: BC
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: ledfut]
    #7254098 - 08/03/07 01:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah great, they drop a $500 flag at the bottom of the ocean where nobody will ever see it and we spend 7.5 billion on a bunch of ships, which will probably float as well as those damn submarines. Good thing to have though. I mean, there's so much action up there what with all the ice. Oh right, and the polar bears too.

Do we even have the technology to profitably harvest that oil 4,261 some-odd metres below the sea? Ill bet the Russians are just laughing at us right now. It's like two children playing with a toy. The only reason the second child wants it is because the first has it.

Just goes to show what a retarded robot Harper is.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinekidaihuan
First Growery Ban
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 3,173
Loc: Shanghai, China
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: paradox_]
    #7254212 - 08/03/07 02:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The next thing we need is the conservative government deciding that another oil war would get Canada in the good books with the US...

...and with Russia?:sad:

I'm happy to be in China. Call it communist, but I'd be happy if I could one day call it home.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7254925 - 08/03/07 10:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I love it.

The planet is warming due largely to the burning of fossil fuels which uncovers our ice caps and what do we do?

Use it to find and burn more fossil fuels of course.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: zorbman]
    #7258568 - 08/04/07 09:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A mechanical arm dropped a rust-proof titanium Russian flag onto the Arctic seabed at a depth of 4,261 metres, Itar-Tass news agency quoted expedition officials as saying.

"Look, this isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say 'We're claiming this territory,'" MacKay told CTV's Question Period co-host Jane Taber.




This has to be the funniest thing I've ever heard. "hey, lets sneak up north and put up our flag... " Russia is acting like a bunch of little kids


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: johnm214]
    #7258571 - 08/04/07 09:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)


Quote:

“I’m not sure whether they’ve put a metal flag, a rubber flag or a bed sheet on the ocean floor,” Tom Casey, spokesman for the US State Department, said, affecting uncharacteristic jollity. “Either way, it doesn’t have any legal standing or effect on this claim.”




Edited by johnm214 (08/04/07 09:31 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: johnm214]
    #7258586 - 08/04/07 09:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Has anyone claimed space yet?

If not, I declare it to be mine.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7258756 - 08/04/07 10:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The global warming alarmist hippies made the Russians take the artic oil and gas away from the west. We need to use coal as if there is no global warming. Screw the rest of the world.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Basilides]
    #7260132 - 08/04/07 07:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Has anyone claimed space yet?

If not, I declare it to be mine.




Seems like its kind of an open question.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_real_estate


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7268661 - 08/06/07 11:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Now the US is heading up there

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070802/70196501.html


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe Crow
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 1,774
Loc: giving birth
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: johnm214]
    #7268772 - 08/07/07 12:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

A mechanical arm dropped a rust-proof titanium Russian flag onto the Arctic seabed at a depth of 4,261 metres, Itar-Tass news agency quoted expedition officials as saying.

"Look, this isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say 'We're claiming this territory,'" MacKay told CTV's Question Period co-host Jane Taber.




This has to be the funniest thing I've ever heard.  "hey, lets sneak up north and put up our flag... "  Russia is acting like a bunch of little kids




They didn't "sneak" over there.



LoL, I really don't know know what to make of this weird confontation, as I am a full citizen of both Russia and Canada. Russia has always been a little greedy, though...all that landmass...
We should solve our internal affairs, and get rid of Putin before trying to claim the North Pole :rofl:


But hey, Russia legalized ALL drugs in moderate amounts, so who can stay mad at 'em?


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7269215 - 08/07/07 04:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Harper to bolster Canada's territorial claims during Arctic visit

OTTAWA -- Assert Canada's Arctic sovereignty by depositing a titanium-encased Maple Leaf flag on the North Pole seabed? Forget it. It's not the Canadian way.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to rely, instead, on a combination of vigorous rhetoric and fresh spending and building initiatives to bolster Canada's territorial claims in the Arctic as he hopscotches across the North this week.

Among other things, the prime minister will presumably end the suspense and name the site for a long-promised deep-water port in the region, and possibly a military training centre as well.

The plan for a trip Friday to the Nunavut community of Nanisivik, site of an abandoned lead-zinc mine that still boasts an airport and an aged dock, has heightened speculation it could end up a winner.

Harper also will visit the nearby Northwest Passage community of Resolute Bay, a scientific research centre and another contender for fresh federal investments.

Harper's expedition opens Wednesday and involves stops in half a dozen spots in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut before wrapping up Friday in Iqaluit.

The first official stop is Fort Simpson, N.W.T., followed by a flying visit to nearby Nahanni National Park Reserve, home to a storied collection of wildlife, mountain ranges, hot springs, waterfalls and canyons, to illustrate the development challenges in the Arctic.

"The protection and enhancement of the environment along with sustainable development is something we must factor into any activity in the North," Carolyn Stewart Olsen, a spokeswoman for Harper, wrote in an e-mail.

Although planned for some weeks, the trip has proved timelier than anyone could have anticipated. It will give Harper the opportunity to counter the Russian government's latest startling bid to assert its sovereignty over a vast, potentially energy-rich stretch of the Arctic by planting a Russian flag -- which was encased in titanium -- on the North Pole seabed.

Since the Kremlin-backed expedition came to light late last month, Harper has faced stepped up calls from politicians and a leading Canadian expert on Arctic sovereignty to fight back diplomatically and also on the ground by changing course and purchasing full-fledged, year-round icebreakers capable of going anywhere, including the area the Russians are claiming.

Harper announced plans last month to spend about $7 billion on the construction, retrofitting and maintenance of up to eight specially reinforced Arctic patrol vessels capable of operating in ice up to a metre thick.

"Canada has a choice when it comes to defending our sovereignty over the Arctic," Harper said at the time. "We either use it or lose it. And make no mistake, this government intends to use it."

Harper also promised anew that a deep-water port would be built in the Arctic to service the vessels.

The announcement of patrol vessels fell short, however, of the Conservatives' election promise to build three armed icebreakers capable of crashing through six-metre thick ice.

NDP Leader Jack Layton dismissed Harper's chosen vessels as "slushbreakers," and accused the government of relying too heavily on military activities to protect the country's Arctic sovereignty.

In an interview and an open letter to the prime minister, Layton said a more comprehensive approach to asserting sovereignty would require improving the social and economic health of remote communities, and investing in polar icebreakers for the Canadian Coast Guard that would be capable of breaking ice for commercial vessels and research activities. They also could help re-supply northern communities and provide search and rescue support.

Michael Byers, Canada Research Chair in global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia, has advocated purchasing two heavy icebreakers and putting more money into mapping Canada's northern continental shelf in support of future territorial claims.

Premier Joe Handley of the Northwest Territories and Mary Simon, a national Inuit leader, also have called on the government to revive the position of circumpolar ambassador, a job it axed last year.

Five polar countries - Canada, Russia, the U.S., Norway and Denmark - are competing to secure subsurface rights to the Arctic seabed, a vast expanse believed to hold billions of dollars in oil and gas deposits.

Harper's tour comes almost a year to the day after his first official trip North, during which he declared "action to protect our territorial integrity in the Arctic has never been more urgent."

The trip attracted almost no media coverage. Indeed, many Canadians would not have known the prime minister was in the North except that he took a high-profile verbal beating from critics for choosing the Arctic tour over accepting an invitation to appear at the 16th International AIDS conference in Toronto.

This time, Harper, who is traveling without his wife and children, is seeking national coverage.

In a rare nod to the parliamentary press gallery in Ottawa, Harper has arranged to have a small media entourage accompany him.

The prime minister has often made it difficult for Ottawa-based reporters to cover his domestic trips outside of the capital by providing little advance notice of his plans.

---------------------------------------------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: The Crow]
    #7271234 - 08/07/07 05:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Crow said:
LoL, I really don't know know what to make of this weird confontation, as I am a full citizen of both Russia and Canada. Russia has always been a little greedy, though...all that landmass...

We should solve our internal affairs, and get rid of Putin before trying to claim the North Pole :rofl:




What makes you want to get rid of Putin, and who would you prefer?


Quote:


But hey, Russia legalized ALL drugs in moderate amounts, so who can stay mad at 'em?



I haven't read that anywhere, can you clarify your comment?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271241 - 08/07/07 05:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I agree. Putin needs to go.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: zorbman]
    #7271255 - 08/07/07 05:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I was asking about why. He has an approval rating above 70% in his country, and 2/3rds want him to stay on as President for a 3rd term... so I'm wondering why Cow wants him to go. Are you Russian aswell?

Generally, when a US citizen wants Putin to go it's because they've been trained to dislike him by their own media and government, and it doesn't really carry any clout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271278 - 08/07/07 05:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

they've been trained to dislike him by their own media

You mean by the free media that Putin has cracked down on in Russia because he doesn't want them to report the Truth, kinda like what the Chinese do?

In America the media freely report, and the people decide for themselves. In Russia, Putin decides what news the people can hear at all. It's for their own good that they never read about Russian police oppression of the people, you see. It keeps them happy. :shake:

As for Putin's approval rating, well, when Husein ran Iraq, he got a 100% re-election vote. There was not a single vote against him out of millions. Of course, he controlled the media there too so who knows how accurate that vote count was. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271367 - 08/07/07 06:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Could you please be more serious than suggesting that Putin's approval is doctored ala Hussein?

That you think Putin is sheltering Russia from the Truth is a perfect example of how US citizens are trained, brainwashed, to harbor all these sentiments against Putin.

The media centers Putin cracked down on were funded by the US, and used by US spies to spread dissent in Russia the same way they did in Ukraine, Georgia and Kyrgyzstan, which is why they were shut down. Why do you think the US cried so loudly when Russia cut them off?

As for political critics in their news, Russia still has many, and they are not shut down.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271391 - 08/07/07 06:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
In America the media freely report, and the people decide for themselves.



Good one. I remember when the US decided on Iraq.

Quote:


In Russia, Putin decides what news the people can hear at all. It's for their own good that they never read about Russian police oppression of the people, you see. It keeps them happy. :shake:



What nonsense. Please do some research before running your mouth. I think my case of the US being trained to harbor specific beliefs concerning Russia is well proven by you.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271432 - 08/07/07 06:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Please do some research

OK. Here's a story by the BBC who last I checked wasn't an American brainwashing operation.

It's amazing how you criticize American free media but not a word about Russian government controlled media.

If you were in Russia saying the same thing about Russian media, you'd be disappeared and no one would ever know what happened to you.

But then hypocrites love to live in the US while they criticize it. You never see them moving to Russia where they can be part of that 70% approval rating Putin has garnered in part through control of what news the people can read.

--

news.bbc.co.uk

Russia has recorded no attacks resulting in massive loss of civilian life in the year since pro-Chechen militants seized the school in Beslan.

But in Chechnya itself, civilians continue to suffer as the separatist war grinds on - much of it unpublicised because of Russian media restrictions.

Hardly a night passes without a rebel ambush or a raid by security forces, the latter sometimes only reported by human rights groups.

Chechen refugees may no longer spend the freezing winters in tents. But many remain scattered outside their homeland, dispossessed and often living in atrocious conditions, on former dairy farms, in factories and train carriages.

"There hasn't been a war in Chechnya for three years - the war is over," Russian President Vladimir Putin told foreign reporters late last year.

Yet the violence that has engulfed Chechnya and spread
beyond has not receded, and Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, who claimed the Beslan attack, does not rule out further mass hostage-takings.

As Beslan remembers its lost children, bitterness on both sides continues to drive a particularly brutal conflict.

Lonely fight

If the war is over for Vladimir Putin, it has only gone into its sixth year for the new appointed leader of the Chechen rebels, Abdul-Khalim Saydullayev.

In a speech released online last month, he said no political step taken in the West regarding Chechnya was comparable in significance to a single attack on Russian soldiers by Chechen fighters.

"If anybody really thinks the fate of the Chechen people is decided in Strasbourg, Washington or Moscow, they are deeply mistaken," he added.

Mr Saydullayev's speech suggests the rebels now despair of any meaningful outside intervention in Chechnya.

They argue that events like Beslan must be viewed alongside their own civilian losses and accuse Russia of pursuing "genocide".

That term has particularly painful associations after Stalin's mass deportation of Chechens and their Ingush neighbours in 1944 on suspicion of Nazi sympathies.

Tens of thousands of Chechens are thought to have perished before survivors were allowed to return from Central Asia in 1957. The event was a key Chechen argument for declaring independence in 1991, while other regions like Ingushetia and North Ossetia, where Beslan is located, were choosing to remain as autonomous republics.

Russia's indiscriminate bombing and shelling of Chechen towns and villages, particularly during the 1994-96 war, and "dirty war" tactics such as kidnappings, are widely believed to have radicalised Chechens further.

"It is undeniable that 'disappearances', killings, torture and ill-treatment continue to be a frequent occurrence, with abuses attributed to both federal and the various Chechen security forces, as well as Chechen armed opposition groups," Amnesty International's Victoria Webb told the BBC News website.

Adding fuel to the fire, many rebels view the conflict as a religious struggle, regarding themselves as Muslims pitted against a "godless" secular state.

Search for leadership

The death of Aslan Maskhadov in a Russian attack in March meant the loss of a veteran Chechen leader who had negotiated a peace deal before Vladimir Putin came to power.

He denounced the Beslan attackers as "madmen," while arguing that brutality by Russian troops may have driven them out of their senses.

Diederik Lohman of Human Rights Watch (HRW) says the rebels have long appeared to lack strong, central control.

"My sense has always been that it is a lot of loosely affiliated little groups that have more or less the same ideas about what they want to achieve, and use the same methods, but it is not necessarily coordinated," he told the BBC News website.

In his book Inside Putin's Russia, Andrew Jack contrasts Chechen fortunes to those of the neighbouring Ingush, whose success in peacefully forging a republic of their own within Russia he attributes largely to good political leadership at the right time.

Though ever a critic of Moscow's use of force, Ruslan Aushev earned broad respect as Ingush president.

At Beslan, he helped negotiate the release of 26 people, including babies, when he went into the school during the siege.

Minutes before the explosions began on the last day, he was still talking to the hostage-takers by telephone.

Impunity

An avowed aim of the Kremlin in the North Caucasus - "freedom and justice" - rings hollow for many.

Chechnya has become synonymous with a sense of impunity, as Beslan mothers demand prosecutions over the authorities' handling of the school siege, Chechens point to the small number of Russian soldiers prosecuted for human rights abuses and Russians demand justice for Russian civilians targeted under Chechen rebel rule.

At least 400 Beslan residents signed an open letter to the world on the anniversary of the siege declaring: "We do not want to live any longer in a country where human life means nothing."

Amnesty's Victoria Webb says the situation in Chechnya may be "one of the effects of a government policy that only pays lip service to human rights principles".

Russian security forces sent to Chechnya are influenced by two stereotypes: Chechens as criminals and Chechens as terrorists.

Chechens have been seen as playing a disproportionate part in organised crime in Russia's cities, while attacks on airliners and other civilian targets made for a summer of fear in Moscow before Beslan.

Russians who speak of "genocide" in Chechnya usually mean something very different: the fate of the estimated 270,000 Russians and other non-indigenous residents who made up nearly a quarter of Chechnya's population when the USSR broke up.

Largely abandoned by the Russian state, they quickly became scapegoats when the rebels declared independence.

Attempts to properly document the extent of the violence they suffered have run up against a wall of silence in Moscow.

In Chechnya, a few years after the second war began, there were practically no non-indigenous residents left, according to the Russian human rights group Memorial.

Now scattered across Russia, embittered Russian refugees pass on a message of unavenged wrongs.

Incalculable cost

"Next morning it snowed/After all the firing/The snow killed me/Put out a short life."

Dead City, Russian rock singer Yuri Shevchuk's requiem for Grozny, captures some of the horror of a war in which innocence may look out of place.

According to an HRW estimate, gleaned through field work among Chechen refugees in the absence of reliable figures from Moscow, a total of about 50,000 civilians died in the two wars, about a tenth of them children.

Beslan horrified Chechens too, Diederik Lohman points out, but the question many also ask is: "Where was the world when our children were dying under Russian bombs?"

--

Somehow I doubt that 70% of these hundreds of thousands of Russians caught up in this shit approve of Putin.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271440 - 08/07/07 06:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Please do some research

Here's some more research for you:

news.bbc.co.uk

President: Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

Vladimir Putin was elected to a second term as Russian president by a landslide in March 2004 with around 70% of the vote. His nearest rival, the Communist candidate, mustered 14%.

Western observers were quick to criticise media bias in favour of Mr Putin during the campaign.

They had been similarly critical when United Russia, the party backed by the president, won a landslide victory in parliamentary elections the previous December and liberal parties lost virtually all their seats.

Concerns about Mr Putin's attitude to the media are not new. They came to the fore when private TV stations critical of the Kremlin were forced off the air in his first term. Not everyone was convinced by his insistence that this was business, not politics.

Vladimir Putin started his career in the ranks of the KGB. From 1990 he worked in the St Petersburg administration, before moving to Moscow in 1996. By August 1999 he was prime minister.

He was named acting president by his predecessor, Boris Yeltsin, who introduced him as the man who could "unite around himself those who will revive Great Russia".

He went on to win presidential elections in May 2000, having gained widespread popularity for his pledge to take a tough line against Chechen rebels.

After the bloodbath which ended the Beslan school siege in September 2004, Mr Putin controversially took over control of the appointment of regional governors who had been directly elected for the previous decade. He said the move was intended to tighten the Kremlin's grip on the regions. Critics saw it as undermining democracy.

Mr Putin has said he wants to modernise Russia and has been credited with introducing economic reforms which have balanced the budget and cut inflation. As the birth rate falls and health problems persist across the country, he promises to seek ways of stemming a rapid decline in the population.

Vladimir Putin was born in St Petersburg in 1952. Under the current constitution, his second term must also be his last. Presidential elections are due in 2008.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271626 - 08/07/07 07:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Chechnya is its own issue and does not paint the picture for news coverage within Russia. What paints the picture of what I'm talking about is the anti-kremlin protest turnd riot that occured in March. The protest march was organized and led by a US agent, while permission to conduct the protest at that time had been denied and that the St. Petersburg square (where the march took place) had been set aside for a children's festival. Logically, when the march occured against legal authority riot police were dispatched to break up the protest. US news outlets and politicians then reported anti-democracy crackdowns were taking place in Russia, when the reality is that it had nothing to do with being anti-democratic.

What I said previously about his approval and everything else stands, and instead of going on tangents please quote me and provide a relevant response. Displaying that there was a lack of new on Chechnya does not mean that Russia is kept from hearing of criticism towards Putin, nor does it show that the US has not been trained, whereas the St. Petersburg protest incident does. I suggest this for reading.


http://www.youtube.com/v/WdI7cA06-M4
Notice how the CNN reporter, like you, holds the assumption that Russians don't hear of critial news, and notice how he's informed how faulty that belief is.


But in the end I'm not interested in arguing with someone who wouldn't know whether Putin is good or bad, instead I'd like to hear from The Cow, who at least has Russian citizenship (tho I don't know if that means he lives there) why he thinks Putin needs to go, and who he wants to have in place of him.


Edited by Disco Cat (08/07/07 08:01 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271684 - 08/07/07 07:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Chechnya is its own issue and does not paint the picture for news coverage within Russia.

Ah, so when I say that Russian media is controlled by the government, you call me a bullshitter. When I back it up, you backpedal and say that Chechnya doesn't count.

I see how it is. :thumbdown:

And Chechnya aside, you missed this part of the BBC report:

Concerns about Mr Putin's attitude to the media are not new. They came to the fore when private TV stations critical of the Kremlin were forced off the air

Putin may well not have been elected if not for the government's control of the media slant and shutting down private TV stations that reported unfalteringly about Putin. At least in the US, the media slants every which way and THE PEOPLE decide for themselves which one to believe.

And today the 70% approval rating Putin enjoys may not be there if the media were free to report whatever they wanted. Approval ratings in a state-controlled media environment don't amount to shit. This is why the comparison to Husein's 100% election result is apropos.

Both are based on government lies and half-truths.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271716 - 08/07/07 07:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I suggest this for reading.

Excerpt:

...But first, what is wrong with how the protest movement is being sold to the West. Gary Kasparov, the man they're making into the next Nelson Mandela, is what's wrong. You probably haven't read about this anywhere (unless you read the Russian blogger world), but Kasparov is so deep in bed with the vilest of America's neo-con goons, a VIP member of their PR-politics-lobbying network, that it almost seems like a bad setup. The strangest thing of all is how no one in the major Western media has touched on Kasparov's neo-con connections.

Gary Kasparov is a minor political figure at home, but he gets unusually high-profile access to every major media outlet in the West. The more far-right the media outlet, the more Kasparov-friendly it is. Case-in-point: The Wall Street Journal now identifies Kasparov as a "contributing editor" to that paper's opinion page, largely because he has been such a regular contributor. The Cheney/neo-con agenda, spelled out in the Project for a New American Century, calls for containing Russia and keeping it weak in order both to control the Caspian Sea resources and to prevent a potential rival from checking American power. That agenda exactly describes the opinion page of The Wall Street Journal. The Journal has been stridently anti-Putin, particularly since the arrest of former Yukos owner Mikhail Khodorkovsky -- an arrest which was a major blow to American oil interests.

Far more disturbing than Kasparov's status as a "contributing editor" to the Wall Street Journal, even as the same paper writes up his role in the protest movement, are his ties to the far-right foreign policy machine. Specifically, Gary Kasparov is, or was, a member of the neo-con Center for Security Policy. The think-tank's mission statement declares that it is "committed to the time-tested philosophy of promoting international peace through American strength." And Kasparov is not just a casual member - he once served on the CSP's National Security Advisory Council, an inner-working group headed by ex-CIA goon James Woolsey. It's a group with extensive ties to the Pentagon. The Center for Security Policy's member list reads like a Who's Who of the neo-con elite: along with Woolsey, it boasts Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Elliott Abrams and Frank Gaffney, and was highly influential not just in formulating President Bush's disastrous imperial strategy in his first term, but also in lobbying for the repeal of the ABM treaty, a move which was in many ways the start of the growing rift between Russia and America.

The major Western media has yet to report Kasparov's role in the Center for Security Policy. And the organization has done its best to air-brush Kasparov's membership from its history. Kasparov's name no longer appears on the CSP's website, although if you look through wikipedia, you'll find the cached web pages that used to be up. Why would they try to erase the past?

One reason why Kasparov's name was removed has to do with conflict of interest. After last weekend's protest, not only did the Wall Street Journal shake its indignant fist at Putin's authoritarianism on behalf of its own contributing editor, but the Washington Times and other outlets printed an equally damning, pro-Kasparov piece by none other than Frank Gaffney, the Center for Security Policy's founder. Neither Gaffney nor the Washington Times mentioned his links to Kasparov.

It is not only odd that the Western media is ignoring this -- it's downright sinister. And it feeds into the paranoia and cynicism which fuels the Kremlin's thinking. It's almost too perfect, too clean: the leader of the anti-Putin movement is directly tied to the American far right, whose stated goal is to keep Russia weak and to claim the resources in its backyard. Meanwhile, the supposedly-free Western media not only doesn't report this, but builds up Kasparov as a modern-day Gandhi, much the same way that the Kremlin-controlled media here cynically builds up its own "virtual" nationalists and leftists and sells them to a gullible public that doesn't know any better. How could this be? What is this really all about?

* * *
The other fact missing from nearly every Western media account of the protests is that last weekend's marches weren't banned. People do have a right to hold anti-government rallies here. But they are restricted, sometimes severely. For example, the opposition wasn't allowed to hold their rally on Pushkin Square as requested; they were given nearby Turgenevskaya Square instead. Albeit just for an hour.

---------------------------------------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271738 - 08/07/07 08:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

LMAO! :rofl2:

From your own source:

People do have a right to hold anti-government rallies here. But they are restricted, sometimes severely. For example, the opposition wasn't allowed to hold their rally on Pushkin Square as requested; they were given nearby Turgenevskaya Square instead. Albeit just for an hour.

So much for freedom of assembly in Russia: a single hour in an out-of-the-way place where few people will ever know about it instead of in Pushkin Square which is a mile from the Kremlin and where lots more people would have seen the demonstration.

You really should read your own sources before using them to (not) back up your position.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271749 - 08/07/07 08:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Chechnya is its own issue and does not paint the picture for news coverage within Russia.

Ah, so when I say that Russian media is controlled by the government, you call me a bullshitter. When I back it up, you backpedal and say that Chechnya doesn't count.

I see how it is. :thumbdown:




Knock that shit out, I didn't say that at all. If you can't do better than acting like a baby in a quarrel, or raise your comprehension skills to an appropriate level I'm not going to waste time engaging. Or maybe you're intentionally slanting what I say and riding off on tangents, which would be quite ironic given the subject matter.


Quote:

Putin may well not have been elected if not for the government's control of the media slant and shutting down private TV stations that reported unfalteringly about Putin. At least in the US, the media slants every which way and THE PEOPLE decide for themselves which one to believe.



The media slanting every which way does not equal truth when averaged out, it means that any way people do choose to believe will be tainted one way or another.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271770 - 08/07/07 08:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
LMAO! :rofl2:

From your own source:

People do have a right to hold anti-government rallies here. But they are restricted, sometimes severely. For example, the opposition wasn't allowed to hold their rally on Pushkin Square as requested; they were given nearby Turgenevskaya Square instead. Albeit just for an hour.

So much for freedom of assembly in Russia: one hour in an out-of-the-way place where few people will ever know about it.

You really should read your own sources before using them to (not) back up your position.




LMAO! :rofl2:
You think that that line contradicts me, you clearly have been clueless during this whole discussion as to what we've been discussing and the extent of my claims :rofl2:
You also don't know the difference between restriced and silenced! LMAO :rofl2:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271779 - 08/07/07 08:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You've been claiming that there is a free press in Russia. I've shown you (and you've unwittingly shown it as well) that this is bullshit. There is no free press in Russia, and that is in large part due to Putin's policies.

And if you think that a popularity poll in a controlled-media environment means anything, then I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271791 - 08/07/07 08:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
You've been claiming that there is a free press in Russia.



LMAO! :rofl2: No I haven't! I've been saying that werstern criticisms of Putin are largely doctored and a negative picture of him is being sold to US citizens beyond what is true.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271804 - 08/07/07 08:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You also don't know the difference between restriced and silenced!

Silenced? You mean like the several TV stations forcibly taken off the air when they pissed off Putin?

Forcibly taken off the air means they were silenced, in case you have trouble with reading comprehension.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineledfut
I once jerkedoff w/ bothhands
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271814 - 08/07/07 08:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
LMAO! :rofl2:

From your own source:

People do have a right to hold anti-government rallies here. But they are restricted, sometimes severely. For example, the opposition wasn't allowed to hold their rally on Pushkin Square as requested; they were given nearby Turgenevskaya Square instead. Albeit just for an hour.

So much for freedom of assembly in Russia: a single hour in an out-of-the-way place where few people will ever know about it instead of in Pushkin Square which is a mile from the Kremlin and where lots more people would have seen the demonstration.

You really should read your own sources before using them to (not) back up your position.


sounds an awful lot like "free speech zones" that they have here in the states.

if you love bush & dick you get to put signs wherever you want. if you don't, well then we are going to lock you guys into a fenced in area at least 1/2 mile from where anything important is going on.


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: ledfut]
    #7271825 - 08/07/07 08:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

sounds an awful lot like "free speech zones" that they have here in the states

In the US, we don't restrict demonstrations to one hour. :shrug:

if you love bush & dick you get to put signs wherever you want. if you don't, well then we are going to lock you guys into a fenced in area at least 1/2 mile from where anything important is going on.

You must be referring to the anti-Bush demonstrations that have taken place front and center recently in Washington, DC, right?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271840 - 08/07/07 08:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

On the subject of comprehension, nice going taking the line out of its context of the allowance of organized protests back to the US special interest funded radio stations that were shut down and which resulted in the expelltion of several US spies.
I think this conversation has run its course, hopefully you agree.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271854 - 08/07/07 08:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How about those whitehouse press conferences where the questions are doctored beforehand with their answers typed out, and if someone asks a question that isn't preselected the reporter is thrown out and never invited back. How wonderfully free the press is in the US. If you talk about something the Pres doesn't want you to he throws you out. You might say that the press is governmentally restricted, because that is in fact what it is.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271873 - 08/07/07 08:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

and if someone asks a question that isn't preselected the reporter is thrown out

I call bullshit.

Link up a news story where a reporter was thrown out of a White House press conference for asking a question that wasn't on the list.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271886 - 08/07/07 08:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ha! I'm suprised you aren't aware. Call bullshit and do the research yourself. The fact that is isn't widely reported on is a comment in itself.

Remember that immigration protest in Los Angelos that occured 2 weeks after the St. Petersburg protest? Riot police beating reporters and demonstators... and unlike the St. Petersburg protest, the L.A. one was legal.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7271897 - 08/07/07 08:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The fact that is isn't widely reported

Yeah, right. You expect us to believe that a reporter is kicked out of a White House press conference and it doesn't get reported?

do the research yourself

You're the one making the claim.

Second request:

Link up a news story where a reporter was thrown out of a White House press conference for asking a question that wasn't on the list.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7271965 - 08/07/07 08:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Still no link. So it's like I thought it was:

You're a liar.

You post lies because sticking to the truth would undercut your position. You debate to be right, not to converge on the truth, whatever it may be.

Way to go. :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
    #7272083 - 08/07/07 09:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What laughable nonsense from you. I've been in my kitcken cooking since my last post.

Where do you pull this "debate to be right" and "sticking to the truth" stuff out of? And with the dramatics of "Way to go :thumbdown:"... it's akin to watching Fox news.

There's a video someplace of a reporter being removed after asking one of the Bush Administration personnel an unscripted question at a conference. Don't know how I'd go about finding it tho.

Quote:


http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/3/8/12559/73819
Ari Fleischer admits Bush called from a prepared list of reporters

By maynard in Media
Mon Mar 10, 2003 at 05:28:45 AM EST
Tags: Politics (all tags)   
March 7th, 2003, at an official press briefing, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer twice admitted under questioning that the President's staff preselected which reporters to call, and the order, for the East Room Press Conference on the evening of March 6th, 2003. This Press Conference was President Bush's eighth solo news conference since inauguration, and the second formally presented in the East Room during prime time.

Mr. Fleischer responded to a reporter's query over a short gaffe in which the President was heard to say to a reporter, "You'll be there in a moment," upon which he then called CNN correspondent John King and remarked "...this is a scripted...[pause]", after which an outburst of laughter from the press pool could be heard. The president then moved directly onto the next question. An audio excerpt of this gaff is available from this Buzzflash commentary.





  • Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7272102 - 08/07/07 09:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Third time now:

    Link up a news story where a reporter was thrown out of a White House press conference for asking a question that wasn't on the list.

    This is what you lied about a few posts back, and this is what I'm asking you to back up.


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7272183 - 08/07/07 09:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Oh, I thought you were debating that reporters and questions are pre-selected. If you aren't then it really doesn't matter if someone was thrown out because that only matters to the extent that it supports the claim that the areas the press looks into at a white house conference are directed.
    Regardless, there's a video of it out there whether you believe it or not, not that it mean anything if you don't already debate that reporters and questions are pre-selected.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7272199 - 08/07/07 09:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Translation: I lied and Dip caught me. :smirk:


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7272234 - 08/07/07 09:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    No, it's true. You're really reaching for some small victory here tho, unreasonably so.

    Being thrown out of the white house isn't the important part because it adds nothing to the debate. That reporters and questions are pre-selected is what is important to the debate. That someone was thrown out only highlights that reporters and questions are pre-selected. Since the point that they are, in fact, pre-selected is seemingly acknowledged by you it is 100% irrelevant whether someone was thrown out or not.
    At least be sensible enough to recognize this.

    And the point of all that is to display that the US press is gevernmentally restricted.


    Edited by Disco Cat (08/07/07 09:50 PM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7272299 - 08/07/07 09:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Since the point that they are, in fact, pre-selected

    Most White House press conferences are not scripted. You are disproportionately harping on one press conference that was scripted out of thousands that aren't, again trying to be right rather than trying to get to the Truth.

    That reporters and questions are pre-selected

    And you think the questions reporters ask Putin aren't?

    Reporters have always had to walk a fine line when questioning any important person. This goes for George Bush, Bill Gates, and Mother Theresa alike. It's a truism of journalism and has always been so. If you piss off your interviewee, he may never give you another interview.

    This doesn't change the fact that in the US, the free press can dig for dirty laundry. And if the damning revelations of abuse at Abu Graib discovered by the free press aren't enough to convince you that there's a difference between journalism in the US and journalism under Putin's boot in Russia, then like I said, you're just arguing to be right.

    I don't know what else to tell ya.


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7272393 - 08/07/07 10:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Quote:

    Most White House press conferences are not scripted. You are disproportionately harping on one press conference that was scripted out of thousands that aren't, again trying to be right rather than trying to get to the Truth.





    Staged Answer Sessions and Pre-planned Interviews Overshadow White House Press Corps
    August 26, 2004

    PEN USA’s First Amendment Action Committee is disappointed in the Bush administration’s tactics to overshadow press corps reports with false and staged interviews from Bush supporters.

    Instead of taking questions from reporters, President Bush has increasingly begun to take questions and interviews only from citizen-supporters, who often were made to sign a political loyalty oath to be allowed into the events.

    These events, called “Ask Bush,” of which there were four last week, the President gave a long speech and then staged interviews with prepared guests. Afterward, supporters asked him such questions as, “Mr. President, you were a fighter pilot, and you were with the 147th Fighter Wing? …And flew a very dangerous aircraft, the Delta F102?...I want to thank you for serving our country.” (transcript here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040813-7.html).

    White House press corps veteran and columnist Helen Thomas recently was quoted as saying, “The President of the United States should be able to answer any question, or at least dance around one. At some time—early and often—he should submit to questioning and be held accountable, because if you don’t have that then you only have one side of the story. The Presidential news conference is the only forum in our society, the only institution, where a President can be questioned. If a leader is not questioned, he can rule by edict or executive order. He can be a king or a dictator. Who’s to challenge him? We’re there to pull his chain and to ask the questions that should be asked every day, for every move.”

    While supporters are definitely welcome and expected at events where the President speaks, those citizens who may not agree with his policies, or have pressing questions should be allowed as well. However, the audience in these “Ask Bush” events is carefully screened to keep out anyone who might ask a difficult or negative question, dealing maybe with the September 11th attacks, or the war in Iraq. Before attending events like these, citizens must prove they are supporters of Bush, and are often asked to sign waivers such as the one used in New Mexico for a rally with Vice President Dick Cheney. The form read as such: “I, (full name)… do herby endorse George W. Bush for reelection as President of the United States…” and states “in signing the above endorsement you are consenting to use and release your name by Bush-Cheney as an endorser of President Bush.” In Traverse City, Mich., a 55-year-old social studies teacher who wore a small Kerry sticker on her blouse had her ticket torn up at the door. “How can anyone in the United States deny someone entry?” she asked. “Isn’t this a democracy?”

    So, Bush usually ends up talking to conservative, highly-religious crowds whose question/statements sometimes do not even require answers. Often they simply thank Bush for bringing “God back into the White House” or for being such a strong leader. The questions are never about important issues, and are pre-screened.

    PEN USA is concerned at this trend, where screened question and answer sessions with pledged supporters overshadow actual interviews by members of the press. Many reporters and journalists are like Helen Thomas, and believe this is an affront to their responsibility to report on the President’s actual standing on issues. Many journalists feel brushed aside because President Bush is shunning tough questions and real interviews for these “Ask Bush” events. PEN USA’s First Amendment Action Committee feels this sort of selective screening process has no place in the world of journalism.

    “As a journalist,” says David L. Ulin, co-chair of PEN USA’s Domestic Freedom to Write Committee, and a writer and teacher of writing at the university and graduate level, “I am extremely disheartened by the unwillingness of the President to face the kind of rigorous questioning his position requires. This is yet another example of his administration’s lack of understanding of fundamental American values like honestly, transparency, and dialogue. It violates the very spirit of Democracy.”

    ------------------------------------


    Quote:

    And you think the questions reporters ask Putin aren't?



    We got into talking about US governmental press transparancy to show that the US is guilty of the same, not to show that Russia isn't. This shouldn't be a US vs Russia battle anyway, because this all got started when I pointed out that the US trains its citizens to view Putin in a certain manner. It had nothing to do with how the countries compare, but with the Truth that Putin is not as western media and government would have you believe.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Offlinelequebecfume
    iCannibinoid
    Male User Gallery


    Registered: 07/03/07
    Posts: 126
    Loc: Québec
    Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
    Canada Post’s flag flew at North Pole before Russia’s [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7274170 - 08/08/07 12:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Canada Post’s flag flew at North Pole before Russia’s
    Katie Daubs, CanWest News Service
    Published: Tuesday, August 07, 2007

    OTTAWA -- Years before Russian explorers planted their controversial flag in the Arctic seabed last week, Ottawa's Jack MacKenzie planted some of his own.

    In 1999, MacKenzie, then 77, was the oldest person in the world to make the trek to the North Pole. And when he finished skiing from the 89th parallel, he pulled three flags from his pack -- one for Canada Post, one for the Year of the Elder, and another for Goulbourn Township, the place he called home.

    There was an understanding, backed by a letter from then-president of Canada Post Andre Ouellet, that the voyage would set up a postal outlet for Santa Claus.

    http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/44030ae1-b47b-4fb9-aad2-8e7ea6938e0a/0808northpole375.jpg?size=l
    Arctic explorer Jack MacKenzie.

    Now 86, MacKenzie considers himself on the fringes of the great Arctic debate, but he still loves adventure.

    He still holds the Guinness world record for being the oldest person to trek to the North Pole.

    MacKenzie has seen the Arctic change over time. During his last trek, through a southern route of the Northwest Passage last year, there was hardly any ice.

    During his travels, he said, it has always been the Russians who have operated the ice breakers and who have had a keen interest in the fate of the North.

    MacKenzie said Canada needs to assert itself to get its fair share. But he said no one should get too excited about "riches," since they are four kilometres underneath the ice, and largely hypothetical.

    Robert Miller, a professor at the Lewis & Clark Law School in Portland, Ore., said Russia's attempt to prove scientifically that the North Pole is part of Russian territory has been dismissed and mocked internationally, so they planted their flag to rely on the doctrine of discovery, which the Europeans used to justify their takeover of land that was empty or occupied by people they considered pagans.

    Many people, like Mackenzie, have spiked their flag into the ice, but Miller said now that mineral riches may be at stake, the claims become more serious.

    "We're in a new race for a new world," he said. "We never thought there was anything valuable at the North Pole."

    The North Pole is supposed to be an international site, but Canada, Russia, the U.S., Norway and Denmark all have Arctic Circle territories and all are competing to secure rights to the seabed.

    Ottawa Citizen

    http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=257651f4-277f-4a9d-bbf3-6cc302a1e9b5&k=1256


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleLuddite
    I watch Fox News
     User Gallery

    Registered: 03/23/06
    Posts: 2,946
    Re: Canada Post’s flag flew at North Pole before Russia’s [Re: lequebecfume]
        #7274516 - 08/08/07 01:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)



    Edited by Luddite (08/08/07 01:45 PM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7277569 - 08/09/07 10:56 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    An update on the situation:

    Russia holds strategic air drills over Arctic

    Russia's strategic aviation started Wednesday an active phase of military exercises to fly over the North Pole and conduct test launches of cruise missiles, an Air Force spokesman said.

    During the active phase, four Tu-160 Blackjack, 12 Tu-95 Bear-H strategic bombers, and 14 Tu-22 Backfire-C theater bombers will conduct simulated bombing raids, and more than ten cruise missile launches at the Pemboi range near Vorkuta [in Russia's Arctic], and fly over the North Pole, the Pacific, and Atlantic Oceans.

    "On Wednesday, Tu-160 and Tu-95 bombers conducted eight successful [test] launches of cruise missiles at designated targets in northern Russia," Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky said, adding that the planes made over 40 sorties throughout the day.

    The Russian aircraft were closely monitored by NATO fighters during the missions.

    The spokesman said six long-range aviation regiments were involved in the exercise to practice interaction with fighter aircraft, air refueling, and overcoming enemy air defenses.

    Units of the 37th Air Army of the Strategic Command will conduct a total of six tactical exercises in August as part of an annual training program, the Defense Ministry earlier said in a statement.

    According to various sources, the Russian Air Force currently deploys 141 Tu-22M3 bombers, 40 Tu-95MS bombers, and 14 Tu-160 planes.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6486

    Resource Wars. Are you ready for the future?


    --------------------
    “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    OfflineEconomist
    in training
     User Gallery


    Registered: 10/11/05
    Posts: 1,285
    Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: zorbman]
        #7277761 - 08/09/07 12:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

    Quote:

    zorbman said:
    Resource Wars. Are you ready for the future?




    Two points:

    First, Russia is most certainly not ready for "the future". Currently they can't even effectively guard their own nuclear arsenal without funding, expertise, and manpower from the US (source: http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2005_01-02/Russian_Nuclear.asp ).

    They're most likely trying to scare Europe (notably Iceland) with their excersizes in the Arctic.

    Second, in another twenty years or so Russia will have a much bigger problem protecting themselves from China than from the US.

    Finally, on the issue of "resource wars" I have a hard time believing that they're actually going to happen on a large scale. Maybe on a small scale, maybe a few skirmishes, but if there's one lesson history teaches us it's that when the payoff becomes big enough, people become really innovative really quickly.

    Think about how wars used to be fought over farland, or even horse pastures. This seems silly today because advanced farming techniques and transportation improvements made the need for these specific resources obsolete. Today, with the right genetically engineered soybeans, you can feed a population living on almost any sort of terrain.

    As oil becomes more scarce, the price will go up, and the payout for a viable alternative will become greater. Once the price becomes right, every private company in the world will be happy to spend billions upon billions of dollars trying to find an alternative. Again, we can look at history to see examples of this at work. The great "search for the Northwest Passage" was carried out by private investors as well as colonial governments until the passage was finally located in the early 20th century (by Amundsen's privately funded expedtion). There is no reason to think similar plans would not be laid to investigate alternative to oil once the price becomes high enough.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Economist]
        #7279540 - 08/09/07 10:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    You really should read the Hirsch Report and begin to educate yourself on this topic. Getting off oil will be a wrenching change to every facet of our lives. According to President Bush "America is addicted to oil."

    So where are the 12 step programs??

    Where is the sense of urgency?

    The likelyhood is we are going to keep doing what we're doing until we can't do it anymore. And by then it will be too late to avoid massive economic and societal disruptions.

    www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/the_hirsch_report.pdf

    America continues to sleep walk into the future.


    --------------------
    “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


    Edited by zorbman (08/09/07 10:09 PM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisibleelbisivni
    Registered: 10/01/06
    Posts: 2,839
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7282343 - 08/10/07 05:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    As the race to back up claims over the resources of the Arctic Ocean heats up, Canada has said it will build two new military bases in its far north.

    Prime Minister Stephen Harper made the announcement during a tour of Canada's northern territories.

    It comes as a Danish mission prepares to sail to the North Pole to map the seabed under the ice.

    Last week, a Russian expedition planted the country's flag on the floor of the Arctic Ocean under the North Pole.


    'Use it or lose it'

    Mr Harper said a cold-weather army training base would be set up at Resolute Bay and an existing port at a former mine at Nanisivik would be refurbished to supply Arctic patrol vessels.

    He said the facilities would bolster Canada's claims to disputed portions of the Arctic.

    "Canada's new government understands that the first principle of Arctic sovereignty is use it or lose it," Mr Harper said from Resolute, a small Inuit community about 600km (372 miles) south of the North Pole.

    "Today's announcements tell the world that Canada has real, growing, long-term presence in the Arctic."


    Polar missions

    Melting polar ice has led to competing claims over access to Arctic resources, including the Northwest Passage, a shipping channel between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans currently blocked by ice during the winter months.

    Mr Harper announced plans last month to build six naval vessels to patrol the passage.

    Canada, Russia, Denmark, Norway and the United States also have competing claims to the seabed below the North Pole, an area containing as much as 25% of the world's undiscovered oil and gas according to a US study.

    The area is not currently regarded as part of any single country's territory and is governed instead by complex international agreements.

    Last week a Russian expedition sent a mini-submarine to the ocean floor four kilometres (2.5 miles) below the North Pole to further Moscow's claim to the Arctic.

    Moscow argues that waters off its northern coast extending to the North Pole belong to its maritime territory because an underwater feature, the Lomonosov Ridge, is an extension of its continental territory.

    On Sunday, Denmark is sending a month-long expedition to the North Pole to study the same underwater ridge to see if it is connected to Greenland, a Danish territory.

    The Danish team plans collect data to map the seabed under the ice.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6941426.stm



    :whatever:

    Isn't it ironic how this has all been initiated by melting ice caps, which has been initiated by the burning of the same fossil fuels that they hope to find there?  I must be fucking missing something..


    --------------------
    From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: elbisivni]
        #7283167 - 08/10/07 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    Isn't it ironic how this has all been initiated by melting ice caps, which has been initiated by the burning of the same fossil fuels that they hope to find there? I must be fucking missing something..




    That is what I have been saying.

    You aren't missing anything. We are just living in the last days of a corroding civilization and only a few as yet can see the signs of the times.

    Zeitgeist

    All but a few are hopelessly asleep. Such is life.


    Edited by zorbman (08/10/07 11:25 PM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7284645 - 08/11/07 01:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



    One of two Russian deep-diving miniature submarines is lowered from the research vessel Akademik Fyodorov moments before diving into the Arctic Ocean beneath the North Pole last week. The vessels slipped beneath the ice and descended more than 2 1/2 miles to the ocean floor on a quest to claim Arctic oil and mineral wealth for Russia. The voyage had some scientific goals as well, including studies of the climate, geology and biology of the polar region. "It was so lovely down there," Artur Chilingarov, a prominent polar explorer who descended in the first mini-sub, told Russian news media after the dive. The subs spent about nine hours underwater.
    (Vladimir Chistyakov / AP Photo)


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    And Now the Danes Join the Russians in the Arctic Oil Stuggle [Re: Diploid]
        #7284661 - 08/11/07 01:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Expedition seeks proof underwater ridge is connected to their Greenland territory
    Aug 11, 2007 04:30 AM

    OSLO, Norway–Danish scientists head for the Arctic ice pack tomorrow seeking evidence to position Denmark in the race to claim the North Pole region's potentially vast oil and other resources.

    Canada has been making its own moves to strengthen its territorial claims in the Arctic, with Prime Minister Stephen Harper announcing northern initiatives on a three-day swing through the region that ended yesterday.

    The month-long Danish expedition will seek evidence that the Lomonosov Ridge, a 2,000-kilometre underwater mountain range, is attached to the Danish territory of Greenland, making it a geological extension of the Arctic island.

    That might allow the Nordic country to stake a claim, under a United Nations treaty, that could stretch all the way to the North Pole, although Canada and Russia also claim the ridge.

    "The preliminary investigations done so far are very promising," Helge Sander, Denmark's Minister of Science, Technology and Innovation, told Denmark's TV2 on Thursday.

    "There are things suggesting that Denmark could be given the North Pole."

    The Danes plan to set off from Norway's remote Arctic islands of Svalbard aboard the Swedish icebreaker Oden, which will be assisted by a powerful Russian nuclear icebreaker to plow through ice as thick as five metres, north of Greenland.

    "No one has ever sailed in that area. Ships have sailed on the edges of the ice but no one has been in there," said expedition leader Christian Marcussen of the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland in Copenhagen. "The challenge for us will be the ice."

    The team includes 40 scientists, 10 of them Danish, and the crews of the icebreakers, which will use sophisticated equipment, including sonar, to map the seabed.

    "We will be collecting data for a possible (sovereignty) demand," Marcussen said. "It is not our duty to formulate a demand of ownership."

    A team of Swedish researchers studying glacial history in the Arctic is also part of the expedition.

    Canada, the United States, Russia and Norway have competing claims in the vast Arctic region, where a U.S. study suggests as much as 25 per cent of the world's undiscovered oil and gas could be hidden.

    Russia sent two small submarines to plant a tiny national flag under the North Pole two weeks ago, a move Canada ridiculed.

    "The Russians sent a submarine to drop a small flag at the bottom of the ocean. We're sending our prime minister to reassert Canadian sovereignty," said one senior government official earlier this week as Harper was set to begin his northern swing.

    The race for sovereignty in the Arctic is heating up partly because global warming is shrinking the polar ice, which could one day open up resource development and new shipping lanes.

    The pressure is also on the Arctic nations because of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which gives them 10 years after ratification to prove their claims under the largely uncharted polar ice pack. All but the United States have ratified the treaty.

    "The Russians, Canadians and Danes all have overlapping claims in the polar region. It is unclear how this can be resolved," said maritime law expert Oystein Jensen, of Oslo's Fridtjof Nansen Institute. "There is a lot of prestige and vast resources at stake."

    thestar.com


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Offlinelequebecfume
    iCannibinoid
    Male User Gallery


    Registered: 07/03/07
    Posts: 126
    Loc: Québec
    Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
    Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7290990 - 08/13/07 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy

    Deep-sea deceit: Russia's flag-raising efforts have taken a hit.

    Photo: AFP


    By Tom Parfitt, Moscow
    August 12, 2007

    UNEARTHLY blue lights played across the ocean floor four kilometres below the North Pole as the heroic Russian explorers descended in mini-submarines to plant a metre-high flag.

    That's what the Russian state television company, Rossiya, wanted us to believe. The truth was rather different.

    In an apparent attempt to "sex up" a news program, the TV station has been caught passing off footage from the 1997 Hollywood blockbuster Titanic as a real-life report on the Kremlin's recent attempt to stake its claim to the riches of the Arctic Ocean.

    Rossiya's images were distributed around the world, appearing on television news, websites and as "screen grabs" in newspapers.

    It took an alert teenager in Finland with a Titanic DVD to spot the sham. Waltteri Seretin, 13, recognised the images in the national daily, Ilta-Sanomat.

    "I was looking at the photo of the Russian sub expedition and I noticed immediately that there was something familiar about the picture," he told the paper.

    "I checked it with my DVD and there it was, right there in the beginning of the movie; exactly the same image of the submersibles approaching the ship."

    James Cameron's film about the 1912 disaster opens with a scene of mini-subs diving to inspect the wreck of the Titanic. In the Russian report, expedition images from the movie were inserted into real footage and bore an on-screen caption reading "northern Arctic Ocean".

    As the Titanic images were shown, a correspondent said: "When the mini-submarine got to 300 metres, the unloading of the second sub began."

    In fact, a Finnish company made the mini-subs the Russians used and Cameron used them in his film. But it is thought the scene from the movie shown on Russian TV was originally filmed using models in a studio.

    Rossiya is one of two state-controlled channels that have been turned into propaganda tools under President Vladimir Putin and it is the second time in two weeks that the Vesti news program has faked a broadcast.

    Ten days ago, it mocked up a copy of The Times newspaper to make it appear as though the paper had run a critical article about London-based businessman Boris Berezovsky on its front page. The article actually appeared in the comment section.

    Rossiya refused to comment on the polar footage, but the boy who identified it gave a damning indictment of the show. "I have heard that they don't always tell the truth in Russia but I didn't think they could have screwed it up that badly," he said.

    Moscow trumpeted the polar expedition as a PR coup in its effort to prove the Arctic is Russian, and veteran explorer Artur Chilingarov and his team returned to a heroes' welcome.

    The TV fiasco adds fresh controversy to the expedition, which caused resentment among northern hemisphere nations seeking their share of the Arctic's energy riches - at least 10 billion tonnes of hydrocarbons.

    Alexei Simonov, of the Glasnost Defence Foundation, said the channel had attempted to dupe viewers. "This is a sign of the sheer unprofessionalism that reigns when television is turned into a pawn of the authorities," he said.

    GUARDIAN


    http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/finnish-teen-sinks-russian-tvs-titanic-polar-ploy/2007/08/11/1186530667954.html

    still up to their old russian tricks......


    LEQ


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: lequebecfume]
        #7291121 - 08/13/07 02:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    :rofl2:


    --------------------
    “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: lequebecfume]
        #7293721 - 08/14/07 11:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Rossiya is one of two state-controlled channels that have been turned into propaganda tools under President Vladimir Putin and it is the second time in two weeks that the Vesti news program has faked a broadcast.

    Likely Russians will never know they were lied to about this expedition by Russian media under Putin. No wonder his approval ratings are 70%. :shake:


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleArp
    roving mycophagist
     User Gallery

    Registered: 04/20/98
    Posts: 2,191
    Loc: in a van by the river
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7293752 - 08/14/07 11:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    eeh they have internet too :smile:


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Arp]
        #7293888 - 08/14/07 12:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    It's filtered, just like in China.


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleArp
    roving mycophagist
     User Gallery

    Registered: 04/20/98
    Posts: 2,191
    Loc: in a van by the river
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7293942 - 08/14/07 01:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    source?


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Arp]
        #7294018 - 08/14/07 01:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    About 40 posts back. Haven't you been reading?? :rolleyes:


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleArp
    roving mycophagist
     User Gallery

    Registered: 04/20/98
    Posts: 2,191
    Loc: in a van by the river
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7294054 - 08/14/07 01:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    not sure :smile: but when my mate was in russia (some months ago) he didn't have any problems viewing foreign news sites


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleNemo_Hoes
    Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobo Ramírez
     User Gallery


    Registered: 09/16/04
    Posts: 39,720
    Loc: Ray Ray's Mystery Garage
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Diploid]
        #7294179 - 08/14/07 02:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    I will join the army if we go up against russia, they standno chance.


    --------------------
    We will also report to the NAACP and to Al Sharpton's entourage, how the Shroomery administrators allows their mods and members to be balatantly allowed the use of the 'N' word.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Offlinevintage_gonzo
    Stranger

    Registered: 04/08/06
    Posts: 457
    Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
    Re: Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil [Re: Nemo_Hoes]
        #7295543 - 08/14/07 09:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    neither would we, its MAD.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7296258 - 08/15/07 12:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    Diploid said:
    Rossiya is one of two state-controlled channels that have been turned into propaganda tools under President Vladimir Putin and it is the second time in two weeks that the Vesti news program has faked a broadcast.

    Likely Russians will never know they were lied to about this expedition by Russian media under Putin. No wonder his approval ratings are 70%. :shake:




    How were Russians lied to? I looked over the article 3 times trying to find one damning item. The news station threw in submarine footage from the movie titanic... anything else? That's no different than a dramatization, and not nearly as bad as much of what is on Fox News.
    Your approval rating comment... source? Actually, his rating is high because of how he's improved Russia, not because Titanic footage was displayed in their news.



    "Rossiya refused to comment on the polar footage, but the boy who identified it gave a damning indictment of the show. "I have heard that they don't always tell the truth in Russia but I didn't think they could have screwed it up that badly," he said."

    Exactly what did they not tell the truth about, and what did they screw up? It sounds as if he's suggesting the expedition did not take place. This, and the article's false but suggestive title "Deep-sea deceit: Russia's flag-raising efforts have taken a hit" read like intended propaganda.


    Edited by Disco Cat (08/15/07 02:45 AM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7296314 - 08/15/07 01:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    I think you and Diploid should have a fight to the finish.

    On the bottom of the Arctic.

    Pay per view. I'm there.  :ashamed:


    --------------------
    “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7296317 - 08/15/07 01:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    Arp said:
    eeh they have internet too :smile:



    Quote:

    Diploid said:
    It's filtered, just like in China.



    Quote:

    Arp said:
    source?



    Quote:

    Diploid said:
    About 40 posts back. Haven't you been reading?? :rolleyes:





    I don't remember anyone talking about Russia filtering the internet.

    And for the record, they don't.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7296336 - 08/15/07 01:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    Diploid said:
    No wonder his approval ratings are 70%.




    It's actually above 80%.


    From wiki
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    In Russia, there exist both, supporters and critics of Putin.

    While many reforms made in modern Russia under Putin’s rule were generally criticized by Western media and some American politicians as antidemocratic [82], a joint poll by World Public Opinion in the U. S. and the Levada Center in Russia around June-July 2006 stated that "neither the Russian nor the American publics are convinced Russia is headed in an anti-democratic direction" and "Russians generally support Putin’s concentration of political power and strongly support the re-nationalization of Russia’s oil and gas industry" [83] Russians generally support reforms initiated by Putin's team.[84]

    According to public opinion surveys conducted by Levada Center, Putin's approval rating is 81% as of June 2007, and the highest of any leader in the world. [85] It started at 31% in August 1999, rose to 80% by November 1999 and never fell below 65% since then.[86]

    ---------------------------------------------------------


    Edited by Disco Cat (08/15/07 01:23 AM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7296362 - 08/15/07 01:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Are you related to Putin or something?


    --------------------
    “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: zorbman]
        #7296384 - 08/15/07 01:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Is it wrong to present relevant-to-discussion truth in a political forum? If I don't speak it Diploid will continue to hold on to certain trained fallacies, and he'll be convincing others of the same - just as when he told Arp that Russia filters the internet. Is that preferrable to you?


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblezorbman
    blarrr
    Male


    Registered: 06/04/04
    Posts: 5,952
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7296389 - 08/15/07 01:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    I haven't accused you of being off-topic or anything. I'm just curious why you have chosen to defend Putin in such a determined way.

    Of all the topics you could comment upon what is it about this particular subject that draws your ire?


    --------------------
    “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


    Edited by zorbman (08/15/07 01:46 AM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDisco Cat
    iS A PoiNdexteR

    Registered: 09/15/00
    Posts: 2,601
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: zorbman]
        #7296412 - 08/15/07 01:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    It's just the right thing to do for any number of reasons, ranging from "if I didn't, people would otherwise be led to believe what isn't true," to seeing how awfully conditioned the US is, and to what degree US arrogance has resulted in ignorance and recognizing how important it is that something is done about it.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisiblejohnm214
    Male User Gallery

    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 05/31/07
    Posts: 17,582
    Loc: Americas
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: zorbman]
        #7296423 - 08/15/07 02:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    RE: The Internet and Russia

    It seems there's no proof per se that russia interferes in the web, but there is some speculation, and Russia is investigating whether to take up the practice:

    Quote:

    Speaking at a conference on "Information Security in Russia in a Global Information Society" on 26 January, Seslavinskii's deputy, Andrei Romanchenko, called for the introduction of content filters on certain segments of the Internet. Romanchenko said that a government policy on filtering would provide society and individual citizens a "defense against harmful and illegal content." He added that content filters are a programming capability for maintaining the "personal hygiene" of the Internet.


    SEE http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/02/e3546d2b-71b3-40ac-8d6e-e69d0a35622e.html

    speculative government interference:
    Quote:

    "A huge information war awaits Russia before the elections," said Oleg Panfilov of the Center for Journalism in Extreme Situations.

    The groups claim the attackers use vast, online networks of computers infected with malicious software — whose owners probably aren't aware they are involved — to paralyze or erase targeted Web sites.

    Stanislav Belkovsky, a political analyst believed to have close ties to Kremlin insiders, said a senior associate of President Vladimir Putin is leading the cyber-assault.

    The government denies it and insists it has nothing to do with the onslaught. The Kremlin said hackers could easily forge Internet Protocol addresses registered to government offices.


    Source via Fox News

    and some websites seem afraid the government will crack down, though this doesn't necessarily mean the fears are well-founded
    Quote:

    ast month, the management of a poetry website based in Russia (http://www.stihi.ru) instructed authors to observe certain political censorship requirements, REN-TV reported on 26 January. Authors were forbidden to write about the war in Chechnya or the ongoing protests over the reform of social benefits. They were admonished not to criticize President Vladimir Putin, the government, members of the pro-Kremlin Unified Russia party, or the pro-Putin youth movement Moving Together...
    Stihi.ru project manager Dmitrii Kravchuk told REN-TV that "since the [subjects are] rather sensitive, it is easier to limit publications of such works than to try and guess what the president may or may not like."


    See: first link

    For what its worth, I enjoy the discussion on russia, and if I stop enjoying it, I won't click on this thread anymore...


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Disco Cat]
        #7297379 - 08/15/07 12:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    How were Russians lied to?

    Uh, the government-controlled Rossiya television company plagiarized film of the non-Russian expedition to the Titanic and showed it to Russians, telling them in voice and captions that it was filmed by the Russian government's recent expedition to the North Pole.

    Why do I have to spell this out for you? Aren't you reading this thread? :rolleyes:


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleArp
    roving mycophagist
     User Gallery

    Registered: 04/20/98
    Posts: 2,191
    Loc: in a van by the river
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7297434 - 08/15/07 12:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    pretty harmless in comparison to the 2000 presidential election where private media elected bush :biggrin:


    Edited by Arp (08/16/07 05:52 AM)


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Invisibleelbisivni
    Registered: 10/01/06
    Posts: 2,839
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Arp]
        #7297558 - 08/15/07 01:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Canada's flag made it to North Pole 33 years before Russia's, diver says
    http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=f32e56fb-4edd-4c70-883b-dc970160c374

    About this 'Titanic' footage.. Can anyone confirm it?  If you've seen the images or have a link to another article please share.  If it turned out to be true it would be quite amusing.  The Russians making clever use of Photoshop, After Effects and Premier in attempts to effect the outcomes of world events :lol: But keep in mind this is the same submersible used in the film, which is why I question the validity of the claim.

    Either way, this flag business is meaningless anyway..


    --------------------
    From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleDiploidM
    Cuban


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 01/09/03
    Posts: 19,274
    Loc: Rabbit Hole
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: elbisivni]
        #7297711 - 08/15/07 01:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    About this 'Titanic' footage.. Can anyone confirm it?

    Looks like a Reuter's error was also involved:

    --

    Reuters gets that sinking feeling

    Leigh Holmwood
    Friday August 10, 2007
    MediaGuardian.co.uk

    News agency Reuters has been forced to admit that footage it released last week purportedly showing Russian submersibles on the seabed of the North Pole actually came from the movie Titanic.

    The images were reproduced around the world - including by the Guardian and Guardian Unlimited - alongside the story of Russia planting its flag below the North Pole on Thursday last week.

    But it has now emerged that the footage actually showed two Finnish-made Mir submersibles that were employed on location filming at the scene of the wreck of the RMS Titanic ship in the north Atlantic some 10 years ago.

    This footage was used in sequences in James Cameron's 1997 blockbuster about the 1912 disaster.

    The mistake was only revealed after a 13-year-old Finnish schoolboy contacted a local newspaper to tell them the images looked identical to those used in the movie.

    Reuters has admitted that it took the images from Russian state television channel RTR and wrongly captioned them as file footage originating from the Arctic.

    RTR had also used the footage to illustrate stories about the North Pole expedition, but it is thought as library footage, and it never claimed it was actually of the flag-planting.

    The pictures were first broadcast by RTR when the Russians were still several hours away from the North Pole.

    Reuters distributed a package of clips that included the scenes from Titanic, alongside computer animations and footage of ships on the surface at the North Pole.

    In its piece on the subject, two of the four Reuters pictures were from the Titanic filming.

    Reuters has now apologised for the error and has made changes to its video material on the expedition, with captions denoting the various origins of the file footage used.

    In a statement, Reuters said: "On August 2, 2007 in a TV story about two Russian submersibles planting a flag on the seabed under the North Pole, we used file shots of MIR submersibles as part of this story.

    "Reuters mistakenly identified this file footage as originating from the Arctic, and not the North Atlantic where the footage was shot.

    "This footage was taken during the search for the Titanic and copyright is held by Russian State broadcaster RTR.

    "This location error was corrected as soon as it was brought to our attention. A still image of the submersibles was also taken from the footage and put out on the Reuters photo wire. The caption has been corrected."

    The incident is doubly embarrassing for the agency since it follows a case in August last year in which it published an image by a freelancer of Israeli bombings in Lebanon that had been dramatised using photo manipulation, with the addition of smoke rising from allegedly burning buildings.

    After that gaffe, Reuters promised to tighten up its controls on material being put out in its name.


    --------------------
    Republican Values:

    1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
    2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
    3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

    4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    InvisibleArp
    roving mycophagist
     User Gallery

    Registered: 04/20/98
    Posts: 2,191
    Loc: in a van by the river
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Diploid]
        #7297750 - 08/15/07 02:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    Of course. Doesn't sound likely that a government would use clips from a box-office movie to fool its citizens.
    They probably have enough resources to make their own. Like the fake moon-landing :smile: jk


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    OfflineSeussA
    Error: divide byzero


    Folding@home Statistics
    Registered: 04/27/01
    Posts: 23,480
    Loc: Caribbean
    Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
    Re: Finnish teen sinks Russian TV's titanic polar ploy [Re: Arp]
        #7297846 - 08/15/07 03:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

    > Like the fake moon-landing :smile: jk

    And Ike said, "Hey look.  Give us your technology, and we'll give you all the cow lips you want." -Sneakers

    So does anybody know if they really were able to plant a flag down there, or did the mission fail?


    --------------------
    Just another spore in the wind.


    Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
    Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

    Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Amazon Scales

    General Interest >> Political Discussion

    Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
    * U.S. intel: Russia compromised seven states prior to 2016 election
    ( 1 2 3 all )
    musiclover420 866 42 03/03/18 09:18 PM
    by ballsalsa
    * Administration Misleads on Alaska Drilling Claims starptv23 920 12 04/26/05 07:51 PM
    by Annapurna1
    * US officials think that Russia is guilty pattern 2,091 16 03/26/03 10:58 AM
    by Murex
    * CIA predicts break-up of Russia within 10 years ivi 3,326 5 06/12/14 03:41 AM
    by Ellis Dee
    * Russia delays start-up of Iran nuclear power plant by one ye wingnutx 626 1 10/13/03 07:08 PM
    by lysergic
    * Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia
    ( 1 2 all )
    Phred 2,147 25 09/05/04 03:43 AM
    by Xlea321
    * turn your bullshit detectors on - Putin: Russia warned US Vvellum 393 0 06/18/04 11:30 AM
    by Vvellum
    * Libertarians, Land Ownership and Sucession... retread 701 6 09/29/04 08:52 PM
    by retread

    Extra information
    You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
    HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
    Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
    6,861 topic views. 3 members, 2 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
    [ Print Topic ]
    Search this thread:
    Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
    Please support our sponsors.

    Copyright 1997-2020 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

    Generated in 0.197 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 16 queries.