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Offlinelolwhut
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I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher
    #7232441 - 07/27/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

So my roommate decided that he wanted to convince me to be a Christian today (he comes from a family of missionaries) and he tried to talk to me about Jesus and why I should believe in him. Personally, I'm a militant atheist and he knows it because I talk to him and my other roommate about how pointless it is to believe in a god that you only believe in cause your parents brainwashed you into it and your surrounding community is a member of it. So today, he decides to call his preacher grandfather who has been preaching for 30 years.

We start off the conversation with the fact that if you believe in Jesus at least you will have a chance in going to heaven (pascals wager). I responded with the fact that the notion he presented wasn't true. The only reason people are Christians is because their family are Christians and people from around the world are victim to what they are taught, not a true religion. He then stated that I was a "lost soul" because I was too educated in the religions of the world. I responded with, "How can you be too educated, ignorance is not the path to spiritual enlightenment." He then stated that my mind was polluted and that It would be hard to find Christianity. I stated , "Its because I am too smart that I wont find Christianity."

We continued to go back and forth all along the array of religion when the final key point was reached. He said, "I felt the holy spirit in my life, I was gambling, fighting, drinking, fucking whores and one day I felt the love of the holy spirit and I knew Christianity was the true path." I called bullshit. I said, "You didn't find Christianity and you didn't find the holy spirit. You simply had a spiritual experience that was beyond your understanding and since the only thing you had ever experienced in your life was Christianity you blamed it on that. If you were raised in Iran you would have blamed Mohammad, if you were raised in India you would have blamed Vishnu, if you were raised in china you would have blamed Buddha." To this, he was quite, then laughed and said, "you just haven't experienced spirituality yet son." I then began to laugh and said, "You know how I attain spirituality, I do it with DRUGS. Not any drug that damages me, I do mushrooms and they let me look into my soul and find what i need to fix, thats my spirituality and if you want to challenge me to find Christ I challenge you to try mushrooms and look deep inside your soul and there you will find spirituality." He said to each his own and had nothing else to say, I proved him wrong on every point and he is a preacher of Christian doctrine for over 30 years. I feel great, because I was able to prove a man wrong in this area, even though he will brush it off cause it conflicts with his beliefs, I feel that now, I can defend my beliefs. That is all.

and fuck firefox, it makes you capitalize Christianity but not atheism


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232448 - 07/27/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

you didn't prove him wrong. that's not something that you can prove right or wrong. he still has his views, and you still have yours.


--------------------

Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: nightkrawler]
    #7232449 - 07/27/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nightkrawler said:
you didn't prove him wrong. that's not something that you can prove right or wrong. he still has his views, and you still have yours.




I feel i did in the fact that the only reason he felt the holy spirit was because that was the only thing he could relate to. but in the end you are correct.


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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232454 - 07/27/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

ANYTHING is possible when you die. whether it be, god, gods, reincarnation, black people, science, nothing and by nothing I mean seriously nothing like where you don't exist anymore. Death could be the worst thing that happens to you, or it can be the best thing to ever happen to you.

I keep my mind open to anything that can happen when you die. Because anything really is possible.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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OfflineStreetFreak
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232463 - 07/27/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Good job.. I believe in God, but I don't choose to remain ignorant out of fear.

Can I ask you why you don't believe in a God? Also you said that you attain spirituality with drugs, but don't believe in any God.. so whats the basis for your spirituality you seem to have attained?


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Invisibletiny_rabid_birds
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232473 - 07/28/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

you seem like the kind of athiest that annoys me as much as hardcore christians. someone so convinced that his way is the right way and that anyone with a different opinion is either blind or stupid. or maybe it's just smug arrogance i'm getting a whiff of.

regardless, for your sake and for the sake of those who stand to be in your presence, i hope you're not that kind of person.


--------------------


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: StreetFreak]
    #7232498 - 07/28/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
ANYTHING is possible when you die. whether it be, god, gods, reincarnation, black people, science, nothing and by nothing I mean seriously nothing like where you don't exist anymore. Death could be the worst thing that happens to you, or it can be the best thing to ever happen to you.

I keep my mind open to anything that can happen when you die. Because anything really is possible.




yes, however, i would rather live my life happily and whatever happens when you die happens, no reason to hypothesis something you have not a fucking clue about.

Quote:

StreetFreak said:
Good job.. I believe in God, but I don't choose to remain ignorant out of fear.

Can I ask you why you don't believe in a God? Also you said that you attain spirituality with drugs, but don't believe in any God.. so whats the basis for your spirituality you seem to have attained?




I dont believe in god because religion is the biggest waste of time in the world. The only way a recognition of god can really be achieved is through religion because they actually claim to have semi-proof of his existance. Otherwise no god has shown himself to me so I dont believe.

Spirituality doesnt have to be with a god, my spirituality is attained through introspection and understanding human beings at the very core. Realizing that we can be the most lovable creatures and horrible uncaring monsters at the same time.


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #7232499 - 07/28/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
you seem like the kind of athiest that annoys me as much as hardcore christians. someone so convinced that his way is the right way and that anyone with a different opinion is either blind or stupid. or maybe it's just smug arrogance i'm getting a whiff of.

regardless, for your sake and for the sake of those who stand to be in your presence, i hope you're not that kind of person.




nah, dude tried to convert me, so i unleashed the beast


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Invisiblefearfect

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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #7232508 - 07/28/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i don't know why christians think pascal's wager is such a great argument. i've heard it brought up all the time too. when i argue with well learned christians the argument always ends up with this element of "faith". i manage to always come to an agreement with them that the christian god can not be completely proven to be real but that there is at least some part of you that must come to believe without evidence; which in my mind is insane and ridiculous.


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: fearfect]
    #7232520 - 07/28/07 12:20 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
i don't know why christians think pascal's wager is such a great argument. i've heard it brought up all the time too. when i argue with well learned christians the argument always ends up with this element of "faith". i manage to always come to an agreement with them that the christian god can not be completely proven to be real but that there is at least some part of you that must come to believe without evidence; which in my mind is insane and ridiculous.




anyways, pascals wager only works when you have one definant religion, not multiple religions with same probability of existance (in my opinion 0 chance)


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OfflineTurntableJunky
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232539 - 07/28/07 12:27 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: you should've told him to go fuck himself.


--------------------


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OfflineStreetFreak
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: StreetFreak]
    #7232549 - 07/28/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I get very tired of the "I choose to remain ignorant because I'm scared to ask myself questions" attitude also, Christian or not, but don't let a few useful idiots with bad wording keep you from seeing a bigger picture.

  I used to think like you, and then I realized Christianity isn't about what brainwashed church goers try to force down your throat today in the world. Psychedelics helped me with this. I thought more about how Jesus allegedly was.. his actions and persona, and then I thought about how earth would be if everyone followed in his footsteps. I like to think we would be living in a radically different place today. One where people are helped when they make a bad decision.. not punished. And one where people are free to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else without persecution. This crystal clear realization changed me long ago, and is still changing me today. Treating people good.. even those who have hurt me, makes me feel happier for some reason.. maybe it's like some kind of sick pleasure for being good and nice to people who are the opposite. I really don't know, but for some reason it does. Maybe I create less bad energy to dish out on people so therefore it doesn't bog me down as much.. who the fuck really knows :smile:

  Heres a scenario: Lets say that Jesus was just a regular joe who wanted to do good and change the world. Not the son of God and a virgin mother. So he goes around and creates a religion and all the bells and whistles to go with it. Was to follow the Christian religion ever the point in the first place? Or was his intent to promote good and moral actions from many people for milleniums to come? Could this be how all religions were created? From people who just wanted more good from their fellow men, but somehow needed a system to promote it?

You may not be able to prove that the Christian God is THE REAL God, but I don't think you can deny the fact that the main theme in Christianity is to do good and what is right. Isn't it great how so many radical Christians are so radically hypocritical? Don't get me wrong though.. I maybe a Christian, but I definitely don't dismiss other plausible scenarios or try to force a lifestyle down someones throat.

You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person.. that is far from what I am saying. I am simply saying that Jesus would be a good role model for many :thumbup:. I know some atheists are good people, but religions do teach. I guess I'm one for knowledge.

  People will believe what they choose to, and this doesn't bother me in the least. But holy shit some of the fucking atheists are just as bad as radical Christians.. or radical muslims.. or w/e.. when it comes to bitching and pushing their shit down others throats. (Not intended towards you OP.) But yeah, I hate to hear bitching and drama from any side :wink:


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232552 - 07/28/07 12:32 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

jesus wrote the bible, christians read the bible.....only a few dozen americans can read this bible.

the books that come off the print press is just entertainment. Hell its not better than a newspaper i feel, every couple years they get a new "updated" version...

i always wonder how jesus finds the time to reincarnate himself every few years to update it


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Invisibleparadox_
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: lolwhut]
    #7232557 - 07/28/07 12:34 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

By trying to convince everyone that there is no god, how are you any better than the preacher?

I'm no more Christian than you are, but I don't judge people just because they choose to believe in something I do not. If followers of Christianity, or any religion for that matter, find happiness in their lives by following the bible and all that, who am I to say they are wrong?

Now I can see you may be a bit peeved that they are trying to force their ways on you, but I doubt your friend put a gun to your head and made you listen. You also typed about how you are always talking to your roommate and your friend about what bullshit religion is and all that, so you are pushing your own beliefs on him as well.


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: paradox_]
    #7232570 - 07/28/07 12:39 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

paradox_ said:
By trying to convince everyone that there is no god, how are you any better than the preacher?

I'm no more Christian than you are, but I don't judge people just because they choose to believe in something I do not. If followers of Christianity, or any religion for that matter, find happiness in their lives by following the bible and all that, who am I to say they are wrong?

Now I can see you may be a bit peeved that they are trying to force their ways on you, but I doubt your friend put a gun to your head and made you listen. You also typed about how you are always talking to your roommate and your friend about what bullshit religion is and all that, so you are pushing your own beliefs on him as well.





nah, i was defending my beliefs from him, also, i love to argue.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: paradox_]
    #7232574 - 07/28/07 12:41 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i think the biggest thing with christians is how they have zero common sense, yet they use really educated words. Most christians in a discussion will either say "because god" "because jesus" "have faith" to anything they havn't a clue about which really irks me.

i dunno its 2 sides to a coin but these are my major pet peaves


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7232603 - 07/28/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
i think the biggest thing with christians is how they have zero common sense, yet they use really educated words. Most christians in a discussion will either say "because god" "because jesus" "have faith" to anything they havn't a clue about which really irks me.

i dunno its 2 sides to a coin but these are my major pet peaves




FAITH IS THE FUNNIEST FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD!! Its like you get bonus points for being an ignorant fuck that doesnt need proof for belief. Seriously, religion rewards you for making yourself stupid.


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Invisiblefearfect

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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7232604 - 07/28/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
jesus wrote the bible, christians read the bible.....only a few dozen americans can read this bible.

the books that come off the print press is just entertainment. Hell its not better than a newspaper i feel, every couple years they get a new "updated" version...

i always wonder how jesus finds the time to reincarnate himself every few years to update it




jesus did not write the bible.

in fact more than half of the bible was already around before jesus even supposedly lived. and then the second half started getting written by many different people starting over one generation after jesus is said to have died.

it would be quite something to have actual text that was written by the ultimate being himself, but i guess he was just too busy.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: fearfect]
    #7232616 - 07/28/07 01:02 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

WTF! i didn't know that!

i swear growing up, everyone i ever talked to heard ect ect...jesus wrote the bible with some other guy can't remember his name.

something about god told jesus to write it....maybe im thinking of a different religion?....theirs so many its crazy

anyways so what did jesus sopposedly do according to christians during his time on earth???

i mean besides dieing for "my" sins


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (07/28/07 01:02 AM)


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Offlinelolwhut
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Re: I dont think i have ever posted in the pub before, so here it goes: My battle with a Preacher [Re: fearfect]
    #7232618 - 07/28/07 01:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
jesus wrote the bible, christians read the bible.....only a few dozen americans can read this bible.

the books that come off the print press is just entertainment. Hell its not better than a newspaper i feel, every couple years they get a new "updated" version...

i always wonder how jesus finds the time to reincarnate himself every few years to update it




jesus did not write the bible.

in fact more than half of the bible was already around before jesus even supposedly lived. and then the second half started getting written by many different people starting over one generation after jesus is said to have died.

it would be quite something to have actual text that was written by the ultimate being himself, but i guess he was just too busy.




meh, new testament was created @ council of worms and other councils like it that decided what the actual christian belief was going to be


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