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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Why are paranormal believers always wrong?
    #7251419 - 08/02/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Wnen it comes to claims THAT CAN BE TESTED, they have a track record of zero in hundreds of thousands of claims.

When is enough, enough?

Why the continued need for a new fantasy when every single previous fantasy has fallen flat?

Are humans prewired for magic or just day-dreaming morons?


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7251493 - 08/02/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

We all have experiences as children being frightened by irrational fears and believing in the impossible... I think that as much as I try to bury that part of me it is still there, ready to surface the instant things get out of my control.

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7252214 - 08/02/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Why the continued need for a new fantasy when every single previous fantasy has fallen flat?

Humans can suspend disbelief, they can imagine stuff that isn't, it is a very useful ability. Sometimes it don't work right, sometimes it gets turned on when it shouldn't.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7253333 - 08/02/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It is all a matter of interpretation, which is forced thru the strainer of each individual's subjective perception of experience.....
Your post could be interpreted as being profound for some, as a form of bragging, or even being smugaliscious....
Or like someone volunteering of his own free will to do something, then frustratingly complaining about it the whole time....  :smirk:  :tongue2:

If life is in fact a grand illusion, then are we really just fooling ourselves, is the foundation of existence ultimately flawed,
or are the illusions "purposely" part of the experience - thus making the illusion of existence's illusions perfect AND grand in it's totality....?
Does my score card ultimately have an effect on your interpretation of life's subjective perception of experience/existence....?


***I can only speak for myself, and I do not vouch for any of the unbelievable paranormal crap that any other believes....!  :tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7253368 - 08/02/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

why the continuous need to prove what is right or wrong?


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: onlynow]
    #7253506 - 08/02/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So we always know who the day-dreaming morons are. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineJoseLibrado
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7253672 - 08/02/07 10:59 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Wnen it comes to claims THAT CAN BE TESTED, they have a track record of zero in hundreds of thousands of claims."

You assume that they can be tested perfectly, but to test something within perfection, one must completly understand the mechanics of how it works.
ie/ Writing a test to see if people are smart. In order to see generally who is smarter, you have to understand completly the what makes someone smart. Isnt this beyond the capacity of a human...wouldn't you have to be beyond smart to look back and see exactly what it is to be it, then write a test for it.

A test is a conclusion, it assumes truth within its mechanics to devise a way to judge something within universal parameters. It is the answere for the question - is this true, yes or no.


I was reading an interesting book that talked about how molecules have been discovered to act differently when being directly experienced by a human. They seemed to move in wave patterns when no one was watching and when someone did, they turned back into the cloud of molecules that we see. The knew this because they viewed them through camera at first.

Anyways, i would like to hear how they tested paranormal stuff. hehe, it be cool.

within respect and acceptance.
Jlm


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7253697 - 08/02/07 11:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

whats wrong with dreaming if you know that you are dreaming?

nothing is right, nothing is wrong, all is a dream except for now


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7253978 - 08/03/07 12:21 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I was reading an interesting book that talked about how molecules have been discovered to act differently when being directly experienced by a human. They seemed to move in wave patterns when no one was watching and when someone did, they turned back into the cloud of molecules that we see. The knew this because they viewed them through camera at first.





*sigh* There is so much ignorance to constantly wade through.

A non-intrusive measurement or 'watching' changes nothing at the molecular level. Naturally, you will be unable to find a valid reference for this.


--------------------

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: onlynow]
    #7253987 - 08/03/07 12:24 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

onlynow said:
why the continuous need to prove what is right or wrong?




Philosophy is a quest for the truth - at least as much as is possible to discover. Believing in unsubstantaited nonsense is as far from philosophy as one could get - hence the creation of the Mystical forum. It is for those stuck in fantasy.


--------------------

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7254017 - 08/03/07 12:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I bet you'll find jesus in your death bed, buahaha!

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7254093 - 08/03/07 01:17 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

onlynow said:
why the continuous need to prove what is right or wrong?




Philosophy is a quest for the truth - at least as much as is possible to discover. Believing in unsubstantaited nonsense is as far from philosophy as one could get - hence the creation of the Mystical forum. It is for those stuck in fantasy.




why believe in anything?

im all for mystical experiences, although i try not to interpret them so much... that's why im rarely in the mystical forum.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7254197 - 08/03/07 01:59 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
I was reading an interesting book that talked about how molecules have been discovered to act differently when being directly experienced by a human. They seemed to move in wave patterns when no one was watching and when someone did, they turned back into the cloud of molecules that we see. The knew this because they viewed them through camera at first.



That would be because the human was a skeptic who sent out S-rays that disturbed the wavefront of the molecules. :smile:

Seriously, was that perhaps DeBroglie waves? They have been known to exist since 1927. And they have nothing to do with direct experience: the crucial factor is whether or not the waves have a chance to interfere with each other before or after the molecules are observed. It doesn't matter whether the observation is made directly by the eye or through an instrument.

Quote:

Anyways, i would like to hear how they tested paranormal stuff. hehe, it be cool.



They just set up an experiment where ordinary known non-paranormal mechanisms of action are excluded. No assumptions about the paranormal mechanism are necessary. Here is an overview of some famous experiments: http://www.reason.com/news/show/34782.html

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7254539 - 08/03/07 07:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

> Wnen it comes to claims THAT CAN BE TESTED, they have a track record of zero in hundreds of thousands of claims.

Two theories... either the claims are fake (even though the person making the claim may believe the claim to be true) or the effect is so intermittent that it is difficult to reproduce/measure.

> When is enough, enough?

Obviously, never.  :grin:

> Why the continued need for a new fantasy when every single previous fantasy has fallen flat?

Many reasons.... some of:

1) people want to feel special
2) science is hard for many to understand
3) con artists prey on 1 & 2 selling books, etc, reinforcing the fantasies
4) statistics is hard for many to understand
5) we are raised with the idea of the unprovable being real (religion, etc)
... etc ...

> Are humans prewired for magic or just day-dreaming morons?

A bit of both... I wouldn't consider day-dreaming to be moronic.  Without day dreaming we would have no way to better ourselves.  We are wired to want to understand things.  This is where both religion and science come from.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineKinematics
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: Seuss]
    #7254663 - 08/03/07 08:31 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

What are you referencing in this thread?

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Offlinesadspacemonkey
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7254732 - 08/03/07 09:01 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Wnen it comes to claims THAT CAN BE TESTED, they have a track record of zero in hundreds of thousands of claims.

When is enough, enough?

Why the continued need for a new fantasy when every single previous fantasy has fallen flat?

Are humans prewired for magic or just day-dreaming morons?




If someone wants to believe something badly enough it's easy to magnify anything that supports the claim while ignoring everything that refutes it. (Or you can just argue against it using faulty rationalization.)

I kind of see it as a socially acceptable coping mechanism. Why give it up if it's easy, fun, and feels good? I was interested in witchcraft years when I was in middle school and I have to say books on that subject were definitely more entertaining to read than those on science, history, or politics- at least at the time.

And why strive for more? Is the quest for truth valued at all in this society?

I held onto MANY delusions for a very long time- I tried to educate myself but I understood all information within the context of what I already believed.

Once my mind started to open beyond my comfort zone, my reaction was pretty much:

this is SCARY
this HURTS
this changes EVERYTHING
i can't go BACK now

Some truths are just uncomfortable. Constantly challenging and questioning yourself is hard. Magic and religion are softer in comparison. Maybe it's just what certain people choose to handle. (I personally never had much of a choice since my delusions just made me miserable- so if anything, seeing a hard truth eventually improves my life...but for others, if it aint broke, don't fix it?)


--------------------

"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana

Edited by sadspacemonkey (08/03/07 09:07 AM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: sadspacemonkey]
    #7254736 - 08/03/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Great answer!  :smile:

I came to similar conclusions about my lifelong addiction to daydreaming and fantasy--it was hurting far more than it was helping.  But volunteering for disillusionment is extremely challenging, and does not have the allure and glamour of magical thinking.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: sadspacemonkey]
    #7254748 - 08/03/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Good post. I agree that pushing isn't for everyone. I cannot say that all my striving after "truth" has made for a great life. I don't have anything to compare it to though.

I also really felt that I had no choice. Or better said, I didn't know I had a choice.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinesadspacemonkey
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: Veritas]
    #7254757 - 08/03/07 09:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Great answer!  :smile:

I came to similar conclusions about my lifelong addiction to daydreaming and fantasy--it was hurting far more than it was helping.  But volunteering for disillusionment is extremely challenging, and does not have the allure and glamour of magical thinking.




Addiction to daydreaming and fantasy? That's exactly where I was for years! My inner life was fun and made perfect sense while "reality" was ugly, terrible, twisted- I could feel NO joy from anything out there...

Disillusionment is definitely hard. Sometimes I wonder if I bit off more than I can chew...I know now new doors have opened that can lead to a better life and mindset but I'm going to have to WORK and continue to push myself out of comfort zones etc- but there's no way to go back now to the combo of intense depression/brilliant fantasy life, even if I wanted to.


--------------------

"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why are paranormal believers always wrong? [Re: sadspacemonkey]
    #7254786 - 08/03/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I'm going to have to WORK and continue to push myself out of comfort zones




Sometimes relaxing into what is can be more effective than working and pushing.  There is so much beauty and wonder in the natural world, and so many interesting things to explore and learn about, that mere fantasies pale by comparison.  What is key for me is getting my preconceptions out of the way, and seeing and feeling as openly as I can.  Then the real magic begins.  :heart:

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