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OfflineYthanA
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My mom's afraid of the microwave
    #7232874 - 07/28/07 04:53 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well not really 'afraid', more like 'mistrustful'. If she has time she'll avoid it if possible. I learned this when I asked why she was making oatmeal on the stove. Her rationale is that she doesn't really know how it works, and better safe than sorry. At the time I made a condescending remark about how she's "too smart" to buy into such fears but I wonder, is that just my own blind faith in technology? 50 years ago I probably would have given her a hard time for being wary of thalidomide too. What do you guys make of information like this? I think it's thought-provoking but not enough to make me change my behavior. I'll worry about the thousands of cigarettes I've smoked during my life before I worry about microwaves damaging my food.

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OfflineWysefool
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7232884 - 07/28/07 05:20 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I just worry about how much it decreases the health value of food, especially considering how the food most people microwave is already shit. I also think I should stop watching the food in the microwave go in circles before I end up with brain cancer.


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Invisiblemaggotz


Registered: 06/24/06
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7232912 - 07/28/07 06:14 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I'll worry about the thousands of cigarettes I've smoked during my life before I worry about microwaves damaging my food.




:werd:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7233269 - 07/28/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

From the link:

All this agitation creates molecular "friction", which heats up the food. This unusual type of heating also causes substantial damage to the surrounding molecules, often tearing them apart or forcefully deforming them.

If this happens, it's because of localized heat, not because of the microwaves directly and so it can happen on a stove too. But it's a good reason not to heat baby formula in a microwave; you don't want a partial volume of boiled formula in the bottle for the same reason you would never boil baby formula on a stove, only heat it.

But that said, the articles seems a little hysterical in that they use the fact that blood for transfusion shouldn't be heated in a microwave as a reason for not using them to heat food.

Well, of course the uneven heating will coagulate the overheated areas of the blood, but if you intended to eat the blood, you might heat it to coagulation on a stove deliberately. It happens because of uneven heating, not because of microwaves and that may be bad for taste, but not for health.

Besides, anything fried in a pan is generally going to get hotter than anything in a microwave; if you're going to fear microwaves, you should probably fear pan frying too.

Also, I found this regarding the 'studies' cited in your article:

In the literature that claims that microwaved food is depleted in nutrients and/or is full of carcinogenic chemicals, two studies are continually quoted. The first is from the December 9, 1989 issue of Lancet, while the second is that of Hertel and Blanc in Switzerland.

The Lancet study, Aminoacid Isomerisation and Microwave Exposure, is not a formal peer-reviewed article, but is just a short letter to the editor. The authors microwaved milk, and found that one of the proteins changed shape from L-proline to D-proline. This was a worry because D-proline, in large concentrations, is toxic to the kidney and liver. This letter was followed-up by health authorities around the world. The overall finding was that this was not relevant to home heating of milk, because the scientists had exposed the milk to much greater levels of microwaves than are used in the home.

The second study looked at levels of various chemicals and cells in the blood of volunteers who ate microwaved food. The study was published in a certain Franz Weber's magazine, modestly called Journal Franz Weber (Issue 19, January-March 1992), which is definitely not a peer-reviewed journal. If it had been, it might have noticed that there were only eight volunteers - which is such a small number, that it's impossible to get any statistically significant results. Furthermore, none of the blood analysis results fell out of the normal range of variation. Indeed, the volunteers, who all ate macrobiotic food, came to the study with a low-grade anaemia. Regardless of this, the study came to the conclusion that "...microwave ovens are more harmful than the Dachau gas chambers..." and "...it is certain that you will die from cancer...".


Those two unwarranted conclusions alone are a red flag as to the validity of the study.

There's more here: http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1597903.htm

There are so many millions of these things in daily use around the world that if there were any real danger, we'd have epidemiological evidence by now. I agree with you that there are WAY more likely sources of harm in most of our daily lives (cigs, high fructose corn syrup, hormones in our food, and so on) and worrying about microwave ovens should probably be very low on the list.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinezoidberg215
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: maggotz]
    #7233270 - 07/28/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'll skip the irradiated food as well. There is a reason they call it "nuking"

But truly with all the other environmental toxins we face on a daily basis, microwaves are probably not really high on the list of dangers... how about cell phones?

:wink:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: zoidberg215]
    #7233276 - 07/28/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Lots of studies have now shown that cell phones don't appear to cause any health problems. And again, when anything has as widespread use as cell phones (or microwave ovens), the law of averages would have exposed some hint of a problem in the worldwide epidemiological data by now.

Here's one of the most conclusive studies done so far where 420,000 cell phone users were tracked for 21 years. No harm was detected:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6338125#Post6338125


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineRuNE
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7233324 - 07/28/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

My mother is a health freak, and she shares those views on microwave ovens. 


I often ask her what she thinks about the traces of aluminum found in stove cooked foods.  Mind you, these traces are so small, they pale in comparison to something found in say, a buffered aspirin pill....

With all that being said, actualy 'cooking' in a microwave sucks ass.  Most people here can't even cook a proper meal on a stove. :lol:
Anyway, I'd also be more conerned about those smokes in the end.


--------------------
~Happy sailing~

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Offlinezoidberg215
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Diploid]
    #7233608 - 07/28/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

the brain- dead zombies walking around in a stupor with a cell phone attatched to their head. They are every where.

It is kind of naive to think that studies that are put into the public eye about cell phone use are accurate. But i won't start getting into censorship. Before you believe anything about cell phones being safe do a little research on cell phone towers and HAARP or ELF. There is some surprising stuff that most media doesn't really want you to know.

Don't get me wrong, i use a cell too. But i am waiting for the day that my brain gets melted :smile:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: zoidberg215]
    #7233674 - 07/28/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It is kind of naive to think that studies that are put into the public eye

You seem to think that all these studies are done by the telecommunications industry or the evil government. The truth is that many (most?) are done by private institutions and universities by scientists who deliberately went into academia at a pay cut in order to avoid government influence on or censorship of their work.

What's naive is to think that all these people are in bed with the special interests.

Before you believe anything about cell phones being safe do a little research on cell phone towers

People are always telling me to do a little research. Well, I've been there, done that. Have you? No, I didn't think so.

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7234055 - 07/28/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

A lot of chemistry is done via microwaves (yes, basically standard everyday ones).. some interesting transformations are possible in both wet and dry (solvent and solventless) media at the temperatures and times we normally cook food.

Meh, I still do it.


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:scrambled:

1 ,2

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Offlinezoidberg215
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Diploid]
    #7234133 - 07/28/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

didn't intend for you to get your panties in a bunch. i won't take THAT discussion any further.

bye

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InvisibleRobo
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7235478 - 07/29/07 01:09 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

An old science teacher of mine once told me that those that stand and wait in front of a microwave while it prepares food are at risk of developing skin problems, rapid aging, and various other health complications. I always wondered if she was just trying to scare people, but I am still to this day very wary of the microwave, and don't stand in front of it or too near it while its on.

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Offlineo9o
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7235498 - 07/29/07 01:31 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Your at least 70% water. When you microwave water it loosens the molecular structure and becomes mutated. So when you eat or drink things that have been microwaved you are putting mutated water molecules in you body. Which can make you lethargic and more prone to diseases and cancer.

Microwave bad. Fire good. :dwarf:

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Offlinedelta9
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Ythan]
    #7235613 - 07/29/07 03:11 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I will put it like this.

Magnetrons produce a certain type of energy, known as microwaves. We know that when we cook and especially burn things, a chemical reaction may be taking place. The same is true with microwaves. In fact, there is a such thing as microwave chemistry. It is known that one possible effect of microwaves is to denature proteins.

Come to your own conclusions.

(I much prefer the toaster oven for small things - it really doesn't take THAT much longer and it is way better tasting than the microwave, at least)


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delta9

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Offlinedelta9
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Diploid]
    #7235618 - 07/29/07 03:17 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
And again, when anything has as widespread use as cell phones (or microwave ovens), the law of averages would have exposed some hint of a problem in the worldwide epidemiological data by now.



I offer an interesting caveat for those "due to the law of averages we would have noticed some shit by now" folks. We are complicated biomachinery affected by many things on the macro and micro scales. Just because we haven't noticed anything going on in our short spans in a mostly macro view, does not mean nothing is going on in the longer term and more micro view of our reality.

This is not to say that cell phone towers, microwaves, or even LSD are causing all sorts of bad effects and we should all simply stop using them. It is simply saying that everything effects us, at least a little, whether we want to admit it or not.


--------------------
delta9

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InvisiblePinback
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: delta9]
    #7235663 - 07/29/07 03:56 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The best evidence today shows that there is no non-thermal effect in microwave chemistry (in normal uses), that is, it's all heating.

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: o9o]
    #7235761 - 07/29/07 06:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

o9o said:
When you microwave water it loosens the molecular structure and becomes mutated.




Interesting. You don't happen to have a link to a peer reviewed study abut this phenomenon?

What people often forget: Cooking(=exposing food to heat, whatever the source) chemically changes the food. That's why we are cooking it, the chemical change is a desired effect.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: Robo]
    #7235803 - 07/29/07 07:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mo0nlite_sonata said:
An old science teacher of mine once told me that those that stand and wait in front of a microwave while it prepares food are at risk of developing skin problems, rapid aging, and various other health complications. I always wondered if she was just trying to scare people, but I am still to this day very wary of the microwave, and don't stand in front of it or too near it while its on.




A microwave is basically a Faraday cage, and does not let any microwave radiation escape under normal use. When you open the microwave door the radiation does not linger at all.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: trendal]
    #7236808 - 07/29/07 03:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

When you open the microwave door the radiation does not linger at all.



Unless you are my in-laws, whos microwave turns on when the door is open!

Their microwave is broke and turns on when opened.  They dont care.  They stick there hands in there and everything.  I was once eating there and they opened it right in front of my face, so I ducked down to avoid it :lol:

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: My mom's afraid of the microwave [Re: o9o]
    #7238413 - 07/29/07 10:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

o9o said:
Your at least 70% water. When you microwave water it loosens the molecular structure and becomes mutated. So when you eat or drink things that have been microwaved you are putting mutated water molecules in you body. Which can make you lethargic and more prone to diseases and cancer.

Microwave bad. Fire good. :dwarf:




There is no such thing as a mutated water molecule.  The only way a non-charged water solution can exist is as normal water- well, perhaps ozone, but this is quite reactive and would not survive long.  Normal water has a small amount of hydroxide and hydronium ions, including the stuff in your body.  Microwaves would have minimal, and inconsequential, effects on these ion's concentrations- almost completely as a result of the heat generated, not the radiation.

I see no difference in microwave or regular cooking.

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